timschochet's thread - Ranking hemorrhoids (1 Viewer)

[msudaisy26]

If Love leaves (and even if he doesn't, especially if they don't win a title w him) how bad does this Wiggins trade end up all time?

I still think it was a good trade to make. Obviously if he leaves, it is a terrible trade in retrospect, but lots of people are using hindsight to judge the trade.

The Cavs would have never made the trade for Smith and Shumpert, and likely may not have made the trade for Mozgov either, if they kept Wiggins. Things would be looking better for 2017 without the Love trade, but I don't think they would be in the Finals right now if they hadn't have made that trade.

I think hey would still be in the Finals, with a far better chance of winning.

It is hard to tell if he would have developed this much playing with Irving and Lebron this year.

Plus can you tell me that right now this lineup is better than the one they are putting out

Delly vs Delly

Wiggins vs Shumpert

Lebron vs Lebron

Thompson vs Thompson

Bennett vs Mozgov

Bench

Waiters vs Smith

Seems pretty even or in favor of the version that playing right now

 

[NutterButter]

I think the Bulls PROBABLY get 8 straight if MJ never retires.

Love Lebron, but he isn't as good as MJ, and really not even sure what he could do to approach/pass MJ. Not really a knock to be called "almost as good as MJ".

How can you not think otherwise. 3 in a row followed by 3 in a row after the retirement where not one series even reached 7 games. I wouldn't go so far as to say he would've won more if he hadn't retired for a 2nd time, but that first retirement was right when they were just dominating the league.

He lost in the 2nd round when he came back from retirement. Why is this fact just ignored?

Sorry, i thought it was the next round. Not sure what you're getting at though. He only played in 17 regular season games that years; clearly there was going to be some rust with so few games to work with.

Jordan's 1995 postseason numbers are in line with his career numbers. The rust was shaken off. The team wasn't good enough. They lost Horace Grant in free agency and didn't really replace him.And Grant was a goner even if Jordan hadn't taken the baseball sabbatical. He waned to get paid, he wasn't in Jordan's inner circle, the Magic showed up at his house with a dump truck full of money.

The Bulls were very, VERY lucky Rodman suddenly became available after the 1995 season, and that no one else was willing to give up a player better than Wil Perdue for him.

Totally agree. People are really discounting how great Grant & Rodman were during those runs. We're talking about multiple all-star/all-defensive type talents. People talk like it was just MJ & Scottie.

Both very good players. Great? Probably stretching it a bit. Grant made one all-star game although he was probably on the precipice a bunch of years. Rodman made 2 with Detroit and although a great rebounder and a great defender (more so pre-Bulls), an absolute liability on the offensive end; You'd have a hard time finding a starting player on a championship caliber team that had a more limited set of offensive skills than him.

You can hide a bad offensive player when they are in the low post, it is much tougher when they are wing players. You can't just leave him down open down low the way the Warriors let Tony Allen run around and daring him to shoot from the outside.

Here is a list of guys that were starters and just as bad on offense or close to it as Rodman when they won titles

Ben Wallace

Udonis Haslem x 2

Tyson Chandler

Kendrick Perkins

Fabricio Oberto/Fransico Elson

Jason Williams

That is going back to around 2000

Ben Wallace is a good one. Haslem could hit an open jumper. The rest of those guys could at least score on an offensive rebound or take an oop or a dish for a throw down. The total of rodman's game was get a board and kick it back out.

 

[Galileo]

Santana!

 

[tommyGunZ]

If Love leaves (and even if he doesn't, especially if they don't win a title w him) how bad does this Wiggins trade end up all time?

I still think it was a good trade to make. Obviously if he leaves, it is a terrible trade in retrospect, but lots of people are using hindsight to judge the trade.

The Cavs would have never made the trade for Smith and Shumpert, and likely may not have made the trade for Mozgov either, if they kept Wiggins. Things would be looking better for 2017 without the Love trade, but I don't think they would be in the Finals right now if they hadn't have made that trade.

I think hey would still be in the Finals, with a far better chance of winning.

It is hard to tell if he would have developed this much playing with Irving and Lebron this year.

Plus can you tell me that right now this lineup is better than the one they are putting out

Delly vs Delly

Wiggins vs Shumpert

Lebron vs Lebron

Thompson vs Thompson

Bennett vs Mozgov

Bench

Waiters vs Smith

Seems pretty even or in favor of the version that playing right now

Why are you assuming the Cavs would have made no other trades had they kept Wiggins?

 

[Card Trader]

The amount of contact the Warriors can get away with on the defensive end is pretty amazing

 

[thecatch]

If Love leaves (and even if he doesn't, especially if they don't win a title w him) how bad does this Wiggins trade end up all time?

I still think it was a good trade to make. Obviously if he leaves, it is a terrible trade in retrospect, but lots of people are using hindsight to judge the trade.

The Cavs would have never made the trade for Smith and Shumpert, and likely may not have made the trade for Mozgov either, if they kept Wiggins. Things would be looking better for 2017 without the Love trade, but I don't think they would be in the Finals right now if they hadn't have made that trade.

I think hey would still be in the Finals, with a far better chance of winning.

It is hard to tell if he would have developed this much playing with Irving and Lebron this year.

Plus can you tell me that right now this lineup is better than the one they are putting out

Delly vs Delly

Wiggins vs Shumpert

Lebron vs Lebron

Thompson vs Thompson

Bennett vs Mozgov

Bench

Waiters vs Smith

Seems pretty even or in favor of the version that playing right now

Why are you assuming the Cavs would have made no other trades had they kept Wiggins?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

If Love leaves (and even if he doesn't, especially if they don't win a title w him) how bad does this Wiggins trade end up all time?

I still think it was a good trade to make. Obviously if he leaves, it is a terrible trade in retrospect, but lots of people are using hindsight to judge the trade.

The Cavs would have never made the trade for Smith and Shumpert, and likely may not have made the trade for Mozgov either, if they kept Wiggins. Things would be looking better for 2017 without the Love trade, but I don't think they would be in the Finals right now if they hadn't have made that trade.

I think hey would still be in the Finals, with a far better chance of winning.

Delly vs Delly

:boner:

 

[matuski]

I'm firmly in the LeBron is the GOAT camp, but the fact that he's a Ray Allen miracle away from being 1-5 in the Finals is a little troubling.

The greatest 3-point shooter ever making an open 3 was a miracle?

We could flip this argument and say, "If not for that Dallas miracle comeback in Game 2 in 2011, Lebron is probably 3-2 in the finals."

No, the whole scenario was a miracle - the rebound, pass and make all within a couple of seconds.

Yep... the shot is actually the least memorable part of that sequence.

 

[msudaisy26]

If Love leaves (and even if he doesn't, especially if they don't win a title w him) how bad does this Wiggins trade end up all time?

I still think it was a good trade to make. Obviously if he leaves, it is a terrible trade in retrospect, but lots of people are using hindsight to judge the trade.

The Cavs would have never made the trade for Smith and Shumpert, and likely may not have made the trade for Mozgov either, if they kept Wiggins. Things would be looking better for 2017 without the Love trade, but I don't think they would be in the Finals right now if they hadn't have made that trade.

I think hey would still be in the Finals, with a far better chance of winning.

It is hard to tell if he would have developed this much playing with Irving and Lebron this year.

Plus can you tell me that right now this lineup is better than the one they are putting out

Delly vs Delly

Wiggins vs Shumpert

Lebron vs Lebron

Thompson vs Thompson

Bennett vs Mozgov

Bench

Waiters vs Smith

Seems pretty even or in favor of the version that playing right now

Why are you assuming the Cavs would have made no other trades had they kept Wiggins?

Because we have no idea what they would have done. I am gong with what we know.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Warriors will be like the '89 Pistons: they were gonna win it anyway, but injuries to key players on other team will lessen the title in the eyes of some, which is unfortunate in both cases.

I know magic was injured in the finals. I do remember detroit only lost two games all playoffs. And the lakers had swept their way to the finals. What was jordans excuse that year?_

 

[sports_fan]

Great defense from Delly so far.

 

[SoBeDad]

A double or triple travel by Mozgov....

 

[Donkey Derp]

Cavs look surprisingly balanced. James Jones playing some valuable minutes. And agree with post above, Curry not seeing anything so far. Hopefully the GS bench is deeper and they pull away late

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Blatt has out-coached Kerr so far in the series. He's taken an inferior team and put them in position to compete (and even dominate most of the first game).

Cavs had a better game plan in Game 1 and thus far in Game 2. Completely controlling the tempo of the game and not allowing the Warriors to get out and run.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Blatt has out-coached Kerr so far in the series. He's taken an inferior team and put them in position to compete (and even dominate most of the first game).

Cavs had a better game plan in Game 1 and thus far in Game 2. Completely controlling the tempo of the game and not allowing the Warriors to get out and run.

But losers are forgotten...

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Blatt has out-coached Kerr so far in the series. He's taken an inferior team and put them in position to compete (and even dominate most of the first game).

Cavs had a better game plan in Game 1 and thus far in Game 2. Completely controlling the tempo of the game and not allowing the Warriors to get out and run.

But losers are forgotten...

Yep. The "giving" Lebron 40+ strategy would have been ripped to shreds had Cleveland managed 1 more point in regulation.

 

[NutterButter]

I'm just excited that this is a close game.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Curry wow

 

[ShamrockPride]

Bron just got destroyed...

 

[Donkey Derp]

Warriors have watched 5 or 6 defensive rebounds go right to the Cavs. Lots of stupid shots from them. Move the ball GS, it's not that hard.

 

[NutterButter]

How the hell are the Cavs winning right now? Of the 5 guys out there for the Cavs, 3 of them are just terrible offensively.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Warriors have watched 5 or 6 defensive rebounds go right to the Cavs. Lots of stupid shots from them. Move the ball GS, it's not that hard.

Pretty awful that Cavs are just about +10 on the boards and are only up 2.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

No answer for Mosgov right now

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Warriors have watched 5 or 6 defensive rebounds go right to the Cavs. Lots of stupid shots from them. Move the ball GS, it's not that hard.

Pretty awful that Cavs are just about +10 on the boards and are only up 2.

I think that's the only way they can be up anything. They have to dominate the glass just to have a chance.

 

[GoBirds]

For as explosive as LBJ is not many dunks.

 

[SoBeDad]

Warriors have watched 5 or 6 defensive rebounds go right to the Cavs. Lots of stupid shots from them. Move the ball GS, it's not that hard.

Pretty awful that Cavs are just about +10 on the boards and are only up 2.

I think that's the only way they can be up anything. They have to dominate the glass just to have a chance.

5 of 23 on threes will lead to a lot of rebounds. Give the Cav defense some credit for forcing a lot of threes.

 

[Card Trader]

How the hell was that not a foul on Speights?? Took out Delly and the ref.

 

[NutterButter]

Mo Buckets

 

[ShamrockPride]

Ooof. That was embarrassing...

 

[sports_fan]

oof

 

[NutterButter]

This game is an offensive abortion.

 

[Donkey Derp]

The Warriors are playing like they have bought into all the media talk that the Cavs are done. Unforced turnovers, missing FT, 1 on 1 ball, watching the ball bounce into the Cavs hands, missed dunk. I don't care how much better you look on paper, you aren't going to win this game continuing to play with no desire to step on their throats

 

[No. 16]

Warriors have watched 5 or 6 defensive rebounds go right to the Cavs. Lots of stupid shots from them. Move the ball GS, it's not that hard.

Pretty awful that Cavs are just about +10 on the boards and are only up 2.

I think that's the only way they can be up anything. They have to dominate the glass just to have a chance.

5 of 23 on threes will lead to a lot of rebounds. Give the Cav defense some credit for forcing a lot of threes.

You don't really force the Warriors to shoot 3s.

 

[NutterButter]

Take Livingston into the post already. Guy doesn't have the size to body up Lebron.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Warriors will be like the '89 Pistons: they were gonna win it anyway, but injuries to key players on other team will lessen the title in the eyes of some, which is unfortunate in both cases.

I know magic was injured in the finals. I do remember detroit only lost two games all playoffs. And the lakers had swept their way to the finals. What was jordans excuse that year?_

The Pistons owned the Bulls for years. There was nothing Jordan could do about it until the Pistons got old and banged up.

Back to Pistons/Lakers, I doubt Detroit would have won that in a sweep had Scott and Magic not been hurt, but they were not gonna be denied; they still would have won. Hell, they probably would have won it in '88 if not for the phantom foul call on Laimbeer.

Blatt has out-coached Kerr so far in the series. He's taken an inferior team and put them in position to compete (and even dominate most of the first game).

I agree. I have been very critical of Blatt, but he has the Cavs playing great this series considering how outmanned they are, especially on defense. Just imagine if someone besides James could make a shot.

 

[Donkey Derp]

Klay stupid loose ball foul.

Bogut stupid loose ball foul.

Playing like dumb###es

 

[Card Trader]

They can't call that a flagrant, he made play on ball

 

[Passenger]

They can't call that a flagrant, he made play on ball

Oh yes they can. But not because it's the correct call. Remember, they're trying to sell ads for 7 games.

 

[NutterButter]

Good hard foul.

 

[NutterButter]

Mozgov has been sitting for awhile now

 

[Leviathan]

Jeez...Curry is throwing bricks tonight.

 

[travdogg]

Its crazy that Golden State could still win this game. This might be the worst they have played all season.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Has Green ever agreed with a call?

 

[Passenger]

These fouls/non-fouls are getting ridiculous. I know it's pointless to ##### about the refs but, ####, anyone with half a brain can see what's going on right now. Agoudala just got called for a ticky-tack and the very next play was a carbon copy and, guess what... no call. And to top it off the announcers lap it up like starving dogs. It's such a kick in the nuts that as a consumer the only thing I can do is not watch.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Has any player that got called ever agreed with a call?

Fixed.

 

[NutterButter]

yeah, that's a foul

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If that was the "right call," then there is something very wrong with the NBA. lol

 

[Leviathan]

Classy shot to the nuggets there James.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Lebron elbowing Iggy in the groin is a foul on Iggy. Huh.

 

[NutterButter]

Has Green ever agreed with a call?