Goat Herders
Footballguy
Chris, those of us who do our research know you are dead on. Roy is the real deal.HERD
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The Tech 2004 NFl Mock Draft (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr.Happy
- Start date
aardball44
Footballguy
Thanks, Happy, for putting this together.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Ken Dorsey was an "average" QB at Miami? Wow, tough crowd...HERD
Jason Wood
Zoo York
What about having an average QB, an average coach and a conservative rushing focused offense?Cheers
In NFL terms. You probably noticed by now I feel very strongly about "The Legend" and how he will do in the NFL. He could explode like Moss, or fizzle away.I have argued this fact with others before, and the arguments can get pretty heated. Ken Dorsey was a GREAT "college" QB but in the NFL terms Ken has not compared to the talent around him. That is what I meant to say and I should have clarified it. Lets agree to disagree and we will meet back here in 3 years.
I am thinking along the lines of what Rogers did at Michigan when I talk about Roy. My main argument is that talent will shine through depending on the circumstances.We will see how Roy does. He has great talent, but I am not alone in the feeling that his career path will mirror Plaxico and the whispers of "soft" will haunt Roy.Again, we will see how Mr. Williams does. I say it like I see it and I hope he proves me wrong.
djcolt said
I've seen several mocks that have them picking Jonathan Vilma Miami 6'2" 220 . Supossedly he can play any of the lb positions in the nfl. It seems like he's small to play the middle, where most Coltfans think we are weakest. I read somewhere though that he's about the same size as Ray Lewis was when he came out. I did a lot searching but couldn't substaniate that. He's definetlly high energy. But, Nathan Vasher Texas 5'11" 180 (corner) seems to be the most popular pick so far for the Colts. Sure do miss not having Draft Muncher available. He seems like a good fit for the Colts D. Little small, but good cover corner. Tough and is good in the run support. A play maker.
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Goat Herders
Footballguy
I certainly understand your criticims of Roy. If you don't care for the guy, so be it. But comparing him to Plaxico Burress is downright confusing. They have literally NOTHING in common. As for the QB comparison, I see what you are saying but there is nothing on earth to suggest Chris Simms/Chance Mock/ Vincent Young are better then Dorsey at any level, college of pro.HERD
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I'm not sold on Roy yet either, but I happen to think Mack Brown is about as bad a major college coach as it gets. You have to practically create ways to lose 2 or more games a year at UT. If only they would let Brown recruit but someone manage the team on gameday.
I also agree with whoever said that Larry Fitz would never fall that low. I don't think he's coming out, but if he does he'll go top 3, if not to one of those teams then via a trade up. Kiper said Fitz is the only player who could unseat Manning and BenRoth from the top spot.Cheers
Significant Shrinkage
Footballguy
Mr Happy-This is as good as some pay sites. Great job!!Side Note: See, when someone posts something insightful, the sharks are very complimentary 
Shooter McGavin
Down the middle
Although I have little faith in Matt Millen's ability to do something right, if he's still available, I would like to see Sean Taylor go to the Lions. Roll the dice with Stewart and Pinner, along with a later-round RB pick, and pick up a defensive cornerstone instead of reaching for a RB. Lord knows the Lions have problems beyond their RB talent (like the interior O-Line that allowed opposing teams to just about take the handoff from Joey a lot of the time), and getting a playmaker in the secondary would be ideal.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Well, it helps that a) it's the postseason and the ranks are a bit thinner and b) a few of the more notorious flamers have been put on hiatus in the last few weeks.CheersMr Happy-This is as good as some pay sites. Great job!!Side Note: See, when someone posts something insightful, the sharks are very complimentary
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Let me add my thanks to Happy for his work. I haven't posted here until now, but have been following the thread with interest. And while I'm at it - and since I'm quoting a JW post - thanks to the Woodmeister for all he adds to the board. I haven't been myself the past couple days (home with the flu bug - probably why I've made a couple of pissy-attitude posts lately), and it's nice to pass the time enjoying others' thoughts on America's #2 contact sport. PS: If you don't know what #1 is, you need to get out of your chair and pay a visit to your wife or GF.Oh, I almost forgot... something sorta relevant to the topic. It seems to me the debate over which RB will be taken first - Jackson or Jones - depends on Detroit. Mooch needs a pass-catcher in his system, so if they go RB in round 1, I think Jackson goes first. I'll be interested to know if that makes sense to anyone, and whether you think Pit, Dal, NE, TB - if each had their choice - would pick Jackson or Jones, and why.Well, it helps that a) it's the postseason and the ranks are a bit thinner and b) a few of the more notorious flamers have been put on hiatus in the last few weeks.CheersMr Happy-This is as good as some pay sites. Great job!!Side Note: See, when someone posts something insightful, the sharks are very complimentary
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Yep. I've also seen him not even bother to reach for balls that were thrown below his waist. I've also seen him standing on the sidelines with a tight hammy while his team drove down the field and scored the winning TD. The guy has serious flexibility issues and can't even touch his own toes. One of the main knocks on him is that he always seems to be nursing some minor injury.I also wonder why the guy didn't enter the draft last year. He was projected as a top 10 pick. I like my receivers to be confident and I think that you have to question a guy's desire when he knows that he pretty much can't improve his draft stock and yet he still doesn't try to go to the next level (the NFL). Roy has talent. There's no question about it. His strength is making the big play and that ability could make him huge in fantasy football. However, I also feel that he has pretty big bust potential and that anyone taking him where he'll go in rookie drafts is rolling the dice. I think Roy can be an impact player in the NFL because of his deep speed and size, but I don't see him as being as complete a prospect as some of the other top college WR's in recent years.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Just off the top of my head, based purely on style, I understand that everyone thinks that Jackson catches better than Jones, but I don't think that Jones necessarily has bad hands. I think Jackson is more of a Ricky Williams North-South not super fast RB and that Jones is more of a LT2 or Duece speed and vision back. I think Jones will be better in the NFL. Looking at the 4 teams you mentioned, I can see PIT being split between the bruiser Jackson and the speedy Jones, DAL definately liking Jackson better, NE liking Jones better to put to rest the Faulk/Cloud experiment of finding someone quicker than Smith, and TB being split, but choosing Jackson in a pinch.
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
It might seem insignificant and it may turn out to be just that, but it's the type of subtle detail that I notice. He showed that he could play very well at the college level and also played on some pretty successful teams. Yet even with that and the knowledge that he would be a high pick, he didn't leave for the NFL. I like it when receivers have the attitude that they are ready and that they can beat the best (NFL corners). Roy's decision to stay in school tells me that he might lack a little confidence. Instead of taking his game to the next level, he stayed in his comfort zone.Again, such a little detail is probably insignificant, but I try to consider everything when evaluating a player.
Outside Contain
Footballguy
Great work Mr. Happy. I apprechiate it... 
This is one of the GREATEST quotes I have seen on this board for a while.
Talk about making your point on the guy with some style!! This type of player analysis has a quality that Kiper and others can only dream about. . .Nice mock. Some good things to think about. Now, HERD's version 2.0 is up. ahh, mock draft and NFL draft season is here.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
EBF, he came back because he wanted to (a) show he could make it through a whole season uninjured (b) beat Okalahoma and © BE THE FIRST PLAYER SELECETED. He succeeded in (A), lost (B) and won't achieve ©, but kudos to a guy for having lofty goals.HERD
Great Blue North just released its newest first round mock as well. Just thought the board would be interested: http://www.gbnreport.com/2004projection.htme
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Looks like Udeze is officially entering the draft, so Mr. Happy's mock is alive and well!
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1702630
Cheers
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1702630
Cheers
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Well, I like that GBN assumes the Birds get to the Super Bowl, but I don't like that they assume we'll lose to NE.
CheersI am planning to do an obvious follow up to this mock in the future with time TBD.Every day, I feel more and more that the Broncos and Titans will switch picks with the Broncos taking Will Poole/DeAngelo Hall and the Titans taking OLB Carlos Dansby who will help the Titans weaknesses at covering the TE and running back out of the backfield.One thing to note is that I have gotten some feedback from Miami fans and they love the thought of trade down and a draft of a leader like Rivers in the 1st and an OL in the 2nd. Miami will end up cutting Griese will solve 70% of their current cap issues as he was given a very large contract to begin with. Miami will obviously NOT let Rivers start and will end up signing a mobile QB to compensate for the OL deficiencies.Will the Eagles take a WR? I strongly believe that Miami will bring in a guy like Northcutt and draft defense. Many players on the Eagles defense will be gone and it won't be surprising to see the Eagles got 1-2-3 with all being defense. The 140 yards rushing allowed a game is a frightening statistic. Miami is winning in spite of it, but only because of a great pass defense and excellent calls on defense. Once Bobby Taylor and/or Vincent leave(s), the Eagles defense will be in serious trouble. Again, this teams draft decisions will heavily depend on what they do with all that extra cap money in free agency.Ben Troupe is very, very, VERY good. This guy is going to be a player in the NFL. I think in any other draft he would be taken around the 15th slot, but because of Winslow and the top heavy talent, he will fall. Whoever gets him may be getting a TE who is more or a complete TE then just a receiving threat. I think Winslow's career will end up like a very good Randy McMichael. Excellent receiver, average blocker, problem mouth.
These people need to watch the games and stop playing fantasy football.Burning Sensation
Footballguy
5 Rb's in the first round is HIGHLY unlikely.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Agreed...GBN is no better than a group of us getting together and doing a mock for our favorite squads. I look at them every year and can't remember a time when they seemed to have an edge over conventional opinion.Cheers
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Apparently the Chargers are shopping Drew Brees. Maybe they'll go with a QB after all. I can't say I blame them.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I read that in Sports Weekly, it's a wonder if they'll get much for Brees though. He was a 2nd rounder, I can't see anyone giving them much more than a 3rd rounder since they have to eat his contract.Cheers
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Yea, I agree. I still think it's significant because it shows that they don't see him as their QB of the future. There was some thought that they might give him one more year to prove himself, but now that appears unlikely.
If this is true, then this changes the entire complexion of the draft.They would probebly take Big Ben, which would end with the Raiders taking Eli and the Cards left out on the track. Cards may end up taking Tommy Harris or Udeze to compensate.However, I can't see how anyone would take Brees unless the deal is sweet. If the Chargers still have Brees on draft day, then the chances will be slim to non that the Chargers take a QB with the 1st overall.
I really don't mean to pick this apart because it's not my intention but I just felt I HAD to reply to some of these comments...I usually don't post to the mock draft threads because it usually ends in an argument of who's the best pick, etc...but wanted to share my insight on a subject I feel I have a great deal of knowledge about...here we go.First things first, Dansby himself needs to improve his coverage skills before he can excel at the next level so I don't see how he can improve the Titans LB corps (coverage wise). Dansby is very good blitzing and against the run but lacks good coverage skills. Overall, he's not as good as Jonathan Vilma (who will be an OLB in the NFL) or DJ Williams.Secondly, if Miami does infact decide on drafting Phillip Rivers, they probably would not trade down. They would then run the risk of him not being there when their next pick comes up as most scouts feel Rivers can go as high as 17 and as low as the 2nd round. Also, Miami does not have a 2nd round pick this year and most certainly wont receive one by trading their 20th pick for someones 24th (for example). No one will give a first and a second to move up 4 spots at the END of the first round. The best bet for Miami is to tender Adawale Ogunleye, let someone else come sign him as a RFA..get a first round pick for him and then have 2 first rounders. That enables them flexibility to go Rivers/WR or Rivers/OL. Personally I'd rather see them go Rivers/WR and wait till the 3rd round to get an OL. Typically the only OL that can step in right away and produce are top10 picks. Not picks 25-50. They need to address the OL through free agency, it would take too long through the draft without a top 10 pick.Lastly, I agree that Ben Troupe is VERY VERY good and he is going to be a stud in the NFL. However, he is not Kellen Winslow. Winslow is a better overall tight end. There is a reason he will be drafted as high as he will, scouts don't waste top 10 picks on TEs unless they know they're a lock. There's a reason Jeremy Shockey went in the 1st and McMichael in the 4th. To say he would be a good McMichael is not fair to Winslow. And to say he is an average blocker shows that maybe you haven't seen a UM game all season. He is an INCREDIBLE blocker for a TE and gives 110% on every play no matter if he is getting the ball or not, contrary to what many believe. Average might be the understatement of the year...the guy has WR speed with a TE body..Just some of my opinions...look forward to some more mocks, they're fun to read and argue over..
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Winslow's attitude problems are overblown. He's a slight hothead, but he seems to work very hard and to have a genuine desire to win. Those are important qualities in a pass catcher. He certainly has the confidence you look for and when I've watched Miami play, Winslow has gone all out. Did you see their bowl game? Berlin threw a pick and the defender was making a nice return. All of a sudden someone came in and leveled him. Who was it? Winslow. Also, that he actually asks to be on the punt block team shows that he genuinely wants to make plays and help his team win. In short, I actually feel like he has a good attitude and that it will only help his chances of being an impact player in the NFL.
I appreciate responses like this as they give me a chance to validate my picks.1. The Titans DO have a need for OLB. I mentioned it already that the Titans real issue was coverage. Dansby is good in coverage, but he wasn't picked in my first mock for a reason. The Titans pick may end up to be OL for all we know. But what I do know is that these playoff games the Titans are involved in which heavily determine the direction the Titans go. If they get exposed in one point or another, then emphasis will be put on fixing that one point. If McNair gets sacked 5-6 times, then OL. If Kevin Faulk, Edge, Gonzo, Pollard, or Graham get over 100 yards receiving, then OLB. Right now, I am looking at the Titans being 30th ranked vs. the pass. Much of that is garbage time passing yardage, but take away the garbage time and it might rise up to 15, which is still not the greatest for a playoff team who will be facing pro-bowl QBs in the playoffs.2. Excellent point on the worth of draft picks. Miami is in a very uncomfortable situation right now. I thought about Vernon Carry to the Dolphins, but in the end, I felt the GM would make a splash and grab a guy like Rivers. The Dolphins will most likely go OL in free agency, and draft Rivers because they would face hell for letting a talent and leader like Rivers slip through their hands.3. Winslow on the blocking department. I have watched Miami games, and of the ones I have seen, the DL is getting great pressure on QB. Also, I mentioned I discussed this draft with others, and I read up on Winslow. The perception was he was a receiver, and that his 235/240 lb body might struggle to block NFL size DEs. I made the comparison to McMichael because well, McMicheal is a #### good receiver and his body size is very similar to Winslow. I agree his doesn't have nearly the talent as Kellen, but they both are lighter then the usual TE and more of a receiver. Also, I never said Kellen was lazy, just a big mouth
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I know every person is different, but Miami rolls out the solid pro prospects unlike any team in recent memory, so I'm all in favor of Winslow until proven otherwise. Think of all the Canes that were not only drafted into the NFL, but have been very productive players. Shockey and Franks are two of the better TEs in the league today, and Shockey mentored Winslow (along with his dad, who I heard knows a thing or two about the position
). You've got Canes all over
re JohnsonJ. McDougle
W. McGahee
W. Joseph
A. Williams
J. Green
K. Dorsey
B. McKinnie
J. Shockey
P. Buchanon
E. Reed
M. Rumph
C. Portis
M. Bibla
N. Davenport
D. Morgan
S. Moss
R. Wayne
J. Jackson
A. King
B. Franks
N. Webster
E. James
D. Starks
K. Lang
K. Holmes
R. Lewis
W. Sapp
M. Barrow
J. ArmsteadJust crazy
Cheers
We will see.I have talked to a couple Titans fans and they during the playoffs that their biggest fear is a runningback out of the backfield or a TE. And when I say couple, I mean about 10-15 Titans fans. They know what they see and I haved watched the Ravens game, Miami game, Patriots game, and Raiders game to get a feel what they might need.Lets agree to disagree here, but I am not alone in the feel that the Titans will go defense and pick a guy who can do a number of things to help the rest of the team cover.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Haven't the Titans been firmly in the "best player available" camp if I'm not mistaken? That a) makes it very hard if not impossible to predict their early pick based on need and b) not out of the question that one of those LBs would be the best available at their spot.Cheers
Thanks for replying to my post...let me just give my 2cents on your responses...On Dansby, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I (and many of the top college scouts) feel that Dansby is week in pass coverage. I've seen him play several times this season against teams like Alabama, Wisconsin, LSU, USC, and Arkansas and saw him many times out of position in coverage. He is really good against the run and on the blitz but pass coverage is a problem...similar to the only roadblock Terrell Suggs is facing in the NFL.As far as Winslow, the reason the DL was able to put pressure on Berlin is because of incosistent play by the OL...that is all the coaches attributed it to. Vernon Carey is a standout big time player and will be good in the NFL. Eric Winston is a future star in the NFL as well but is only a sophomore. The rest of the line goes downhill. Carlos Joseph (brother of William Joseph, NY GIANT) is a converted DT to T and has never developed the footwork needed to play the position effectively. Joel Rodriguez has been below average at best as has Chris Myers. They have had so many injuries this season to that line that they have had to shuffle in true freshman at times...(something UM never does on the OL) Andrew Bain has played some..Chris Nappoli, etc. To blame the pressure on the QB on Winslow is not fair especially considering he is out running routes on obvious passing situations. Everyone knows obvious passing situations is when the QB gets the real pressure.As far as him being lighter than the average TE, that is not true. He is 6'5" 250. He is bigger than Tony Gonzalez, Wesley Walls and is the same size as Shockey and Heap (give or take a coulpe pounds). He is also actually not the same size as McMichael, Kellen is 2 inches taller.Looking forward to the next mock...good reading...
eakfootball
Footballguy
Imagine how different the league would be if the draft went like this.
