eurotrashman
Footballguy
Crazy story, you're not going to believe this. Republicans shut down the government and are still fighting with each other over why.
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The Tea Party is back in business! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I heard Harry Reid told Mitch McConnell he'd pass the House bill if he could have a three way with McConnell's wife and daughter, but McConnell said no. So, really... who's to blame here?
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NajehHejan
Footballguy
The Republicans are holding the country hostage. Plain and simple.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Of course none of you blue teamers or super libs will answer that question, because you don't like your own answer..
timschochet
Footballguy
Looks like a deal is in the works:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/government-shutdown-republicans_n_4086110.html
UPDATE: 5:45 p.m. -- A bipartisan group of 10 senators -- five on each side -- are crafting a compromise that funds the government through March, lifts the debt ceiling through June, eases sequestration, and gently tinkers with Obamacare by delaying the medical device tax by two years, according to a source familiar with the outlines of the possible bargain. The tax cut would be paid for by what's known as "pension smoothing," an idea advocated by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that raises money in the early years of the new policy.
If the Senate can agree to an arrangement along these lines, there would be intense pressure on Boehner to accept it and let it pass with Democratic and Republican votes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/government-shutdown-republicans_n_4086110.html
UPDATE: 5:45 p.m. -- A bipartisan group of 10 senators -- five on each side -- are crafting a compromise that funds the government through March, lifts the debt ceiling through June, eases sequestration, and gently tinkers with Obamacare by delaying the medical device tax by two years, according to a source familiar with the outlines of the possible bargain. The tax cut would be paid for by what's known as "pension smoothing," an idea advocated by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo that raises money in the early years of the new policy.
If the Senate can agree to an arrangement along these lines, there would be intense pressure on Boehner to accept it and let it pass with Democratic and Republican votes.
Answer is no way in hell
And why would they? The ACA has been approved by all levels of the GOVT, and an election. If you are so scared if it failing so much let it go and fail. Guess who will reap the benifits.. the Republicans and Tea Party gang. But there is a reason why the Republicans do not want to get it off the ground and that is that it will be liked by even Republicans. in time.
Simple question for you
Would you support a bill that the Dems put forth that had some sort of gun control in to reopen the Govt if they delayed the ACA? (I am not for gun control either) but that is what you are asking the Dems to do.
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timschochet
Footballguy
So hoping this happens. It would end the current crisis, get rid of that STUPID sequester, and completely repudiate the Tea Party.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
I'd rather live with the ramifications of this ACA then give up guns
Obviously the ACA has not been approved by all levels of the current government, or the Dems would have no problem breaking it out separate..
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I thought there was already intense pressure because of how much people hate what's happening. Sounds like a crap deal to me.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
This gives me hope that I have untapped reservoirs of hate for both political parties.timschochet said:
Nah, I'm sure that enraging the Tea Party further is going to make them just go away peacefully.
It's just going to get uglier from here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Things that enrage the Tea PartyNah, I'm sure that enraging the Tea Party further is going to make them just go away peacefully.
It's just going to get uglier from here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
- Oxygen
No, they love oxygen. It's one of the few things left in this country that's still free.Things that enrage the Tea PartyNah, I'm sure that enraging the Tea Party further is going to make them just go away peacefully.
It's just going to get uglier from here. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
- Oxygen
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
You lost = Move the goalpost! Next time just man up.Carolina Hustler said:
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
What did i lose? curious.. I never moved the goal posts, This is the same thing I've been saying the whole time... Answer the question..
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Yes. There would not be a deal. Because it sets a precedent of allowing a minority group of representatives to exercise control over laws on the books simply by threatening to not fund the gov't otherwise. Next thing you know, it'd be like the filibuster - you don't have to actual do it, you just have to threaten to do it.Carolina Hustler said:
So yes, I think we would be in a shutdown because enough politicians in Washington understand that they cannot give in to a small group of extremist politicians.
On a slightly different note, they want to change the laws, do it by getting more people elected and then change the law. Don't do things that harm the country because you don't like that not enough American's support your views to get your views reflected in the law of the land.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Bottomfeeder Sports said:Carolina Hustler said:
It's so good it should be fattening.
timschochet
Footballguy
Most likely the deal will be done by Monday or Tuesday at the latest. Per Politico, it's a huge victory for Obama, and a total defeat for conservatives. The turning point was the Thursday night Wall Street Journal poll which showed Republican approval down to 21%- the lowest ever. Both Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin angrily tried to claim the poll was a fraud today, but the Republican leadership knew better: it was time to surrender and fight another day.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
You're dreamin.. There have been negotiations involved in every debt ceiling increase in the history of the country, If Obama and the Senate Dems would allow a spending bill that didn't include ACA, there would be no shutdown..
LinusMarr
Footballguy
I was just called by my boss that we should be going back to work Tuesday or weds. So vaca is about over...
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
If the deal includes the immediate resignation of all Tea Party members of Congress, yes. Now, will the House agree to that?
Fennis
Footballguy
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Joe McGee
Footballguy
Do you ever S T F U? How many posts of pure speculation do you honestly need to make on this forum? The deal will be done will it's done, not when you think it will. We don't need you to needlessly drone on and on with your opinions!
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
I say the dems refuse to sign a funding bill until marijuana is federally legalized and blame the shutdown on the GOP.
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dparker713
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Getting upset with the probable outcome here? I can see why. Your stance and the people you like are about to be thoroughly repudiated and embarrassed. Feel free to continue to take if out on me; I don't mind.
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quickhands
Footballguy
notimschochet said:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Simple question: if I went back in time and banged Boehner's Mom on his conception date, would there still be a shutdown?
badmojo1006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
This may turn out to be the silver lining I was hoping for:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/republicans-tea-party-government-shutdown_n_4083790.html
DES MOINES, Iowa -- DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington.
The Republican establishment also is signaling a willingness to strike back at the tea party in next fall's elections.
"It's time for someone to act like a grown-up in this process," former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu argues, faulting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party Republicans in the House as much as President Barack Obama for taking an uncompromising stance.
Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is just as pointed, saying this about the tea party-fueled refusal to support spending measures that include money for Obama's health care law: "It never had a chance."
The anger emanating from Republicans like Sununu and Barbour comes just three years after the GOP embraced the insurgent political group and rode its wave of new energy to return to power in the House.
Now, they're lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they're laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.
Iowa Republicans are recruiting a pro-business Republican to challenge six-term conservative Rep. Steve King, a leader in the push to defund the health care law. Disgruntled Republicans are further ahead in Michigan, where second-term, tea party-backed Rep. Justin Amash is facing a Republican primary challenger who is more in line with — and being encouraged by — the party establishment. And business interest groups, long aligned with the Republican Party, also are threatening to recruit and fund strong challengers to tea party House members.
Tea party backers are undeterred and assail party leaders.
"They keep compromising," said Katrina Pierson, a former Dallas-area tea party organizer now challenging Rep. Pete Sessions of Texas in the 2014 GOP primary. "They all campaigned on fiscal responsibility. They just need to do what they campaigned on."
In more than a dozen interviews, Republican leaders, officials and strategists at all levels of the party blamed Obama for the shutdown but also faulted tea party lawmakers in the House, who have insisted that any deal to reopen the government be contingent on stripping money for the health care law.
An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed why these party loyalists are so concerned: More Republicans told pollsters that the GOP is mishandling the shutdown than is handling it well. And among those who say it's being poorly handled, twice as many Republicans say the party is not doing enough to negotiate with Obama than those who say the party is doing too much.
Party leaders interviewed said the tea party's demands to defund the health care law — and the House leadership's willingness to follow suit — were distracting from what they said is the GOP's best strategy to recover from its 2012 losses: a focus on reducing long-term spending. They said defunding the health care law would not achieve that goal because the money was already flowing to the law.
"At the end of the day, you're fighting legislation that's already passed," said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson, describing the fight to defund the health care law as a lost cause.
Republican activists around the country also said in interviews that the shutdown — and House Republicans' demands — have deflected attention from problems with the launch of key parts to the health care bill.
Thousands of Americans were unable to shop for health insurance on the online marketplaces when they went live on Oct. 1 because of software glitches. And, these Republicans say, the GOP in Washington — and specifically tea party House members — got in the way of the troubled rollout, which the GOP could have seized on if the government were still open.
"We're not saying Obama is right. We're saying what Republicans are doing is wrong," said Matt Cox, a former executive director of Ohio's Cuyahoga County GOP. He said that instead of pursuing the shutdown strategy, Republicans in Washington could have passed — and taken credit for — a spending measure that kept dollar levels at those set by the automatic $1.2 trillion across-the-board cut approved last year, also called the sequester.
Generally, these Republicans said that because of the tea party's effort to defund the health care law, the Republican Party had missed an opportunity to hammer Obama after he hit a rough patch over Syria just a month ago.
Former Illinois state Sen. Laura Douglas wants to believe that the holdouts can win. But she has her doubts.
"My heart says, 'Keep fighting, don't give up,'" said Douglas, a resident of Quincy in western Illinois. "But my head says, 'If we keep this kind of thing up, we're going to get creamed next year.'"
Her worries are reflected in the AP-GfK poll. Roughly three-quarters of Republicans nationally said their party in Congress deserves a moderate degree or most of the blame for the shutdown.
Even among Republicans, those who don't support the tea party mostly disapprove of how the GOP is handling the budget issue. Just 17 percent of Americans overall consider themselves tea party backers.
And tea party allies are fighting back.
The Senate Conservatives Fund, an independent political action committee, has run ads asking tea party supporters to recruit primary election opponents for Republicans who voted for a measure that would have kept the government running with modifications in the health care law.
In South Carolina, Fairfield County Republican Chairman Kevin Thomas is among those on the side of tea party lawmakers.
"The only leverage we have is the budget," he said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/republicans-tea-party-government-shutdown_n_4083790.html
DES MOINES, Iowa -- DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington.
The Republican establishment also is signaling a willingness to strike back at the tea party in next fall's elections.
"It's time for someone to act like a grown-up in this process," former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu argues, faulting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party Republicans in the House as much as President Barack Obama for taking an uncompromising stance.
Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is just as pointed, saying this about the tea party-fueled refusal to support spending measures that include money for Obama's health care law: "It never had a chance."
The anger emanating from Republicans like Sununu and Barbour comes just three years after the GOP embraced the insurgent political group and rode its wave of new energy to return to power in the House.
Now, they're lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they're laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.
Iowa Republicans are recruiting a pro-business Republican to challenge six-term conservative Rep. Steve King, a leader in the push to defund the health care law. Disgruntled Republicans are further ahead in Michigan, where second-term, tea party-backed Rep. Justin Amash is facing a Republican primary challenger who is more in line with — and being encouraged by — the party establishment. And business interest groups, long aligned with the Republican Party, also are threatening to recruit and fund strong challengers to tea party House members.
Tea party backers are undeterred and assail party leaders.
"They keep compromising," said Katrina Pierson, a former Dallas-area tea party organizer now challenging Rep. Pete Sessions of Texas in the 2014 GOP primary. "They all campaigned on fiscal responsibility. They just need to do what they campaigned on."
In more than a dozen interviews, Republican leaders, officials and strategists at all levels of the party blamed Obama for the shutdown but also faulted tea party lawmakers in the House, who have insisted that any deal to reopen the government be contingent on stripping money for the health care law.
An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed why these party loyalists are so concerned: More Republicans told pollsters that the GOP is mishandling the shutdown than is handling it well. And among those who say it's being poorly handled, twice as many Republicans say the party is not doing enough to negotiate with Obama than those who say the party is doing too much.
Party leaders interviewed said the tea party's demands to defund the health care law — and the House leadership's willingness to follow suit — were distracting from what they said is the GOP's best strategy to recover from its 2012 losses: a focus on reducing long-term spending. They said defunding the health care law would not achieve that goal because the money was already flowing to the law.
"At the end of the day, you're fighting legislation that's already passed," said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson, describing the fight to defund the health care law as a lost cause.
Republican activists around the country also said in interviews that the shutdown — and House Republicans' demands — have deflected attention from problems with the launch of key parts to the health care bill.
Thousands of Americans were unable to shop for health insurance on the online marketplaces when they went live on Oct. 1 because of software glitches. And, these Republicans say, the GOP in Washington — and specifically tea party House members — got in the way of the troubled rollout, which the GOP could have seized on if the government were still open.
"We're not saying Obama is right. We're saying what Republicans are doing is wrong," said Matt Cox, a former executive director of Ohio's Cuyahoga County GOP. He said that instead of pursuing the shutdown strategy, Republicans in Washington could have passed — and taken credit for — a spending measure that kept dollar levels at those set by the automatic $1.2 trillion across-the-board cut approved last year, also called the sequester.
Generally, these Republicans said that because of the tea party's effort to defund the health care law, the Republican Party had missed an opportunity to hammer Obama after he hit a rough patch over Syria just a month ago.
Former Illinois state Sen. Laura Douglas wants to believe that the holdouts can win. But she has her doubts.
"My heart says, 'Keep fighting, don't give up,'" said Douglas, a resident of Quincy in western Illinois. "But my head says, 'If we keep this kind of thing up, we're going to get creamed next year.'"
Her worries are reflected in the AP-GfK poll. Roughly three-quarters of Republicans nationally said their party in Congress deserves a moderate degree or most of the blame for the shutdown.
Even among Republicans, those who don't support the tea party mostly disapprove of how the GOP is handling the budget issue. Just 17 percent of Americans overall consider themselves tea party backers.
And tea party allies are fighting back.
The Senate Conservatives Fund, an independent political action committee, has run ads asking tea party supporters to recruit primary election opponents for Republicans who voted for a measure that would have kept the government running with modifications in the health care law.
In South Carolina, Fairfield County Republican Chairman Kevin Thomas is among those on the side of tea party lawmakers.
"The only leverage we have is the budget," he said.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Obama?
timschochet
Footballguy
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/328205-house-gop-furious-with-senate
Apparently the House GOP is furious with Senate Republicans for brokering a deal with Obama. Paul Ryan is especially fuming because he expected to be the "white knight" to come in and save the day here (furthering his own Presidential ambitions, perhaps.) Ryan said the House will not accept the Susan Collins plan, and this was echoed by several angry Tea Party members.
But both Politico and The Hill indicated that if the Senate and Obama do reach an agreement, Boehner will almost certainly put it up for a vote, and it will likely pass. If, however, Obama and the Senate Republicans cannot reach an agreement on Collins' proposal, then we're right back where we started, with Thursday as the deadline date.
Apparently the House GOP is furious with Senate Republicans for brokering a deal with Obama. Paul Ryan is especially fuming because he expected to be the "white knight" to come in and save the day here (furthering his own Presidential ambitions, perhaps.) Ryan said the House will not accept the Susan Collins plan, and this was echoed by several angry Tea Party members.
But both Politico and The Hill indicated that if the Senate and Obama do reach an agreement, Boehner will almost certainly put it up for a vote, and it will likely pass. If, however, Obama and the Senate Republicans cannot reach an agreement on Collins' proposal, then we're right back where we started, with Thursday as the deadline date.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Tim, the problem is you have such a hard on for the Tea Party that you have lost all objectivity in this thread. You are like a doll with one of those pull strings in its back that can only say three different phrases.
The bottom line is there are no winners or losers here (well, other than the American people losing again). A deal will get done. Both sides will claim they won something or got something done. Americans, with their attention spans of gnats, will move on to the next subject and a year from now we will be discussing the next big political "thing".
CNN/ORC poll from earlier this week:
63% of those polled were angry at the GOP
57% of those polled were equally angry at the Dems
53% of those polled also blamed the President.
These numbers were also echoed by a Pew poll.
The WSJ/NBC Poll and many,many others have waaayy different numbers that were extremely damning to the GOP. See how each side can cherry pick their numbers to substantiate their legitimacy or their position?
And keep this quote in mind from ABC News:
"Overall, views now look very much like those after the government shutdowns in 1995-96. In ABC/Post polling in January 1996, Bill Clinton had a 42-50 percent score for handling the situation, the Republicans in Congress 20-74 percent. Neither seemed to much impact the 1996 election 10 months later, in which Clinton won re-election but the Republicans held the House and Senate alike"
I know you are hoping with all your might that this is some kind of continuing mandate, but this country has been down this road before and in the grand scheme of our political history, this is nothing but a blip.
The bottom line is there are no winners or losers here (well, other than the American people losing again). A deal will get done. Both sides will claim they won something or got something done. Americans, with their attention spans of gnats, will move on to the next subject and a year from now we will be discussing the next big political "thing".
CNN/ORC poll from earlier this week:
63% of those polled were angry at the GOP
57% of those polled were equally angry at the Dems
53% of those polled also blamed the President.
These numbers were also echoed by a Pew poll.
The WSJ/NBC Poll and many,many others have waaayy different numbers that were extremely damning to the GOP. See how each side can cherry pick their numbers to substantiate their legitimacy or their position?
And keep this quote in mind from ABC News:
"Overall, views now look very much like those after the government shutdowns in 1995-96. In ABC/Post polling in January 1996, Bill Clinton had a 42-50 percent score for handling the situation, the Republicans in Congress 20-74 percent. Neither seemed to much impact the 1996 election 10 months later, in which Clinton won re-election but the Republicans held the House and Senate alike"
I know you are hoping with all your might that this is some kind of continuing mandate, but this country has been down this road before and in the grand scheme of our political history, this is nothing but a blip.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Rush Limbaugh on Tuesday, after AP reports that Obama's approval rating was at 37%:
This just goes to show what I have been saying all along: despite all the hopes of the drive by media, conservatives are winning this fight!
Rush Limbaugh on Friday, after the NBC/WSJ poll, among others, reports that Republican's approval rating is at 21%, and Obama's had actually risen since September to 47%:
I think the poll's bogus. I think it's not an actively representative, truthfully representative sample...and another point that I have made over and over again is that polling has simply become a cheap way to make the news you want to report. That's all it is. Polling is no longer a reflection of public opinion; polling is the creation of public opinion. Polling is an effort to manipulate and move public opinion.
This just goes to show what I have been saying all along: despite all the hopes of the drive by media, conservatives are winning this fight!
Rush Limbaugh on Friday, after the NBC/WSJ poll, among others, reports that Republican's approval rating is at 21%, and Obama's had actually risen since September to 47%:
I think the poll's bogus. I think it's not an actively representative, truthfully representative sample...and another point that I have made over and over again is that polling has simply become a cheap way to make the news you want to report. That's all it is. Polling is no longer a reflection of public opinion; polling is the creation of public opinion. Polling is an effort to manipulate and move public opinion.
timschochet
Footballguy
Court Jester, you were one of the handful of conservatives in this forum that criticized what the House was doing when this crisis first started, and I respect you greatly for that. Of course I am biased against the Tea Party. Of course I want them to be discredited and repudiated. So I am hopeful that happens. If it does not, it does not.
I am opposed to the Democrats' economic policies as a general rule. I would like a centrist, moderate Republican party which continued to press for free trade, slashing corporate tax rates, reforming entitlements, making it easier for start up companies and technologies with less red tape restrictions, but also is more open to immigration concerns, social issues, and in general is able to compromise with the other side to achieve big things. In order to have the sort of political party I would support, the Tea Party people have to be defeated.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Imagine that, he sounds just like you Tim when you are given a poll diametrically opposed with your beliefs.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think the poll Court Jester posted was perfectly reasonable. I was extremely surprised (though delighted) by the NBC/WSJ poll that came out Thursday night.You see, JoJo, unlike Rush and other conservatives (and for that matter many progressives as well) I don't always assume the public is on "my side" of things. In fact, quite the opposite.
cstu
Footballguy
I'm usually shocked when polls agree with me.
You see, JoJo, unlike Rush and other conservatives (and for that matter many progressives as well) I don't always assume the public is on "my side" of things. In fact, quite the opposite.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Okay, without using your opinion, which political party actually won something here? I mean, unless you have a crystal ball and can tell us what the results are of the mid-terms some 13 months in advance.
However, as I posted above, it is clear we as Americans are losing on many levels as this impasses continues.
Fennis
Footballguy
what is your approval rating these days?I'm usually shocked when polls agree with me.
You see, JoJo, unlike Rush and other conservatives (and for that matter many progressives as well) I don't always assume the public is on "my side" of things. In fact, quite the opposite.
