The TD vulture (1 Viewer)

[3quinox]

Lets throw out an example like ryan matthews. He does all of the work but if its on the goal line the 243 Tolbert punches it in. I know his body shape is completely different and adds that extra muscle to put it through the pylons but ryan matthews has elusive speed and could do the same thing to the outside and maybe even the inside. Will Turner ever start to acknowledge this or will the next coach when Norv get fired think of this?

 

[beaux]

Teams would rather try to pound it in from the one yard line with a big back that runs straight ahead instead of trying to do a sweep and have the potential to lose 3-4 yards.

Plus ego weighs into it as well.

 

[Cawbird]

The shortest distance from point A to point B is a straight line. But instead of the 260lb bowling ball, I miss the days of a Walter Payton dive over the top.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

ptts

Norv Turner doesn't care about your fantasy team.

 

[Joe Summer]

The 1-yard goalline plunge is a higher injury risk. Better to have your disposable fullback do it than your high-priced feature back.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Lets throw out an example like ryan matthews. He does all of the work but if its on the goal line the 243 Tolbert punches it in. I know his body shape is completely different and adds that extra muscle to put it through the pylons but ryan matthews has elusive speed and could do the same thing to the outside and maybe even the inside. Will Turner ever start to acknowledge this or will the next coach when Norv get fired think of this?

It's frustrating as all get out, but it's got solid theory behind it. The dive with a big back has an advantage in that the big back may be able to win the one on one battle with a 240# LB who is filling a gap. A smaller back is more likely to lose that battle and is less likely to be able to bring his wiggle into that compressed pile. And an outside run can more easily result in lost yards.One thing for certain, it has nothing, and shouldn't have IMHO, with rewarding a player. It's about the team winning and if putting the ball into Tolbert's hands from the one increases the team's chances of scoring (and thus winning), then that's what the coach needs to do.Now, you make a valid point that Matthews isn't exactly small and he might be just as good for that one yard run as Tolbert is. But you kinda have to give a coach, even Norv Turner, the benefit of the doubt and assume they know which guy is better in that situation based on practice and film study.

 

[Squintz82]

Lets throw out an example like ryan matthews. He does all of the work but if its on the goal line the 243 Tolbert punches it in. I know his body shape is completely different and adds that extra muscle to put it through the pylons but ryan matthews has elusive speed and could do the same thing to the outside and maybe even the inside. Will Turner ever start to acknowledge this or will the next coach when Norv get fired think of this?

It's frustrating as all get out, but it's got solid theory behind it. The dive with a big back has an advantage in that the big back may be able to win the one on one battle with a 240# LB who is filling a gap. A smaller back is more likely to lose that battle and is less likely to be able to bring his wiggle into that compressed pile. And an outside run can more easily result in lost yards.One thing for certain, it has nothing, and shouldn't have IMHO, with rewarding a player. It's about the team winning and if putting the ball into Tolbert's hands from the one increases the team's chances of scoring (and thus winning), then that's what the coach needs to do.Now, you make a valid point that Matthews isn't exactly small and he might be just as good for that one yard run as Tolbert is. But you kinda have to give a coach, even Norv Turner, the benefit of the doubt and assume they know which guy is better in that situation based on practice and film study.

Good post, but I can rationalize this moreso with a small / light back like Jamaal Charles (when Jones was the vulture). Mathews reminds me a lot of Tomlinson who had a combination of size, strength, and elusiveness. There have also been plenty of examples where Tolbert is actually less effective than Mathews in short yardage situations this season. Look at the end of the game in OT vs. Denver a few weeks ago. As soon as they brought in Tolbert, they lost yardage and ended up missing the FG (when Mathews was explosive all day).I think Mathews' durability comes into play here, however I personally see more of an injury risk between the 20's than at the goal line.Here's an interesting quote from an article that talks about the Denver game and RB situation:

And yet, in the overtime, after Mathews put them down near field goal range at the Denver 32, he mysteriously was relieved in favor of Mike Tolbert, who lost 4 yards trying to go wide. It might have been just enough for Nick Novak to barely miss what would have been a game-winning field goal."I’m calling a play based on personnel on the field," Turner said. "He came out and I don’t know why he came out."If the head coach calling plays doesn’t know, who does? Maybe they didn’t want Mathews to get hurt.Is it really possible that Canepa has no idea that Tolbert plays 75% of the third down plays and 95% of crucial third down plays because of his superior pass protection? It's very standard for this offense to yank Mathews for third down. It turns out that I learned something new from Jay Paris this week:"I don't know why he came out,'' said Turner of Mathews, and if Turner doesn't know, who does?Turner said running backs coach Ollie Wilson handles the substitutions, and well, that's about all the reasoning Turner had.It's fascinating that an assistant coach controls when Mathews and Tolbert go in and out, and that Norv then makes his call subsequent to the RB decision. I always imagined that personnel, formation, and play call was all inside of Norv's beautiful brain. Obviously they are executing a coordinated philosophy, but it seems like there may have been a disconnect between Wilson using the standard formula of Tolbert on third down without knowing or realizing that Norv was going to call a field goal concession run.

It's confusing as to who's decision it actually is to bring in Tolbert at the goal line, but it sounds like either Norv plays dumb, or Ollie Wilson (RB coach) makes the call.http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2011/12/1/2602211/playbook-confidential-chargers-vs-denver-tebows

 

[Tchula]

Matthews has 4 fumbles in 185 attempts, and Tolbert has 1 fumble in 99 attempts, so maybe that plays a factor as well.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The 1-yard goalline plunge is a higher injury risk.

Is it?Not arguing either side of the OP's question here, but I hear this point brought up often and it seems like nothing more than nonsensical, regurgitated groupthink. It's theorycraft that I'm not sure has any basis in reality. Yeah, it makes sense in our mind (more bodies in a smaller space means greater chance of injury), but I'm not sure it actually plays out that way. When was the last time someone got hurt on a goaline carry? I really can't remember one, personally. I would hypothesize that the majority of RB injuries happen at the 2nd level when a RB gets hit after he has accelerated to a higher speed, which of course never happens around the goaline.Does anyone actually have any data on this, or is it just another thing in the long line of examples of "well I guess it makes sense logically, so let's just pretend it's a fact"? In this case, I'm not even sure the "theory logic" checks out.

 

[Joe Summer]

The 1-yard goalline plunge is a higher injury risk.

Is it?

I don't know if there's any scientific evidence one way or the other. But I'll bet that most coaches think there's a higher injury risk of sending a player right up the middle.

 

[faulkfan]

If it makes you feel better, Norv probably won't be the coach making that call next season. It will be a new guy sending Tolbert in there to score the shorties.

 

[Sarnoff]

Teams should go wishbone with the big and little guys both on the field more often.

 

[sspunisher]

I think it's more of a philosophy than anything. Goal line carries are high impact and if you can take those carries off your lead back for an entire season then they really do add up.

 

[Run It Up]

Lets throw out an example like ryan matthews. He does all of the work but if its on the goal line the 243 Tolbert punches it in. I know his body shape is completely different and adds that extra muscle to put it through the pylons but ryan matthews has elusive speed and could do the same thing to the outside and maybe even the inside. Will Turner ever start to acknowledge this or will the next coach when Norv get fired think of this?

Ignoring one key thing in this summary. Mike Tolbert is a better RB than Ryan Mathews.

 

[solorca]

The shortest distance from point A to point B is a straight line. But instead of the 260lb bowling ball, I miss the days of a Walter Payton dive over the top.

He's still a big guy, but Cam Newton still does that about twice a game

 

[Squintz82]

Lets throw out an example like ryan matthews. He does all of the work but if its on the goal line the 243 Tolbert punches it in. I know his body shape is completely different and adds that extra muscle to put it through the pylons but ryan matthews has elusive speed and could do the same thing to the outside and maybe even the inside. Will Turner ever start to acknowledge this or will the next coach when Norv get fired think of this?

Ignoring one key thing in this summary. Mike Tolbert is a better RB than Ryan Mathews.

Hilarious 10/10

 

[Sir Chadwick]

The TD Vulture is basically the only reason I start Brandon Jacobs. He's pretty good and running into walls and getting a yard or two.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The shortest distance from point A to point B is a straight line. But instead of the 260lb bowling ball, I miss the days of a Walter Payton dive over the top.

Billy Sims was also good at this.