The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)

[BigSteelThrill]

IRONY

Except that despite all your right wing double-speak everyone knows its the Rs shutting it down.

 

[Fennis]

IRONY

shut's down?

 

[[icon]]

IRONY

Except that despite all your right wing double-speak everyone knows its the Rs shutting it down.

If only some of you knew how to read...

Speaking of... has your ELITE nightclub been shut down as a result of this?

:wrysmile:

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

If Obama and the Dems hold firm they are going to boss this thing when it's over. Nothing plays better than standing up to a bully and winning.

By refusing to negotiate over a ransom Obama is showing stength and demonstrating how weak Boehner really is. And there's nothing the Republicans can do that wins the confrontation now unless the Dems fold.

Weak + unable to respond to an 'attack' is a bad combo to try and overcome. John Marshall at TPM termed this ##### Slap Politics:

Stuff like the Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry and McCain's Celeb/P Diddy assault on Obama aren't really about the attacks themselves. In themselves, they're often too cartoonish to be believed in any literal sense. What they're about is smacking the other guy around and making him take it. There's no better way to demonstrate someone's lack of toughness or strength than to attack them and show they are either unwilling or unable to defend themselves -- thus the rough slang I used above. That not only makes the other guy look weak. It also transforms him into an object of contempt, which together are politically fatal. It's this meta-message of weakness that resonates far beyond the literal claims. And it's this that Democrats so often seem to miss -- explaining the factual inaccuracies of the claims, demanding that the attacks stop, all the while reinforcing the intended message of the attacks in the first place.

Obama here doesn't even have to do anything underhanded or overtly attack much to get to this place either -- he just has to say no until the cards are shown. Republicans are mostly doing the damage to themselves by trying to extort concessions via hostage taking.

And Obama will enter the next round of negotiations over the larger budget issues from a stronger position than previously, while the Republicans will be weaker -- especially the right wing of the party.

Perversely the end result of all this could be good -- GOP moderates might end up working with Dems and accepting Obama's entitlement reforms in exchange for new revenues as a result. I wouldn't count on that, but it's possible.

 

[[icon]]

IRONY

shut's down?

Internet Memes aren't exactly known for perfect grammar

 

[Fennis]

This thread really makes me wonder if monarchy wasnt so bad after all.

welcome our sign up sheet is on the right.

 

[quickhands]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

I am fed up with both sides and the people who are only fed up with the other side.

In order for us to believe that you're not one of the crazy ones, you need to put aside whatever you feel about the Dems and Obama and spend your time only attacking the Tea Party until this is over. So long as you indulge in this "I blame both sides" crap, you're either hiding the fact that you admire the Tea Party, or you're giving them cover because you can't tolerate the fact that the liberals might be right in this instance (which could be even worse.)

You forget that you gave them cover through all of 2012. You are Tea Party-lite, Timsquishole.

tim gave cover to the tea party? man you are a KooK. and a dim homo phobe

 

[BigSteelThrill]

ELITE nightclub been shut down as a result of this?

That place is rockin!

Pulling so much tail and gaining top end business accounts!

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So the Republicans want to choose which parts of the Govt should be open and are crying that the Dems want all if the Govt open?

And yet the Dems are to blame? How about the house put it to a vote and let the chips fall. If it goes down then we will know that the Dems need to offer something, but if it passes then te agovt is open and everyone wins!

Except for the future generations who are being left with this huge albatross of endless debt around their necks. Big win for them.

Yeah... I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to not speak for my generation. There's nothing 'future' about the debt the GOP put on young people starting in 2000/2001 and the Dems were forced to expand in the resulting economic collapse. We're living the reality right now. Working un-paid internships, part-time jobs, all without basic benefits.

It's pretty clear that we're (as a generation) not on board with the Tea Party's ideas. Don't throw up this TP temper tantrum as some idyllic stand for the future of our country.

Exactly! He his off by 20 years. Starve the beast!

REAGAN: Miss Quinn, I don't have to. I've done it. ....Now, John's been in the Congress for 20 years. And John tells us that first, we've got to reduce spending before we can reduce taxes. Well, if you've got a kid that's extravagant, you can lecture him all you want to about his extravagance. Or you can cut his allowance and achieve the same end much quicker. But Government has never reduced Government does not tax to get the money it needs. Government always needs the money it gets. ... I believe the budget can be balanced by 1982 or 1983, ...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Guess you missed the point. If Obama thought that it was so bad to raise the debt ceiling then, why does he want to raise it even more now?


Why not cut spending? This may shock you, but the govt. wastes a lot of $$$$$.

Why does no person demanding the budget be balanced ever advocate raising taxes? Its a pretty crucial part of the math.

It is also a crucial part of the strategy to cut spending.

 

[timschochet]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

I am fed up with both sides and the people who are only fed up with the other side.

In order for us to believe that you're not one of the crazy ones, you need to put aside whatever you feel about the Dems and Obama and spend your time only attacking the Tea Party until this is over. So long as you indulge in this "I blame both sides" crap, you're either hiding the fact that you admire the Tea Party, or you're giving them cover because you can't tolerate the fact that the liberals might be right in this instance (which could be even worse.)

You forget that you gave them cover through all of 2012. You are Tea Party-lite, Timsquishole.

tim gave cover to the tea party? man you are a KooK. and a dim homo phobe

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.

But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

 

[Jim11]

Obama the hypocrite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydZTHPkOnvE

By all means let's destroy the world economy at worst or further embolden an Imperial presidency at best because ofa campaign speech 5 years ago. Hell let's hold out for a huge deal because they did it with Missouri 180 years ago to too. Great way to run things.God I hate this GOP right now.

Guess you missed the point. If Obama thought that it was so bad to raise the debt ceiling then, why does he want to raise it even more now?

Why not cut spending? This may shock you, but the govt. wastes a lot of $$$$$.

Why does no person demanding the budget be balanced ever advocate raising taxes? Its a pretty crucial part of the math.

First of all, taxes are high enough as it is. Secondly, if you reduce spending, you can balance the budget without raising taxes.

What do you do with your own spending; just keep spending more & more and borrow indefinitely...or do you live within your means?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.

But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

The establishment hasn't been in charge of the GOP since at least the early '90s. The grass roots movement that gained foot holds in every district wasn't built by the establishment. When things feel apart for those crazies in 2005 they found a new banner in the fall of 2008.

 

[timschochet]

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.

But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

The establishment hasn't been in charge of the GOP since at least the early '90s. The grass roots movement that gained foot holds in every district wasn't built by the establishment. When things feel apart for those crazies in 2005 they found a new banner in the fall of 2008.

It's been a struggle since that time (and actually,.ever since Nixon established the infamous Southern Strategy. But the key change in 2008 came about when the grass roots elements became interested in economics, rather than the social issues that had always possessed them. Ever since that point, the war has been on.

 

[quickhands]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

I am fed up with both sides and the people who are only fed up with the other side.

In order for us to believe that you're not one of the crazy ones, you need to put aside whatever you feel about the Dems and Obama and spend your time only attacking the Tea Party until this is over. So long as you indulge in this "I blame both sides" crap, you're either hiding the fact that you admire the Tea Party, or you're giving them cover because you can't tolerate the fact that the liberals might be right in this instance (which could be even worse.)

You forget that you gave them cover through all of 2012. You are Tea Party-lite, Timsquishole.

tim gave cover to the tea party? man you are a KooK. and a dim homo phobe

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

yea I was there. but I remember u stomping around, pissing and moaning about the tea party (which your brother supports) as much as you do today.

 

[dparker713]

Obama the hypocrite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydZTHPkOnvE

By all means let's destroy the world economy at worst or further embolden an Imperial presidency at best because ofa campaign speech 5 years ago. Hell let's hold out for a huge deal because they did it with Missouri 180 years ago to too. Great way to run things.God I hate this GOP right now.

Guess you missed the point. If Obama thought that it was so bad to raise the debt ceiling then, why does he want to raise it even more now?

Why not cut spending? This may shock you, but the govt. wastes a lot of $$$$$.

Why does no person demanding the budget be balanced ever advocate raising taxes? Its a pretty crucial part of the math.

First of all, taxes are high enough as it is. Secondly, if you reduce spending, you can balance the budget without raising taxes.

What do you do with your own spending; just keep spending more & more and borrow indefinitely...or do you live within your means?

What determines that taxes are high enough? And you can't come up with enough reasonable cuts to balance the budget. Sure, before 2008 it was maybe possible, but closing the current gap without increased revenue from growth and/or increased taxes is a pipe dream.

As for my own spending, I either stop eating out and blowing money in bars or I work more hours and get more money, or both. I could also look for a better paying job. Of course, if I were the federal government I'd also have the option of borrowing more at an extremely favorable rate continuously for the foreseeable future.

 

[cstu]

I.M.F. Cuts Forecasts for Global Expansion, and Warns U.S. on Its Stalemate

By ANNIE LOWREY

Published: October 8, 2013

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WASHINGTON — Emerging economies have cooled off. Europe remains in the doldrums. The United States is facing fiscal uncertainty, and its powerful central bank is contemplating easing its extraordinary stimulus efforts, with potentially global ramifications.

Related

European Officials Consulted Business Leaders on Trade Pact (October 9, 2013)

As a result, global growth is in “low gear,” the International Monetary Fund said in its latest economic forecasts, released Tuesday as the world’s central bankers and finance ministers gathered here for the fund’s annual meetings.

The I.M.F., the Washington-based lending institution, cut its forecasts for global growth, as it has done in nine of its last 10 economic updates. It now expects the world economy to increase by about 2.9 percent in 2013 and 3.6 percent in 2014. That is down from 5.4 percent in 2007, before the global recession.

More risks remain, like “prolonged sluggish growth,” which the monetary fund has indicated could translate into lower living standards and higher rates of joblessness for hundreds of millions around the world. “Quantitative indicators point to no major change to risks over the near term,” the fund said. “The qualitative assessment is that uncertainty has increased again.”

Over all, developed economies have strengthened whereas emerging economies have weakened, the fund said. The private sector in the United States has posted better numbers, and some European countries have stopped contracting, though growth across the Continent remains weak.

“Growth is looking up, financial stability is returning and fiscal accounts are looking healthier,” Christine Lagarde, the fund’s managing director, said of developed economies at a speech this month in Washington. “Nowhere is this clearer than the United States. We see it all around us,” she said, citing improvements in housing and household finances.

Yet growth in those wealthier countries remains anemic — just 1.6 percent in the United States and 1.4 percent in Britain, with a 0.4 percent contraction in the euro area. Financial problems and recessions in Europe continue to weigh down the rest of the world, the fund said.

In Washington, budgetary turmoil has introduced new strains, including the partial government shutdown and fears that the United States might default on its debt. If the Federal Reserve pulls back, or tapers, its major bond-buying program, the global economy may also be at risk.

“U.S. monetary policy is reaching a turning point, and this has led to an unexpectedly large increase in long-term yields in the United States and many other economies,” the fund said. “This change could pose risks for emerging market economies, where activity is slowing and asset quality weakening.”

It is against the backdrop of a deadlocked Congress and shut-down federal government that the world’s finance ministers and central bankers are gathering in Washington this week. The stalemate has already led to the biggest drop in consumer confidence since Lehman Brothers collapsed, according to some measures.

Economists have warned that the hit to growth is accumulating with every day that the shutdown drags on, putting Washington’s fiscal and financial woes at the center of the I.M.F. and World Bank talks, with foreign officials pleading with the superpower to put its house in order — for the good of the global recovery.

“The government shutdown is bad enough, but failure to raise the debt ceiling would be far worse, and could very seriously damage not only the U.S. economy, but the entire global economy,” Ms. Lagarde said in the Washington speech. “It is mission-critical that this be resolved as soon as possible.”

In its outlook Tuesday, the fund’s economists said Japan and China were facing major economic hurdles. The I.M.F. sees the Japanese economy expanding about 2 percent this year and 1.2 percent next year. The country’s fiscal and monetary stimulus efforts have helped jolt the economy out of deflation, but any tightening might lead to slower growth next year, the fund said.

The fund now expects China to expand about 7.6 percent this year, 0.2 percentage point lower than the estimate in July. The fund has urged the Chinese government to hasten its attempts to shift from an investment- and exports-reliant economy to a more balanced one, with increased domestic consumption. And it has warned that China’s downshift might affect other countries, “notably the commodity exporters among the emerging market and developing economies.”

The fund’s economists cut their estimates of growth among developing Asian economies by 0.6 percentage point for this year and 0.5 percentage point for next year, with Russia and India getting significant downgrades.

Economists have warned that the end of easy money might reveal “Bernanke bubbles” that could burst as lending rates rise and currency markets fluctuate.

Separately, the World Bank — the International Monetary Fund’s sister institution, which is holding its annual meetings jointly with the fund — has released its World Development Report, focusing on risk management for low-income and developing countries.

The bank has warned that poorer countries need to have strong balance sheets and public policies to contend with disasters, whether from financial crises emanating from the United States or from natural disasters hitting at home.

The World Bank has announced a sweeping reorganization to help achieve its goals of inclusive growth and the eradication of extreme poverty — and to assert its relevance as emerging economies continue to be the engine of global growth. “Right now is the time for all the developing countries to think hard about the reforms they need to make to get to this path,” Dr. Jim Yong Kim, the bank’s president, said in an interview.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

I am fed up with both sides and the people who are only fed up with the other side.

In order for us to believe that you're not one of the crazy ones, you need to put aside whatever you feel about the Dems and Obama and spend your time only attacking the Tea Party until this is over. So long as you indulge in this "I blame both sides" crap, you're either hiding the fact that you admire the Tea Party, or you're giving them cover because you can't tolerate the fact that the liberals might be right in this instance (which could be even worse.)

You forget that you gave them cover through all of 2012. You are Tea Party-lite, Timsquishole.

tim gave cover to the tea party? man you are a KooK. and a dim homo phobe

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.

But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

I have to admit, you were right about this one. I was hopeful that another GOP defeat would cause the adults to take over, but that didn't happen.

 

[rascal]

Okay, Coburn is a smart guy. But WTF is he talking about?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/tom-coburn-default-debt-ceiling-97920.html

 

[timschochet]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

I am fed up with both sides and the people who are only fed up with the other side.

In order for us to believe that you're not one of the crazy ones, you need to put aside whatever you feel about the Dems and Obama and spend your time only attacking the Tea Party until this is over. So long as you indulge in this "I blame both sides" crap, you're either hiding the fact that you admire the Tea Party, or you're giving them cover because you can't tolerate the fact that the liberals might be right in this instance (which could be even worse.)

You forget that you gave them cover through all of 2012. You are Tea Party-lite, Timsquishole.

tim gave cover to the tea party? man you are a KooK. and a dim homo phobe

I voted for Romney, and in his polarized world of us vs. them, it's the same thing.

But I supported Romney in part because I wanted the Republican establishment to stay in charge. I was afraid of this very outcome. I warned at the time that one possible result of a Romney defeat would be a Tea Party takeover of the GOP. Now we're seeing it happen.

I have to admit, you were right about this one. I was hopeful that another GOP defeat would cause the adults to take over, but that didn't happen.

Thanks for the acknowledgment, but frankly I wish I had been wrong as hell.

 

[Mario Kart]

Has Reid given up this charade yet?

 

[Slapdash]

Who do y'all think are the adults in the GOP?

 

[timschochet]

Okay, Coburn is a smart guy. But WTF is he talking about?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/tom-coburn-default-debt-ceiling-97920.html

It's the same argument that Tommyboy made in the other thread. You're hearing it more and more from conservatives. What they're focusing on is the fact that the cost to service the debt is 35 billion. The overall amount we take in a month is 230 billion. So we won't default on the debt- probably.

But what makes this argument so insipid is that these guys know that the overall amount we spend each month is 300 billion. So even if we decide to service the debt, we're still 70 billion short, and that means the US defaults on it's obligations to someone. Probably to a ton of people, like Social Security recepients and defense contractors. The result WILL be an economic panic.

What Coburn and others are arguing is extremely dangerous. The stock market fell by 140 points already today, simply because we're getting closer and closer to October 17 and there is no resolution. Next week I imagine it will get worse.

 

[timschochet]

Who do y'all think are the adults in the GOP?

Peter King. John McCain. On talk radio, Michael Medved.

 

[Fennis]

Who do y'all think are the adults in the GOP?

Peter King. John McCain. On talk radio, Michael Medved.

schtick?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Who do y'all think are the adults in the GOP?

Romney-backers. In addition, Marco Rubio was at one point a helpful voice with regards to immigration. I also doubt that folks like Jindahl or Christie would support this idiotic shutdown. (Not sure if either has chimed in or not).

 

[timschochet]

Who do y'all think are the adults in the GOP?

Peter King. John McCain. On talk radio, Michael Medved.

schtick?

Right now anyone who argues against the Tea Party and the shutdown is an adult. No shtick.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Republicans are arguing that our commitment to pay interest to bond holders trumps all the other commitments government has made.

It's just another way of saying... we want government to do what we want it to do, but not the things we don't want it to do.

Leaving aside that it's probably not bureaucratically feasible, Obama has already said 'prioritization' isn't going to happen. Though no one has said exactly what will happen if we go over the edge.

Which we won't. Boehner has already said as much and despite outward appearances a large chunk of the GOP is only beholden to crazy people -- they aren't actually crazy themselves.

 

[sporthenry]

Republicans are arguing that our commitment to pay interest to bond holders trumps all the other commitments government has made.

It's just another way of saying... we want government to do what we want it to do, but not the things we don't want it to do.

Leaving aside that it's probably not bureaucratically feasible, Obama has already said 'prioritization' isn't going to happen. Though no one has said exactly what will happen if we go over the edge.

Which we won't. Boehner has already said as much and despite outward appearances a large chunk of the GOP is only beholden to crazy people -- they aren't actually crazy themselves.

Not to mention, just doing prioritization would be an extreme form of austerity which would shock the system. I'm sure some here would champion austerity ignoring the impact on the economy. While the debt is an issue, growing the economy has to be the #1 concern. Growing the economy will help handle the debt and now would be a terrible time to implement austerity measures.

 

[timschochet]

Republicans are arguing that our commitment to pay interest to bond holders trumps all the other commitments government has made.

It's just another way of saying... we want government to do what we want it to do, but not the things we don't want it to do.

Leaving aside that it's probably not bureaucratically feasible, Obama has already said 'prioritization' isn't going to happen. Though no one has said exactly what will happen if we go over the edge.

Which we won't. Boehner has already said as much and despite outward appearances a large chunk of the GOP is only beholden to crazy people -- they aren't actually crazy themselves.

Damn. I really hope you're right. I think you are, but the rhetoric lately is beginning to make me wonder just a little bit...

 

[[icon]]

ELITE nightclub been shut down as a result of this?

That place is rockin!

Pulling so much tail and gaining top end business accounts!

It's fresno, guy. Settle down. There's no such thing as hot tail or top end business accounts.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

ELITE nightclub been shut down as a result of this?

That place is rockin!

Pulling so much tail and gaining top end business accounts!

It's fresno, guy. Settle down. There's no such thing as hot tail or top end business accounts.

Dont be such a hater [icon]. You so jelly.

 

[3C's]

skipped over the last 5 pages. anything happen in here since my last visit this morning or is it still all

 

[Statorama]

Perversely the end result of all this could be good -- GOP moderates might end up working with Dems and accepting Obama's entitlement reforms in exchange for new revenues as a result. I wouldn't count on that, but it's possible.

Wait a minute. So not only do you think that Obama and the Democrats don't have to negotiate, you feel like the Republicans should give something in ADDITION to signing off on the CR? Dude.

 

[Aerial Assault]

skipped over the last 5 pages. anything happen in here since my last visit this morning or is it still all

Nope, still just garbage.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Perversely the end result of all this could be good -- GOP moderates might end up working with Dems and accepting Obama's entitlement reforms in exchange for new revenues as a result. I wouldn't count on that, but it's possible.

Wait a minute. So not only do you think that Obama and the Democrats don't have to negotiate, you feel like the Republicans should give something in ADDITION to signing off on the CR? Dude.

As previously pointed out...the actual debt/payment amount of this is a Republican choice.

The Dems agreed to that via negotiations. That's a rather large concession.

 

[Statorama]

The people that voted in a Republican majority to Congress aren't going to abandon them because of this.

They were elected to rein in the out of control spending and fight the economic nuclear bomb called Obamacare.

Doing what their constituents voted for them to do.

Now if they cave and give in on the CR negotiations with nothing of consequence to show for it, they might lose some voters.

 

[eurotrashman]

True or False

17 active military members have died since the government shutdown and their loved ones can't receive any death benefits because of the shutdown.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

Nah, they get bullied.

Yup, they get called RINO and other ostracizing terms. Really self-defeating because the implication is unless you buy in to the entire platform, don't bother joining, and that has included the wacko Christian conservatives for the last 15-20 years. So good luck in the party if you're fiscally conservative and socially moderate, or gasp even socially liberal.

 

[rolyaTy]

I'm thinking of telling the credit card company that I'm simply not going to pay their proposed bills. Sure, I bought the stuff an ran up a tab, but they're the ones not coming to the negotiating table. I'm willing to work with them to decide which of the items I bought I don't want to pay for, but they're completely unwilling to work with me. They're the problem.

Tea Partying it up in here...

 

[Mario Kart]

True or False

17 active military members have died since the government shutdown and their loved ones can't receive any death benefits because of the shutdown.

From what I heard, your statement is true. Who to blame though? Obama shut this "program" down to not give federal funds to it but there is a private foundation that is covering it, I heard.

 

[eurotrashman]

True or False

17 active military members have died since the government shutdown and their loved ones can't receive any death benefits because of the shutdown.

From what I heard, your statement is true. Who to blame though? Obama shut this "program" down to not give federal funds to it but there is a private foundation that is covering it, I heard.

Obama shut it down?

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

This has been largely about Republican representatives accumulating "de-fund Obamacare" votes for the 2014 elections. They need to be able to run ads in their districts that say "Vote for Jeff Flake, he voted to defund Obamacare 14 times while in office" and other such red meat for the base. They have to be able to say they did everything they could, and that's what we've got now. On October 16 or 17, there will be a CR to fund the government and an approval to raise the debt ceiling with an attached bill that favors some small portion of the Republican agenda unrelated to Obamacare. Tea Partiers will claim victory, but the reality is it won't have accomplished much other than to establish a voting record to run on for re-election for these hard core Republican districts. That, and to make us look, and actually be, dysfunctional as a civilized government. Pathetic leadership all around, really.

 

[Aerial Assault]

True or False

17 active military members have died since the government shutdown and their loved ones can't receive any death benefits because of the shutdown.

From what I heard, your statement is true. Who to blame though? Obama shut this "program" down to not give federal funds to it but there is a private foundation that is covering it, I heard.

Where is (the late) Al Haig to tell us to read our Constitutions?

 

[timschochet]

True or False

17 active military members have died since the government shutdown and their loved ones can't receive any death benefits because of the shutdown.

From what I heard, your statement is true. Who to blame though? Obama shut this "program" down to not give federal funds to it but there is a private foundation that is covering it, I heard.

?? When did Obama become a member of the Tea Party?

 

[Statorama]

I miss non-insane Republicans. I really do.

They're still around - several posting in this thread even. At some point they have to get fed up with the radicals, don't they?

Nah, they get bullied.

Yup, they get called RINO and other ostracizing terms. Really self-defeating because the implication is unless you buy in to the entire platform, don't bother joining, and that has included the wacko Christian conservatives for the last 15-20 years. So good luck in the party if you're fiscally conservative and socially moderate, or gasp even socially liberal.

Don't act like the same thing doesn't happen across the aisle. Democrats voted lock-step for Obamacare even though they knew it would cost some of them their jobs due to it's massive unpopularity. The only time one of them crosses the aisle is when Reid gives one of them in a swing district permission to throw a meaningless vote the Republicans way.

 

[timschochet]

Perversely the end result of all this could be good -- GOP moderates might end up working with Dems and accepting Obama's entitlement reforms in exchange for new revenues as a result. I wouldn't count on that, but it's possible.

Wait a minute. So not only do you think that Obama and the Democrats don't have to negotiate, you feel like the Republicans should give something in ADDITION to signing off on the CR? Dude.

Doesn't the CR as it currently stands represent a big concession to Republicans?

 

[Statorama]

This has been largely about Republican representatives accumulating "de-fund Obamacare" votes for the 2014 elections. They need to be able to run ads in their districts that say "Vote for Jeff Flake, he voted to defund Obamacare 14 times while in office" and other such red meat for the base. They have to be able to say they did everything they could, and that's what we've got now. On October 16 or 17, there will be a CR to fund the government and an approval to raise the debt ceiling with an attached bill that favors some small portion of the Republican agenda unrelated to Obamacare. Tea Partiers will claim victory, but the reality is it won't have accomplished much other than to establish a voting record to run on for re-election for these hard core Republican districts. That, and to make us look, and actually be, dysfunctional as a civilized government. Pathetic leadership all around, really.

This entire facade, from both sides of the aisle, is about getting re-elected. It has nothing at all to do with anything we're discussing here.

It is fun to chat with you guys about it though!

 

[Statorama]

Perversely the end result of all this could be good -- GOP moderates might end up working with Dems and accepting Obama's entitlement reforms in exchange for new revenues as a result. I wouldn't count on that, but it's possible.

Wait a minute. So not only do you think that Obama and the Democrats don't have to negotiate, you feel like the Republicans should give something in ADDITION to signing off on the CR? Dude.

Doesn't the CR as it currently stands represent a big concession to Republicans?

Absolutely not. As long as the Democrats ignore the budget process, we're going to go through this struggle with every CR.

 

[timschochet]

This has been largely about Republican representatives accumulating "de-fund Obamacare" votes for the 2014 elections. They need to be able to run ads in their districts that say "Vote for Jeff Flake, he voted to defund Obamacare 14 times while in office" and other such red meat for the base. They have to be able to say they did everything they could, and that's what we've got now. On October 16 or 17, there will be a CR to fund the government and an approval to raise the debt ceiling with an attached bill that favors some small portion of the Republican agenda unrelated to Obamacare. Tea Partiers will claim victory, but the reality is it won't have accomplished much other than to establish a voting record to run on for re-election for these hard core Republican districts. That, and to make us look, and actually be, dysfunctional as a civilized government. Pathetic leadership all around, really.

This entire facade, from both sides of the aisle, is about getting re-elected. It has nothing at all to do with anything we're discussing here.

It is fun to chat with you guys about it though!

Again, I disagree. Certainly Boehner and many Democrats are looking at everything from a standpoint of election- that's politics, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

But Obama is obviously not worried about re-election. Obamacare is his legacy. So, for that matter, would be an economic collapse if that happened. And I truly don't believe the Tea Party really gives a crap about re-election either. They believe that this is the time to confront Obama.