Through 4 weeks, who is the league MVP? DPOY? (1 Viewer)

[Phenomena]

Updated.

MVP - Rodgers (Manning, Roethlisberger and Murray)

DPOY - Watt, nobody close enough to even list.

OROY - Evans (Benjamin and Watkins)

DROY - Mosely, I really don't think this one is close either but... (Barr, Borland and Mack)

If the Pats end up with the best record in the league, there is no way Brady is not in the Top 4 for MVP voting.

Gotta draw the line somewhere. The other QBs are all leading their teams to the playoffs and have great records. They also have better numbers, by a good margin for the most part. Brady has less yards, lower completion %, less YPA and a lower QBR than very QB listed. He is tied with Ben for TDs but has less than the others. He has more Ints than everyone but Ben. I could see replacing him and Ben, not the others. Pitt hasn't had a bye yet so there is a week for Brady to improve and pass Ben.So he's, there is a way the Pats have the best record and he isn't in the top 4. It may not be likely but there is a way. The odds are somebody's stats slip before the end of the season and that will be the difference.

This is where we look beyond the stats. Nobody is having a record breaking season although we'll have to see what Murray does. He might not have the stats for the full season (yet) but he's beaten two other top teams in the last two weeks. Understand that it's a season long award, but there hasn't been a better player in the league since their embarrassment in Kansas City.

Rodgers has clearly been better.

no. In FF, sure. In real football? It's at least debatable.

Rodgers needs the Packers to win against a few good teams before I'd put him ahead of Brady. They beat Philly which is big, but Tom's team has beaten two of the best teams in the NFL in the last two weeks, he has a chance to beat a third top tier team this week. You could argue that wins are a team effort and shouldn't matter for MVP, but they clearly do, especially for QB without a record breaking season.

Brady/Rodgers will be decided when they go head to head. But I don't know how you don't look beyond the stats and see that Brady is the front runner.

I honestly don't see how you can rank Brady ahead of Rodgers. Brady's game is trash when Gronk is hurt. Rodgers' games when Nelson/Cobb were out, and when he didn't have the running game he has now, was still stratospheric.

I didn't realize that Cobb, Nelson and Lacy missed time, since Cobb or Nelson have been 1 or 2 in receiving if not 1 and 2 in every game. But to put them on the same level as the WRs that NE has is pretty bold.

I'm not sure what you are saying ... not talking about this year. Nelson and Cobb have both missed significant time over the past three years. Prior to mid last year they had no running game. Through all of that Rodgers has maintained phenomenal play. Brady, on the other hand, has wet the bed the last two years when Gronk is not in the lineup.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Belichick is obviously a boon, hes the best coach in the league by a lot and possibly the best coach ever. The point is you are using it as a handicap while contributing the success of the other QBs in the discussion as purely their own.

I never said that.

Its easy to say, because statistically this season they are both top 10.

So is Golden Tate.

No need to repeat yourself, I understood it fine the first time. If you believe that the success of the Packers or Broncos relies on Manning and Rodgers to play well that is a black mark on them as quarterbacks, their teams respectively are not in situations where you can make that kind of claim, especially Manning.

Name one game this year where Rodgers or Manning didn't play well where their team won.

Heads up: do not bother trying, because it hasn't happen.

What evidence is there that Belichick is any better of a coach than McCarthy?

Hahahahaha, good one.

 

[Tau837]

What evidence is there that Belichick is any better of a coach than McCarthy?

You mean besides his regular season record with the Pats? Besides his postseason record with the Pats? His Super Bowl rings? His excellent work as DC and assistant HC under Parcells?

 

[Anarchy99]

What evidence is there that Belichick is any better of a coach than McCarthy?

You mean besides his regular season record with the Pats? Besides his postseason record with the Pats? His Super Bowl rings? His excellent work as DC and assistant HC under Parcells?

As any type of NFL coach . . .

Or his 13 conference game appearances (9 NE, 2 NYG, 1 NYJ, 1 DEN). Or his 9 Super Bowl appearances (6 NE, 2 NYG, 1 DEN). Or his 5 Super Bowl wins (3 NE, 2 NYG).

 

[Sabertooth]

The problem is Spygate obviously. What has he done since then? Nothing really. Lots of regular season wins against a weak division. Big deal.

 

[Anarchy99]

The problem is Spygate obviously. What has he done since then? Nothing really. Lots of regular season wins against a weak division. Big deal.

Sure, they haven't won a Super Bowl, but people make it out like they get triple credit for wins against the AFC East. The Pats are 60-17 (.779) in the regular season since Spygate against teams outside the AFC East, by far the best out of division record in that time. It's not like they did nothing against the rest of the NFL.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The problem is Spygate obviously. What has he done since then? Nothing really. Lots of regular season wins against a weak division. Big deal.

Okay, I can play this game, too:

What has Mike McCarthy done since winning a Super Bowl four years ago? Lots of regular season wins in a division with Jay Cutler, the QB-striken Vikings and the normally-shoot themselves in the foot Lions. Oh, and let's not forget that one whopping one playoff win over Joe Webb.

Did I do it right?

 

[Run It Up]

Its not a game, you keep making vague subjective claims that are being refuted with actual facts.

 

[Bri]

Luck has become assumed greatness. Unfortunately, the best QBs hit this point where fans are almost unimpressed by stellar play. If he's just lumped into this Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers group then he won't likely win.

Watt seems to still have everyone captivated. Big Ben stole the show for a week, but it almost always is Watt. For MVP talk, there's plenty of stats we can throw out there, but if a player has ridiculous stats and the water-cooler talk....he's usually the winner.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Anyone think the MVP isn't Rodgers at this point?

 

[Phenomena]

Anyone think the MVP isn't Rodgers at this point?

This isn't a year where there will be a consensus, but Rodgers should get 75%+ of the first place votes, barring some epic collapse.

His current streak without an INT is approaching epic territory. Hasn't thrown one at home in two years. If they get home-field advantage, look out...

 

[spider321]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

 

[Phenomena]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Since when does that matter?

 

[Bri]

Watt still has people captivated....long time. He's gotta pull it off for each coming week, but this is about as close as a defensive player gets

I don't think Rodgers is oh so much better than brady, peyton, or luck or... rivers some times. It seems like we usually have two stud QBs maybe three. This seems crowded. That might help Watt

 

[Sabertooth]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

 

[jurb26]

This isn't crowded at all. Rodgers is clearly ahead of everyone else. The guy is throwing for 8.75 YPA has 32 TDs and 3 Ints. His team now has the best record in football and just beat the hottest (some say best) team in football, NE.

Rodgers is running away with this.

 

[Buckna]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

 

[FUBAR]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

but he does play the premier position and his team is better.

If voting today, Rodgers should win. the next month should be interesting.

 

[Sabertooth]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

but he does play the premier position and his team is better.

If voting today, Rodgers should win. the next month should be interesting.

Apples and oranges between he and Watt. Obviously QB can influence wins a lot more than a DE. Watt is fun to watch though. Best defensive lineman since Reggie White IMO.

 

[FUBAR]

Watt still has people captivated....long time. He's gotta pull it off for each coming week, but this is about as close as a defensive player gets

I don't think Rodgers is oh so much better than brady, peyton, or luck or... rivers some times. It seems like we usually have two stud QBs maybe three. This seems crowded. That might help Watt

it really isn't crowded. The stats clearly show Rodgers is playing better and the Packers are the hottest team in the NFL right now.

 

[FUBAR]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

but he does play the premier position and his team is better.

If voting today, Rodgers should win. the next month should be interesting.

Apples and oranges between he and Watt. Obviously QB can influence wins a lot more than a DE. Watt is fun to watch though. Best defensive lineman since Reggie White IMO.

sure. I just look at the difference between Watt and the rest of the DL around the league and then the difference between Rodgers and the rest of the QBs around the league. Watt is "more better".

 

[spider321]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

I respect your right to be wrong.

 

[Adam Harstad]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

 

[FUBAR]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Do you think Woodson would have won the Heisman if not for his play on offense? His value was mostly on defense (and special teams) but he won at least in part because he helped on offense.

 

[Manster]

Rodgers MVP

Watt DPOY

no brainer

 

[meatwad1]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

That's not happening. I do not care what the situation is. A D-Lineman does not have the same impact as a qb. Watt will have a great time getting defensive player of the year, he is not the MVP.

 

[meatwad1]

Not locked up yet though....Rodgers will have to win the next three in order to seal it. In today's NFL that is not a given, no matter how easy it looks.

 

[Adam Harstad]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Do you think Woodson would have won the Heisman if not for his play on offense? His value was mostly on defense (and special teams) but he won at least in part because he helped on offense.

Is / ought distinction.

 

[Sabertooth]

Again, JJ Watt is the best player in the NFL.

Rodgers is better.

I respect your right to be wrong.

Ok. Well considering they play different positions on different sides of the ball, it's pretty hard to give an objective answer.

 

[Buckna]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Do you think Woodson would have won the Heisman if not for his play on offense? His value was mostly on defense (and special teams) but he won at least in part because he helped on offense.

Is / ought distinction.

Who said its the centerpiece? A defensive player has won twice in history, he's going to need a lot more to his resume than leading the league in TFL's (which he also does as well.) You may find it a curiosity, but its an important exclamation point on an amazing season.

 

[Tau837]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Watt will win DPOY. He will not win MVP. As it should be, given the season Rodgers has had.

 

[Tau837]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Do you think Woodson would have won the Heisman if not for his play on offense? His value was mostly on defense (and special teams) but he won at least in part because he helped on offense.

Heisman <> NFL MVP

 

[TDorBust]

Rodgers MVP

Watt DPOY

no brainer

Exactly, how many plays does Watt make an impact? I mean a REAL IMPACT, not the fact that he is just standing there. I mean when he hits a guy or forces a double-team where someone else gets a sack. Could we agree on less than 50% of the plays he is on the field?

Well I will say Rodgers brings his presence to 90%+ of the plays because he always has the option to check into or out of the run.

Also with the importance of the QB in the NFL there is no other position that should even have a shot at MVP really (and I like Watt ex-Badger). Think about WAR (from baseball Wins Above Replacement) in this case who has the largest by far WAR between the two? Watt probably allows the Texans to win 1 maybe 2 extra games over an average DL replacement, if that. Rodgers gives the Packers likely another 5+ wins before the season is out over an average QB replacement.

 

[thatguy]

No need to repeat yourself, I understood it fine the first time. If you believe that the success of the Packers or Broncos relies on Manning and Rodgers to play well that is a black mark on them as quarterbacks, their teams respectively are not in situations where you can make that kind of claim, especially Manning.

Name one game this year where Rodgers or Manning didn't play well where their team won.

Heads up: do not bother trying, because it hasn't happen.

Well, this did finally happen for Denver yesterday. Peyton didn't play awful, but he certainly didn't play well. And he did play pretty damn bad in the second half. Awful? Maybe not. But bad. Not trying to be a #### here, but just read this and thought the timing was fitting. But that's great for Denver's chances, IMO. Maybe CJ will be to Peyton what TD was to Elway.

 

[jurb26]

People over complicate this way too much. Just watch Rodgers. If you don't see with your eyes what looks like the clear best player in football. Check your eyes. He's amazing. The numbers certainly support it as well. Damn, just watch the guy though. It's blatantly obvious.

 

[FUBAR]

People over complicate this way too much. Just watch Rodgers. If you don't see with your eyes what looks like the clear best player in football. Check your eyes. He's amazing. The numbers certainly support it as well. Damn, just watch the guy though. It's blatantly obvious.

the same can be said for Watt. more so in fact, it's just somewhat less obvious as he doesn't hold the ball every play.

 

[FUBAR]

For fun and to add some more fuel to the MVP fire, Watt has 4 TD's, the first d'lineman to do so since 1948. 2 receiving, 1 fumble return & 1 INT. 9.5 sacks, 8 passes def, 2 FF, 4 F recoveries.

Hou still has a way to go to even make the playoffs, but Watt amazingly still could be in the conversation at the end of the year.

5th TD today, 1st dlineman since 1944 in the era when players played two way. Now 3rd on the list all-time of TD's in a season by a d'lineman. 2 sacks, TFL forced fumble, fumble recovery. He totally dominated the Titans.

Going to be a co-mvp this year with Rodgers IMO.

Honestly, the "first DL since 1944 with 5 TDs" thing is a bit silly. How many DLs play on offense today? Mike Vrabel had four TDs in 2005 and didn't even make the pro bowl (deservedly so!). Watt has one more receiving TD so far this year than Warren Sapp had in 2003, but nobody talks about 2003 as one of Sapp's best seasons (deservedly so!). The time these guys spent on offense was a curiosity, not a major source of value they were providing to their franchises.

Watt deserves MVP consideration because of the amazing work he does on the defensive line, which constitutes 98% of his responsibilities... not because he also moonlights as a TE, which is an aberration among those at his position historically but accounts for maybe 2% of his responsibility to the team.

Last year Jeremy Ross had the most return yards by a tight end in NFL history, and nobody really cared because A) the only reason he set the record is because very, very few TEs historically have handled returns, and B) Ross wasn't a very good TE, which constituted the vast majority of his duties.

Anyway, there are a lot of really great arguments for Watt as the MVP. I just think any argument that is putting those three offensive touchdowns as the centerpiece is missing the point of what he's really been providing for Houston. I mean, Von Miller is the only player in the entire league who is even within 20 QB pressures of Watt (who has 79 to Miller's 63). The fact that Watt is Reggie White on defense is more important than the fact that he's Joseph Fauria on offense.

Do you think Woodson would have won the Heisman if not for his play on offense? His value was mostly on defense (and special teams) but he won at least in part because he helped on offense.

Heisman <> NFL MVP

there's a lot of similarities when it comes to the voting, especially when it comes to offense vs. defense.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Well, this did finally happen for Denver yesterday. Peyton didn't play awful, but he certainly didn't play well. And he did play pretty damn bad in the second half. Awful? Maybe not. But bad. Not trying to be a #### here, but just read this and thought the timing was fitting. But that's great for Denver's chances, IMO. Maybe CJ will be to Peyton what TD was to Elway.

Manning converted 7 of his first 8 third-down pass attempts, with most of them coming on 3rd-and-long, and the one miss being an egregious drop in the end zone by Demaryius Thomas (that followed an egregious drop in the end zone by Jacob Tamme on 2nd down). By the time Manning missed a 3rd-down throw, there were only 23 seconds left in the first half, Denver had already scored 17 points, (should have been 21, with all three coming off of Manning TD passes on 3rd down), and Manning had already run a successful 2-minute drill to move the offense down into the red zone for one final score immediately before the end of the half.

Yes, Manning was ice cold in the second half, but Denver was able to coast to an easy victory based largely on just how scorched-earth good Manning was in the first half of the game. I can't ever recall seeing a guy convert 3rd-and-6, 3rd-and-5, 3rd-and-6, 3rd-and-10, 3rd-and-11, 3rd-and-5, and 3rd-and-10 in one half of action, with a dropped touchdown on 3rd-and-4, and absolutely no misfires during that stretch.

 

[thatguy]

Well, this did finally happen for Denver yesterday. Peyton didn't play awful, but he certainly didn't play well. And he did play pretty damn bad in the second half. Awful? Maybe not. But bad. Not trying to be a #### here, but just read this and thought the timing was fitting. But that's great for Denver's chances, IMO. Maybe CJ will be to Peyton what TD was to Elway.

Manning converted 7 of his first 8 third-down pass attempts, with most of them coming on 3rd-and-long, and the one miss being an egregious drop in the end zone by Demaryius Thomas (that followed an egregious drop in the end zone by Jacob Tamme on 2nd down). By the time Manning missed a 3rd-down throw, there were only 23 seconds left in the first half, Denver had already scored 17 points, (should have been 21, with all three coming off of Manning TD passes on 3rd down), and Manning had already run a successful 2-minute drill to move the offense down into the red zone for one final score immediately before the end of the half.

Yes, Manning was ice cold in the second half, but Denver was able to coast to an easy victory based largely on just how scorched-earth good Manning was in the first half of the game. I can't ever recall seeing a guy convert 3rd-and-6, 3rd-and-5, 3rd-and-6, 3rd-and-10, 3rd-and-11, 3rd-and-5, and 3rd-and-10 in one half of action, with a dropped touchdown on 3rd-and-4, and absolutely no misfires during that stretch.

Fair enought. But a good (perhaps great half) does not a good game make. For as good as he was in the first half, he was just as bad in the second. So where does that leave us? In my opinion, looking at all 4 quarters and rightfully so, Manning had an average if not below average game. A terrible game by his standards. My point was that Denver finally won a game when Manning was far from his best. And I love it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Agreed. That was the most enjoyable Broncos win all year, because it was a total team win. Sure, it's fun to see Peyton light it up by throwing the ball, but I think we all know that you aren't gonna win the Super Bowl by throwing it all day, even in the pass-happy current day NFL. Running the ball effectively and good defense have to remain part of the equation for the Broncos to have a chance to win it all.

 

[Tau837]

Manning converted 7 of his first 8 third-down pass attempts, with most of them coming on 3rd-and-long, and the one miss being an egregious drop in the end zone by Demaryius Thomas (that followed an egregious drop in the end zone by Jacob Tamme on 2nd down). By the time Manning missed a 3rd-down throw, there were only 23 seconds left in the first half, Denver had already scored 17 points, (should have been 21, with all three coming off of Manning TD passes on 3rd down), and Manning had already run a successful 2-minute drill to move the offense down into the red zone for one final score immediately before the end of the half.

Rivers was 8/8 for 156 yards on 3rd down yesterday, converting 7 of them to 1st downs. On 2 other occasions, defensive holding penalties led to 1st downs; on one of those plays Rivers had scrambled for 4 yards which would have been enough for the 1st down.

He didn't happen to throw any of his 3 TD passes on third down, but I find that performance more impressive than Manning's, particularly given the pressure Rivers was under from the BAL defense all game.

Back to the thread discussion...

 

[Adam Harstad]

Manning converted 7 of his first 8 third-down pass attempts, with most of them coming on 3rd-and-long, and the one miss being an egregious drop in the end zone by Demaryius Thomas (that followed an egregious drop in the end zone by Jacob Tamme on 2nd down). By the time Manning missed a 3rd-down throw, there were only 23 seconds left in the first half, Denver had already scored 17 points, (should have been 21, with all three coming off of Manning TD passes on 3rd down), and Manning had already run a successful 2-minute drill to move the offense down into the red zone for one final score immediately before the end of the half.

Rivers was 8/8 for 156 yards on 3rd down yesterday, converting 7 of them to 1st downs. On 2 other occasions, defensive holding penalties led to 1st downs; on one of those plays Rivers had scrambled for 4 yards which would have been enough for the 1st down.

He didn't happen to throw any of his 3 TD passes on third down, but I find that performance more impressive than Manning's, particularly given the pressure Rivers was under from the BAL defense all game.

Back to the thread discussion...

Nice. I'd definitely been hearing a lot of buzz that he was looking like he was back to his September MVP form, and he looked great in the snippets I caught on red zone, but I haven't watched that one on game rewind yet. I look forward to checking it out.

 

[ZWK]

MVP: Rodgers (Manning)

DPOY: Watt

OROY: Evans (Benjamin, Bitonio, Martin, Watkins, Lewan)

DROY: Donald (Mack, Barr, Mosley)

I'll swap in Beckham, who is averaging 131 yards & 1.6 touchdowns per game since my last post, to make it:

MVP: Rodgers

DPOY: Watt

OROY: Beckham

DROY: Donald

 

[Dismattle]

League MVP: Murray five hundred yrds w/ five TD's We would already be hearin his teams a lock for SB if almost anywhere but Dallas (okay maybe just Carolina)

DPOY: Harrison Smith fyi: youll notice a slight difference when he doesn't play

OROY: Bridgewater 300 yds in his 2nd game (some guys rarely if ever hit 300)

DROY: Mosley Before questioning, consider how much a pass rusher would help a team who cannot stop the Run

Super Bowl recap:

Murray 58 yds 1 TD

Smith 5 tackles 1 INT

Bridgewater oops,

Mosley: Pro Bowl, along w helping Defense not allow 100 rushing yds Mosley is the NFL’s only player with at least 115 tackles, three sacks and two interceptions this season. His 122 tackles rank seventh in the league and first among rookies. http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/tag/_/name/c-j-mosley

p.s. Mosley wasn't exactly lights out this past week, but he did get your Team to the dance!!

 

[Bri]

Not saying he's MVP but want somewhere to point this out so....

Luck is gonna break Manning's single season passing yardage mark with the Colts today. That's pretty awesome for a young QB

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not saying he's MVP but want somewhere to point this out so....

Luck is gonna break Manning's single season passing yardage mark with the Colts today. That's pretty awesome for a young QB

I suppose, but the fact that 10 of the top 13 passing yards seasons are from 2011-2013 takes a lot away from that. Passing yards are so off the charts now.

 

[Dismattle]

League MVP: Murray five hundred yrds w/ five TD's We would already be hearin his teams a lock for SB if almost anywhere but Dallas (okay maybe just Carolina)

DPOY: Harrison Smith fyi: youll notice a slight difference when he doesn't play

OROY: Bridgewater 300 yds in his 2nd game (some guys rarely if ever hit 300)

DROY: Mosley Before questioning, consider how much a pass rusher would help a team who cannot stop the Run

Super Bowl recap:

Murray 58 yds 1 TD

Smith 5 tackles 1 INT

Bridgewater oops,

Mosley: Pro Bowl, along w helping Defense not allow 100 rushing yds Mosley is the NFL’s only player with at least 115 tackles, three sacks and two interceptions this season. His 122 tackles rank seventh in the league and first among rookies. http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/tag/_/name/c-j-mosley

p.s. Mosley wasn't exactly lights out this past week, but he did get your Team to the dance!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466226/article/teddy-bridgewater-wins-pepsi-rookie-of-the-year-award?campaign=Twitter_atl

Teddy Bridgewater wins Pepsi Rookie of the Year award