Third Round Reversal- Positive/Negative? (1 Viewer)

[RonnieBrown23]

I am thinking of starting another 16 team 30 round dynasty league in the same format that we have had 2 other successful leagues already flourishing, but with a twist.

I want to use the 3RR to make it equal across the board because the size of the league.

Thoughts anyone? Or any good links, or FBG info on this?

 

[radballs]

I agree with you that the larger the league, the more it makes sense. I don't know how much that will help the guy in the 16 spot vs. the 1 spot, but it at least does something to level the playing field.

 

[RonnieBrown23]

Does anyone have any links or more information on this?

 

[lebowski]

I'm curious about this as well.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'll probably write up an article about it as I'm likely to be in at least one league with 3RR.

NFFC and Rotobowl are both using it. NFFC has 14 teams, Rotobowl 12.

I did a cursory check on the math (looking at the first 16 rounds of a 12-teamer, just adding up the values).

In a normal serpentine:



1: 6474

12: 6100

Difference: 6.1%

All the 12 picks slide downward in value as expected (ranging between 6474 and 6100).

In the 3RR:

1: 6359

12: 6215

Here's the odd thing - the middle gets hosed in 3RR. Pick #8 is actually the worst according to the chart values, getting 6187 points.

The good news? Even at 6187, you're only 2.8% lower than Pick #1.

Of course this is all about pick values, not players and talent.

 

[robb]

I do this in one of my three leagues and by far, it is my favorite way to draft!!

It is more fair, more fun and it makes you think through drafting alot more. I hope every league gives it some consideration

Note: If I were to implement it, I would first tell the league it won't be this year, but we'll start it next year. This way, it gives everyone a "heads up" and could be really more important in a Keeper League so owners can plan for "next year" better!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I am thinking of starting another 16 team 30 round dynasty league in the same format that we have had 2 other successful leagues already flourishing, but with a twist.I want to use the 3RR to make it equal across the board because the size of the league.Thoughts anyone? Or any good links, or FBG info on this?

Ive used in many leagues. Ive done it for several years. All live drafts from 12 to 16 teams big.first-lastlast-firstlast-firstlast-firstfirst-lastserpentine(banzai method - or what its now being called as in 3rr )and first-lastlast-firstlast-firstfirst-lastserpentine(a 3rs - 3rdround reverse serpentine) (which is what ncff is doing, though calling it a 3rr)If you truly want to even up you need to do the first method.The second method helps, but its just not enough to stop a team from wanting to draft in the first 4 positions. With the Banzai method, you really dont care where you draft. Any position is a fine spot. Even though you wont get the top RBs... you will have the top WRs, QBs and #2 RBs. Which is what it takes to try and have an even playing field before the draft even begins.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'll probably write up an article about it as I'm likely to be in at least one league with 3RR.

NFFC and Rotobowl are both using it. NFFC has 14 teams, Rotobowl 12.

I did a cursory check on the math (looking at the first 16 rounds of a 12-teamer, just adding up the values).

In a normal serpentine:



1: 6474

12: 6100

Difference: 6.1%

All the 12 picks slide downward in value as expected (ranging between 6474 and 6100).

In the 3RR:

1: 6359

12: 6215

Here's the odd thing - the middle gets hosed in 3RR. Pick #8 is actually the worst according to the chart values, getting 6187 points.

The good news? Even at 6187, you're only 2.8% lower than Pick #1.

Of course this is all about pick values, not players and talent.

The middle is also typically never "left out" of a run. Whatever position it may be.And Jeff, the point differential you show... is that the 3RS (like NCFF) or is it the Banzai Method?

If it is the 3RS, can you show the points for just the 3rd round being reversed also, using your math please?

 

[Greg Ambrosius - NFFC]

I am thinking of starting another 16 team 30 round dynasty league in the same format that we have had 2 other successful leagues already flourishing, but with a twist.I want to use the 3RR to make it equal across the board because the size of the league.Thoughts anyone? Or any good links, or FBG info on this?

I'm not here to pump our event, but I would like to clarify why the National Fantasy Football Championship has decided to use 3RR this year in all of our draft events (satellite leagues, live drafts, Draft Champions Leagues and Ultimate Leagues). The data over the last several years is pretty overwhelming that drafting near the top is more advantageous than drafting near the bottom. In the NFFC last year, 18 of our top 32 teams in total points drafted in the first three spots and in the WCOFF I believe 50 out of 70 playoff teams had either LT or LJ on them. Now that being said, it's obvious that you can win from any spot in the draft. Many times, it's the later picks -- guys like Marques Colston -- who win the league titles, not the first round picks. But our format has 14 teams in each league and when teams are paying $1300 each to compete, you want as fair a playing field as possible. Sometimes even the PERCEPTION that all spots are created equal is enough to get people to participate in your high-stakes league over another one.When it comes to the high-stakes format, shouldn't every product give what the customer wants? I think so, and over the last three years we've heard from our participants that getting a preferred draft spot is what they are looking for. Thus, we created KDS (Kentucky Derby System) where folks rank their 14 spots in order and then we seed each team after the leagues are randomly selected. Now the combination of KDS and 3RR gives owners more say in their draft spots than any other contest out there. Again, when a few bucks or a travelling trophy or bragging rights are on the line, 12-team leagues without KDS or 3RR makes sense. But when folks are plunking down a month's salary to play fantasy football -- or more -- maybe the format should be the fairest way for everyone to compete for the grand prize. 3RR was designed to balance the power in the NFFC this year and I hope it does make all leagues more competitive. But 3RR has also made KDS better because with Third Round Reversal folks have a different view of what spots are the most valuable on Draft Day. Some folks like the front of the draft, some prefer the back-end and some have even requested the middle picks. It's amazing how different each KDS list is and it's also amazing how it seems most owners get one of their preferred choices each draft. We've run a few satellite leagues so far and for the most part owners are getting one of their top four or five preferences. The recent NFFC Magazine II league is a perfect example as 10 of the 14 owners got their Top 4 preference. Only one owner got a preference lower than 7th. Now no matter how you slice it, knowing that 13 of 14 owners got a draft spot that was in their top half is good news for everyone. Everyone is drafting in a spot that doesn't tick 'em off and some got spots exactly where they wanted. How can any of that be bad for fantasy football participants at this price level?I agree, that the NFFC is now unique and different from the masses. Maybe we're too non-traditional. But I trust our participants will enjoy the experience and our return rate will increase with each passing season. And in time, maybe other high-stakes contests will realize that with this much money on the line, balancing the playing field is as important as bringing in the highest number of participants. Because what it comes down to is that every owner just wants a fair shot at the grand prize. Honestly, I think the NFFC offers that better than any other contest out there.I hope this helps explain why we're using 3RR in the NFFC this year. The concept makes sense for our participants and once you try it, you'll feel a bit short-handed from the back-end of the draft without it.Greg Ambrosius

 

[Greg Ambrosius - NFFC]

Sorry, one other point: We use 3RR not the banzai example

It's 1-14 in Round 1

14-1 in Round 2

14-1 in Round 3

1-14 in Round 4 and continuing in serpentine fashion after that.

What 3RR does is prevent the LT owner from getting the best running back and then also the best player in Round 3. I just did an Experts League draft where the No. 1 owner got LT, Larry Fitzgerald and Reggie Wayne. Not a bad start. Now imagine if the No. 12 team could have added Reggie Wayne to his first two picks (Laurence Maroney and Maurice Jones-Drew). He took Lee Evans at the end of Round 3, but Wayne would have definitely been an upgrade. And of course, the No. 1 team wouldn't be as powerful with Evans instead of Wayne on his team.

It's not all about LT and LJ and S-Jax. It's really about that third round pick who makes those early pick teams so tough to beat.

But again, 3RR isn't for every league and every contest. This is just our way of trying to even the playing field in our high-stakes contest. It's no problem if we're the only one playing this way. Our customers asked for it and we've complied. Good luck everyone this year in whatever format you use.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Sorry, one other point: We use 3RR not the banzai example

It's 1-14 in Round 1

14-1 in Round 2

14-1 in Round 3

1-14 in Round 4 and continuing in serpentine fashion after that.

What 3RR does is prevent the LT owner from getting the best running back and then also the best player in Round 3. I just did an Experts League draft where the No. 1 owner got LT, Larry Fitzgerald and Reggie Wayne. Not a bad start. Now imagine if the No. 12 team could have added Reggie Wayne to his first two picks (Laurence Maroney and Maurice Jones-Drew). He took Lee Evans at the end of Round 3, but Wayne would have definitely been an upgrade. And of course, the No. 1 team wouldn't be as powerful with Evans instead of Wayne on his team.

It's not all about LT and LJ and S-Jax. It's really about that third round pick who makes those early pick teams so tough to beat.

But again, 3RR isn't for every league and every contest. This is just our way of trying to even the playing field in our high-stakes contest. It's no problem if we're the only one playing this way. Our customers asked for it and we've complied. Good luck everyone this year in whatever format you use.

Thats a 3RS.You simply do a reverse serpentine starting at round 3.

If you actually did a 3rd round reversal... you would simply reverse the 3rd round and leave everything else the same.

Despite you confusing the nomenclature, you have done a very good thing for fantasy by implementing 3RS.

 

[Greg Ambrosius - NFFC]

Sorry, one other point: We use 3RR not the banzai example

It's 1-14 in Round 1

14-1 in Round 2

14-1 in Round 3

1-14 in Round 4 and continuing in serpentine fashion after that.

What 3RR does is prevent the LT owner from getting the best running back and then also the best player in Round 3. I just did an Experts League draft where the No. 1 owner got LT, Larry Fitzgerald and Reggie Wayne. Not a bad start. Now imagine if the No. 12 team could have added Reggie Wayne to his first two picks (Laurence Maroney and Maurice Jones-Drew). He took Lee Evans at the end of Round 3, but Wayne would have definitely been an upgrade. And of course, the No. 1 team wouldn't be as powerful with Evans instead of Wayne on his team.

It's not all about LT and LJ and S-Jax. It's really about that third round pick who makes those early pick teams so tough to beat.

But again, 3RR isn't for every league and every contest. This is just our way of trying to even the playing field in our high-stakes contest. It's no problem if we're the only one playing this way. Our customers asked for it and we've complied. Good luck everyone this year in whatever format you use.

Thats a 3RS.You simply do a reverse serpentine starting at round 3.

If you actually did a 3rd round reversal... you would simply reverse the 3rd round and leave everything else the same.

Despite you confusing the nomenclature, you have done a very good thing for fantasy by implementing 3RS.

Thanks for the clarification, but the cat's out of the bag. We'll forever call this 3RR, even though you are correct that it should be 3RS. If this ever catches on, we'll have to clarify this for the historians!! I think 3RR will be good for the NFFC, but mainly because we are combining it with KDS. The two work very well together. 3RR alone could still give folks draft spots they hate. KDS with 3RR together gives most folks draft spots that they are happy with and at $1300 a pop, that's a good thing!!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Why not make a subtle update. And get it corrected?

You are at the onset of it all. Would be nice to have it proper early on.

Also, you would think an organization that was big time and its users paid "big money" you would gladly correct and fix what was incorrect. Maybe not.

 

[Captain Hook]

Why not make a subtle update. And get it corrected?You are at the onset of it all. Would be nice to have it proper early on.Also, you would think an organization that was big time and its users paid "big money" you would gladly correct and fix what was incorrect. Maybe not.

I have never seen the banzai method called 3RR.Since the NFFC is reversing the order of the draft from there on out, I am not sure why this name doesn't work - admittedly you might find better names for both methods, but they have been in print for a year using that name for the proposed change, so I don't see why they should change it now (and confuse more people)

 

[Fantasy Strategist]

I'll probably write up an article about it as I'm likely to be in at least one league with 3RR.

NFFC and Rotobowl are both using it. NFFC has 14 teams, Rotobowl 12.

I did a cursory check on the math (looking at the first 16 rounds of a 12-teamer, just adding up the values).

In a normal serpentine:



1: 6474

12: 6100

Difference: 6.1%

All the 12 picks slide downward in value as expected (ranging between 6474 and 6100).

In the 3RR:

1: 6359

12: 6215

Here's the odd thing - the middle gets hosed in 3RR. Pick #8 is actually the worst according to the chart values, getting 6187 points.

Perfect...I have pick 8 and 9 in my two leagues...

The good news? Even at 6187, you're only 2.8% lower than Pick #1.

Of course this is all about pick values, not players and talent.

 

[Fantasy Strategist]

Who wants to clarify the difference for me here...Bonzai, 3RR, 3RS and Double-Snake...confirm or deny what I type below please...

Bonazai and 3RR

1-14

14-1

14-1

14-1

1-14

snake

3RS ?

1-14

14-1

14-1

1-14

14-1

snake

Double Snake

1-14

14-1

14-1

1-14

1-14

14-1

14-1

etc

We changed this a few years back to the Double Snake and love it...I am curious which one the NFFC is using as it's confusing from the above comments...Also the Bonzai seems pretty bottom heavy...no way I would take 2 or 3 over 14...still take 1 of course with LT but the 2nd and 3rd picks are not in the same bucket in my opinion anyway

 

[Captain Hook]

NFFC is using

1-14

14-1

14-1

1-14

14-1

1-14

etc

Just changing the order for the rest of the draft beginning with the 3rd round

 

[Fantasy Strategist]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

 

[Fantasy Strategist]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

Thank you...looks like we may have to change to the 3rd round reversal next year...double snake is close but not as fair...surprised this isn't an option in the DD...if Bruce is listening....

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

Thank you...looks like we may have to change to the 3rd round reversal next year...double snake is close but not as fair...surprised this isn't an option in the DD...if Bruce is listening....

Maybe Jeff will post the... 1-12

12-1

12-1

12-1

1-12

calculations. Should be even better.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

Thank you...looks like we may have to change to the 3rd round reversal next year...double snake is close but not as fair...surprised this isn't an option in the DD...if Bruce is listening....

Maybe Jeff will post the... 1-12

12-1

12-1

12-1

1-12

calculations. Should be even better.

Whoops - all my answers have been for 12 teams I believe.I'll work on that article for next week - I'll do 10 thru 16 teams.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

Thank you...looks like we may have to change to the 3rd round reversal next year...double snake is close but not as fair...surprised this isn't an option in the DD...if Bruce is listening....

Maybe Jeff will post the... 1-12

12-1

12-1

12-1

1-12

calculations. Should be even better.

Whoops - all my answers have been for 12 teams I believe.I'll work on that article for next week - I'll do 10 thru 16 teams.

You didnt do the one I posted yet though, have you Jeff?1-12

12-1

12-1

12-1

1-12

12-1

....

I saw the other two ways you did it for.

In the 3RR:

1: 6359

12: 6215

Again, the damn confusion sets in (thanks Greg )The above quote is....

1-12

12-1

12-1

1-12 and serp., correct?

 

[oukurt]

Has anyone compared the Double Snake to just switching the 3rd round and leaving the rest of the draft as is?...whatever it's "officailly called"...When we switched to DS we were only comparing it to the regular Snake with is completely unfair...it becomes where you pick rather than who you pick...anyway...we had all the values done with the DS but they are no where to be found just wondering if someone has all the values handy between all the different ways of drafting...yes I could do it manually but I'm feeling lazy today...

Same math as before (adding up calculator values):

Double Snake:

1st: 6380

12th: 6194

10th: 6178

Delta: 3.0% (1st to 12th)

Delta: 3.3% (1st to 10th, worst)

Thank you...looks like we may have to change to the 3rd round reversal next year...double snake is close but not as fair...surprised this isn't an option in the DD...if Bruce is listening....

Maybe Jeff will post the... 1-12

12-1

12-1

12-1

1-12

calculations. Should be even better.

Whoops - all my answers have been for 12 teams I believe.I'll work on that article for next week - I'll do 10 thru 16 teams.

Did you get to this yet, Jeff? Curious as to what the results are.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Guys, these articles don't appear overnight.... I'm catching up on other items for the site, but this will be the next article I write.

3RR isn't covered anywhere else to my knowledge, so I want to be sure to be thorough.

 

[oukurt]

It was just a friendly bump after 3 weeks, Jeff. I don't expect it overnight either. Was just wanting to find out if you still planned on writing the article on it is all.

Muchas gracias!

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Ok, finally did the massive math.

The most fair method (meaning all 12-16 spots are close in value) is.....

True 3RR (Flipping the 3rd round ONLY).

I'll break that down for 12/14/16 teams and against 3RS (NFFC/Rotobowl style), normal snake and double-serpentine in an article next.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You mean the true BANZAI method.





Save the fantasy world the agravation and confusion Jeff. Use it. :(

And thanks for crunching the "massive math", lord knows that chewed up some serious time.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

You mean the true BANZAI method. Save the fantasy world the agravation and confusion Jeff. Use it. And thanks for crunching the "massive math", lord knows that chewed up some serious time.

You will be happy to know that the word "Banzai" will be in the article.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You mean the true BANZAI method. Save the fantasy world the agravation and confusion Jeff. Use it. And thanks for crunching the "massive math", lord knows that chewed up some serious time.

You will be happy to know that the word "Banzai" will be in the article.

Where do I send your check? But seriously, it would make everything so much easier for the long haul, considering what NFFC (roto) has put forth.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

Pasquino is THE MAN. Good job, Jeff

 

[gordon gekko]

Ok, finally did the massive math.The most fair method (meaning all 12-16 spots are close in value) is.....True 3RR (Flipping the 3rd round ONLY).I'll break that down for 12/14/16 teams and against 3RS (NFFC/Rotobowl style), normal snake and double-serpentine in an article next.

this should be an interesting one to read. my initial take is that with true 3RR (in larger leagues 14+), the late draft slots would be powerhouses.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ok, finally did the massive math.The most fair method (meaning all 12-16 spots are close in value) is.....True 3RR (Flipping the 3rd round ONLY).I'll break that down for 12/14/16 teams and against 3RS (NFFC/Rotobowl style), normal snake and double-serpentine in an article next.

this should be an interesting one to read. my initial take is that with true 3RR (in larger leagues 14+), the late draft slots would be powerhouses.

Weve done it for a few years in 16 teamer... its all pretty damn even. Having the heavy hitter at the top of #1 is still very nice, but getting the early picks round 2,3,4 is nice also. And the middle still holds its value pretty well and is never shorted in any run. Overall, the Banzai method is just a really even style.

 

[ramsfan]

Ok, finally did the massive math.The most fair method (meaning all 12-16 spots are close in value) is.....True 3RR (Flipping the 3rd round ONLY).I'll break that down for 12/14/16 teams and against 3RS (NFFC/Rotobowl style), normal snake and double-serpentine in an article next.

Thanks Jeff.Ok, I want to self report myself for the next request being greedy, selfish, and inconsiderateCan you add a 10 team to that? Here's hoping that is not too difficult, as every league I commish is 10 team.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'll probably write up an article about it as I'm likely to be in at least one league with 3RR.

NFFC and Rotobowl are both using it. NFFC has 14 teams, Rotobowl 12.

I did a cursory check on the math (looking at the first 16 rounds of a 12-teamer, just adding up the values).

In a normal serpentine:



1: 6474

12: 6100

Difference: 6.1%

All the 12 picks slide downward in value as expected (ranging between 6474 and 6100).

In the 3RR:

1: 6359

12: 6215

Here's the odd thing - the middle gets hosed in 3RR. Pick #8 is actually the worst according to the chart values, getting 6187 points.

The good news? Even at 6187, you're only 2.8% lower than Pick #1.

Of course this is all about pick values, not players and talent.

The complete article is posted on this, 12, 14 and 16 teams as of today.Enjoy.

Third Round Reversal of Fortune

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I thoroughly enjoyed the article on the value of each draft position with the 3RR being the most "fair". The more teams in the league the greater the value of using this method. I would be interested in seeing what the difference would be in a 10 team redraft. I believe the conclusions are likely to be similar but I'm curious if the difference is significant enough to warrant a change in my league this year.

Thanks!

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I thoroughly enjoyed the article on the value of each draft position with the 3RR being the most "fair". The more teams in the league the greater the value of using this method. I would be interested in seeing what the difference would be in a 10 team redraft. I believe the conclusions are likely to be similar but I'm curious if the difference is significant enough to warrant a change in my league this year. Thanks!

I would either post this in the pinned "Trader Joe" thread at the top of this forum (that is Jeff Pasquino's thread), or PM him, since he penned those articles.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I thoroughly enjoyed the article on the value of each draft position with the 3RR being the most "fair". The more teams in the league the greater the value of using this method. I would be interested in seeing what the difference would be in a 10 team redraft. I believe the conclusions are likely to be similar but I'm curious if the difference is significant enough to warrant a change in my league this year. Thanks!

I would either post this in the pinned "Trader Joe" thread at the top of this forum (that is Jeff Pasquino's thread), or PM him, since he penned those articles.

already PM'ed him and he told me to post a thread and he would respond.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Great article Jeff.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I would either post this in the pinned "Trader Joe" thread at the top of this forum (that is Jeff Pasquino's thread), or PM him, since he penned those articles.

already PM'ed him and he told me to post a thread and he would respond.

I didn't want to post it in the shark pool and have everyone get all upset if they didn't deem it a true "shark pool" thread and I didn't want to put it in Trader Joe because I'm not asking for advice on a trade or specific players on my team. I'm trying to play by the FBG rules here....

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

This looks like a SP thread to me since it is general enough (10 team league) not team or league specific.

 

[ImTheScientist]

All the data is there....just do the math

 

[greggorymac]

This looks like a SP thread to me since it is general enough (10 team league) not team or league specific.

Jeff,Can you post a link to the article he is referencing? Thanks.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I thoroughly enjoyed the article on the value of each draft position with the 3RR being the most "fair". The more teams in the league the greater the value of using this method. I would be interested in seeing what the difference would be in a 10 team redraft. I believe the conclusions are likely to be similar but I'm curious if the difference is significant enough to warrant a change in my league this year. Thanks!

Glad you enjoyed it weevol.Perhaps I should have included a 10-team version, and I still may.The same answer comes out - 3RR "wins" for least disparity across the board.

Format											   Normal	 3RR	3RS	Double Snake						   First 4 Rds			 6%	   3%	3%	   3%						   First 6 Rds			 5%	   2%	2%	   3%						   First 8 Rds			 4%	   2%	2%	   2%						   First 10 Rds			4%	   2%	2%	   2%						   First 12 Rds			4%	   2%	2%	   2%						   First 16 Rds			4%	   1%	2%	   2%

With so few teams, 3RR vs 3RS vs Double snake matters very little between them all, but all 3 are better than the regular snake.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

This looks like a SP thread to me since it is general enough (10 team league) not team or league specific.

Jeff,Can you post a link to the article he is referencing? Thanks.

Third Round Reversal of Fortune

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Great article Jeff.

Thanks, but now we're swimming in threads on this.....Time for a merger or a lock.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

All the data is there....just do the math

I'm no scientist!

 

[oukurt]

Just noticed your article on the subject is up, Jeff . Thanks for putting in the time. Off to read it.

For those interested in the pick values from each spot for 14 team leagues, here are the numbers for 3 alternative drafting styles.

1 28 29 56 57 84 4945

2 27 30 55 58 83 4889

3 26 31 54 59 82 4836

4 25 32 53 60 81 4790

5 24 33 52 61 80 4746

6 23 34 51 62 79 4709

7 22 35 50 63 78 4675

8 21 36 49 64 77 4645

9 20 37 48 65 76 4621

10 19 38 47 66 75 4599

11 18 39 46 67 74 4585

12 17 40 45 68 73 4571

13 16 41 44 69 72 4563

14 15 42 43 70 71 4561

Standard

1 28 42 56 57 84 4763

2 27 41 55 58 83 4735

3 26 40 54 59 82 4710

4 25 39 53 60 81 4693

5 24 38 52 61 80 4677

6 23 37 51 62 79 4668

7 22 36 50 63 78 4661

8 21 35 49 64 77 4659

9 20 34 48 65 76 4662

10 19 33 47 66 75 4668

11 18 32 46 67 74 4682

12 17 31 45 68 73 4697

13 16 30 44 69 72 4717

14 15 29 43 70 71 4743

Bonzai (only 3rd Reversed)

1 28 42 43 70 71 4887

2 27 41 44 69 72 4837

3 26 40 45 68 73 4795

4 25 39 46 67 74 4759

5 24 38 47 66 75 4724

6 23 37 48 65 76 4696

7 22 36 49 64 77 4670

8 21 35 50 63 78 4650

9 20 34 51 62 79 4634

10 19 33 52 61 80 4621

11 18 32 53 60 81 4616

12 17 31 54 59 82 4612

13 16 30 55 58 83 4615

14 15 29 56 57 84 4619

3RSR (Entire Draft Switches at 3rd round)

 

[BigSteelThrill]

1 28 42 56 57 84 4763 2 27 41 55 58 83 4735 3 26 40 54 59 82 4710 4 25 39 53 60 81 4693 5 24 38 52 61 80 4677 6 23 37 51 62 79 4668 7 22 36 50 63 78 4661 8 21 35 49 64 77 4659 9 20 34 48 65 76 4662 10 19 33 47 66 75 4668 11 18 32 46 67 74 4682 12 17 31 45 68 73 4697 13 16 30 44 69 72 4717 14 15 29 43 70 71 4743 Banzai (only 3rd Reversed)

Thats stellar.From a 400 point seperation (at worst - standard) down to 105 (at worst - banzai).

 

[David Dodds]

1 28 42 56 57 84 4763 2 27 41 55 58 83 4735 3 26 40 54 59 82 4710 4 25 39 53 60 81 4693 5 24 38 52 61 80 4677 6 23 37 51 62 79 4668 7 22 36 50 63 78 4661 8 21 35 49 64 77 4659 9 20 34 48 65 76 4662 10 19 33 47 66 75 4668 11 18 32 46 67 74 4682 12 17 31 45 68 73 4697 13 16 30 44 69 72 4717 14 15 29 43 70 71 4743 Banzai (only 3rd Reversed)

Thats stellar.From a 400 point seperation (at worst - standard) down to 105 (at worst - banzai).

Additionally the "mathematical" worse teams are in the middle. But the middle has the advantage of potentially finding value with every pick (Drafting from the ends usually produces one value play at most and then a normal pick because the value play was just taken). So all said this method looks 100% fair to me. Even RSS (used at NFFC) with Kentucky Derby seeding (people say what picks they prefer) seems very fair. It will be interesting to see if this takes hold because serpentine drafting definitely favors the top spots.