Through 4 weeks, who is the league MVP? DPOY? (1 Viewer)

[Adam Harstad]

Not sure if I'm reading this chart right, but there are 5 WRs ahead of Brown.

Really?

There are 12 WRs ahead of Antonio Brown in WPA, but again, WPA is highly context-dependent. Guys who make plays in close games get huge WPA boosts. Guys who play in blowouts get very little WPA.

Only T.Y. Hilton and Randall Cobb have more EPA than Antonio Brown, which seems fair enough. Cobb leads the league in TDs. Hilton leads the league in receiving yards and receiving first downs. Both have done it on fewer targets. Not saying they've been better than Antonio Brown, (or than Jordy Nelson, who has also been phenomenal this season), just saying there's a pretty good reason why they're scoring so high in the metric.

 

[jurb26]

Mid way report.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000418820/article/nfl-midseason-predictions-mvp-rookie-of-the-year-and-more

By and large consensus.

MVP, Manning

OPOY, Murray

DPOY, Watt

OROY, Warkins but this is clearly the most cloudy.

DROY, Mosley

 

[Bri]

Not sure if I'm reading this chart right, but there are 5 WRs ahead of Brown.

Really?

There are 12 WRs ahead of Antonio Brown in WPA, but again, WPA is highly context-dependent. Guys who make plays in close games get huge WPA boosts. Guys who play in blowouts get very little WPA.

Only T.Y. Hilton and Randall Cobb have more EPA than Antonio Brown, which seems fair enough. Cobb leads the league in TDs. Hilton leads the league in receiving yards and receiving first downs. Both have done it on fewer targets. Not saying they've been better than Antonio Brown, (or than Jordy Nelson, who has also been phenomenal this season), just saying there's a pretty good reason why they're scoring so high in the metric.

worst chart ever

 

[treat88]

JJ Watt as MVP and DPOY

Kelvin Benjamin as OROY with Travis Frederick a very close second.

CJ Moseley as DPOY.

 

[FUBAR]

Edit: This handy chart pretty clearly shows the current leaders.

further evidence that this is the best QB award.

Am I reading this wrong or is it really saying Stafford and Palmer are more valuable than Watt?

Stafford would almost certainly be picked in a startup before Watt. It's a QB-driven league.

I would rather have Stafford & Von Miller than Watt & 20th+ best QB.

I'm not going to argue against that, but your point simply agrees with my original comment.

 

[Adam Harstad]

JJ Watt as MVP and DPOY

Kelvin Benjamin as OROY with Travis Frederick a very close second.

CJ Moseley as DPOY.

Travis Frederick is not a rookie.

 

[jon_mx]

JJ Watt as MVP and DPOY

Kelvin Benjamin as OROY with Travis Frederick a very close second.

CJ Moseley as DPOY.

Travis Frederick is not a rookie.

That is why he is second.

 

[meatwad1]

How about Mark Ingram?

 

[Run It Up]

A challenger appears.

 

[Adam Harstad]

A challenger appears.

#GronkSmash

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

How about Mark Ingram?

He's not a rookie, either.

 

[jurb26]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Crazy week for handicapping the MVP race, as Rivers and DeMarco take a tumble (it is really hard to argue now against Romo being Dallas' MVP) out of the top 5, and Roethlisberger and either Brady or Gronk enter it.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

I'd still take Gronk over Brady. I mean, what has changed between the first four weeks of the season and the last five weeks of the season, other than Gronkowski getting healthy and getting a bigger workload?

 

[jurb26]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

I'd still take Gronk over Brady. I mean, what has changed between the first four weeks of the season and the last five weeks of the season, other than Gronkowski getting healthy and getting a bigger workload?

Then I guess A. Mack is also in the hunt, right?

 

[Adam Harstad]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

I'd still take Gronk over Brady. I mean, what has changed between the first four weeks of the season and the last five weeks of the season, other than Gronkowski getting healthy and getting a bigger workload?

Then I guess A. Mack is also in the hunt, right?

If Cleveland was a top-5 offense with Mack on the field, I'd be willing to entertain arguments.

 

[Workhorse]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

I'd still take Gronk over Brady. I mean, what has changed between the first four weeks of the season and the last five weeks of the season, other than Gronkowski getting healthy and getting a bigger workload?

If you watch Brady over the past five games, he has been much more "pocket aware" than in the first four games - Frequently rolling away/stepping up from pressure to buy a few extra seconds to allow receivers to get open. Watch his key plays from yesterday and it happened pretty regularly. Brady has been working on this recently: http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/content/20141022-tom-bradys-trying-to-improve-his-mobility-in-the-pocket.ece

 

[Run It Up]

A lot has changed for Brady, has confidence in his defense, receivers more comfortable in the offense, Gronk is 100% and the oline is settled.

All of them are pretty big imo.

 

[TD Ryan]

A lot has changed for Brady, has confidence in his defense, receivers more comfortable in the offense, Gronk is 100% and the oline is settled.

All of them are pretty big imo.

all true.

Additionally, his attitude seemed to change after the KC game - it was evident early in the CIN game when he scrambled/ran for positive yards putting himself at risk... he's playing fearless now and he wasn't before... and I think it's human nature to be like that after you feel like all-is-lost and/or you have nothing to lose.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Ben and Brady officially enter the race.

I'd still take Gronk over Brady. I mean, what has changed between the first four weeks of the season and the last five weeks of the season, other than Gronkowski getting healthy and getting a bigger workload?

If you watch Brady over the past five games, he has been much more "pocket aware" than in the first four games - Frequently rolling away/stepping up from pressure to buy a few extra seconds to allow receivers to get open. Watch his key plays from yesterday and it happened pretty regularly. Brady has been working on this recently: http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/content/20141022-tom-bradys-trying-to-improve-his-mobility-in-the-pocket.ece

Yeah, the O-Line improvement has also been pretty big. I just think Healthy Gronk has a huge domino effect on the rest of that offense. His numbers alone are massive. A lot of New England's screens work because Gronk mauls his man at the point of attack. Defenses rush fewer players when Gronk is out in pass patterns because he commands so much defensive respect. Everything on offense gets just that much easier with the big guy on the field.

 

[Anarchy99]

Right or wrong, history has shown the guy throwing the football gets the credit, not the guy catching it. So Brady will get the consideration, not Gronk.

 

[Run It Up]

If Gronk and Brady finish strong, gotta give the nod to Brady over Gronk at that point. Gronk is a man, but Brady is spreading it around just fine.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Right or wrong, history has shown the guy throwing the football gets the credit, not the guy catching it. So Brady will get the consideration, not Gronk.

No question. In 1987, many voted for Montana over Rice, (and the 49ers split is probably what let Elway wind up winning it), and that was one of the greatest WR seasons of all time. In 1982, Wes Chandler had an even greater season (he only played 8 games due to the player strike, but put up 49/1032/9- a 98/2064/18 pace!), and he didn't receiving a single MVP vote, though his quarterback got 33 (and still lost to a kicker).

It's an is/ought distinction, though. Tom Brady almost certainly is a better MVP candidate, but I think Rob Gronkowski ought to be, instead.

 

[OnTheReg]

Brady is absolutely in the conversation. And if he has a great game this coming Sunday and beats Peyton, will be even more so.

Brady might be in the conversation by the end of the year, but right now he's not in the top 20. It's a season-long award, and over the first four games Tom Brady averaged just 5.8 yards per attempt with a passer rating under 80. That's atrocious. He's been En Fuego since then, but as of this very moment, those four atrocious games represent half of his season so far. You can't be in the MVP conversation if you were atrocious for half of the season.

Besides, you notice how Brady going all En Fuego happened to coincide with Rob Gronkowski getting healthy, back in shape, and earning back his full snap count? Brady wouldn't be my pick even if the "P" in MVP stood for "Patriot".

Edit: This handy chart pretty clearly shows the current leaders.

This comment deserves to be bumped. One week ago you said Brady didn't deserve to be in the top 20. Now? He's probably in the lead.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/147924/nfl-nation-midseason-mvp-tom-brady

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brady is absolutely in the conversation. And if he has a great game this coming Sunday and beats Peyton, will be even more so.

Brady might be in the conversation by the end of the year, but right now he's not in the top 20. It's a season-long award, and over the first four games Tom Brady averaged just 5.8 yards per attempt with a passer rating under 80. That's atrocious. He's been En Fuego since then, but as of this very moment, those four atrocious games represent half of his season so far. You can't be in the MVP conversation if you were atrocious for half of the season.

Besides, you notice how Brady going all En Fuego happened to coincide with Rob Gronkowski getting healthy, back in shape, and earning back his full snap count? Brady wouldn't be my pick even if the "P" in MVP stood for "Patriot".

Edit: This handy chart pretty clearly shows the current leaders.

This comment deserves to be bumped. One week ago you said Brady didn't deserve to be in the top 20. Now? He's probably in the lead.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/147924/nfl-nation-midseason-mvp-tom-brady

32 votes and Aaron Rodgers doesn't get one? That's pretty awful.

 

[steelers1080]

Martavis Bryant. He's catching a touchdown every other pass! 10 catches, 5 TDs.

Also, the Steelers completely turned around after he came in.

 

[spider321]

JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

He should win both.

 

[Ghost Rider]

JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

He should win both.

His team is under .500 and has the 12th best record in the AFC. It really is a shame his greatness and prime is being wasted on a team with a crappy QB.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Brady is absolutely in the conversation. And if he has a great game this coming Sunday and beats Peyton, will be even more so.

Brady might be in the conversation by the end of the year, but right now he's not in the top 20. It's a season-long award, and over the first four games Tom Brady averaged just 5.8 yards per attempt with a passer rating under 80. That's atrocious. He's been En Fuego since then, but as of this very moment, those four atrocious games represent half of his season so far. You can't be in the MVP conversation if you were atrocious for half of the season.

Besides, you notice how Brady going all En Fuego happened to coincide with Rob Gronkowski getting healthy, back in shape, and earning back his full snap count? Brady wouldn't be my pick even if the "P" in MVP stood for "Patriot".

Edit: This handy chart pretty clearly shows the current leaders.

This comment deserves to be bumped. One week ago you said Brady didn't deserve to be in the top 20. Now? He's probably in the lead.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/147924/nfl-nation-midseason-mvp-tom-brady

Tom Brady has been absolutely sensational for the last 56% of the season.

Like I said, he might be in the discussion by the end of the year, but it seems kind of crazy to give a season-long award to a guy who has, to this point, been mediocre (charitably) over nearly half of the season.

 

[Tau837]

Brady is absolutely in the conversation. And if he has a great game this coming Sunday and beats Peyton, will be even more so.

Brady might be in the conversation by the end of the year, but right now he's not in the top 20. It's a season-long award, and over the first four games Tom Brady averaged just 5.8 yards per attempt with a passer rating under 80. That's atrocious. He's been En Fuego since then, but as of this very moment, those four atrocious games represent half of his season so far. You can't be in the MVP conversation if you were atrocious for half of the season.

Besides, you notice how Brady going all En Fuego happened to coincide with Rob Gronkowski getting healthy, back in shape, and earning back his full snap count? Brady wouldn't be my pick even if the "P" in MVP stood for "Patriot".

Edit: This handy chart pretty clearly shows the current leaders.

This comment deserves to be bumped. One week ago you said Brady didn't deserve to be in the top 20. Now? He's probably in the lead.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/147924/nfl-nation-midseason-mvp-tom-brady

32 votes and Aaron Rodgers doesn't get one? That's pretty awful.

Well, they did have a bye this week.

 

[ZWK]

MVP: Rodgers (Manning)

DPOY: Watt

OROY: Evans (Benjamin, Bitonio, Martin, Watkins, Lewan)

DROY: Donald (Mack, Barr, Mosley)

 

[FUBAR]

MVP: Rodgers (Manning)

DPOY: Watt

OROY: Evans (Benjamin, Bitonio, Martin, Watkins, Lewan)

DROY: Donald (Mack, Barr, Mosley)

Right now:

MVP: Brady (Murray, Peyton, Rodgers)

DPOY: Watt (Houston, Kuechly, Woodson, Suh)

OROY: Benjamin (Watkins, Martin, Bitonio)

DROY: Mack (Mosley, Borland, Barr)

COY: Arians (BB, Caldwell, Reid)

Evans and Borland have a really good chance to win it at the end.

Suh doesn't get the stats but he's the main reason the Lions have a top D and are in 1st.

Many of you will disagree with Reid's inclusion as a top coach, but taking FF out of this, he's doing a a great job in KC.

 

[jurb26]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

 

[Anarchy99]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

 

[jurb26]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben. So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

 

[FUBAR]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

 

[jurb26]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

 

[Run It Up]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

Going into last week Brady and Rodgers both had 3 ints on the year, Ben had 5 and Manning had 7. Last week Brady threw two more, Ben threw one more and Manning threw two more.

Manning is on a three game multiple interception streak.

Brady and Rodgers are playing really well. Brady has a tough stretch coming up, after already blowing out Denver and Indy, they've got Detroit, Green Bay and San Diego.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Rodgers has clearly been better.

Agreed. As things stand today, I don't think there's much of an argument for anyone other than Rodgers at MVP.

 

[FUBAR]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

no. In FF, sure. In real football? It's at least debatable.

Rodgers needs the Packers to win against a few good teams before I'd put him ahead of Brady. They beat Philly which is big, but Tom's team has beaten two of the best teams in the NFL in the last two weeks, he has a chance to beat a third top tier team this week. You could argue that wins are a team effort and shouldn't matter for MVP, but they clearly do, especially for QB without a record breaking season.

 

[justinl]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

no. In FF, sure. In real football? It's at least debatable.

Rodgers needs the Packers to win against a few good teams before I'd put him ahead of Brady. They beat Philly which is big, but Tom's team has beaten two of the best teams in the NFL in the last two weeks, he has a chance to beat a third top tier team this week. You could argue that wins are a team effort and shouldn't matter for MVP, but they clearly do, especially for QB without a record breaking season.

Brady/Rodgers will be decided when they go head to head. But I don't know how you don't look beyond the stats and see that Brady is the front runner.

 

[Phenomena]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

no. In FF, sure. In real football? It's at least debatable.

Rodgers needs the Packers to win against a few good teams before I'd put him ahead of Brady. They beat Philly which is big, but Tom's team has beaten two of the best teams in the NFL in the last two weeks, he has a chance to beat a third top tier team this week. You could argue that wins are a team effort and shouldn't matter for MVP, but they clearly do, especially for QB without a record breaking season.

Brady/Rodgers will be decided when they go head to head. But I don't know how you don't look beyond the stats and see that Brady is the front runner.

I honestly don't see how you can rank Brady ahead of Rodgers. Brady's game is trash when Gronk is hurt. Rodgers' games when Nelson/Cobb were out, and when he didn't have the running game he has now, was still stratospheric.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Rodgers is the clear winner right now. He has to play well for the Packers to win, similar to Peyton and Denver. The Patriots can win by 20+ against a top 4 AFC team on the road even when Brady plays like ### for a half. If Rodgers or Peyton has a half like Brady did Sunday against a good team, their teams aren't winning.

 

[Run It Up]

Rodgers is the clear winner right now. He has to play well for the Packers to win, similar to Peyton and Denver. The Patriots can win by 20+ against a top 4 AFC team on the road even when Brady plays like ### for a half. If Rodgers or Peyton has a half like Brady did Sunday against a good team, their teams aren't winning.

Lmfao what?

So at the beginning of the year, when the Pats were floundering, all the blame was on Brady. Now, when the Pats are leading the conference and have beaten three of the previously 'best' teams in the league this season the success is everyone but his. Rodgers and Brady have both been playing lights out the last month and a half, if you don't think its close you're ####### nuts.

Going into the game with the Broncos the consensus was that the Broncos actually had the better defense, and forget about the weapons - they have the best offensive unit in all of football. The Packers have two top 10 WRs. The Pats have Gronk, who's apparently the best player in football cause hes single handily responsible for the Pats offensive success, or at least thats what I keep hearing.

Its bull#### to pretend that the Packers and Broncos are somehow devoid of talent outside of the QB position, Tim Tebow could come back from casting college games and lead the Broncos to a first round bye. Brady and Rodgers have seperated themselves from the pack by playing mistake free football, Brady made two bad passes this Sunday, and they were glaringly obvious, the duck before the half being absolutely awful - they're the only reason I have Rodgers ahead of Brady atm.

In two weeks, I think the picture will be much clearer.

 

[Buckna]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

 

[justinl]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

no. In FF, sure. In real football? It's at least debatable.

Rodgers needs the Packers to win against a few good teams before I'd put him ahead of Brady. They beat Philly which is big, but Tom's team has beaten two of the best teams in the NFL in the last two weeks, he has a chance to beat a third top tier team this week. You could argue that wins are a team effort and shouldn't matter for MVP, but they clearly do, especially for QB without a record breaking season.

Brady/Rodgers will be decided when they go head to head. But I don't know how you don't look beyond the stats and see that Brady is the front runner.

I honestly don't see how you can rank Brady ahead of Rodgers. Brady's game is trash when Gronk is hurt. Rodgers' games when Nelson/Cobb were out, and when he didn't have the running game he has now, was still stratospheric.

I didn't realize that Cobb, Nelson and Lacy missed time, since Cobb or Nelson have been 1 or 2 in receiving if not 1 and 2 in every game. But to put them on the same level as the WRs that NE has is pretty bold.

 

[Anarchy99]

Accoring to New England Sports Network, they rank the top candidates as follows:

1 - Aaron Rodgers

2 - Tom Brady

3 - J.J. Watt

4 - Rob Gronkowski

5 - Peyton Manning

6 - DeMarco Murray

7 - Andrew Luck

 

[Ghost Rider]

Rodgers is the clear winner right now. He has to play well for the Packers to win, similar to Peyton and Denver. The Patriots can win by 20+ against a top 4 AFC team on the road even when Brady plays like ### for a half. If Rodgers or Peyton has a half like Brady did Sunday against a good team, their teams aren't winning.

Lmfao what?

So at the beginning of the year, when the Pats were floundering, all the blame was on Brady. Now, when the Pats are leading the conference and have beaten three of the previously 'best' teams in the league this season the success is everyone but his. Rodgers and Brady have both been playing lights out the last month and a half, if you don't think its close you're ####### nuts.

Going into the game with the Broncos the consensus was that the Broncos actually had the better defense, and forget about the weapons - they have the best offensive unit in all of football. The Packers have two top 10 WRs. The Pats have Gronk, who's apparently the best player in football cause hes single handily responsible for the Pats offensive success, or at least thats what I keep hearing.

Its bull#### to pretend that the Packers and Broncos are somehow devoid of talent outside of the QB position, Tim Tebow could come back from casting college games and lead the Broncos to a first round bye. Brady and Rodgers have seperated themselves from the pack by playing mistake free football, Brady made two bad passes this Sunday, and they were glaringly obvious, the duck before the half being absolutely awful - they're the only reason I have Rodgers ahead of Brady atm.

In two weeks, I think the picture will be much clearer.

I am not sure why you are putting words in my mouth - I never said the Broncos or Packers were devoid of talent, or that the blame was all on Brady when the Patriots "struggled" to start 2-2 - but I think you are being a bit silly and defensive.

Tebow could lead this Broncos team to a bye? LOL, okay.

It's easy to say that Jordy and Cobb are two top 10 WRs, but would they really be as great as they are without Rodgers? Consider that Nelson put up 36-504-1 in the eight games without Rodgers last year (counting the 1st Q of the Bears game where Rodgers got hurt), and 49-810-7 in the other eight games, and we all see what he is doing this year.

The same, of course, can be said on a lesser level with guys like LaFell and E. Sanders, both of whom are flourishing with better QB play now. Top quarterbacks almost always elevate the play of those around them. That can be said for Manning, Brady and Rodgers this year, but the difference again is that Manning and Rodgers HAVE to play well for their teams to win against good teams. Brady doesn't have to play really well for the Patriots to win, even on the road against a 6-3 Colts team.

I don't know why it's difficult to admit that Brady has a major advantage by having Bill Belichick as his coach, but it's obvious that he does. That doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't benefit a lot by having Brady as well; one only need to look as his career head coaching record sans Brady to know this. Brady's value to the Patriots is obvious, but the Patriots have more ways to beat you than the Packers and Broncos do. Do you disagree?

 

[Run It Up]

I don't know why it's difficult to admit that Brady has a major advantage by having Bill Belichick as his coach, but it's obvious that he does. That doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't benefit a lot by having Brady as well; one only need to look as his career head coaching record sans Brady to know this. Brady's value to the Patriots is obvious, but the Patriots have more ways to beat you than the Packers and Broncos do. Do you disagree?

Belichick is obviously a boon, hes the best coach in the league by a lot and possibly the best coach ever. The point is you are using it as a handicap while contributing the success of the other QBs in the discussion as purely their own.

It's easy to say that Jordy and Cobb are two top 10 WRs, but would they really be as great as they are without Rodgers? Consider that Nelson put up 36-504-1 in the eight games without Rodgers last year (counting the 1st Q of the Bears game where Rodgers got hurt), and 49-810-7 in the other eight games, and we all see what he is doing this year.

Its easy to say, because statistically this season they are both top 10.

the difference again is that Manning and Rodgers HAVE to play well for their teams to win against good teams. Brady doesn't have to play really well for the Patriots to win, even on the road against a 6-3 Colts team.

No need to repeat yourself, I understood it fine the first time. If you believe that the success of the Packers or Broncos relies on Manning and Rodgers to play well that is a black mark on them as quarterbacks, their teams respectively are not in situations where you can make that kind of claim, especially Manning.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't know why it's difficult to admit that Brady has a major advantage by having Bill Belichick as his coach, but it's obvious that he does. That doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't benefit a lot by having Brady as well; one only need to look as his career head coaching record sans Brady to know this. Brady's value to the Patriots is obvious, but the Patriots have more ways to beat you than the Packers and Broncos do. Do you disagree?

Belichick is obviously a boon, hes the best coach in the league by a lot and possibly the best coach ever. The point is you are using it as a handicap while contributing the success of the other QBs in the discussion as purely their own.

It's easy to say that Jordy and Cobb are two top 10 WRs, but would they really be as great as they are without Rodgers? Consider that Nelson put up 36-504-1 in the eight games without Rodgers last year (counting the 1st Q of the Bears game where Rodgers got hurt), and 49-810-7 in the other eight games, and we all see what he is doing this year.

Its easy to say, because statistically this season they are both top 10.

the difference again is that Manning and Rodgers HAVE to play well for their teams to win against good teams. Brady doesn't have to play really well for the Patriots to win, even on the road against a 6-3 Colts team.

No need to repeat yourself, I understood it fine the first time. If you believe that the success of the Packers or Broncos relies on Manning and Rodgers to play well that is a black mark on them as quarterbacks, their teams respectively are not in situations where you can make that kind of claim, especially Manning.

What evidence is there that Belichick is any better of a coach than McCarthy?