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The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

As usual, Fareed Zakaria is the voice of reason:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-shutdown-stems-from-gops-breakdown/2013/10/10/36de8fe0-31b9-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

In trying to explain how Washington got into its current mess, some have focused on ideology. Pundits and politicians note that the country has become more polarized, as have the political parties, particularly the GOP. That diagnosis is accurate, but another distinctive cause of today’s crisis might have even more long-lasting effects: the collapse of authority, especially within the Republican Party, which means threats and crises might be the new normal for American politics.

On the surface, the behavior of Republicans today looks a lot like that in 1995 and 1996, when the party took a strong, ideologically oriented position, stood its ground and shut down the government. But that movement was inspired, shaped and directed by House Speaker Newt Gingrich from start to finish. Speaker John Boehner, by contrast, is following rather than leading. In the 1990s, the crisis proved easier to resolve because Gingrich had the power to speak for his side. Boehner, by contrast, worries that, were he to make a deal, he would lose his job. And he is right to be worried: Tea party members repeatedly warn Boehner not to cut a deal on Obamacare, the budget or immigration.

What’s happening today is quite unlike the “Contract With America” movement of the 1990s. The tea party is a grass-roots movement of people deeply dissatisfied with the United States’ social, cultural and economic evolution over several decades. It’s crucial to understand that they blame both parties for this degeneration. In a recent Gallup survey, an astounding 43 percent of tea party activists had an unfavorable view of the Republican Party; only 55 percent had a favorable view. They see themselves as insurgents within the GOP, not loyal members. The breakdown of party discipline coupled with the rise of an extreme ideology are the twin forces propelling the current crisis.

This explains why the Republican Party has seemed so unresponsive to its traditional power bases, such as big business. Part of the problem is that businesses have been slow to recognize just how extreme the tea party is. (They remain stuck in an older narrative, in which their great fear is Democrats with ties to unions.) But even if big business got its act together, it’s not clear that the radicals in the House of Representatives would care. Their sources of support, funding and media exposure owe little to the Chamber of Commerce.

This is a remarkable reversal. The GOP used to be a party that believed in hierarchy. The Democrats were the loose coalition of assorted interests with little party discipline. For the past three decades, Democrats have nominated outsiders — George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. Republicans, by contrast, always nominated the guy who had waited his turn — George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney. And today, the Republicans are dominated by the tea party, which has no organized structure, no platform, no hierarchy and no leader.

This story began in the 1970s: As political primaries proliferated, party establishments declined. (It happened first to the Democrats, which might be why we are seeing this delayed reaction on the right.) But more recent technological and organizational changes have accelerated the shift, making it easier for outsiders to raise funds, get access to free media and establish direct connections with voters. In his book “The End of Power,” Moises Naim points out that traditional parties are declining everywhere. In Europe, for example, the Social Democrats, Germany’s oldest political party, are a shell of their former self, and new groups and parties have emerged.

At some point — probably after electoral defeat — Republicans might come to their senses. Ideological shifts come and go, but the “decay” of power (in Naim’s phrase) is moving in one direction and will continue to transform politics. The design of the American political system allows many opportunities for gridlock and paralysis, and these will only multiply unless there is a dramatic change. Without organization and leadership, government becomes difficult, and self-government becomes close to impossible. The legendary political scientist Clinton Rossiter once proclaimed, “No America without democracy, no democracy without politics, no politics without parties, no parties without compromise and moderation.” Let’s hope he was right about the last part.
Sentiments like this bother and I will tell you why:

The idea that citizens vote for representatives who do the bidding of their public (hence re-public) is being treated more and more as a bad idea these days.

The problem is that Congress is not voting on things.

Take out the controversial provisions, vote for the remainder, and then go vote on the specific provisions, and then go back to the people for election.

This concept has been lost.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Regarding the bolded, I would challenge you to name a specific law in American history when your supposed "lost concept" was carried out in such a manner.
Sure, you've never heard of filing an amendment that a provision be added to or subtracted from a law? This happens quite a bit.

In the ACA a similar situation arose with moderate Democrats who opposed funding for abortion and liberal Democrats who insisted that funding be provided. No one would budge and so what happened was they passed the law with the provision for abortion funding and then Obama immediately signed an executive order stripping the funding from the bill. The liberals got to say they protected their constituents' beliefs and the moderates got to claim teh same (though the moderate were later summarily largely thrown out of office).

If they wanted to do it they could find a way.
Except that ACA is already on the books, and has been for a couple of years. And the House proposals involve either defunding or delaying it. How is that "finding a way"?
It would be finding a way to fund the country's government and send the difficult issues back to the people.

Get everyone on the record and do it again.

I swear this has got to be the dumbest thing on earth, what kind of situation is this where we pass a law one session and then next session we won't pay for it. Fine, don't pay for it. - Or do, I don't care, but at least get on with the job and let the people decide. Since 2009 we have been dealing with this stuff.

 
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Tea Party is nothing new. In the 80's they were called the Moral Majority. In the 90s they were the Christian Coalition. They are hardcore, conservative Republicans that are outside the beltway nothing more, nothing less.
Oh my, outside the beltway.

Now that is horrible.
:shrug: use whatever term you want, they aren't part of the traditional power structure of the Republican Party and neither were the two previous groups I mentioned.
I think both parties have power centers outside the beltway. Not saying tea party is good or bad here but too much beltway thinking and power is not good for the country, left middle or right.
Although I don't like the tea party, I wasn't making a judgment about them being outsiders. Just stating how I see them. I agree with you, that as a general rule, more outsiders is a good thing.

 
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Gopnik nails it in the New Yorker today:

THE JOHN BIRCHERS’ TEA PARTYPOSTED BY ADAM GOPNIK
My colleague John Cassidy wrote not long ago about his difficulties, shared by the fine historian Jerrold Seigel, in finding an apt historical analogue for the Tea Party caucus as it exists today. Nothing quite like it anywhere else, he mused—and then Cassidy won this Francophile heart, at least, by citing as a possible model the Poujadists and Poujadisme, the small shopkeepers’ revolt in France in the nineteen-fifties—a movement that seemed to wither away when de Gaulle came to power, though it’s still alive today in many of the doctrines and practices of the French National Front. (Siegel, being provocative, must have enraged a few others by comparing our shutdown artists to the Islamic Jihad.)

As it happens, I’ve been doing some reading about John Kennedy, and what I find startling, and even surprising, is how absolutely consistent and unchanged the ideology of the extreme American right has been over the past fifty years, from father to son and now, presumably, on to son from father again. The real analogue to today’s unhinged right wing in America is yesterday’s unhinged right wing in America. This really is your grandfather’s right, if not, to be sure, your grandfather’s Republican Party. Half a century ago, the type was much more evenly distributed between the die-hard, neo-Confederate wing of the Democratic Party and the Goldwater wing of the Republicans, an equitable division of loonies that would begin to end after J.F.K.’s death. (A year later, the Civil Rights Act passed, Goldwater ran, Reagan emerged, and we began the permanent sorting out of our factions into what would be called, anywhere but here, a party of the center right and a party of the extreme right.)

Reading through the literature on the hysterias of 1963, the continuity of beliefs is plain: Now, as then, there is said to be a conspiracy in the highest places to end American Constitutional rule and replace it with a Marxist dictatorship, evidenced by a plan in which your family doctor will be replaced by a federal bureaucrat—mostly for unnamable purposes, but somehow involving the gleeful killing off of the aged. There is also the conviction, in both eras, that only a handful of Congressmen and polemicists (then mostly in newspapers; now on TV) stand between honest Americans and the apocalypse, and that the man presiding over that plan is not just a dupe but personally depraved, an active collaborator with our enemies, a secret something or other, and any necessary means to bring about the end of his reign are justified and appropriate. And fifty years ago, as today, groups with these beliefs, far from being banished to the fringe of political life, were closely entangled and intertwined with Senators and Congressmen and right-wing multi-millionaires.

In their new book, “Dallas 1963,” Bill Minutaglio and Steven L. Davis demonstrate in luxuriant detail just how clotted Dallas was with right-wing types in the period before Kennedy’s fatal visit. The John Birch Society, the paranoid, well-heeled, anti-Communist group, was the engine of the movement then, as the Tea Party is now—and though, to their great credit, the saner conservatives worked hard to keep it out of the official center, the society remained hyper-present. Powerful men, like Ted Dealey, the publisher of the Dallas Morning News, sympathized with the Birchers’ ideology, and engaged with General Edwin A. Walker, an extreme right-wing military man (and racist) who had left the Army in protest at Kennedy’s civil-rights and foreign policies—and who had the ear of Senators Strom Thurmond and John Tower. It was Walker who said of the President, “He is worse than a traitor. Kennedy has essentially exiled Americans to doom.” (It should be said that even William F. Buckley’s principled excommunication of the Birchers was unhappily specific: there was nothing wrong with claiming that the international Communist conspiracy had come to be more and more powerful under Eisenhower and Kennedy, he said; the mistake was in thinking that either man really wanted it that way, rather than that they were just feckless dupes of the encirclement.)

Medicare then, as Obamacare now, was the key evil. An editorial in the Morning Newsannounced that “JFK’s support of Medicare sounds suspiciously similar to a pro-Medicare editorial that appeared in the Worker—the official publication of the U.S. Communist Party.” At the same time, Minutaglio and Davis write, “on the radio, H.L. Hunt (the Dallas millionaire) filled the airwaves with dozens of attacks on Medicare, claiming that it would create government death panels: The plan provides a near little package of sweeping dictatorial power over medicine and the healing arts—a package which would literally make the President of the United States a medical czar with potential life or death power over every man woman and child in the country.” Stanley Marcus, the owner of the department store Neiman Marcus, heard from angry customers who were cancelling their Neiman Marcus charge cards because of his public support for the United Nations.

The whole thing came to a climax with the famous black-bordered flyer that appeared on the day of J.F.K.’s visit to Dallas, which showed him in front face and profile, as in a “Wanted” poster, with the headline “WANTED FOR TREASON.” The style of that treason is familiar mix of deliberate subversion and personal depravity. “He has been wrong on innumerable issues affecting the security of the United States”; “He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones like his previous marriage and divorce.” Birth certificate, please?

The really weird thing—the American exception in it all—then as much as now, is how tiny all the offenses are. French right-wingers really did have a powerful, Soviet-affiliated Communist Party to deal with, as their British counterparts really had honest-to-god Socialists around, socializing stuff. But the Bircher-centered loonies and the Tea Partiers created a world of fantasy, willing mild-mannered, conflict-adverse centrists like J.F.K. and Obama into socialist Supermen.

Perhaps this is in large part because the real grievance can’t quite be articulated. The common core belief, then and now, is actually descended from “Huck Finn” ’s unforgettable Pappy and his views on the “guv’mint”: the federal government exists to take money from hard-working white people and give it to lazy black people, and the President is helping to make this happen. This conviction, then and now, may not fairly be called racist in the sense that it isn’t just (or always) an expression of personal bigotry; rather, it is more like a resentment at an imagined ethnic spoils system gone wrong. (Hatred is less the key than a throbbing sense of unfairness.) Presumably, it makes space for a handful of hard-working black and brown people who are being victimized, too. (If there is much doubt that there is a racial component, the disparate reactions to Obama’s mythical foreign birth in Kenya and Ted Cruz’s actual one in Canada should put it to rest.) A focus group on the current state of the G.O.P., conducted byDemocracy Corps, an organization put together by James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, was on the whole quite sympathetic to Tea Party and to evangelical feelings of alienation from incomprehensible social change, making it plain that the core grievance is still the over-riding feeling that “their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities.”

So we don’t have to look any further than our own past to find exact cognates for today’s movement to the right. The fever won’t break, because it’s always this high. The best hope one can hope for is that, somehow, the adjustments to reality get made, even in the face of the ideology. Reality has a way of doing that to us all.

 
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Tea Party is nothing new. In the 80's they were called the Moral Majority. In the 90s they were the Christian Coalition. They are hardcore, conservative Republicans that are outside the beltway nothing more, nothing less.
The two groups you mentioned were devoted primarily to social concerns. The Tea Party is first and foremost focused on economics: spending and taxation. That is an enormous difference.
Tim is right. These groups have nothing in common other than that they are/were grassroots groups within the GOP.
No, KooKs are KooKs.

 
As usual, Fareed Zakaria is the voice of reason:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-shutdown-stems-from-gops-breakdown/2013/10/10/36de8fe0-31b9-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

In trying to explain how Washington got into its current mess, some have focused on ideology. Pundits and politicians note that the country has become more polarized, as have the political parties, particularly the GOP. That diagnosis is accurate, but another distinctive cause of today’s crisis might have even more long-lasting effects: the collapse of authority, especially within the Republican Party, which means threats and crises might be the new normal for American politics.

On the surface, the behavior of Republicans today looks a lot like that in 1995 and 1996, when the party took a strong, ideologically oriented position, stood its ground and shut down the government. But that movement was inspired, shaped and directed by House Speaker Newt Gingrich from start to finish. Speaker John Boehner, by contrast, is following rather than leading. In the 1990s, the crisis proved easier to resolve because Gingrich had the power to speak for his side. Boehner, by contrast, worries that, were he to make a deal, he would lose his job. And he is right to be worried: Tea party members repeatedly warn Boehner not to cut a deal on Obamacare, the budget or immigration.

What’s happening today is quite unlike the “Contract With America” movement of the 1990s. The tea party is a grass-roots movement of people deeply dissatisfied with the United States’ social, cultural and economic evolution over several decades. It’s crucial to understand that they blame both parties for this degeneration. In a recent Gallup survey, an astounding 43 percent of tea party activists had an unfavorable view of the Republican Party; only 55 percent had a favorable view. They see themselves as insurgents within the GOP, not loyal members. The breakdown of party discipline coupled with the rise of an extreme ideology are the twin forces propelling the current crisis.

This explains why the Republican Party has seemed so unresponsive to its traditional power bases, such as big business. Part of the problem is that businesses have been slow to recognize just how extreme the tea party is. (They remain stuck in an older narrative, in which their great fear is Democrats with ties to unions.) But even if big business got its act together, it’s not clear that the radicals in the House of Representatives would care. Their sources of support, funding and media exposure owe little to the Chamber of Commerce.

This is a remarkable reversal. The GOP used to be a party that believed in hierarchy. The Democrats were the loose coalition of assorted interests with little party discipline. For the past three decades, Democrats have nominated outsiders — George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. Republicans, by contrast, always nominated the guy who had waited his turn — George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney. And today, the Republicans are dominated by the tea party, which has no organized structure, no platform, no hierarchy and no leader.

This story began in the 1970s: As political primaries proliferated, party establishments declined. (It happened first to the Democrats, which might be why we are seeing this delayed reaction on the right.) But more recent technological and organizational changes have accelerated the shift, making it easier for outsiders to raise funds, get access to free media and establish direct connections with voters. In his book “The End of Power,” Moises Naim points out that traditional parties are declining everywhere. In Europe, for example, the Social Democrats, Germany’s oldest political party, are a shell of their former self, and new groups and parties have emerged.

At some point — probably after electoral defeat — Republicans might come to their senses. Ideological shifts come and go, but the “decay” of power (in Naim’s phrase) is moving in one direction and will continue to transform politics. The design of the American political system allows many opportunities for gridlock and paralysis, and these will only multiply unless there is a dramatic change. Without organization and leadership, government becomes difficult, and self-government becomes close to impossible. The legendary political scientist Clinton Rossiter once proclaimed, “No America without democracy, no democracy without politics, no politics without parties, no parties without compromise and moderation.” Let’s hope he was right about the last part.
:goodposting:

This analysis also helps explain why having a bunch of third parties would actually make these problems worse, not better. Traditionally, the two party system has been a strong force for moderation. The Tea Party shows what happens when that system breaks down.
What we're going through right now is a temporary pain for long term good.. Liken it to a vaccination..

I for one am not content with the status quo, The system is heading in the wrong direction and paving the way for a subservient government dependent population, which is contrary to the ideals this country was founded by..

I do not believe this situation fixes our countries problems, but it takes a group in our countries hierarchy intent to impose the will of the people to make changes. People have gotten too complacent.. And nobody wants a revolution obviously, so this is the manner in which common people make a change..

I applaud Representatives that are actually pressing for the will of their constituents.

 
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As usual, Fareed Zakaria is the voice of reason:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-shutdown-stems-from-gops-breakdown/2013/10/10/36de8fe0-31b9-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

In trying to explain how Washington got into its current mess, some have focused on ideology. Pundits and politicians note that the country has become more polarized, as have the political parties, particularly the GOP. That diagnosis is accurate, but another distinctive cause of today’s crisis might have even more long-lasting effects: the collapse of authority, especially within the Republican Party, which means threats and crises might be the new normal for American politics.

On the surface, the behavior of Republicans today looks a lot like that in 1995 and 1996, when the party took a strong, ideologically oriented position, stood its ground and shut down the government. But that movement was inspired, shaped and directed by House Speaker Newt Gingrich from start to finish. Speaker John Boehner, by contrast, is following rather than leading. In the 1990s, the crisis proved easier to resolve because Gingrich had the power to speak for his side. Boehner, by contrast, worries that, were he to make a deal, he would lose his job. And he is right to be worried: Tea party members repeatedly warn Boehner not to cut a deal on Obamacare, the budget or immigration.

What’s happening today is quite unlike the “Contract With America” movement of the 1990s. The tea party is a grass-roots movement of people deeply dissatisfied with the United States’ social, cultural and economic evolution over several decades. It’s crucial to understand that they blame both parties for this degeneration. In a recent Gallup survey, an astounding 43 percent of tea party activists had an unfavorable view of the Republican Party; only 55 percent had a favorable view. They see themselves as insurgents within the GOP, not loyal members. The breakdown of party discipline coupled with the rise of an extreme ideology are the twin forces propelling the current crisis.

This explains why the Republican Party has seemed so unresponsive to its traditional power bases, such as big business. Part of the problem is that businesses have been slow to recognize just how extreme the tea party is. (They remain stuck in an older narrative, in which their great fear is Democrats with ties to unions.) But even if big business got its act together, it’s not clear that the radicals in the House of Representatives would care. Their sources of support, funding and media exposure owe little to the Chamber of Commerce.

This is a remarkable reversal. The GOP used to be a party that believed in hierarchy. The Democrats were the loose coalition of assorted interests with little party discipline. For the past three decades, Democrats have nominated outsiders — George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. Republicans, by contrast, always nominated the guy who had waited his turn — George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney. And today, the Republicans are dominated by the tea party, which has no organized structure, no platform, no hierarchy and no leader.

This story began in the 1970s: As political primaries proliferated, party establishments declined. (It happened first to the Democrats, which might be why we are seeing this delayed reaction on the right.) But more recent technological and organizational changes have accelerated the shift, making it easier for outsiders to raise funds, get access to free media and establish direct connections with voters. In his book “The End of Power,” Moises Naim points out that traditional parties are declining everywhere. In Europe, for example, the Social Democrats, Germany’s oldest political party, are a shell of their former self, and new groups and parties have emerged.

At some point — probably after electoral defeat — Republicans might come to their senses. Ideological shifts come and go, but the “decay” of power (in Naim’s phrase) is moving in one direction and will continue to transform politics. The design of the American political system allows many opportunities for gridlock and paralysis, and these will only multiply unless there is a dramatic change. Without organization and leadership, government becomes difficult, and self-government becomes close to impossible. The legendary political scientist Clinton Rossiter once proclaimed, “No America without democracy, no democracy without politics, no politics without parties, no parties without compromise and moderation.” Let’s hope he was right about the last part.
:goodposting:

This analysis also helps explain why having a bunch of third parties would actually make these problems worse, not better. Traditionally, the two party system has been a strong force for moderation. The Tea Party shows what happens when that system breaks down.
What we're going through right now is a temporary pain for long term good.. Liken it to a vaccination..

I for one am not content with the status quo, The system is heading in the wrong direction and paving the way for a subservient government dependent population, which is contrary to the ideals this country was founded by..

I do not believe this situation fixes our countries problems, but it takes a group in our countries hierarchy intent to impose the will of the people to make changes. People have gotten too complacent.. And nobody wants a revolution obviously, so this is the manner in which common people make a change..

I applaud Representatives that are actually pressing for the will of their constituents.
You're opposed to the deficit dropping at a record rate and less folks on welfare than in 1995?

 
Gopnik nails it in the New Yorker today:

THE JOHN BIRCHERS’ TEA PARTYPOSTED BY ADAM GOPNIK
My colleague John Cassidy wrote not long ago about his difficulties, shared by the fine historian Jerrold Seigel, in finding an apt historical analogue for the Tea Party caucus as it exists today. Nothing quite like it anywhere else, he mused—and then Cassidy won this Francophile heart, at least, by citing as a possible model the Poujadists and Poujadisme, the small shopkeepers’ revolt in France in the nineteen-fifties—a movement that seemed to wither away when de Gaulle came to power, though it’s still alive today in many of the doctrines and practices of the French National Front. (Siegel, being provocative, must have enraged a few others by comparing our shutdown artists to the Islamic Jihad.)

As it happens, I’ve been doing some reading about John Kennedy, and what I find startling, and even surprising, is how absolutely consistent and unchanged the ideology of the extreme American right has been over the past fifty years, from father to son and now, presumably, on to son from father again. The real analogue to today’s unhinged right wing in America is yesterday’s unhinged right wing in America. This really is your grandfather’s right, if not, to be sure, your grandfather’s Republican Party. Half a century ago, the type was much more evenly distributed between the die-hard, neo-Confederate wing of the Democratic Party and the Goldwater wing of the Republicans, an equitable division of loonies that would begin to end after J.F.K.’s death. (A year later, the Civil Rights Act passed, Goldwater ran, Reagan emerged, and we began the permanent sorting out of our factions into what would be called, anywhere but here, a party of the center right and a party of the extreme right.)

Reading through the literature on the hysterias of 1963, the continuity of beliefs is plain: Now, as then, there is said to be a conspiracy in the highest places to end American Constitutional rule and replace it with a Marxist dictatorship, evidenced by a plan in which your family doctor will be replaced by a federal bureaucrat—mostly for unnamable purposes, but somehow involving the gleeful killing off of the aged. There is also the conviction, in both eras, that only a handful of Congressmen and polemicists (then mostly in newspapers; now on TV) stand between honest Americans and the apocalypse, and that the man presiding over that plan is not just a dupe but personally depraved, an active collaborator with our enemies, a secret something or other, and any necessary means to bring about the end of his reign are justified and appropriate. And fifty years ago, as today, groups with these beliefs, far from being banished to the fringe of political life, were closely entangled and intertwined with Senators and Congressmen and right-wing multi-millionaires.

In their new book, “Dallas 1963,” Bill Minutaglio and Steven L. Davis demonstrate in luxuriant detail just how clotted Dallas was with right-wing types in the period before Kennedy’s fatal visit. The John Birch Society, the paranoid, well-heeled, anti-Communist group, was the engine of the movement then, as the Tea Party is now—and though, to their great credit, the saner conservatives worked hard to keep it out of the official center, the society remained hyper-present. Powerful men, like Ted Dealey, the publisher of the Dallas Morning News, sympathized with the Birchers’ ideology, and engaged with General Edwin A. Walker, an extreme right-wing military man (and racist) who had left the Army in protest at Kennedy’s civil-rights and foreign policies—and who had the ear of Senators Strom Thurmond and John Tower. It was Walker who said of the President, “He is worse than a traitor. Kennedy has essentially exiled Americans to doom.” (It should be said that even William F. Buckley’s principled excommunication of the Birchers was unhappily specific: there was nothing wrong with claiming that the international Communist conspiracy had come to be more and more powerful under Eisenhower and Kennedy, he said; the mistake was in thinking that either man really wanted it that way, rather than that they were just feckless dupes of the encirclement.)

Medicare then, as Obamacare now, was the key evil. An editorial in the Morning Newsannounced that “JFK’s support of Medicare sounds suspiciously similar to a pro-Medicare editorial that appeared in the Worker—the official publication of the U.S. Communist Party.” At the same time, Minutaglio and Davis write, “on the radio, H.L. Hunt (the Dallas millionaire) filled the airwaves with dozens of attacks on Medicare, claiming that it would create government death panels: The plan provides a near little package of sweeping dictatorial power over medicine and the healing arts—a package which would literally make the President of the United States a medical czar with potential life or death power over every man woman and child in the country.” Stanley Marcus, the owner of the department store Neiman Marcus, heard from angry customers who were cancelling their Neiman Marcus charge cards because of his public support for the United Nations.

The whole thing came to a climax with the famous black-bordered flyer that appeared on the day of J.F.K.’s visit to Dallas, which showed him in front face and profile, as in a “Wanted” poster, with the headline “WANTED FOR TREASON.” The style of that treason is familiar mix of deliberate subversion and personal depravity. “He has been wrong on innumerable issues affecting the security of the United States”; “He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones like his previous marriage and divorce.” Birth certificate, please?

The really weird thing—the American exception in it all—then as much as now, is how tiny all the offenses are. French right-wingers really did have a powerful, Soviet-affiliated Communist Party to deal with, as their British counterparts really had honest-to-god Socialists around, socializing stuff. But the Bircher-centered loonies and the Tea Partiers created a world of fantasy, willing mild-mannered, conflict-adverse centrists like J.F.K. and Obama into socialist Supermen.

Perhaps this is in large part because the real grievance can’t quite be articulated. The common core belief, then and now, is actually descended from “Huck Finn” ’s unforgettable Pappy and his views on the “guv’mint”: the federal government exists to take money from hard-working white people and give it to lazy black people, and the President is helping to make this happen. This conviction, then and now, may not fairly be called racist in the sense that it isn’t just (or always) an expression of personal bigotry; rather, it is more like a resentment at an imagined ethnic spoils system gone wrong. (Hatred is less the key than a throbbing sense of unfairness.) Presumably, it makes space for a handful of hard-working black and brown people who are being victimized, too. (If there is much doubt that there is a racial component, the disparate reactions to Obama’s mythical foreign birth in Kenya and Ted Cruz’s actual one in Canada should put it to rest.) A focus group on the current state of the G.O.P., conducted byDemocracy Corps, an organization put together by James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, was on the whole quite sympathetic to Tea Party and to evangelical feelings of alienation from incomprehensible social change, making it plain that the core grievance is still the over-riding feeling that “their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities.”

So we don’t have to look any further than our own past to find exact cognates for today’s movement to the right. The fever won’t break, because it’s always this high. The best hope one can hope for is that, somehow, the adjustments to reality get made, even in the face of the ideology. Reality has a way of doing that to us all.
I wouldn't go as far as to call them Birchers, but that is a similar thought process to what I said. There certainty are elements of Birchers in it as well, but the Tea Party isn't dominated by those types IMO.

 
Gopnik nails it in the New Yorker today:

THE JOHN BIRCHERS’ TEA PARTYPOSTED BY ADAM GOPNIK
My colleague John Cassidy wrote not long ago about his difficulties, shared by the fine historian Jerrold Seigel, in finding an apt historical analogue for the Tea Party caucus as it exists today. Nothing quite like it anywhere else, he mused—and then Cassidy won this Francophile heart, at least, by citing as a possible model the Poujadists and Poujadisme, the small shopkeepers’ revolt in France in the nineteen-fifties—a movement that seemed to wither away when de Gaulle came to power, though it’s still alive today in many of the doctrines and practices of the French National Front. (Siegel, being provocative, must have enraged a few others by comparing our shutdown artists to the Islamic Jihad.)

As it happens, I’ve been doing some reading about John Kennedy, and what I find startling, and even surprising, is how absolutely consistent and unchanged the ideology of the extreme American right has been over the past fifty years, from father to son and now, presumably, on to son from father again. The real analogue to today’s unhinged right wing in America is yesterday’s unhinged right wing in America. This really is your grandfather’s right, if not, to be sure, your grandfather’s Republican Party. Half a century ago, the type was much more evenly distributed between the die-hard, neo-Confederate wing of the Democratic Party and the Goldwater wing of the Republicans, an equitable division of loonies that would begin to end after J.F.K.’s death. (A year later, the Civil Rights Act passed, Goldwater ran, Reagan emerged, and we began the permanent sorting out of our factions into what would be called, anywhere but here, a party of the center right and a party of the extreme right.)

Reading through the literature on the hysterias of 1963, the continuity of beliefs is plain: Now, as then, there is said to be a conspiracy in the highest places to end American Constitutional rule and replace it with a Marxist dictatorship, evidenced by a plan in which your family doctor will be replaced by a federal bureaucrat—mostly for unnamable purposes, but somehow involving the gleeful killing off of the aged. There is also the conviction, in both eras, that only a handful of Congressmen and polemicists (then mostly in newspapers; now on TV) stand between honest Americans and the apocalypse, and that the man presiding over that plan is not just a dupe but personally depraved, an active collaborator with our enemies, a secret something or other, and any necessary means to bring about the end of his reign are justified and appropriate. And fifty years ago, as today, groups with these beliefs, far from being banished to the fringe of political life, were closely entangled and intertwined with Senators and Congressmen and right-wing multi-millionaires.

In their new book, “Dallas 1963,” Bill Minutaglio and Steven L. Davis demonstrate in luxuriant detail just how clotted Dallas was with right-wing types in the period before Kennedy’s fatal visit. The John Birch Society, the paranoid, well-heeled, anti-Communist group, was the engine of the movement then, as the Tea Party is now—and though, to their great credit, the saner conservatives worked hard to keep it out of the official center, the society remained hyper-present. Powerful men, like Ted Dealey, the publisher of the Dallas Morning News, sympathized with the Birchers’ ideology, and engaged with General Edwin A. Walker, an extreme right-wing military man (and racist) who had left the Army in protest at Kennedy’s civil-rights and foreign policies—and who had the ear of Senators Strom Thurmond and John Tower. It was Walker who said of the President, “He is worse than a traitor. Kennedy has essentially exiled Americans to doom.” (It should be said that even William F. Buckley’s principled excommunication of the Birchers was unhappily specific: there was nothing wrong with claiming that the international Communist conspiracy had come to be more and more powerful under Eisenhower and Kennedy, he said; the mistake was in thinking that either man really wanted it that way, rather than that they were just feckless dupes of the encirclement.)

Medicare then, as Obamacare now, was the key evil. An editorial in the Morning Newsannounced that “JFK’s support of Medicare sounds suspiciously similar to a pro-Medicare editorial that appeared in the Worker—the official publication of the U.S. Communist Party.” At the same time, Minutaglio and Davis write, “on the radio, H.L. Hunt (the Dallas millionaire) filled the airwaves with dozens of attacks on Medicare, claiming that it would create government death panels: The plan provides a near little package of sweeping dictatorial power over medicine and the healing arts—a package which would literally make the President of the United States a medical czar with potential life or death power over every man woman and child in the country.” Stanley Marcus, the owner of the department store Neiman Marcus, heard from angry customers who were cancelling their Neiman Marcus charge cards because of his public support for the United Nations.

The whole thing came to a climax with the famous black-bordered flyer that appeared on the day of J.F.K.’s visit to Dallas, which showed him in front face and profile, as in a “Wanted” poster, with the headline “WANTED FOR TREASON.” The style of that treason is familiar mix of deliberate subversion and personal depravity. “He has been wrong on innumerable issues affecting the security of the United States”; “He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones like his previous marriage and divorce.” Birth certificate, please?

The really weird thing—the American exception in it all—then as much as now, is how tiny all the offenses are. French right-wingers really did have a powerful, Soviet-affiliated Communist Party to deal with, as their British counterparts really had honest-to-god Socialists around, socializing stuff. But the Bircher-centered loonies and the Tea Partiers created a world of fantasy, willing mild-mannered, conflict-adverse centrists like J.F.K. and Obama into socialist Supermen.

Perhaps this is in large part because the real grievance can’t quite be articulated. The common core belief, then and now, is actually descended from “Huck Finn” ’s unforgettable Pappy and his views on the “guv’mint”: the federal government exists to take money from hard-working white people and give it to lazy black people, and the President is helping to make this happen. This conviction, then and now, may not fairly be called racist in the sense that it isn’t just (or always) an expression of personal bigotry; rather, it is more like a resentment at an imagined ethnic spoils system gone wrong. (Hatred is less the key than a throbbing sense of unfairness.) Presumably, it makes space for a handful of hard-working black and brown people who are being victimized, too. (If there is much doubt that there is a racial component, the disparate reactions to Obama’s mythical foreign birth in Kenya and Ted Cruz’s actual one in Canada should put it to rest.) A focus group on the current state of the G.O.P., conducted byDemocracy Corps, an organization put together by James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, was on the whole quite sympathetic to Tea Party and to evangelical feelings of alienation from incomprehensible social change, making it plain that the core grievance is still the over-riding feeling that “their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities.”

So we don’t have to look any further than our own past to find exact cognates for today’s movement to the right. The fever won’t break, because it’s always this high. The best hope one can hope for is that, somehow, the adjustments to reality get made, even in the face of the ideology. Reality has a way of doing that to us all.
I stopped reading shortly after the Goldwater reference. Goldwater wasn't a conspiracy nut, he detested the Moral Majority, and he would have nothing but scorn for the way the Tea Party is going about business (even if he would agree with them about the virtue of small government, as do I).

 
Gopnik nails it in the New Yorker today:

THE JOHN BIRCHERS’ TEA PARTYPOSTED BY ADAM GOPNIK
My colleague John Cassidy wrote not long ago about his difficulties, shared by the fine historian Jerrold Seigel, in finding an apt historical analogue for the Tea Party caucus as it exists today. Nothing quite like it anywhere else, he mused—and then Cassidy won this Francophile heart, at least, by citing as a possible model the Poujadists and Poujadisme, the small shopkeepers’ revolt in France in the nineteen-fifties—a movement that seemed to wither away when de Gaulle came to power, though it’s still alive today in many of the doctrines and practices of the French National Front. (Siegel, being provocative, must have enraged a few others by comparing our shutdown artists to the Islamic Jihad.)

As it happens, I’ve been doing some reading about John Kennedy, and what I find startling, and even surprising, is how absolutely consistent and unchanged the ideology of the extreme American right has been over the past fifty years, from father to son and now, presumably, on to son from father again. The real analogue to today’s unhinged right wing in America is yesterday’s unhinged right wing in America. This really is your grandfather’s right, if not, to be sure, your grandfather’s Republican Party. Half a century ago, the type was much more evenly distributed between the die-hard, neo-Confederate wing of the Democratic Party and the Goldwater wing of the Republicans, an equitable division of loonies that would begin to end after J.F.K.’s death. (A year later, the Civil Rights Act passed, Goldwater ran, Reagan emerged, and we began the permanent sorting out of our factions into what would be called, anywhere but here, a party of the center right and a party of the extreme right.)

Reading through the literature on the hysterias of 1963, the continuity of beliefs is plain: Now, as then, there is said to be a conspiracy in the highest places to end American Constitutional rule and replace it with a Marxist dictatorship, evidenced by a plan in which your family doctor will be replaced by a federal bureaucrat—mostly for unnamable purposes, but somehow involving the gleeful killing off of the aged. There is also the conviction, in both eras, that only a handful of Congressmen and polemicists (then mostly in newspapers; now on TV) stand between honest Americans and the apocalypse, and that the man presiding over that plan is not just a dupe but personally depraved, an active collaborator with our enemies, a secret something or other, and any necessary means to bring about the end of his reign are justified and appropriate. And fifty years ago, as today, groups with these beliefs, far from being banished to the fringe of political life, were closely entangled and intertwined with Senators and Congressmen and right-wing multi-millionaires.

In their new book, “Dallas 1963,” Bill Minutaglio and Steven L. Davis demonstrate in luxuriant detail just how clotted Dallas was with right-wing types in the period before Kennedy’s fatal visit. The John Birch Society, the paranoid, well-heeled, anti-Communist group, was the engine of the movement then, as the Tea Party is now—and though, to their great credit, the saner conservatives worked hard to keep it out of the official center, the society remained hyper-present. Powerful men, like Ted Dealey, the publisher of the Dallas Morning News, sympathized with the Birchers’ ideology, and engaged with General Edwin A. Walker, an extreme right-wing military man (and racist) who had left the Army in protest at Kennedy’s civil-rights and foreign policies—and who had the ear of Senators Strom Thurmond and John Tower. It was Walker who said of the President, “He is worse than a traitor. Kennedy has essentially exiled Americans to doom.” (It should be said that even William F. Buckley’s principled excommunication of the Birchers was unhappily specific: there was nothing wrong with claiming that the international Communist conspiracy had come to be more and more powerful under Eisenhower and Kennedy, he said; the mistake was in thinking that either man really wanted it that way, rather than that they were just feckless dupes of the encirclement.)

Medicare then, as Obamacare now, was the key evil. An editorial in the Morning Newsannounced that “JFK’s support of Medicare sounds suspiciously similar to a pro-Medicare editorial that appeared in the Worker—the official publication of the U.S. Communist Party.” At the same time, Minutaglio and Davis write, “on the radio, H.L. Hunt (the Dallas millionaire) filled the airwaves with dozens of attacks on Medicare, claiming that it would create government death panels: The plan provides a near little package of sweeping dictatorial power over medicine and the healing arts—a package which would literally make the President of the United States a medical czar with potential life or death power over every man woman and child in the country.” Stanley Marcus, the owner of the department store Neiman Marcus, heard from angry customers who were cancelling their Neiman Marcus charge cards because of his public support for the United Nations.

The whole thing came to a climax with the famous black-bordered flyer that appeared on the day of J.F.K.’s visit to Dallas, which showed him in front face and profile, as in a “Wanted” poster, with the headline “WANTED FOR TREASON.” The style of that treason is familiar mix of deliberate subversion and personal depravity. “He has been wrong on innumerable issues affecting the security of the United States”; “He has been caught in fantastic lies to the American people, including personal ones like his previous marriage and divorce.” Birth certificate, please?

The really weird thing—the American exception in it all—then as much as now, is how tiny all the offenses are. French right-wingers really did have a powerful, Soviet-affiliated Communist Party to deal with, as their British counterparts really had honest-to-god Socialists around, socializing stuff. But the Bircher-centered loonies and the Tea Partiers created a world of fantasy, willing mild-mannered, conflict-adverse centrists like J.F.K. and Obama into socialist Supermen.

Perhaps this is in large part because the real grievance can’t quite be articulated. The common core belief, then and now, is actually descended from “Huck Finn” ’s unforgettable Pappy and his views on the “guv’mint”: the federal government exists to take money from hard-working white people and give it to lazy black people, and the President is helping to make this happen. This conviction, then and now, may not fairly be called racist in the sense that it isn’t just (or always) an expression of personal bigotry; rather, it is more like a resentment at an imagined ethnic spoils system gone wrong. (Hatred is less the key than a throbbing sense of unfairness.) Presumably, it makes space for a handful of hard-working black and brown people who are being victimized, too. (If there is much doubt that there is a racial component, the disparate reactions to Obama’s mythical foreign birth in Kenya and Ted Cruz’s actual one in Canada should put it to rest.) A focus group on the current state of the G.O.P., conducted byDemocracy Corps, an organization put together by James Carville and Stanley Greenberg, was on the whole quite sympathetic to Tea Party and to evangelical feelings of alienation from incomprehensible social change, making it plain that the core grievance is still the over-riding feeling that “their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities.”

So we don’t have to look any further than our own past to find exact cognates for today’s movement to the right. The fever won’t break, because it’s always this high. The best hope one can hope for is that, somehow, the adjustments to reality get made, even in the face of the ideology. Reality has a way of doing that to us all.
Aside from the points about the tea party and whether these strains have been in American society over time...

...the insistence on tying in Dallas 1963 with this whole thing is just plain inflammatory. Hey Kennedy was shot by a socialist/communist, maybe the Birchers were right on at least that point.

Everybody ought to leave ideology like this out of it, if you ant to get into socialism look at the cost of health care on the former USSR, and what it does to governments and economies in Europe today.

 
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Link

More states becoming Purple.
nothing new. that's why Obama was elected president.
I also remember Obama running on criticism of Bush's deficits, his running up the debt, poorly managing foreign policy, and promised being more bipartisan, ending the red/blue divide, "smart power," ending executive orders, transparency, yada yada.

Seemed to me lots of people liked that, where did that go?

 
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As usual, Fareed Zakaria is the voice of reason:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-shutdown-stems-from-gops-breakdown/2013/10/10/36de8fe0-31b9-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

In trying to explain how Washington got into its current mess, some have focused on ideology. Pundits and politicians note that the country has become more polarized, as have the political parties, particularly the GOP. That diagnosis is accurate, but another distinctive cause of today’s crisis might have even more long-lasting effects: the collapse of authority, especially within the Republican Party, which means threats and crises might be the new normal for American politics.

On the surface, the behavior of Republicans today looks a lot like that in 1995 and 1996, when the party took a strong, ideologically oriented position, stood its ground and shut down the government. But that movement was inspired, shaped and directed by House Speaker Newt Gingrich from start to finish. Speaker John Boehner, by contrast, is following rather than leading. In the 1990s, the crisis proved easier to resolve because Gingrich had the power to speak for his side. Boehner, by contrast, worries that, were he to make a deal, he would lose his job. And he is right to be worried: Tea party members repeatedly warn Boehner not to cut a deal on Obamacare, the budget or immigration.

What’s happening today is quite unlike the “Contract With America” movement of the 1990s. The tea party is a grass-roots movement of people deeply dissatisfied with the United States’ social, cultural and economic evolution over several decades. It’s crucial to understand that they blame both parties for this degeneration. In a recent Gallup survey, an astounding 43 percent of tea party activists had an unfavorable view of the Republican Party; only 55 percent had a favorable view. They see themselves as insurgents within the GOP, not loyal members. The breakdown of party discipline coupled with the rise of an extreme ideology are the twin forces propelling the current crisis.

This explains why the Republican Party has seemed so unresponsive to its traditional power bases, such as big business. Part of the problem is that businesses have been slow to recognize just how extreme the tea party is. (They remain stuck in an older narrative, in which their great fear is Democrats with ties to unions.) But even if big business got its act together, it’s not clear that the radicals in the House of Representatives would care. Their sources of support, funding and media exposure owe little to the Chamber of Commerce.

This is a remarkable reversal. The GOP used to be a party that believed in hierarchy. The Democrats were the loose coalition of assorted interests with little party discipline. For the past three decades, Democrats have nominated outsiders — George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. Republicans, by contrast, always nominated the guy who had waited his turn — George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney. And today, the Republicans are dominated by the tea party, which has no organized structure, no platform, no hierarchy and no leader.

This story began in the 1970s: As political primaries proliferated, party establishments declined. (It happened first to the Democrats, which might be why we are seeing this delayed reaction on the right.) But more recent technological and organizational changes have accelerated the shift, making it easier for outsiders to raise funds, get access to free media and establish direct connections with voters. In his book “The End of Power,” Moises Naim points out that traditional parties are declining everywhere. In Europe, for example, the Social Democrats, Germany’s oldest political party, are a shell of their former self, and new groups and parties have emerged.

At some point — probably after electoral defeat — Republicans might come to their senses. Ideological shifts come and go, but the “decay” of power (in Naim’s phrase) is moving in one direction and will continue to transform politics. The design of the American political system allows many opportunities for gridlock and paralysis, and these will only multiply unless there is a dramatic change. Without organization and leadership, government becomes difficult, and self-government becomes close to impossible. The legendary political scientist Clinton Rossiter once proclaimed, “No America without democracy, no democracy without politics, no politics without parties, no parties without compromise and moderation.” Let’s hope he was right about the last part.
:goodposting:

This analysis also helps explain why having a bunch of third parties would actually make these problems worse, not better. Traditionally, the two party system has been a strong force for moderation. The Tea Party shows what happens when that system breaks down.
What we're going through right now is a temporary pain for long term good.. Liken it to a vaccination..

I for one am not content with the status quo, The system is heading in the wrong direction and paving the way for a subservient government dependent population, which is contrary to the ideals this country was founded by..

I do not believe this situation fixes our countries problems, but it takes a group in our countries hierarchy intent to impose the will of the people to make changes. People have gotten too complacent.. And nobody wants a revolution obviously, so this is the manner in which common people make a change..

I applaud Representatives that are actually pressing for the will of their constituents.
You're opposed to the deficit dropping at a record rate and less folks on welfare than in 1995?
When you go from billions of dollars in corporate handouts for banks, auto industry etc, to none of those, then obviously there will be a spending decrease.. Look at the long term projection, stop drinking the koolaid..

 
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Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Everything aside from something isn't really everything.
I think you probably knew what I meant..

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.

 
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Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Everything aside from something isn't really everything.
I think you probably knew what I meant..
I'm pretty sure you meant to parrot an independent librarian talking point.

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
Correct, not everything.

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
Repetition does not improve your argument.

 
Link

More states becoming Purple.
nothing new. that's why Obama was elected president.
I also remember Obama running on criticism of Bush's deficits, his running up the debt, poorly managing foreign policy, and promised being more bipartisan, ending the red/blue divide, "smart power," ending executive orders, transparency, yada yada.

Seemed to me lots of people liked that, where did that go?
Got thrown right out the window.

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
Repetition does not improve your argument.
These are known facts, I don't have to argue them.. You can continue with your head in the sand though.. Good day (evening) to you..

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.
link?

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.
link?
1) they didnt get everything. god darn CH

....the amount is WAY lower then the democrats wanted. That was the Republican amount. So they negotiated.

2) Here is the link... of Boehner changing the agreement.

http://youtu.be/q8GuMRxk5TU?t=3m5s

(70 billion below what the senate wanted... but then they changed it to try and undo Obamacare. Got politically greedy.)

3) BOEHNER: It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal.

 
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Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.
link?
1) they didnt get everything. god darn CH

....the amount is WAY lower then the democrats wanted. That was the Republican amount. So they negotiated.

2) Here is the link... of Boehner changing the agreement.

http://youtu.be/q8GuMRxk5TU?t=3m5s

(70 billion below what the senate wanted... but then they changed it to try and undo Obamacare. Got politically greedy.)

3) BOEHNER: It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal.
He said there was a discussion.. There was never an agreement..

You said "the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate" which isn't true..

 
Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.
link?
1) they didnt get everything. god darn CH

....the amount is WAY lower then the democrats wanted. That was the Republican amount. So they negotiated.

2) Here is the link... of Boehner changing the agreement.

http://youtu.be/q8GuMRxk5TU?t=3m5s

(70 billion below what the senate wanted... but then they changed it to try and undo Obamacare. Got politically greedy.)

3) BOEHNER: It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal.
He said there was a discussion.. There was never an agreement..

You said "the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate" which isn't true..
Right it was Boehners and the GOP that offered of a clean resolution. Then they changed it, reneged.

And he said "WE ARE RISKING SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVT" going after Obama Care.

"We" only includes those who want to undermine Obamacare.

 
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Well the reality is that the Republicans offered a spending bill that would keep everything running.. Senate rejected it because there was no appropriation for Obamacare (which is a disaster).. All of this could have been avoided..
Everything?
aside from ACA right?
Words CH doesn't understand:

Fact

Truth

Everything
I've given you an opportunity to prove me wrong...

What is not true about this?

The House passed several spending budgets to the Senate, that would end the shutdown.. But Dems in Senate, and the White-house will not have a budget passed without ACA, opting rather for a shutdown.. That's true.. Facts..
From John Boehners own admission Sunday...

Reality is John Boehner, the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate.

Then the Republicans backed out of it because they wanted more. Thus we are shut down.
link?
1) they didnt get everything. god darn CH

....the amount is WAY lower then the democrats wanted. That was the Republican amount. So they negotiated.

2) Here is the link... of Boehner changing the agreement.

http://youtu.be/q8GuMRxk5TU?t=3m5s

(70 billion below what the senate wanted... but then they changed it to try and undo Obamacare. Got politically greedy.)

3) BOEHNER: It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal.
He said there was a discussion.. There was never an agreement..

You said "the Republicans and the House had reached an agreement with the Senate" which isn't true..
Right it was Boehners and teh GOP that offered of a clean resolution. Then they changed it, reneged.
It was a discussion that was never formal. Boehner discussed what would be accepted if the house would agree. The house did not agree. There was never a formal offer tendered, so there was no offer to renege on.

 
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Correct, the GOP changed and shut down the government as such.

And he said "WE ARE RISKING SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVT" going after Obama Care.

"We" only includes those who want to undermine Obamacare.

 
Correct, the GOP changed and shut down the government as such.

And he said "WE ARE RISKING SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVT" going after Obama Care.

"We" only includes those who want to undermine Obamacare.
Only because the Senate and Whitehouse won't pass a budget that doesn't include ACA...

 
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Correct, the GOP changed and shut down the government as such.

And he said "WE ARE RISKING SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVT" going after Obama Care.

"We" only includes those who want to undermine Obamacare.
Only because the Senate and Whitehouse won't pass a budget that doesn't include AVA...
Thet senate dems came down 70 billion dollars in those "non formal" discussions that stuck

But you are obviously making excuses. You are saying things counter to John Boehner now.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/hi-res-7.jpg?w=920&h=690

 
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3) BOEHNER: It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal.
Sounds like we need to keep re-passing it. Maybe we can wait for Obama to go up for re-election and see what the voters think about his polices.

 
skipped over a bunch of pages so not sure what I missed...

local talk radio was trying really really hard to build up the trucker thing. "call in and tell us what you saw!" "hey, I was up there and there were at least 30 trucks!" "GB the truckers!" :lol:

apparently CH has joined the fray. :deadhorse:

and I blame Bush

 
Correct, the GOP changed and shut down the government as such.

And he said "WE ARE RISKING SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVT" going after Obama Care.

"We" only includes those who want to undermine Obamacare.
Only because the Senate and Whitehouse won't pass a budget that doesn't include AVA...
Thet senate dems came down 70 billion dollars in those "non formal" discussions that stuck

But you are obviously making excuses. You are saying things counter to John Boehner now.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/hi-res-7.jpg?w=920&h=690
Simple yes or no question..

If the Senate and whitehouse would allow a bill to pass that funds everything but the ACA, do you think we would still be in shutdown?

 

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