Tim Tebow in the NFL (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

I have this odd feeling that the Jags will take him in the middle of the 1st round to put butts in the seats and be used in a similar role that he was used his freshman year.

The Archie Manning scenario.Back then, no one ever really figured out how to use hime either.Tebow could be better than Vick, though in a very different way.Or Bobby Douglass.

 

[awesomeness]

You've got to be kidding.

Nearly every player entering next year's draft has a well-defined position for which he will be drafted, of which Tebow does not. Not by a long shot.

I could name thousands of players more proven over the last 50 years. Poor challenge.

The flag has been picked up and you are still charged with a timeout. Good lord.

Oh, I see. Apparently "proven" simply means that a player has a well-defined position for which he will be drafted. That must have been why the Texans took Mario Williams at #1 overall- he was simply so much more PROVEN than Reggie Bush! I mean, granted, he didn't actually do anything at the college level, but by golly, he sure had a well-defined position! That Reggie Bush was so unproven. I mean, he was awesome running the ball *AND* he was awesome catching the ball. What's a coach to do? Bush was totally unproven because he was simply too awesome in too many ways in college. He should have been more like Mario Williams and not excelled in multiple areas (or at all, for that matter).Tim Tebow faced more NFL-caliber defenders than any other player in the nation over the course of his career, and yet despite that, he still broke the SEC record for rushing TDs, the SEC record for total TDs, finished his career with the 2nd best passer rating in SEC history, finished his career with the most wins in SEC history, won a Heisman trophy, won two Maxwells (at least), won two national championships (earning a MNCMVP in the process), played in 3 SECCGs, was a 2x ESPN Male College Athlete of the Year, and kicked Chuck Norris's ###. It's a shame that he didn't actually do anything to prove himself or anything. If only he were as PROVEN as his teammate (and likely lottery pick) Carlos Dunlap. I mean, Dunlap's never had a double digit sack season, and he's never had more than 23 tackles in one year, but by golly, he sure has a clearly-defined position for which he'll be drafted!

college stats don't mean much. Particularly for QBs in a spread offense who are on teams that have a comparative advantage in regard to talent over all of their opponents.

 

[shader]

Tebow is a stud. As a Bama fan, at no time did I feel safe last night until the clock struck zero. He's so good and so competitive, that it was hard to imagine him losing.

QB's usually bust because they are incredibly stupid, don't work hard, are bad leaders, or just have very bad arms.

Tebow is going to be great in the NFL, provided he goes to a team where he can work on his mechanics and sit on the bench for a year or two.

Why? Because he's very smart, is a tremendous leader, is an unbelievably hard worker, and has plenty of arm strength. The one hitch in his game is his throwing motion, but Vince Young has a wierd throwing motion too, and he's succeeding.

And that loss had nothing to do with him. He was on a knee for 8 straight minutes on the sideline watching helplessly as the Tide ran the ball down Florida's throat. Also, his receivers dropped a ton of passes. Sure, he had one bad INT, but at that point he was trying to do an impossible feat anyway and score 3 td's in 10 minutes against Bama's Defense.

 

[Pickle Rody]

I guess my vote will be as a NFL player......maybe RB?

If you were evaluating Tebow as an RB prospect, where would you place him against the competition at this point?(Undrafted free agent, most likely).

You got me there CalBear.......I have not been evaluating Tebow at all. I have seen some of his games the last 2 years and it has amazed me what he's been able to accomplish. I'm not skilled enough to know whether or not his mechanics are screwed up to the point of him not qualifying as a NFL caliber QB. He has certainly made some great plays from the position over the course of his college career, but I don't know if that skill transfers over to the NFL or not.I have seen him make some amazing runs in the few times I've seen him play (on the TV.) I haven't a clue how he stacks up against the tried & true RB prospects coming out in 2010. I'm also not willing to say he'd be out of the NFL in a couple of years. So, hence my vote was for as a NFL player and was just guessing at potential position. I think the kid is just way too talented to not make it into the NFL. Of course talent alone won't make it so, but he seems to have a lot of the tangibles that are necessary to be successful in the NFL, most of which have been mentioned previously by some other posters here in this thread. I also find it extremely unlikely that he goes undrafted.

 

[Chase Stuart]

QB's usually bust because they are incredibly stupid, don't work hard, are bad leaders, or just have very bad arms.

This is definitely what GMs, coaches and the media like to say, but I don't really think this is true.

 

[pollardsvision]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?

IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.

QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.

Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

 

[Joey Joe Joe Jr.]

People keep saying he has a great arm, well sure, he has a strong arm, but he's not terribly accurate, and he has bad mechanics with a slow and low release. Jamarcus Russell has a cannon too, right? Also, his running ability will not translate at all in the NFL where DLs will be able to run him down.

Tebow has been unbelievable for the college game. He'll go down as an all-time great, and his natural leadership is really unprecedented. He made being a good guy and a role model cool, at Florida of all places! But if he wants to succeed in the NFL he has to totally revamp his throwing mechanics. Most guys I'd say wouldn't have a chance at this stage, but Tebow isn't most guys.

If he goes in the first round I will be shocked, but happy for him.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

Leftwich is the only one I can think of that was close to the slowness, or length, of delivery as Tebow. Can't really remember if he was worse at Marshall and was helped by the JAX coaches or not. Anyone remember?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

Leftwich is the only one I can think of that was close to the slowness, or length, of delivery as Tebow. Can't really remember if he was worse at Marshall and was helped by the JAX coaches or not. Anyone remember?

Leftwich's wind-up is way longer than Tebow's.

 

[hagmania]

I really don't see why JAX couldn't try implementing the spread with Tebow, MJD and MSW. It doesn't make sense to me why anyone would try and pick him as a franchise QB and then fail to back him up with a franchise system.

I don't know NFL scheming really at all; is the spread Tebow ran just an inferior offensive system in the pros? Actually, I've been wondering ever since Miami's success with the wildcat option if the NFL is just seeing a progression/cycle in the metagame of schemes, or if these so-called "gimmick" offenses (what is a gimmick but something new, anyway?) just don't stand a chance.

 

[perry147]

QB's usually bust because they are incredibly stupid, don't work hard, are bad leaders, or just have very bad arms.

This is definitely what GMs, coaches and the media like to say, but I don't really think this is true.

I was watching an NFL interview with some ex-GM (I forgot who it was), the interviewer asked soemthing allong the line of "Many college QBs bust - why is that?" the GM aid there are many players who just can not progress their game to the NFL BUT there also is a lot of poor coaching who will try to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Dave Larkin]

Great collegiate QB, no doubt, but Tebow doesn't translate well to the pro game. It's as simple as that. His throwing motion is very strange. He holds the ball far too low, making it easy to strip. He makes poor reads and plays in a gimmicky offense which means he doesn't have to do a lot of manipulating coverage. I just don't see him being a successful QB in the NFL. Someone will draft him to use in particular packages - it only takes one team after all.

 

[dparker713]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

Leftwich is the only one I can think of that was close to the slowness, or length, of delivery as Tebow. Can't really remember if he was worse at Marshall and was helped by the JAX coaches or not. Anyone remember?

Leftwich's wind-up is way longer than Tebow's.

They're quite comparable actually. Leftwich's arm was stronger and more accurate.

 

[gianmarco]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.

Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

 

[gianmarco]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

Leftwich is the only one I can think of that was close to the slowness, or length, of delivery as Tebow. Can't really remember if he was worse at Marshall and was helped by the JAX coaches or not. Anyone remember?

Leftwich's wind-up is way longer than Tebow's.

They're quite comparable actually. Leftwich's arm was stronger and more accurate.

Can you explain Tebow's high completion %?Tebow has never finished a season with less than a 64% pass completion. He's currently 8th in the NCAA in Yds/A at 8.6. That's higher than any of the top QB prospects except Clausen who is 7th at 8.8.So how do you do that if you're not accurate?

 

[dparker713]

Serious question here, from an admitted Tebow hater: Has anyone ever successfully corrected an incredibly slow delivery?IMO, a slow delivery is a fatal flaw. The NFL's just too fast for a QB to be successful if they can't the ball out of their hands quickly and accurately after deciding where to go. Reading defenses and making throwing decisions is hard enough without the added pressure of having to be even more efficient at those things than other QBs, to make up for the extra time needed after the decision is made.QBs succeed all the time with unorthodox throwing motions, but a lumbering delivery is an entirely different thing.Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who's ever successfully overcome it. That would make sense. If a guy's spent 12 or so years of his life being successful with a slow delivery, it's hard to overcome. If a guy feels comfortable making accurate passes with a slow delivery, it makes sense that changing up his delivery would cost him accuracy.Anyway, I can't think of anyone who's overcome it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Maybe someone smarter than me would be kind enough to provide some examples.

Leftwich is the only one I can think of that was close to the slowness, or length, of delivery as Tebow. Can't really remember if he was worse at Marshall and was helped by the JAX coaches or not. Anyone remember?

Leftwich's wind-up is way longer than Tebow's.

They're quite comparable actually. Leftwich's arm was stronger and more accurate.

Can you explain Tebow's high completion %?Tebow has never finished a season with less than a 64% pass completion. He's currently 8th in the NCAA in Yds/A at 8.6. That's higher than any of the top QB prospects except Clausen who is 7th at 8.8.So how do you do that if you're not accurate?

A) The offense he plays in is designed to have a very high completion percentage. B) He's played with extremely talented players that are often wide open even by college standards. C) The windows in the NFL are MUCH smaller. D) He only ever reads half the field, if that. E) If his first or second target isnt open he runs

 

[Godfather of Soul]

Gator fan and avid tebow fan here. Unless (a) he gets great coaching and (b) gets 2-3 yrs to sit, learn, and watch behind someone good (manning, brady, brees, people of that quality) he will not amount to too much. Love the guy, but he has regressed.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

B) He's played with extremely talented players that are often wide open even by college standards.

Tebow played with the worst group of WRs of any of the pro prospects this year. This is the worst crop of Florida WRs in 25 years, by a mile.Tebow is plenty accurate. Not great, but not bad or mediocre either. Tebow will struggle in the NFL because of his decision making and throwing motion, not accuracy or arm strength.

 

[sho nuff]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

Got a link saying he can?For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

 

[gianmarco]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

Got a link saying he can?For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

Got a link saying I said he could? I've said plenty of times it remains to be seen. Quite a bit different from the multiple claims in this thread and others that he can't play under center or in a traditional offense. It'd be a different story if he was placed under center and failed. That simply hasn't happened, although you wouldn't really know that reading some comments about him here in the SP.

 

[dparker713]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

Got a link saying he can?For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

Got a link saying I said he could? I've said plenty of times it remains to be seen. Quite a bit different from the multiple claims in this thread and others that he can't play under center or in a traditional offense. It'd be a different story if he was placed under center and failed. That simply hasn't happened, although you wouldn't really know that reading some comments about him here in the SP.

So, your objection is people making conclusions based upon the information they have at the time? So, I guess you dont use projections or rankings when drafting a FF team either, afterall they're the same thing.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

What a horrible point to bring up, given that there are three times as many super bowl winning coaches that say they would take him first overall in the draft. John Gruden even said something to the effect of "I'd pick Tebow first overall...give me him and I guarantee we'll win the Super Bowl".Not that I agree with them in any way, shape, or form, but it's pretty weak to bring up a former coach saying he won't succeed when most of them say he will.

 

[gianmarco]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.

Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

Got a link saying he can?For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.

What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.

Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

Got a link saying I said he could? I've said plenty of times it remains to be seen. Quite a bit different from the multiple claims in this thread and others that he can't play under center or in a traditional offense. It'd be a different story if he was placed under center and failed. That simply hasn't happened, although you wouldn't really know that reading some comments about him here in the SP.

So, your objection is people making conclusions based upon the information they have at the time? So, I guess you dont use projections or rankings when drafting a FF team either, afterall they're the same thing.

That's my point. What information do you have that he can't play under center? He's never done it at UF. He runs the offense he's asked to run and he runs it well. He doesn't run that offense just because he can't run an offense under center. The guy has poor mechanics, that's for sure. But he makes his reads and runs as he's coached to do. That doesn't preclude him from being able to play under center. There are some that say he cannot do it as if he's already failed at it. That's my point.

 

[SSOG]

college stats don't mean much. Particularly for QBs in a spread offense who are on teams that have a comparative advantage in regard to talent over all of their opponents.

This isn't an Andre Ware or Ty Detmer situation, here. Heck, it's not even a Matt Leinart situation. Tebow plays in the SEC. Does he have a comparative advantage over most of his opponents? Sure, but no more of an advantage than every other QB prospect that played for a power team. Advantage or no, few college players face as many elite defenders as Tebow has during his career. IIRC, the SEC has been the top defensive conference in all of college football in each of Tebow's four seasons.

 

[dparker713]

Just curious if anyone has a link with supporting evidence that Tebow can't run a conventional offense or play under center.

Hint: Playing in a spread offense from the shotgun != not being able to play under center.

Got a link saying he can?For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.

What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.

Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

Got a link saying I said he could? I've said plenty of times it remains to be seen. Quite a bit different from the multiple claims in this thread and others that he can't play under center or in a traditional offense. It'd be a different story if he was placed under center and failed. That simply hasn't happened, although you wouldn't really know that reading some comments about him here in the SP.

So, your objection is people making conclusions based upon the information they have at the time? So, I guess you dont use projections or rankings when drafting a FF team either, afterall they're the same thing.

That's my point. What information do you have that he can't play under center? He's never done it at UF. He runs the offense he's asked to run and he runs it well. He doesn't run that offense just because he can't run an offense under center. The guy has poor mechanics, that's for sure. But he makes his reads and runs as he's coached to do. That doesn't preclude him from being able to play under center. There are some that say he cannot do it as if he's already failed at it. That's my point.

Playing under center requires different abilities than playing out of the shotgun. The information people have is that he has not played under center in atleast 4 years, maybe never. Therefore, it is highly unlikely he currently has the skills necessary and given the failure rate of college QBs, him developing those skills at the pro level is also unlikely.Personally, I think whether he can play under center is immaterial - I contend he will never be able to throw the ball effectively enough in the NFL for anything else to matter.

 

[FUBAR]

That's my point. What information do you have that he can't play under center? He's never done it at UF. He runs the offense he's asked to run and he runs it well. He doesn't run that offense just because he can't run an offense under center. The guy has poor mechanics, that's for sure. But he makes his reads and runs as he's coached to do. That doesn't preclude him from being able to play under center. There are some that say he cannot do it as if he's already failed at it. That's my point.

Playing under center requires different abilities than playing out of the shotgun. The information people have is that he has not played under center in atleast 4 years, maybe never. Therefore, it is highly unlikely he currently has the skills necessary and given the failure rate of college QBs, him developing those skills at the pro level is also unlikely.Personally, I think whether he can play under center is immaterial - I contend he will never be able to throw the ball effectively enough in the NFL for anything else to matter.

I haven't seen as much UF football as I'd like to have before making the judgment but what I have seen tells me Tebow won't be a good starting QB in the NFL. He just doesn't appear to have the abilities he needs, his passing mechanics won't cut it and while he can play VY Jr. in college, I don't think he can even do that in the NFL. Wildcat, role player, great guy, sure. I really do hope I'm wrong, we need more guys like Tebow in the league and in the world, but I don't think I am.

 

[gianmarco]

Got a link saying he can?

For now, looking at him play...his footwork is not great...he has a slow release. Has not worked much from under center.

What we have are scout after scout saying its not likely he would make a good NFL QB.

Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

Got a link saying I said he could? I've said plenty of times it remains to be seen. Quite a bit different from the multiple claims in this thread and others that he can't play under center or in a traditional offense. It'd be a different story if he was placed under center and failed. That simply hasn't happened, although you wouldn't really know that reading some comments about him here in the SP.

So, your objection is people making conclusions based upon the information they have at the time? So, I guess you dont use projections or rankings when drafting a FF team either, afterall they're the same thing.

That's my point. What information do you have that he can't play under center? He's never done it at UF. He runs the offense he's asked to run and he runs it well. He doesn't run that offense just because he can't run an offense under center. The guy has poor mechanics, that's for sure. But he makes his reads and runs as he's coached to do. That doesn't preclude him from being able to play under center. There are some that say he cannot do it as if he's already failed at it. That's my point.

Playing under center requires different abilities than playing out of the shotgun. The information people have is that he has not played under center in atleast 4 years, maybe never. Therefore, it is highly unlikely he currently has the skills necessary and given the failure rate of college QBs, him developing those skills at the pro level is also unlikely.Personally, I think whether he can play under center is immaterial - I contend he will never be able to throw the ball effectively enough in the NFL for anything else to matter.

So, in other words, any QB coming out of college that doesn't play under center will never learn how? K, got it.

 

[dparker713]

So, in other words, any QB coming out of college that doesn't play under center will never learn how? K, got it.

No, the odds are stacked against any such QB. And concluding a player with various other issues will be unable to overcome them all, including this one, is hardly a stretch. No one is claiming to have emperical proof that he cant play under center, so why are you asking for it?

 

[sho nuff]

Also a coach who has coached both college and pros and won championships on both levels saying he thinks there is absolutely no way he would be one (Jimmy Johnson).

What a horrible point to bring up, given that there are three times as many super bowl winning coaches that say they would take him first overall in the draft. John Gruden even said something to the effect of "I'd pick Tebow first overall...give me him and I guarantee we'll win the Super Bowl".Not that I agree with them in any way, shape, or form, but it's pretty weak to bring up a former coach saying he won't succeed when most of them say he will.

Nor would I bring up Gruden as some QB guru either. Given his record of just get as many QBs on a team as possible and hope one of them works out for ya style he had for a bit there.But my point was not just because of one guy. Johnson was just one opinion and issue I cited along with many others who have said very similar really.

 

[sho nuff]

So, in other words, any QB coming out of college that doesn't play under center will never learn how? K, got it.

No, the odds are stacked against any such QB. And concluding a player with various other issues will be unable to overcome them all, including this one, is hardly a stretch. No one is claiming to have emperical proof that he cant play under center, so why are you asking for it?

Agreed...I wrote something on another board (more about college football) that today's college game and offenses are hamstringing the pros in a way...so many QBs are so hard to evaluate now because of all of the systems in NCAA that just don't translate well to the NFL.

 

[Doug B]

They showed a stat last night on MNF that the number of NFL-wide QB snaps taken from the shotgun has exploded just over the past 5 years. Tom Brady led the pack by taking 75% of his snaps in the shotgun (I think in 2009 alone for that 75% figure).

Is not lining up under center in college THAT much a hindrance for a QB in the here-and-now NFL? Seems a pro OC could work around that. How was the adjustment for Vince Young coached/handled?

Bump. Posted this a week ago, and it went ignored. Which is fine, but I think this info is pertinent to the current discussion.

 

[Doug B]

... so many QBs are so hard to evaluate now because of all of the systems in NCAA that just don't translate well to the NFL.

New England runs a high majority of their plays from the shotgun. NFL-wide, the snaps-from-shotgun figures are way up, too. Way up just since 2004 ... this is a very recent change that not all pro football observers will have incorporated yet.

 

[Two Deep]

Tebow throws worse ducks than Eli Manning and that is hard to do. Plus any respect I had for him was lost after his break down. I've seen some crying on the field through the years but that was over the top.

 

[perry147]

They showed a stat last night on MNF that the number of NFL-wide QB snaps taken from the shotgun has exploded just over the past 5 years. Tom Brady led the pack by taking 75% of his snaps in the shotgun (I think in 2009 alone for that 75% figure).

Is not lining up under center in college THAT much a hindrance for a QB in the here-and-now NFL? Seems a pro OC could work around that. How was the adjustment for Vince Young coached/handled?

Bump. Posted this a week ago, and it went ignored. Which is fine, but I think this info is pertinent to the current discussion.

Intersting..Why do you think Tom Brady uses the shotgun because A) he can get a better pre-read on coverage B) He throws a lot of quick slants to Moss and Welker C)Patriots have such a limited run game that lining up under center is not going to fool anyone into thinking it might be a run this time D) his shoulder injury hurts more when he has to squat E) The secret transmitter works better away from crowds?

 

[FavreCo]

Tebow throws worse ducks than Eli Manning and that is hard to do. Plus any respect I had for him was lost after his break down. I've seen some crying on the field through the years but that was over the top.

Tebow gears up for NFL

 

[Doug B]

Intersting..Why do you think Tom Brady uses the shotgun because A) he can get a better pre-read on coverage B) He throws a lot of quick slants to Moss and Welker C)Patriots have such a limited run game that lining up under center is not going to fool anyone into thinking it might be a run this time D) his shoulder injury hurts more when he has to squat E) The secret transmitter works better away from crowds?

Tom Brady is not some freakish outlier, BTW. IIRC, the entire league, averaged out, takes over half its snaps from the shotgun.

 

[Doug B]

Intersting article I dug up when trying to find the % of shotgun snaps in this year's NFL games:

San Francisco 49ers need to turn back clock and use shotgun offense full time

By Cam Inman

Oakland Tribune columnist

11/30/2009

THANKSGIVING WEEKEND brought with it a 49ers victory and the spectacle of their quarterback taking lots of snaps in the shotgun formation.

This was back in 1960, by the way.

It's when coach Howard "Red" Hickey unveiled the shotgun system to all of football. He used it to knock off a favored Baltimore Colts team and win three of the 49ers' final four games.

Here we are 49 years later — quite an appropriate anniversary number — and the 49ers unintentionally paid homage to Hickey's inventive scheme en route to another Thanksgiving weekend win. They used the shotgun on 31 of 47 snaps heading into the fourth quarter of Sunday's 20-3 victory over Jacksonville.

As cool a historical correlation as that is, the modern-day 49ers don't seem committed to a lasting relationship with the shotgun, even though they dang well should be.

Alex Smith is comfortable in the shotgun, the offense confidently moves the ball in it (as do the league's most potent offenses), and the 49ers' remaining schedule is filled with weak pass defenses.

Coach Mike Singletary said Smith took "a big step" Sunday. That starts with Smith taking five steps behind center to field the snap. Let him keep at that and see if the 49ers as a whole can eventually join the NFL trend of pass-happy, explosive offenses.

Hickey's shotgun scheme just might have a bigger influence on today's game than the more celebrated contribution of another ex-49ers coach, that being Bill Walsh and his West Coast offense.

John Madden likes to say the NFL is now a "shotgun league." Look around and you'll agree.

There was Minnesota's Brett Favre throwing two touchdown passes out of the shotgun Sunday. Same with San Diego's Philip Rivers. There was Tennessee's Vince Young working out of the shotgun the final 16 snaps of a 99-yard drive that ended with a game-winning touchdown pass as time expired.

Heck, even the Raiders are scoring out of the shotgun, or at least that happened Thursday at Dallas when quarterback Bruce Gradkowski found Darrius Heyward-Bey for the rookie receiver's first NFL touchdown catch.

"What a pleasure it is watching games and hearing the announcers say, 'The Red Hickey shotgun formation,' " Hickey said while visiting a 49ers practice in 2001; he passed away in 2006. "I invented something people are using."

Not just ordinary people. The NFL's best are taking shotgun snaps and piling up victories, Super Bowls and Pro Bowls.

...

It's a shotgun league, and the 49ers should join it.

 

[Doug B]

Another interesting article from today's Boston Globe:

No getting around college applications

By Albert R. Breer

December 6, 2009

Listen as Gunther Cunningham yells to get the neighborhood kids off his lawn.

“The sad thing is, the NFL’s going towards the college game, and I hate it,’’ the Lions defensive coordinator told the Detroit media. “I don’t care what people say about me for making a comment like that. But it’s taken five years for the NFL to change to this five wide receivers and Wildcat stuff.

“I remember when Jim Brown was running the ball. That’s what football is to me.’’

Sorry, coach. This “five wide receivers and Wildcat stuff’’ doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. And the reason is simple.

In other sports, feeder systems are in place where franchises can have players learning their system as they develop. In football, it’s the reverse: The feeder system is something pro clubs have no control over.

So when a certain system is as prevalent in the college game as the spread now is, the pro game simply has to deal with it.

...

 

[Doug B]

From Sunday's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Here's reference to the league-wide numbers I cited earlier:

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Once upon a time, in a backfield far, far away ...

News: Passes thrown from the shotgun formation have virtually doubled over the past four years to about 56 percent in the NFL.

Reaction: A vision, a day somewhere in the next decade, when a young son turns to his father as they watch the Steelers play the London Jaguars. The Steelers line up on offense and the son notices something different. "Dad, who is that out there with Big Ben?" The father cannot believe what he sees. There is a player lined up beside ol' Ben Roethlisberger in the Steelers' backfield. "Why, son, that looks like what we used to call a running back! I have not seen one of those in years."

Far-fetched? Not that far. This may come as a shock to those under 45, but offenses once lined up with three backs plus the quarterback. They called it the T-formation, it revolutionized offenses and was quite popular in the 1950s and '60s. By the 1970s, most offenses went with two backs. Then it became one. Now, the growing trend is the empty set backfield with only a quarterback and all 10 others standing on or near the line of scrimmage.

The Steelers this season went with the fewest backs on their roster than perhaps in their history, four. Think of that. At one time, even with rosters only in the 30s, teams would start three backs. They, or at least coordinator Bruce Arians, already eliminated the fullback, once the most desired and popular member of the offense after the quarterback. Franco Harris, believe it or not, was considered the fullback in the Steelers offense under Chuck Noll.

I covered the USFL in 1984 when Jim Kelly worked out of the new run-and-shoot passing offense with the Houston Gamblers. The Houston Oilers of the NFL adopted that radical offensive style and the Steelers not only made fun of it but loved playing against it back in the late 1980s and early '90s. Now, run-and-shoot techniques are common throughout the NFL, including the Steelers, although no one calls them by that name.

It does not surprise Steelers defensive coordinator **** LeBeau that passes from the shotgun formation have doubled in four years; he said he expects that number to continue to climb.

As the NFL moves to protect quarterbacks to greater degrees and continues to adopt rules favoring passing offenses, coaches will take advantage of it. Do not blame them for adjusting to a game that has changed dramatically.

 

[perry147]

Intersting..Why do you think Tom Brady uses the shotgun because A) he can get a better pre-read on coverage B) He throws a lot of quick slants to Moss and Welker C)Patriots have such a limited run game that lining up under center is not going to fool anyone into thinking it might be a run this time D) his shoulder injury hurts more when he has to squat E) The secret transmitter works better away from crowds?

Tom Brady is not some freakish outlier, BTW. IIRC, the entire league, averaged out, takes over half its snaps from the shotgun.

Point taken.But why do you suppose this tread is occurring?

 

[Doug B]

Point taken.But why do you suppose this tread is occurring?

No singular specific reason except that football strategy always changes over time. I like Ed Bouchette's take two posts up where he touts "protecting the QB" as one factor. So many pro teams do such a great job getting to the QBs, why not mitigate that some by dispensing with the traditional drop-back?The trickle-up explanation of the spread of the ... um ... spread makes sense to me, too. Sure, the NFL defensive athletes are faster ... but spread offenses put great lateral pressure on a defense. So what if you're facing faster defenders than you did in college? The spread can make guys run, say 15 yards to make a play whereas they'd only have to go 10 against a pro-set in a similar down-&-distance scenario. Covering 5 yards of ground takes extra time for even the fastest guys ... and in that extra time, spread offenses can find opportunity.Bill Walsh's early WCO had one solution -- the introduction of the three-step drop and of throw-before-the-cut timing routes. But the old-fashioned 49ers shotgun from the early 60s is another way to skin that same cat.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

I think he'll be an occasional Wildcat QB -- voted other, though, because I think he'll end up being some sort of H-Back/TE/RB/Slot type hybrid. He may "invent" a new position or strategy. I do not think he'll ever be a for real starting QB. His release makes Leftwich look like Pistol Pete. Somebody, MIA, NE, IND will take him and try to create a new angle.

 

[WinstonOBoogie]

He's got Geno Torretta written all over him.

 

[SSOG]

He's got Geno Torretta written all over him.

Really? In pen or sharpie?

 

[Doug B]

He's got Geno Torretta written all over him.

Really? In pen or sharpie?

...

While we're here -- do scouts time passing releases so that you can say, for example, that "Peyton Manning gets it out in an avg of 0.8 seconds, while Tebow takes 1.3?" Is it all "eyeball tests", or is this kind of stuff directly measured?

 

[awesomeness]

Smart move be Tebow here: Link.

Florida quarterback Tim Tebow hopes that a year from now he'll be NFL quarterback Tim Tebow.

But he's willing to play fullback or tight end or safety or whatever other position his future NFL team tells him to play.

Tebow said in an interview on ESPN today that he would like the chance to prove himself as a quarterback at the next level. But if the team that drafts him thinks he lacks the passing accuracy to make the transition to a pro-style offense, he'll accept that.

"My goal is to play quarterback," Tebow said. "I'm going to do whatever it takes and work as hard as I possibly can to be a quarterback. If I'm on a team and they want me to go play another position and that's what they tell me to do, I will gladly go play another position with my whole heart and do it to the best of my ability. But my goal is to be a quarterback and I'm going to do whatever it takes to try to reach that goal."

That's the right way for Tebow to answer the question: He'd obviously prefer to continue playing the position he's always played, but he'd be foolish to try to dictate the terms of his future NFL career to the teams that are considering drafting him.

Tebow also offered the right answer when asked about Florida Governor Charlie Crist opining that the Jacksonville Jaguars should draft him: Tebow said he was flattered, but he seemed hesitant about stepping into anything political.

"I haven't heard too much about it, but it is an honor for them to even look at me and consider me and for him to even bring my name up," Tebow said. "It's an honor to play in my home town and have people that would want me really means a lot and is very special for me."

It's still subject to debate whether Tebow has the tools to be a pro passer. But there's no question that he answers questions about his draft prospects like a pro.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Tebow's breaking the Sugar Bowl record books tonight:

29/33, 444 yards, 3 TDs, 12 carries, 35 yards, 1 TDs, with 10 mins to go in the 4th quarter.

 

[SSOG]

Tebow's breaking the Sugar Bowl record books tonight:29/33, 444 yards, 3 TDs, 12 carries, 35 yards, 1 TDs, with 10 mins to go in the 4th quarter.

Not just Sugar Bowl records. He set the record for most yards by a player in any BCS bowl.Final stats:31/35, 482 yards, 3 TDs, 14 carries, 51 yards, 1 TD, no turnovers. 533 total yards.Edit: Tebow also finishes his career with the second best pass efficiency rating in college football history, behind Sam Bradford.

 

[Phlash]

Wow. He completed almost 90% of his passes. Simply incredible performance.

 

[fsufan]

so now he is NFL ready