The week that sealed a "great and historic presidency and a turnin (1 Viewer)

[Todd Andrews]

It's hard for me to picture a country enjoying the benefits of universal health coverage (and other social progresses) 50 years from now looking back on Reagan's terms with any real affection.

Reagan brought the religious right into mainstream politics, gave weapons to terrorists/Iran, and then turned tail and ran away when over 200 Marines were slaughtered.

Reagan was a giant steaming terd.

Says the forum's self-proclaimed moderate. Keep up the good work.

I never said I was a moderate. I am a lifelong independent.

 

[Koya]

Let's be honest - history is written by the winners and often without context. So, when the history e-readers cover this presidency, one that began with naïveté that bordered on stupidity (you don't just give a nice speech and knock down the walls of DCs insider game), an utter lack of touch with the real focus of the electorate (the economy stupid) and such poor performance that only the Republicans could lose the midterm elections, Obama has:

- Become the first African American president (and first born in Kenya, to boot!)

- Led us out the of depths of the Great Recession to once again dominate the world economy

- Health care for all

- Marriage Rights for all

- significantly decreased our military combat footprint

I've said a bunch of times that I'm pretty happy with Obama's presidency overall. That said, there's nothing particularly "great and historic" about it. He gets credit for getting the ACA passed, killing UBL, and taking bipartisan ownership drone stikes, Gimo, etc. Those are all pretty solid accomplishments.

Obama had nothing to do with ending the great recession, in the same way that Bush had nothing to do with causing it. Presidents don't have much control over the state of the economy.

Obama also had nothing to do with getting gay marriage legalized. He opposed gay marriage (or said he did anyway) until his VP forced his hand on the topic. SCOTUS and state-level activists deserve credit for this, not Obama.

Not sure where you're getting the "military footprint" thing from. I assume you're thinking of winding down the Iraq war -- on Bush's timeline -- and our presence in Afghanistan. On the other hand, Obama has killed many more people with drone strikes than Bush ever did. That's in my "reasons why I like Obama" column, so it's kind of weird to see the inverse of that in somebody else's "reasons why I like Obama" list. Maybe we both agree that Obama deserves praise for maintaining a strong military response where appropriate, but still keeping it nimble and minimalist instead of massive invasions.

Again, my point here is not about the actual successes nor how much Obama really enabled them to occur.

I AM talking about the historic lens through which Obamas presidency will be viewed, and, in some ways like reagan, Obamas historic shadow isnlikely to far surpass the actual reality of his presidency. Too many historic milestones to get in the way of actual facts and nuance.

 

[General Malaise]

Other things Obama really has nothing to do with that has happened during his presidency is the cultural mindshift on recreational marijuana. Had Colorado et al attempted to legalize weed during the Bush era, I would bet dollars to donuts his administration would have gone borneo and used all force possible to shut that down. IIRC, his attitude toward medical marijuana in California was not one of support.

Obama hasn't done anything to slow down the legalization and for that, I applaud him.

Oh, and did we mention the fact that gays can now serve openly in our military? That happened on his watch too. That's awesome. Great time to be a US Citizen IMO.

 

[cstu]

Other things Obama really has nothing to do with that has happened during his presidency is the cultural mindshift on recreational marijuana. Had Colorado et al attempted to legalize weed during the Bush era, I would bet dollars to donuts his administration would have gone borneo and used all force possible to shut that down. IIRC, his attitude toward medical marijuana in California was not one of support.

Obama hasn't done anything to slow down the legalization and for that, I applaud him.

Oh, and did we mention the fact that gays can now serve openly in our military? That happened on his watch too. That's awesome. Great time to be a US Citizen IMO.

That's a huge factor. While he doesn't directly deserve the credit for all of these things he has created an atmosphere in the country that welcomes serious debate.

 

[Power Monster]

Great? Well if you are one that worships at the alter of collectivism then greatness is certainly a cogent perspective. For freedom loving Americans this is a true disaster. The attack on the individual in favor of the state is in full motion and has been circumventing since daddy Bush ran his neocon con snowballing straight thru silly Billy's charismatic "leadership" and well into Bush junior's unholy carnage. Obama has put the icing in the cake and has served up more smoking mirrors, deception and despotic shenanigans. The Keynesian economic strategy continues to roll along like a zombie out of control driving debt into the trillions with zero accountability. As the living presidents feed at the trough of deception, our well regulated democracy spirals head long towards the goal of global unification. Big pharma, Hollyweird, a lying media and BigAg continue to serve as the tools of distraction while academia literally brainwashes the foolish ones to throw away their freedoms. At the center of it all is the twisted fiat money system and the dogma of religion. Freedom lovers beware. Detroit, California and Chicago serve notice as to what is coming. And for our esteemed Mr. President - great job dividing class, race, social and free market spaces. Greatness...

 

[roadkill1292]

Tell me more about this global unification.

 

[Christo]

Tell me more about this global unification.

What about the smoking mirrors?

 

[NCCommish]

Tell me more about this global unification.

What about the smoking mirrors?

They really add atmosphere to a room.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

My mirrors vape

 

[trogg78]

Great? Well if you are one that worships at the alter of collectivism then greatness is certainly a cogent perspective. For freedom loving Americans this is a true disaster. The attack on the individual in favor of the state is in full motion and has been circumventing since daddy Bush ran his neocon con snowballing straight thru silly Billy's charismatic "leadership" and well into Bush junior's unholy carnage. Obama has put the icing in the cake and has served up more smoking mirrors, deception and despotic shenanigans. The Keynesian economic strategy continues to roll along like a zombie out of control driving debt into the trillions with zero accountability. As the living presidents feed at the trough of deception, our well regulated democracy spirals head long towards the goal of global unification. Big pharma, Hollyweird, a lying media and BigAg continue to serve as the tools of distraction while academia literally brainwashes the foolish ones to throw away their freedoms. At the center of it all is the twisted fiat money system and the dogma of religion. Freedom lovers beware. Detroit, California and Chicago serve notice as to what is coming. And for our esteemed Mr. President - great job dividing class, race, social and free market spaces. Greatness...

Education seems to still be a problem.

 

[NCCommish]

My mirrors vape

Very cutting edge

 

[Power Monster]

Great? Well if you are one that worships at the alter of collectivism then greatness is certainly a cogent perspective. For freedom loving Americans this is a true disaster. The attack on the individual in favor of the state is in full motion and has been circumventing since daddy Bush ran his neocon con snowballing straight thru silly Billy's charismatic "leadership" and well into Bush junior's unholy carnage. Obama has put the icing in the cake and has served up more smoking mirrors, deception and despotic shenanigans. The Keynesian economic strategy continues to roll along like a zombie out of control driving debt into the trillions with zero accountability. As the living presidents feed at the trough of deception, our well regulated democracy spirals head long towards the goal of global unification. Big pharma, Hollyweird, a lying media and BigAg continue to serve as the tools of distraction while academia literally brainwashes the foolish ones to throw away their freedoms. At the center of it all is the twisted fiat money system and the dogma of religion. Freedom lovers beware. Detroit, California and Chicago serve notice as to what is coming. And for our esteemed Mr. President - great job dividing class, race, social and free market spaces. Greatness...

Education seems to still be a problem.

Yeah check it out sometime. As a matter of fact, you can probably educate yourself and side step the indoctrination these days unless you drink the koolaide from the talking heads.

 

[Power Monster]

Tell me more about this global unification.

You don't need me to tell you about anything but feel free to turn on your local media outlet or even a national media outlet. No shortage of globalist collectivism w either of these fine choices. Heck, they usually come replete with some fake model that you can stare at while the stream of propaganda comes belching forth. Enjoy...

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Other things Obama really has nothing to do with that has happened during his presidency is the cultural mindshift on recreational marijuana. Had Colorado et al attempted to legalize weed during the Bush era, I would bet dollars to donuts his administration would have gone borneo and used all force possible to shut that down. IIRC, his attitude toward medical marijuana in California was not one of support.

Obama hasn't done anything to slow down the legalization and for that, I applaud him.

Oh, and did we mention the fact that gays can now serve openly in our military? That happened on his watch too. That's awesome. Great time to be a US Citizen IMO.

I think Bush gets a bad rap for this. I don't recall him doing anything particularly bad when it came to medical marijuana, aside from a few token nods to the War on Drugs, which probably was more about other folks in his administration as opposed to Bush himself.

Let's see what Hillary does with this. My guess is that she actively supports prohibition. She's always been a "law and order" type, like her husband.

 

[Riversco]

Obama is not a great president because he will exit with his party in a much weaker position than when he arrived.

If you told the republicans after the 2008 election that 8 years later, Obama would be eternally suffering from approval ratings under 50% and that the GOP would have complete control of congress again, they'd say you're dreaming. They would sell their souls to make that deal. That would be an absolute best case scenario for them.

No. That's a stupid criteria for judging the competence of an administration. Not quite as stupid as Todd Andrews's suggestion that we judge it based on election margin of victory, but still pretty bad.

When you think about it though, this is what they are elected to do. They are elected to sell the public on their vision of America, which means growing their party's power base. He hasn't done that. There's no better proof that you've sold the people on what your mission is than if you leave office with large healthy majorities in congress and great approval ratings. Otherwise, you question if he was more just a default candidate among options that weren't very good.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Obama is not a great president because he will exit with his party in a much weaker position than when he arrived.

If you told the republicans after the 2008 election that 8 years later, Obama would be eternally suffering from approval ratings under 50% and that the GOP would have complete control of congress again, they'd say you're dreaming. They would sell their souls to make that deal. That would be an absolute best case scenario for them.

No. That's a stupid criteria for judging the competence of an administration. Not quite as stupid as Todd Andrews's suggestion that we judge it based on election margin of victory, but still pretty bad.

When you think about it though, this is what they are elected to do. They are elected to sell the public on their vision of America, which means growing their party's power base. He hasn't done that. There's no better proof that you've sold the people on what your mission is than if you leave office with large healthy majorities in congress and great approval ratings. Otherwise, you question if he was more just a default candidate among options that weren't very good.

BINGO!

 

[njherdfan]

Other things Obama really has nothing to do with that has happened during his presidency is the cultural mindshift on recreational marijuana. Had Colorado et al attempted to legalize weed during the Bush era, I would bet dollars to donuts his administration would have gone borneo and used all force possible to shut that down. IIRC, his attitude toward medical marijuana in California was not one of support.

Obama hasn't done anything to slow down the legalization and for that, I applaud him.

Oh, and did we mention the fact that gays can now serve openly in our military? That happened on his watch too. That's awesome. Great time to be a US Citizen IMO.

I think Bush gets a bad rap for this. I don't recall him doing anything particularly bad when it came to medical marijuana, aside from a few token nods to the War on Drugs, which probably was more about other folks in his administration as opposed to Bush himself.

Let's see what Hillary does with this. My guess is that she actively supports prohibition. She's always been a "law and order" type, like her husband.

I think she's more of a "support what is popular at the moment" type, so I think she'll favor decriminalization of marijuana.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Quick list of Presidents who've left with healthy majorities for their party in Congress?

 

[General Malaise]

Great? Well if you are one that worships at the alter of collectivism then greatness is certainly a cogent perspective. For freedom loving Americans this is a true disaster. The attack on the individual in favor of the state is in full motion and has been circumventing since daddy Bush ran his neocon con snowballing straight thru silly Billy's charismatic "leadership" and well into Bush junior's unholy carnage. Obama has put the icing in the cake and has served up more smoking mirrors, deception and despotic shenanigans. The Keynesian economic strategy continues to roll along like a zombie out of control driving debt into the trillions with zero accountability. As the living presidents feed at the trough of deception, our well regulated democracy spirals head long towards the goal of global unification. Big pharma, Hollyweird, a lying media and BigAg continue to serve as the tools of distraction while academia literally brainwashes the foolish ones to throw away their freedoms. At the center of it all is the twisted fiat money system and the dogma of religion. Freedom lovers beware. Detroit, California and Chicago serve notice as to what is coming. And for our esteemed Mr. President - great job dividing class, race, social and free market spaces. Greatness...

Education seems to still be a problem.

Yeah check it out sometime. As a matter of fact, you can probably educate yourself and side step the indoctrination these days unless you drink the koolaide from the talking heads.

It's "Kool-Aid", BGP...."Kool-Aid".

And I just bought legal weed at a store, saluting an openly gay Marine who was in the parking lot with his gay civilian boyfriend, on their way into the strip mall church for a wedding. No freedoms? Screw off. Freedom of speech...I still have that, n'est pas?

 

[Riversco]

Quick list of Presidents who've left with healthy majorities for their party in Congress?

Its a short list. But if the question is to grade Obama's performance compared to other presidents, he's not among the greats. You can argue Obama did some things but it doesn't stack up to an FDR for example.

 

[General Malaise]

Other things Obama really has nothing to do with that has happened during his presidency is the cultural mindshift on recreational marijuana. Had Colorado et al attempted to legalize weed during the Bush era, I would bet dollars to donuts his administration would have gone borneo and used all force possible to shut that down. IIRC, his attitude toward medical marijuana in California was not one of support.

Obama hasn't done anything to slow down the legalization and for that, I applaud him.

Oh, and did we mention the fact that gays can now serve openly in our military? That happened on his watch too. That's awesome. Great time to be a US Citizen IMO.

I think Bush gets a bad rap for this. I don't recall him doing anything particularly bad when it came to medical marijuana, aside from a few token nods to the War on Drugs, which probably was more about other folks in his administration as opposed to Bush himself.

Let's see what Hillary does with this. My guess is that she actively supports prohibition. She's always been a "law and order" type, like her husband.

This is from 2002:

Bush’s Crackdown on Medical Marijuana
by Heidi Lypps
The month of September has seen a dramatic escalation of the War on Drugs in California, with DEA raids on two leading medical marijuana dispensaries. On September 5th, DEA agents arrested Valerie and Michael Corral of WAMM (Wo/Men’s alliance for Medical Marijuana) and destroyed 150 marijuana plants intended for use by WAMM’s members, most of whom are terminally ill. On September 12, the Petaluma-based Genesis 1:29 medical cannabis dispensary was raided, and Robert Schmidt, the owner, was arrested by the DEA. On the same day, the agents also raided a garden in Sebastopol, which supplied the Genesis dispensary.

These raids are only the most recent actions in an escalating DEA campaign directed at medical cannabis co-ops in California. The Petaluma and Santa Cruz co-ops were among California’s most carefully law-abiding: each required members to have a doctor’s prescription, issued ID cards, and worked with local officials to shape agreements and protocols for operation.

The passage of California’s Proposition 215 in 1996 legalized marijuana for medical use with a physician’s prescription, but any use of marijuana remains a federal crime. President Bush promised in a 2000 campaign speech to leave medical marijuana as a states’ rights issue, saying “I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose.” The DEA’s recent actions, however, speak louder than those words; some are calling it a “War on the sick”, saying that the DEA has gone too far in targeting those who supply medical marijuana to the ill in compliance with California law.

Despite state law, since 2001 many groups and individuals supplying medical cannabis in California have found themselves raided and imprisoned by the DEA. These include the Los Angeles Cannabis Resource Center, the Market Street Cannabis Club, CHAMPS, the Oakland Cannabis Resource Center, Santa Rosa’s Aiko Compassion Club, Steve and Michele Kubby, Ed Rosenthal, and others.

Hillary isn't going to advocate for prohibition. That house is wildly out of the barn and it ain't going back. Not where I live; not in this area of the country. I agree with the poster who said Hillary will lick her finger, stick it up in the air and let the wind sway her on where she resides on an issue.

 

[General Malaise]

Quick list of Presidents who've left with healthy majorities for their party in Congress?

Its a short list. But if the question is to grade Obama's performance compared to other presidents, he's not among the greats. You can argue Obama did some things but it doesn't stack up to an FDR for example.

And yet you'll get some here who think FDR was a massive failure.

 

[timschochet]

Agree with Rich, the ability to get majorities is not a good evaluation of a Presidency.

I don't believe Obama will be considered any better than average from a legislative POV. He's certainly no LBJ, more of a Woodrow Wilson in terms of his contempt for Congress. Let's look at his stated legislative agenda:

Stimulus package- passed

Health care- a compromise passed only by Dems through reconciliation; not what he wanted.

Grand economic plan- total failure. Forced to accept one extension of budget after another, plus a very moderate tax increase compared to the one he wanted, plus spending cuts he didn't want.

Climate change- total failure.

Immigration reform- total failure.

Gun control- total failure.

Trans Pacifuc Partnership- remains to be seen, but looks promising.

Iran negotiations- remains to be seen but looks problematic (in terms of Congressional approval).

I don't see how anyone could look at this record and say "success!" Only one major legislative issue, the stimulus package, was enacted without significant change. Most of his agenda has gone absolutely nowhere. A large part of this is due to his personal hubris. Like Wilson, Obsma believes himself to be smarter than Congresd. He holds them in contempt, particularly the Rrpublicans, and the feeling is mutual. I think Hillary Clintion, ever the pragmatist in the LBJ mold, will be much better at getting things done. She will push her own party to compromise in order to win concessions from the other side, something Obama was unable or unwilling to do. Hillary will be far less flashy, but far more substantial.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree with tim that Obama's failure to do anything on climate change is a huge strike against him, and I think history is likely to hold that against him in a way that it wouldn't if we were talking about a Republican. This is an area where Democrats are supposed to be the good guys, and he completely whiffed this one.

 

[NCCommish]

Pretty sure history will record Republican intransigence as the main cause for the lack of movement on climate change.

 

[timschochet]

Pretty sure history will record Republican intransigence as the main cause for the lack of movement on climate change.

I hear this excuse about not only climate change, but also immigration reform and gun control. Yet for the first 2 years Obama had friendly majorities in the House and Senate. Obamacare demonstrated that filibusters could be overcome through reconciliation. So it seems to me to be somewhat of a weak excuse.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Pretty sure history will record Republican intransigence as the main cause for the lack of movement on climate change.

Nope. Obama punted on this. His supporters cheered lower gas prices when they should have been advocating for higher prices. Republicans were on the wrong side of this, but everybody expects that, like with Democrats and taxes. This was an issue where Obama knew better but chose not to engage.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Hillary isn't going to advocate for prohibition. That house is wildly out of the barn and it ain't going back. Not where I live; not in this area of the country. I agree with the poster who said Hillary will lick her finger, stick it up in the air and let the wind sway her on where she resides on an issue.

I think you're mistaken about this. Hillary is the prototype of the risk-averse politician who will channel her reptilian nature to take the lowest-risk position on almost anything that could be contentious. She's going to see no downside in going along with prohibition because where are the potheads going to go? To the Republicans? Nobody in that party besides Paul will take this on.

That said, I've been extremely vocal about my abject hatred for Hillary Clinton. I despise her and I think less of people who support her right now. But if she did actually come out in favor of legalization (and her opponent did not), I would vote for her despite all the baggage. That issue is that high on my agenda, and it would be a great example of Democrats actually being good where they're supposed to be good, instead of being duplicitous #######s.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Hillary isn't going to advocate for prohibition. That house is wildly out of the barn and it ain't going back. Not where I live; not in this area of the country. I agree with the poster who said Hillary will lick her finger, stick it up in the air and let the wind sway her on where she resides on an issue.

I think you're mistaken about this. Hillary is the prototype of the risk-averse politician who will channel her reptilian nature to take the lowest-risk position on almost anything that could be contentious. She's going to see no downside in going along with prohibition because where are the potheads going to go? To the Republicans? Nobody in that party besides Paul will take this on.

That said, I've been extremely vocal about my abject hatred for Hillary Clinton. I despise her and I think less of people who support her right now. But if she did actually come out in favor of legalization (and her opponent did not), I would vote for her despite all the baggage. That issue is that high on my agenda, and it would be a great example of Democrats actually being good where they're supposed to be good, instead of being duplicitous #######s.

Interesting. Why is this one issue so important for you that you would vote for her if she supported it?

 

[eoMMan]

I could have been president in that first term and the economy would have rebounded. It mostly needed time. McCain would have done done with it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Hillary isn't going to advocate for prohibition. That house is wildly out of the barn and it ain't going back. Not where I live; not in this area of the country. I agree with the poster who said Hillary will lick her finger, stick it up in the air and let the wind sway her on where she resides on an issue.

I think you're mistaken about this. Hillary is the prototype of the risk-averse politician who will channel her reptilian nature to take the lowest-risk position on almost anything that could be contentious. She's going to see no downside in going along with prohibition because where are the potheads going to go? To the Republicans? Nobody in that party besides Paul will take this on.

That said, I've been extremely vocal about my abject hatred for Hillary Clinton. I despise her and I think less of people who support her right now. But if she did actually come out in favor of legalization (and her opponent did not), I would vote for her despite all the baggage. That issue is that high on my agenda, and it would be a great example of Democrats actually being good where they're supposed to be good, instead of being duplicitous #######s.

Interesting. Why is this one issue so important for you that you would vote for her if she supported it?

Good question. I'm a libertarian, so I'm used to thinking about things that are already settled issues that -- realistically -- we will never revisit. For example, I think anti-discrimination laws should be abolished, as should minimum wage legislation. Neither of those things will ever happen, and I fully realize that. My thoughts on the matter make for fun message board debates, but they're irrelevant for public policy.

Drug legalization, on the other hand, is very much a live issue. This one thing is low-hanging fruit (relative to abolishing the relevant portions of the 1964 CRA) that can dramatically improve the status of human liberty in this country. I think it is appalling that people run into trouble with the law because they use the wrong kind of intoxicant. Admittedly, there is a selfish interest in this too -- I drink more than I should and I think switching to pot would be good for my health. But even if were sworn to sobriety, I would still be all be over this because it clearly aligns with my political ideology and it's actually achievable with a little leadership.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Hillary isn't going to advocate for prohibition. That house is wildly out of the barn and it ain't going back. Not where I live; not in this area of the country. I agree with the poster who said Hillary will lick her finger, stick it up in the air and let the wind sway her on where she resides on an issue.

I think you're mistaken about this. Hillary is the prototype of the risk-averse politician who will channel her reptilian nature to take the lowest-risk position on almost anything that could be contentious. She's going to see no downside in going along with prohibition because where are the potheads going to go? To the Republicans? Nobody in that party besides Paul will take this on.

That said, I've been extremely vocal about my abject hatred for Hillary Clinton. I despise her and I think less of people who support her right now. But if she did actually come out in favor of legalization (and her opponent did not), I would vote for her despite all the baggage. That issue is that high on my agenda, and it would be a great example of Democrats actually being good where they're supposed to be good, instead of being duplicitous #######s.

Interesting. Why is this one issue so important for you that you would vote for her if she supported it?

Good question. I'm a libertarian, so I'm used to thinking about things that are already settled issues that -- realistically -- we will never revisit. For example, I think anti-discrimination laws should be abolished, as should minimum wage legislation. Neither of those things will ever happen, and I fully realize that. My thoughts on the matter make for fun message board debates, but they're irrelevant for public policy.

Drug legalization, on the other hand, is very much a live issue. This one thing is low-hanging fruit (relative to abolishing the relevant portions of the 1964 CRA) that can dramatically improve the status of human liberty in this country. I think it is appalling that people run into trouble with the law because they use the wrong kind of intoxicant. Admittedly, there is a selfish interest in this too -- I drink more than I should and I think switching to pot would be good for my health. But even if were sworn to sobriety, I would still be all be over this because it clearly aligns with my political ideology and it's actually achievable with a little leadership.

Thanks, IK!

I think we should decriminalize weed too, but basically have the same basic restrictions on it like we do alcohol. The amount of money the Gubmint would get by doing this (by saving $$ in resources and getting $$ in taxes and regulation) would be enormous. I don't see how this is even a lose situation.

Not sure I would ever vote for Hillary, though.

 

[roadkill1292]

Great? Well if you are one that worships at the alter of collectivism then greatness is certainly a cogent perspective. For freedom loving Americans this is a true disaster. The attack on the individual in favor of the state is in full motion and has been circumventing since daddy Bush ran his neocon con snowballing straight thru silly Billy's charismatic "leadership" and well into Bush junior's unholy carnage. Obama has put the icing in the cake and has served up more smoking mirrors, deception and despotic shenanigans. The Keynesian economic strategy continues to roll along like a zombie out of control driving debt into the trillions with zero accountability. As the living presidents feed at the trough of deception, our well regulated democracy spirals head long towards the goal of global unification. Big pharma, Hollyweird, a lying media and BigAg continue to serve as the tools of distraction while academia literally brainwashes the foolish ones to throw away their freedoms. At the center of it all is the twisted fiat money system and the dogma of religion. Freedom lovers beware. Detroit, California and Chicago serve notice as to what is coming. And for our esteemed Mr. President - great job dividing class, race, social and free market spaces. Greatness...

Education seems to still be a problem.

Yeah check it out sometime. As a matter of fact, you can probably educate yourself and side step the indoctrination these days unless you drink the koolaide from the talking heads.

It's "Kool-Aid", BGP...."Kool-Aid".

And I just bought legal weed at a store, saluting an openly gay Marine who was in the parking lot with his gay civilian boyfriend, on their way into the strip mall church for a wedding. No freedoms? Screw off. Freedom of speech...I still have that, n'est pas?

BGP? Say it ain't so!

 

[cstu]

Thanks, IK!

I think we should decriminalize weed too, but basically have the same basic restrictions on it like we do alcohol. The amount of money the Gubmint would get by doing this (by saving $$ in resources and getting $$ in taxes and regulation) would be enormous. I don't see how this is even a lose situation.

Not sure I would ever vote for Hillary, though.

On Veep this year they had an episode where the VP candidate said he supported legalization of drugs and everyone freaked out.

How is this still a shocking idea?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I'm surprised that conservatives haven't hammered Obama for glomming on to the gay marriage bandwagon.

 

[Soonerman]

It's hard for me to picture a country enjoying the benefits of universal health coverage (and other social progresses) 50 years from now looking back on Reagan's terms with any real affection.

Reagan brought the religious right into mainstream politics, gave weapons to terrorists/Iran, and then turned tail and ran away when over 200 Marines were slaughtered.

Reagan was a giant steaming terd.

Says the forum's self-proclaimed moderate. Keep up the good work.

That is all pretty much true. And he forgot that it was Reagan and his policies who turned us into the biggest debtor nation on earth. Nice going Saint Ronnie.

Hey, we agree on something. I too fault Reagan for not killing the American entitlement state the way he killed the Soviet Empire.