Things We Don't Like (1 Viewer)

[Eephus]

Posted for future reference. If there's a thread this season about any of these subjects, I'm vehemently opposed.

[*]Los Angeles Dodgers

[*]Long-term contracts for relief pitchers

[*]Tim McCarver

[*]Interleague play

[*]John Stuper

[*]Brian Sabean

[*]Fantasy formats with short benches and defined SP/RP slots

[*]Jeff Kent

[*]The HoF candidacy of Jack Morris

[*]MLB's Saturday TV deal

[*]Russell Martin

[*]Jose Lopez

[*]Five game playoff series

How about yours?

 

[pantagrapher]

Hawk Harrelson

Rick Ankiel

Joe Morgan

Reed Johnson and Aaron Rowand

The Designated Hitter

Baggy pants

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Grady Sizemore

Yankees fans crying about their team

Oakland A's current stadium

Players who don't show some sock

Fielding percentages

162 game season

5 game playoff series

No DH in the NL

Joe Morgan

Lack of salary cap/floor

Hanley Ramirez

 

[cheese]

Leaving a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs

Cubs fans and their victim complex

Chris Carpenter

How good Albert Pujols is at baseball

Getting picked off.... ever

Terrible defensive players

People who view BABIP as 100% random

Punting a category as a strategy to win the league

 

[boubucarow]

5 game playoff series

the halfway existence of the DH

unbalanced schedule

inter league play

getting paid for past peformance

not getting paid for current performance

Any hitter that never learns to lay off the outside slider

the balk rule

95% of television baseball analysis

any talk of protecting a hitter in a lineup

clutch

Ryan Theriot

Anyone who doesn't run the bases like Marlon Byrd

What wins in the regular season doesn't equal what wins in the post season

Will Clark for erasing Mark Grace's post season fame

That I laughed when My Cubs collapsed in '04

That Andre Dawson was good enough to enter the Hall but Ron Santo wasn't

That Greg Maddux pitched for any team other than the Cubs

That more parks don't create a unique home field advantage or change in play

That players often can't get paid enough to stay on their original team

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Cold weather baseball.

 

[Wrigley]

Cubs fans and their victim complex

Stop picking on me

 

[PIK95]

People saying Juice doesn't make you a better ballplayer :batspeed:

 

[Dr. Awesome]

People who think Jeter is a defensive asset

People who think we should keep Bonds out of the HoF because he cheated

People who think cheating isn't part of baseball

 

[Smack Tripper]

The short bench. There should be a 25 man active roster with 27 floating slots. The relieverizataion of the game should let you leave two starters inactive. Better baseball all around.

 

[Eephus]

The short bench. There should be a 25 man active roster with 27 floating slots. The relieverizataion of the game should let you leave two starters inactive. Better baseball all around.

I forgot to complain about 3 1/2 hour long games

 

[Smack Tripper]

The short bench. There should be a 25 man active roster with 27 floating slots. The relieverizataion of the game should let you leave two starters inactive. Better baseball all around.

I forgot to complain about 3 1/2 hour long games

Post abundant PED use, I think the game times SEEM to be getting shorter. At least they feel a whole lot crisper by contrast.

 

[rodg12]

No DH in the NL

Unbalanced schedule

Interleague play

The Red Sux

Jonathan Papelbon

Kevin Youkilis (the donkey-faced MFer)

People who crusade against HGH-users like they're the devil

People who crusade against steroid-user like they're the devil

Joe Buck

Tim McCarver

ESPN's now sh#### Baseball Tonight

 

[Spartans Rule]

Five-game playoff series

Walking the 8th batter to get to the pitcher

Analysts who talk about batting average and wins as the most important statistics

The current half-### version of interleague play

The overdramatization of steroid issues

Keeping all modern power hitters out of the HOF based on speculation

Minnesota Twins

Joel Zumaya's lack of durability

The hit-and-run

People who don't understand sample size overreacting to postseason stats

Rafael Betancourt

 

[Wrigley]

Yankee's payroll

Interleague play

Wins leader winning the Cy Young

American League being a better league than the NL

5 tool players

White Sux

$8 Beers

Wrigley being a dump

Day Baseball

How PED's don't help you hit HRs

Players that don't play the field

Humidors

Pujols is really 35

Power Monster

Flat brimmed hats

Hawkisms

Pinstripes

Greenies

East Coast Bias

LIMA plan

Cork

Ozzie Ball

 

[boubucarow]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

:2005:

 

[boubucarow]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

:2005:

It isn't because they won. It is because they didn't win due to Ozzie ball. They won with power on offense just as they should in that park.

 

[Wrigley]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

:2005:

It isn't because they won. It is because they didn't win due to Ozzie ball. They won with power on offense just as they should in that park.

OWERMONSTER:

 

[Limp Ditka]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

:2005:

It isn't because they won. It is because they didn't win due to Ozzie ball. They won with power on offense just as they should in that park.

AL ranks in 2005SB - 3rd Sac Bunts - 1stBut don't let facts get in the way of your selective memory / bitterness.

 

[boubucarow]

Ozzie Ball

Forgot that one. Everything about that has annoyed the $ out of me since he took over.

:2005:

It isn't because they won. It is because they didn't win due to Ozzie ball. They won with power on offense just as they should in that park.

AL ranks in 2005SB - 3rd Sac Bunts - 1stBut don't let facts get in the way of your selective memory / bitterness.

Funny thing about factsCS - 1stSB% - 11th - and well below threshold of effectivenessHR - 4th

 

[PIK95]

Gamesmanship like scuffed balls, spitters, and stealing signs has ALWAYS been part of the game. Sticking a spike in your ### to make you into a superhero with crazy bat speed, allowing you to wait longer to start your swing, and that making it easier for you to identify which pitch is coming is not gamesmanship. IT's CHEATING! I don't like people who don't see that. Also, grammer and spelling police eff off. :X

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Mark McGwire's phony tears

Jeter's chase for 2000 hits

Suzyn Waldman

Insistence that there is parity in MLB because the Yankees don't win every year

Allowing guys to steal when they are less than 75% successful at it

Batters who can't take a walk

Fantasy Sports Writers Association "hall of fame"

Managerial dogma

Dusty Baker

"The Trop"

Lack of accountability among people who predict things for a living

Hall of Fame Veterans Committee

Karl Ravech's fake hair

Wins as a measure of a pitcher's success

Horrible contracts that were obviously avoidable

Fickle fans

Rabbit Maranville in the Hall of Fame

All-Star voting

The 1994 season

Bud Selig

 

[dparker713]

Willful ignorance of baseball writers in general

Moralizing about steroids yet giving greenies a pass

Interleague play

Days off in the playoffs

Moving of Opening Day

Lack of double headers

$10 beers

BS about 'first ballot' HOFers

Phillies

Yankees

Braves

Larry

Shoulder injuries

Ollie Perez

Fred Wilpon

Not having a spare billion

 

[Greco]

Indoor baseball

 

[TobiasFunke]

Willful ignorance of baseball writers in generalMoralizing about steroids yet giving greenies a passInterleague playDays off in the playoffsMoving of Opening Day Lack of double headers$10 beersBS about 'first ballot' HOFersPhilliesYankeesBravesLarryShoulder injuriesOllie PerezFred WilponNot having a spare billion

It's like I have an identical twin and we were separated at birth and he became a Mets fan.I'll add: Cutting off everyone after the 7th.

 

[Limp Ditka]

AL ranks in 2005SB - 3rd Sac Bunts - 1stBut don't let facts get in the way of your selective memory / bitterness.

Funny thing about factsCS - 1stSB% - 11th - and well below threshold of effectivenessHR - 4th

So since they didn't succeed in stealing bases, at a rate you find acceptable, Ozzie Ball never happened?Got it.To attribute the White Sox's success that year to their power is what I would expect from someone that either doesn't understand baseball, or just didn't watch that team in 2005. You probably fall into both catagories.The 2005 White Sox were a ++ team when it came to pitching and a + defensive team (also parts of Ozzie Ball). They could afford to be aggressive on the bases and give up outs (CS, sacs) in the name of scoring runs.And SB% is probably the most irrelevant stat ever. Even if only 30-40% of their 137 SBs resulted in runs, or prevented a DP from taking place later in the inning, then I don't care what happened the 67 times they got caught.

 

[dparker713]

And SB% is probably the most irrelevant stat ever. Even if only 30-40% of their 137 SBs resulted in runs, or prevented a DP from taking place later in the inning, then I don't care what happened the 67 times they got caught.

With all the freely available information on baseball out there, it amazes me how incredibly ignorant people can be about fundamental aspects of baseball strategy.

 

[Limp Ditka]

And SB% is probably the most irrelevant stat ever. Even if only 30-40% of their 137 SBs resulted in runs, or prevented a DP from taking place later in the inning, then I don't care what happened the 67 times they got caught.

With all the freely available information on baseball out there, it amazes me how incredibly ignorant people can be about fundamental aspects of baseball strategy.

go ahead and tell me how generating around 50 runs out of 200 SB attempts is a bad thing.

 

[dparker713]

And SB% is probably the most irrelevant stat ever. Even if only 30-40% of their 137 SBs resulted in runs, or prevented a DP from taking place later in the inning, then I don't care what happened the 67 times they got caught.

With all the freely available information on baseball out there, it amazes me how incredibly ignorant people can be about fundamental aspects of baseball strategy.

go ahead and tell me how generating around 50 runs out of 200 SB attempts is a bad thing.

Because if the runners had never moved they'd have scored more runs. Outs are bad, m'kay?

 

[Limp Ditka]

And SB% is probably the most irrelevant stat ever. Even if only 30-40% of their 137 SBs resulted in runs, or prevented a DP from taking place later in the inning, then I don't care what happened the 67 times they got caught.

With all the freely available information on baseball out there, it amazes me how incredibly ignorant people can be about fundamental aspects of baseball strategy.

go ahead and tell me how generating around 50 runs out of 200 SB attempts is a bad thing.

Because if the runners had never moved they'd have scored more runs. Outs are bad, m'kay?

I do get what you're saying. Runners probably score at a 30% clip as opposed to me suggesting that a runner steals a base scores 25% of the time. But it goes beyond the basic numbers in my opinion. Situational baseball has to come into account. I'd love to see the numbers from any and all years that state how many SBs resulted in runs. I'm sure that's available out there somewhere.

 

[Wrigley]

From Wikipedia

Stolen base percentage is a statistic used in baseball.A player's stolen base percentage (aka SB%) measures his rate of success in stealing bases. Because stolen bases tend to help a team less than times caught stealing hurt, a player needs to have a high stolen base percentage in order to contribute much value to his team. A commonly used figure is that a player needs to succeed about 2/3 of the time to break even.Formula: SB% = Stolen Bases/(Stolen Bases + Caught Stealing)With 300 minimum career attempts, Carlos Beltrán currently holds the record for highest Stolen base percentage in the Major Leagues, with .881, with Tim Raines in second, with .847.Total Baseball developed a statistic related to stolen base percentage called "Stolen Base Runs" or SBR. (.3 x Stolen Bases) - (.6 x Caught Stealing) This Total Baseball statistic is aimed at quantifying base-stealing. Numerous statistical studies done by Total Baseball have shown that the break even success rate for steals (the rate at which an attempt to steal is neither helping nor hurting the team in terms of total runs scored) is about 67%. Each successful steal adds approximately .3 runs to a team's total runs scored which is much less than often believed. Therefore, the statistic is meant to estimate the impact of base-stealers, which, other than the elite base-stealers, rarely amounts to more than a few runs per year for each team.

truth be told, I didn't look very hardBilly Beane is a pretty good numbers guy, and he's not much of a SB guy.

 

[Limp Ditka]

From Wikipedia

Stolen base percentage is a statistic used in baseball.

A player's stolen base percentage (aka SB%) measures his rate of success in stealing bases. Because stolen bases tend to help a team less than times caught stealing hurt, a player needs to have a high stolen base percentage in order to contribute much value to his team. A commonly used figure is that a player needs to succeed about 2/3 of the time to break even.

Formula: SB% = Stolen Bases/(Stolen Bases + Caught Stealing)

With 300 minimum career attempts, Carlos Beltrán currently holds the record for highest Stolen base percentage in the Major Leagues, with .881, with Tim Raines in second, with .847.

Total Baseball developed a statistic related to stolen base percentage called "Stolen Base Runs" or SBR. (.3 x Stolen Bases) - (.6 x Caught Stealing) This Total Baseball statistic is aimed at quantifying base-stealing. Numerous statistical studies done by Total Baseball have shown that the break even success rate for steals (the rate at which an attempt to steal is neither helping nor hurting the team in terms of total runs scored) is about 67%. Each successful steal adds approximately .3 runs to a team's total runs scored which is much less than often believed. Therefore, the statistic is meant to estimate the impact of base-stealers, which, other than the elite base-stealers, rarely amounts to more than a few runs per year for each team.

truth be told, I didn't look very hardBilly Beane is a pretty good numbers guy, and he's much of a SB guy.

Wonder what the 2005 White Sox SB% was?

 

[boubucarow]

From Wikipedia

Stolen base percentage is a statistic used in baseball.

A player's stolen base percentage (aka SB%) measures his rate of success in stealing bases. Because stolen bases tend to help a team less than times caught stealing hurt, a player needs to have a high stolen base percentage in order to contribute much value to his team. A commonly used figure is that a player needs to succeed about 2/3 of the time to break even.

Formula: SB% = Stolen Bases/(Stolen Bases + Caught Stealing)

With 300 minimum career attempts, Carlos Beltrán currently holds the record for highest Stolen base percentage in the Major Leagues, with .881, with Tim Raines in second, with .847.

Total Baseball developed a statistic related to stolen base percentage called "Stolen Base Runs" or SBR. (.3 x Stolen Bases) - (.6 x Caught Stealing) This Total Baseball statistic is aimed at quantifying base-stealing. Numerous statistical studies done by Total Baseball have shown that the break even success rate for steals (the rate at which an attempt to steal is neither helping nor hurting the team in terms of total runs scored) is about 67%. Each successful steal adds approximately .3 runs to a team's total runs scored which is much less than often believed. Therefore, the statistic is meant to estimate the impact of base-stealers, which, other than the elite base-stealers, rarely amounts to more than a few runs per year for each team.

truth be told, I didn't look very hardBilly Beane is a pretty good numbers guy, and he's much of a SB guy.

Wonder what the 2005 White Sox SB% was?

I remember it being 75% from my past reading. It seems that the break even rate is somewhere between 67 and 75. Even at 67, it means the White Sox broke even. In other word, it didn't help them or hurt them. Add to that a 67% rate on their sacrifice attempts that have a break even rate north of 75% in ideal situations. If you give a bump for creating defensive confusion, staying out of double plays, and hit and run advances, it seems that the White Sox probably were close to breaking even in all of their Ozzie Ball pursuits on offense.

 

[PIK95]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

 

[rodg12]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

Sure they do...

 

[Wrigley]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.

No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ball

Why give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?

Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

 

[PIK95]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

Sure they do...

They don't?

 

[rodg12]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

Sure they do...

They don't?

No, they don't.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ballWhy give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

Depends on where / when you're giving up said outs. It's all about the situation. With Pods being the leading, and probably worst, base stealer, one has to think that they probably did run themselves out of some runs.But again, they led the AL in sacs and were 3rd in SBs. Regardless of the succes rates, and the number of HRs they hit, that's playing small ball. They also led the AL in taking extra bases. It doesn't mean it's smart baseball, it just means that Ozzie Ball was happening.

 

[dparker713]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

The percentage you need to succeed on the basepaths is dictated by the run scoring environment, i.e. its already been factored in for the league in general. You can also adjust for a given game expected scoring, the specific lineups and/or the game situation. I've never seen such break even percentages out in public, but it could be done and probably has been done by individual teams.ETA - your stance on steroids is ridiculous. Corking bats, stealing signs, doctoring baseballs and taking amphetamines are all cheating. Just for some reason you feel that one particular form of cheating is somehow unique.

 

[dparker713]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ballWhy give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

Depends on where / when you're giving up said outs. It's all about the situation. With Pods being the leading, and probably worst, base stealer, one has to think that they probably did run themselves out of some runs.But again, they led the AL in sacs and were 3rd in SBs. Regardless of the succes rates, and the number of HRs they hit, that's playing small ball. They also led the AL in taking extra bases. It doesn't mean it's smart baseball, it just means that Ozzie Ball was happening.

He didn't claim they weren't doing those things. He claimed they won inspite of those things after you

 

[PIK95]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

The percentage you need to succeed on the basepaths is dictated by the run scoring environment, i.e. its already been factored in for the league in general. You can also adjust for a given game expected scoring, the specific lineups and/or the game situation. I've never seen such break even percentages out in public, but it could be done and probably has been done by individual teams.ETA - your stance on steroids is ridiculous. Corking bats, stealing signs, doctoring baseballs and taking amphetamines are all cheating. Just for some reason you feel that one particular form of cheating is somehow unique.

It's apples and oranges imo. Look at the stats. Only one of the things you listed seemed to effect the stats. I'm also huge against corking bats fwiw. That's also cheating imo. Beanies are bad but I don't think they effected the stats at all. Stealing signs and doctoring the ball go back to the beginning as gamesmanship. Bean balls and brushbacks fall into the same catagory imo. Phantom throws coming by middle infielders to get a guy to slide instead of advancing to third is another. Taking drugs that make you super strong, recover quicker, and most importantly increase bat speed is flat out cheating as well as against the law. Beanies are bad as well as they are against the law but as I said they are apples and oranges compared to steroids. Would Sosa, Bonds, and Mc have hit sixty bombs w/o the juice? They also let you have the strength and bat speed to start your swing later and know what pitch is coming. They probably help you walk more also as your not gonna start your swing as early and you can layoff the pitches that are breaking out. Apples and oranges imo.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ballWhy give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

Depends on where / when you're giving up said outs. It's all about the situation. With Pods being the leading, and probably worst, base stealer, one has to think that they probably did run themselves out of some runs.But again, they led the AL in sacs and were 3rd in SBs. Regardless of the succes rates, and the number of HRs they hit, that's playing small ball. They also led the AL in taking extra bases. It doesn't mean it's smart baseball, it just means that Ozzie Ball was happening.

He didn't claim they weren't doing those things. He claimed they won inspite of those things after you

Them winning via Ozzie Ball has been disproven where? At worst, we're calling their SBs a wash. No one has said a word about them sacrificing runners and base runners taking extra bases on balls in play. Both of which they led the AL in.This is a team, that despite the 200 HR, was below the AL average in almost every other base offensive stat (BA/OBP/Runs/H/Doubles/Triples/RBIs). They needed to manufacture runs when the opportunity presented itself.And like I said before, the team had an excellent pitching staff and were a + defensive team. These are also parts of small ball or Ozzie Ball.

 

[boubucarow]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ballWhy give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

Depends on where / when you're giving up said outs. It's all about the situation. With Pods being the leading, and probably worst, base stealer, one has to think that they probably did run themselves out of some runs.But again, they led the AL in sacs and were 3rd in SBs. Regardless of the succes rates, and the number of HRs they hit, that's playing small ball. They also led the AL in taking extra bases. It doesn't mean it's smart baseball, it just means that Ozzie Ball was happening.

He didn't claim they weren't doing those things. He claimed they won inspite of those things after you

Them winning via Ozzie Ball has been disproven where? At worst, we're calling their SBs a wash. No one has said a word about them sacrificing runners and base runners taking extra bases on balls in play. Both of which they led the AL in.This is a team, that despite the 200 HR, was below the AL average in almost every other base offensive stat (BA/OBP/Runs/H/Doubles/Triples/RBIs). They needed to manufacture runs when the opportunity presented itself.And like I said before, the team had an excellent pitching staff and were a + defensive team. These are also parts of small ball or Ozzie Ball.

In 2005, the AL scored 36.7% of its runs on home runs.In 2005, the White Sox scored 42.3% of its runs on home runs.So in other words, the White Sox manufactured a fewer % of its runs than the average AL team.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I always thought Ozzie ball equated to small ball.No team that hits 200 HR's is playing small ballWhy give up the outs, when you can just knock them in with the HR?Seems the Sox may have run themselves out of some runs being so aggressive on the base paths

Depends on where / when you're giving up said outs. It's all about the situation. With Pods being the leading, and probably worst, base stealer, one has to think that they probably did run themselves out of some runs.But again, they led the AL in sacs and were 3rd in SBs. Regardless of the succes rates, and the number of HRs they hit, that's playing small ball. They also led the AL in taking extra bases. It doesn't mean it's smart baseball, it just means that Ozzie Ball was happening.

He didn't claim they weren't doing those things. He claimed they won inspite of those things after you

Them winning via Ozzie Ball has been disproven where? At worst, we're calling their SBs a wash. No one has said a word about them sacrificing runners and base runners taking extra bases on balls in play. Both of which they led the AL in.This is a team, that despite the 200 HR, was below the AL average in almost every other base offensive stat (BA/OBP/Runs/H/Doubles/Triples/RBIs). They needed to manufacture runs when the opportunity presented itself.And like I said before, the team had an excellent pitching staff and were a + defensive team. These are also parts of small ball or Ozzie Ball.

In 2005, the AL scored 36.7% of its runs on home runs.In 2005, the White Sox scored 42.3% of its runs on home runs.So in other words, the White Sox manufactured a fewer % of its runs than the average AL team.

This proves nothing. Taking extra bases that are not earned (i.e 1st to 3rd on a single), and turning that into a runSacrificing runners into scoring postition and bringing them in with singles, sac flies, wild pitchesThat's what I mean by manufacturing runs.Not a double followed by a double

 

[dparker713]

If you have a team loaded with mashers then the CS is gonna really hurt. Not so much with a bunch of crappy bats. I'm not sure how you can take that into account with stats. As for Beanies vs. roids, I don't think Beanies did much more than keep guys awake and maybe make the A.D.D guys focus a bit more. They have disadvantages like quick crashes and loss of creativity that probably hurt your game a bit also. Roids make you a super hero. I don't see the comparison at all. I have taken every "greenie" in college legally to try and overcome my A.D.D. so I'm not Jim Carrey-ing here. It's like pounding ten mountain dews, lol.

The percentage you need to succeed on the basepaths is dictated by the run scoring environment, i.e. its already been factored in for the league in general. You can also adjust for a given game expected scoring, the specific lineups and/or the game situation. I've never seen such break even percentages out in public, but it could be done and probably has been done by individual teams.ETA - your stance on steroids is ridiculous. Corking bats, stealing signs, doctoring baseballs and taking amphetamines are all cheating. Just for some reason you feel that one particular form of cheating is somehow unique.

It's apples and oranges imo. Look at the stats. Only one of the things you listed seemed to effect the stats. I'm also huge against corking bats fwiw. That's also cheating imo. Beanies are bad but I don't think they effected the stats at all. Stealing signs and doctoring the ball go back to the beginning as gamesmanship. Bean balls and brushbacks fall into the same catagory imo. Phantom throws coming by middle infielders to get a guy to slide instead of advancing to third is another. Taking drugs that make you super strong, recover quicker, and most importantly increase bat speed is flat out cheating as well as against the law. Beanies are bad as well as they are against the law but as I said they are apples and oranges compared to steroids. Would Sosa, Bonds, and Mc have hit sixty bombs w/o the juice? They also let you have the strength and bat speed to start your swing later and know what pitch is coming. They probably help you walk more also as your not gonna start your swing as early and you can layoff the pitches that are breaking out. Apples and oranges imo.

Penalties for MLB steroid use started in 2004. NL runs per game in 2003 was 4.61 In 2004 it was 4.64AL runs per game in 2003 was 4.86 In 2004 it was 5.01There was some downward movement in runs in 2008 and 2009, but it wasn't really until this past year that there was a large dop in run production in MLB. Interestingly, there was no significant drop in run production until after amphetamines testing started in 2006. The facts just do not fit your narrative.BTW, corking bats hurts HR production, it does not help it.

 

[dparker713]

This proves nothing. Taking extra bases that are not earned (i.e 1st to 3rd on a single), and turning that into a runSacrificing runners into scoring postition and bringing them in with singles, sac flies, wild pitchesThat's what I mean by manufacturing runs.Not a double followed by a double

Bill James tracks the 1st to 3rd stuff and generally taking an extra base. I don't happen to have a subscription to BJO, but the effect you're describing is fairly small. The best players in the league each year being in the neighborhood of 4-5 runs, IIRC. Even if you say Ozzieball contributed 2 extra runs per batter over their true talent, thats a difference of less than 2 wins. That year the White Sox finished with a 6 game lead.

 

[Zegras11]

Hawk Harrelson

Ozzie Guillen

White Sox railers