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Tim Tebow #2 MVP? (1 Viewer)

rizzler

rizzler

Footballguy
*yes, another tebow thread*

Listening to an insider from the Denver Post on Around the League (NFL Network) in the background while I surf xvids..

anyways, back to the point of the thread....

Whoever this insider was, made the point that if the Broncos were to make the playoffs, that Tebow would be the legit #2 MVP behind Aaron Rodgers.

I laughed.

Then I thought about it.

Then I agreed.

In fact, I almost convinced myself that he could be a legit threat for the MVP title if they were to get to the playoffs.

I am neither a Tebow supporter, not a hater. Just an innocent bystander who is amazed at what is transpiring in Denver.

So ya... is Tebow the MVP runner-up "lock", if the Broncos get to the postseason?

Is there a chance he steals the prize?.... or more realistically, steals some #1 votes?

 
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
???In fairness, I can honestly say that aside from yesterday's game, I haven't watched Tebow play (highlights only)But if a guy comes into a 1-4 team, and carries them into the playoffs.. It's somewhat hard to say he's not a strong MVP candidate, no?I do agree that the hype surrounding the guy is insane, to say the least. But some people love the numbers.... in the win column, not in his passing stats.
 
'rizzler said:
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
???In fairness, I can honestly say that aside from yesterday's game, I haven't watched Tebow play (highlights only)But if a guy comes into a 1-4 team, and carries them into the playoffs.. It's somewhat hard to say he's not a strong MVP candidate, no?I do agree that the hype surrounding the guy is insane, to say the least. But some people love the numbers.... in the win column, not in his passing stats.
Click to expand...
Wins are a team stat. Passing numbers are more of an individual stat. The MVP is an individual award, so I believe passing stats are more relevant to the MVP voting than team wins. Tebow has come into a situation with a good and improving defense, and has played a solid and conservative role on an offense that doesn't lose games for itself. His primary virtue as a QB has been his low turnover rate. I don't believe that itself is worthy of a MVP nod.
 
'rizzler said:
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
???In fairness, I can honestly say that aside from yesterday's game, I haven't watched Tebow play (highlights only)But if a guy comes into a 1-4 team, and carries them into the playoffs.. It's somewhat hard to say he's not a strong MVP candidate, no?I do agree that the hype surrounding the guy is insane, to say the least. But some people love the numbers.... in the win column, not in his passing stats.
Click to expand...
If they ran the table and he had a couple more last minute wins, sprinkled in with a couple of big passing games, a big win at home against NE, it would be interesting as to where he would finish.It's Rodgers to lose, and Forte/Foster/Rice/Calvin and half of NE are all having great years, and while we are talking about shotty QB play on successful teams, if SF finishes with a BYE week, would Alex Smith deserve a fair share of consideration?
 
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Keep the discussion coming...

I'm beginning to ease myself back into reality.

I mean, I can see the argument for him coming close... I can. I may not necessarily fully agree, but I can see how it can be justified. Which I guess is agreeing to a point.

But there are many reasons why he is not.

Just putting myself into the NFL Voter mentality... which usually differs from "ours"

 
'Chicago Hooligan said:
So if Tebow doesn't lead them to the playoffs, are you voting Carson Palmer #2?
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I am not claiming Tebow for MVP makes any sense at all, but your argument makes less sense. The Raiders were 4-2 without Palmer and 3-2 now with him. He has them heading in the right direction now, but the team has not vastly improved with him being the QB, at least their record does not show them as much. Neither of these two guys is in the conversation, but the fact that the Broncos were 1-4 with Orton and 5-1 now with Tebow is certainly something that raises eyebrows. The same can not YET be said for Palmer. If they finish the season 12-4 (beating the Packers in Lambeau in the process) I may very well say he deserves to be in the conversation.
 
'Chicago Hooligan said:
So if Tebow doesn't lead them to the playoffs, are you voting Carson Palmer #2?
Click to expand...
This isn't even remotely the same thing. Carson Palmer came onto the Raiders as a 4-2 team tied for the division lead to replace an injured Jason Campbell. Since his arrival the team has gone on a 3-2 run and is currently 7-4 a top the division. Tebow came into his starting job to a 1-4 team, last in the division that clearly couldn't win a game if it was handed to them. Then goes on a 5-1 winning streak to put them at 6-5 and a game out of the division lead. There is a big difference in a mid year QB switch of winning season to maintaining a winning season, and last in the division almost considered out of the race to being in 2nd place one game out.Now you can say that this has nothing to do with Tebow, he has played terrible and has gotten lucky blah blah blah blah. Say whatever you want to say about him. He is not a good QB period and everyone understands this; including himself and his coaches. The point is the guy is winning games with the same exact team Kyle Orton had while losing games. So whether it's his physical ability that is winning the games or simply the leadership and confidence he instills on the players around him... the fact is because of Tim Tebow the Broncos are now a playoff contender. If you try to debate that you are simply being arrogant.Does this mean he should get MVP? No probably not, however... if the Broncos were to win out and make the playoffs at 11-5? Yea sure why wouldn't he be in serious contention for that award? Obviously Rodgers is the winner this season short of breaking his leg next week against the Giants. Still you can't debate the fact that if Tebow keeps improving and the Broncos keep winning he should be a serious contender for MVP.
 
'comfortably numb said:
'rizzler said:
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
???In fairness, I can honestly say that aside from yesterday's game, I haven't watched Tebow play (highlights only)But if a guy comes into a 1-4 team, and carries them into the playoffs.. It's somewhat hard to say he's not a strong MVP candidate, no?I do agree that the hype surrounding the guy is insane, to say the least. But some people love the numbers.... in the win column, not in his passing stats.
Click to expand...
If they ran the table and he had a couple more last minute wins, sprinkled in with a couple of big passing games, a big win at home against NE, it would be interesting as to where he would finish.It's Rodgers to lose, and Forte/Foster/Rice/Calvin and half of NE are all having great years, and while we are talking about shotty QB play on successful teams, if SF finishes with a BYE week, would Alex Smith deserve a fair share of consideration?
Click to expand...
I think Alex Smith has a much different consideration than Tebow. Pretend an average QB like Orton took over SF (I think of Orton as a guy who could start on 5-10 teams) they're probably still a playoff team imo. They might not be his turnover problems might sink them too. But without seeing it first hand it's hard to say that Smith has done anything more than play a good game manager role for a good team. If Tebow got the start day 1 and the Broncos were 8-3 right now I think we'd be saying the same thing about him.Here's the thing though after 5 weeks the consensus was that the Broncos had a QB that wasn't terrible and were one of the worst 2-3 teams in the NFL. So regardless of how much their success has been from lucky timing, defense getting things together, lucky bounces and a winnable schedule it looks like Tebow did something major. Smith doesn't have that perception.I think the MVP is clearly Rodgers and 2nd is probably Brees or Brady if one of them breaks the yardage record. But if the Broncos make the playoffs (and I think that would require 4 more wins) I could see Tebow being a legit 4th place name. I don't think they'll make the playoffs so it's moot.
 
'Khy said:
'Chicago Hooligan said:
So if Tebow doesn't lead them to the playoffs, are you voting Carson Palmer #2?
Click to expand...
This isn't even remotely the same thing. Carson Palmer came onto the Raiders as a 4-2 team tied for the division lead to replace an injured Jason Campbell. Since his arrival the team has gone on a 3-2 run and is currently 7-4 a top the division. Tebow came into his starting job to a 1-4 team, last in the division that clearly couldn't win a game if it was handed to them. Then goes on a 5-1 winning streak to put them at 6-5 and a game out of the division lead. There is a big difference in a mid year QB switch of winning season to maintaining a winning season, and last in the division almost considered out of the race to being in 2nd place one game out.Now you can say that this has nothing to do with Tebow, he has played terrible and has gotten lucky blah blah blah blah. Say whatever you want to say about him. He is not a good QB period and everyone understands this; including himself and his coaches. The point is the guy is winning games with the same exact team Kyle Orton had while losing games. So whether it's his physical ability that is winning the games or simply the leadership and confidence he instills on the players around him... the fact is because of Tim Tebow the Broncos are now a playoff contender. If you try to debate that you are simply being arrogant.

Does this mean he should get MVP? No probably not, however... if the Broncos were to win out and make the playoffs at 11-5? Yea sure why wouldn't he be in serious contention for that award? Obviously Rodgers is the winner this season short of breaking his leg next week against the Giants. Still you can't debate the fact that if Tebow keeps improving and the Broncos keep winning he should be a serious contender for MVP.
Click to expand...
Almost correct, don't forget they shipped out their #1 WR this year. So Tebow actually has a team just slightly worse than Orton.
 
Tebow is not a bad pick as a #2 MVP behind Rodgers.

Projected to a full season, his stats would look like this:

2000 yards passing, 1200 yards rushing, 29 total TDs, 3 INTs. That would break Vick's single season rushing record for a QB and be only the 2nd QB to rush for more than 1,000.

Obviously those INTs would creep up, but he's not far off Steve McNair's 2003 Co-MVP season with Payton Manning: 3200 yards passing, 30 total TDs, and 7 INTs.

This probably won't happen b/c Tebow didn't play a full season, but he's not far off in the QBMVP for 2nd or 3rd.

 
'FUBAR said:
'shadyridr said:
the real reason theyve been so good is their defense
Click to expand...
:no: playing the Dolphins, Raiders, Jets, Chiefs, and Chargers is the real reason they've won 5 games.
Click to expand...
mia has been red hot since that game and gave dallas a ride for their money, they abused oakland who will be a playoff team, they beat the jets who are a playoff contender, they beat sd on the road. kc was really their only easy win
 
'shadyridr said:
'FUBAR said:
'shadyridr said:
the real reason theyve been so good is their defense
Click to expand...
:no: playing the Dolphins, Raiders, Jets, Chiefs, and Chargers is the real reason they've won 5 games.
Click to expand...
mia has been red hot since that game and gave dallas a ride for their money, they abused oakland who will be a playoff team, they beat the jets who are a playoff contender, they beat sd on the road. kc was really their only easy win
Click to expand...
Yet KC should have beaten Pittsburgh last night.
 
'Chicago Hooligan said:
You mean "who has Aaron Rodgers played well against?" Oh, that's right, everyone.
Click to expand...
There's no question Rodgers is the boss.But lets also not compare offensive supporting casts.Rodgers has superior QBing talents, but also a vastly better (meaning the best) receiving corps in the league.So ya, he's gonna play good.
 
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.

 
'comfortably numb said:
I stopped reading when you said behind Aaron Rodgers...Peyton Manning is the clear MVP
Click to expand...
there is obviously no one more valuable to their team then Peyton. however he should not win the MVP if he has not played. Will the Tebow hate ever stop? I look at the MVP for exactly what it means. I have to say the 3 choices for me would be Rodgers, Brady, and yes, Tebow. The only thing that changed since he took over was he just lost more star players. lost his best WR but started winning? thats valuable if you ask me.
 
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
 
'rizzler said:
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're being sarcastic but I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would prefer to keep all of the Tebow talk in one thread. It's not that hard to do.
 
'shnikies said:
'rizzler said:
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're being sarcastic but I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would prefer to keep all of the Tebow talk in one thread. It's not that hard to do.
Click to expand...
This simply isn't just a Tebow thread. It encompasses the possibility of his overtaking players such as Rodgers, Brady, Brees etc. in the MVP race... As such, many players can and should be discussed in this thread.It's comparing a player of Tebow's talents, to more traditional QBs on drastically better offensive machines.
 
'shnikies said:
'rizzler said:
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're being sarcastic but I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would prefer to keep all of the Tebow talk in one thread. It's not that hard to do.
Click to expand...
We'd be better served to get rid of those worthless non-Tebow threads. Does anyone read those?
 
he is not even close. he will have played 5 less games than everyone else and is not the main reason his team is winning. why no Alex Smith for MVP thread?

 
'hines said:
he is not even close. he will have played 5 less games than everyone else and is not the main reason his team is winning. why no Alex Smith for MVP thread?
Click to expand...
Because there's a difference between being a QB on a winning team and being a QB who takes over a losing team and turns them into a winning team. But you hopefully know this.(not saying Tebow is making them win but that's the impression that a lot of people have)
 
Look, If Rogers keeps going he is the MVP hands down. No one is more valuable to his team than Rogers. There really can't be an argument there.

But....

Denver had one of the worst defenses in the league when Tebow started at QB (19th in total defense). They could not stop the pass. The team traded away their #1 receiver (545 yards in first 5 games). They were in the race for the "Suck for Luck" award. The team was averaging almost 4 turnovers a game.

Since then, with the entire world watching everything he does, Tebow has thrown 1 interception. He has won two games in overtime. Led 4 come from behind victories. The team has beaten every division opponent ON THE ROAD.

If they were to go undefeated the rest of the way? Finish 11-5 after being 1-4? I really don't know....#2? Not far off.

Im not sure someone could be MORE valuable in that scenario. Not that Rogers wouldn't still win. But if he continues what he is doing, how can you knock him?

 
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
Seriously. I have nothing against Tebow, but I'm getting really tired of hearing about him. He must be one of the most overrated players in the league right now. He doesn't deserve the MVP any more than Alex Smith, which is to say not at all. Running a hyper conservative offense and relying on a dominant defense to win games doesn't = MVP. Like Smith, Tebow isn't even close to being the best player on his own team.
 
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The Denver offense has averaged less points per game with Tebow than with Orton. That's with throwing out the first San Diego game. In my opinion Von Miller is more responsible for Denver's success.

 
'Hybrid said:
The Denver offense has averaged less points per game with Tebow than with Orton. That's with throwing out the first San Diego game. In my opinion Von Miller is more responsible for Denver's success.
Click to expand...
Tebow = Ball Control and Field Position.
 
'rizzler said:
'Workhorse said:
(sigh)

The Tim Tebow market correction can't happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
???In fairness, I can honestly say that aside from yesterday's game, I haven't watched Tebow play (highlights only)

But if a guy comes into a 1-4 team, and carries them into the playoffs.. It's somewhat hard to say he's not a strong MVP candidate, no?

I do agree that the hype surrounding the guy is insane, to say the least. But some people love the numbers.... in the win column, not in his passing stats.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if Tebow had "carried" his team to a bunch of 42-40, 35-30, 56-50 type victories then he'd be a MVP candidate. But thats not what has happened. The defense has been the best unit on that team during their winning streak. Von Miller has been the MVP of the Broncos this year.
 
'Hybrid said:
The Denver offense has averaged less points per game with Tebow than with Orton. That's with throwing out the first San Diego game. In my opinion Von Miller is more responsible for Denver's success.
Click to expand...
I posted this in the main Tebow thread, but here you go:The Broncos gave up 34 points off of 9 Orton turnovers in 4 1/2 games or 7.56 points a game.The Broncos have given up 7 points off of 2 Tebow turnovers in 6 1/2 games or 1.08 points a game.So, for those that wonder how Tebow has made the defense better, that's how.You can subtract 6.5 points from what the Broncos averaged with Orton or from the defense to narrow the difference between how the defense played with Orton vs. how they've played with Tebow.
 
Is there still time to get Tebow on the GOP ticket? That way he could be King of the World, Son of God, and NFL MVP... man, Dilfer could never touch this!

And according to another insane thread... he should win Defensive Player of the Year as well!

He must have won Missionary of the Year by now (probably several).

He just may be the greatest human being ever.

Too bad he's trending downward as a fantasy QB. :(

 
'shnikies said:
'rizzler said:
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're being sarcastic but I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would prefer to keep all of the Tebow talk in one thread. It's not that hard to do.
Click to expand...
While we're at it, why don't we keep all the football related talk in one thread too.
 
'proninja said:
'shnikies said:
'rizzler said:
'shnikies said:
Another Tebow thread about something specific that could have been posted in the 30+ page Tebow thread that ends up as another general Tebow thread. Moderators, can we please get all of the Tebow threads merged and any new unnecessary Tebow threads closed ASAP? Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Mission extremely accomplished.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're being sarcastic but I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would prefer to keep all of the Tebow talk in one thread. It's not that hard to do.
Click to expand...
While we're at it, why don't we keep all the football related talk in one thread too.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I suggested except I said we should keep all the talk about one player in one thread and you suggested we keep all of the talk about a whole sport in one thread. Similar, but not quite the same.
 
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