BoulderBob
Footballguy
Owens couldn't help the Texans in the first place, nor would he want to play in Houston.
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TO back in 2005 (Speculation) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Red Apples
- Start date
The Jerminator
Footballguy
Same here. I'm dropping Priest and picking up T.O.You just never know...
I know I AM
Footballguy
He's a free agent in my league...So, bottom line -- should I grab him?!
Red Apples
Footballguy
Here is the big difference between TO's situation and Keyshawn's.Keyshawn didn't fight it. He was deactivated and accepted it.TO was suspended, that is the penalty for his offense.Per collective bargaining TO cannot be penalized again for the offense.Philadelphia cannot keep him off their team after the suspension without releasing him. They can deactivate him on game days (coaches decision) but he is a member of that team until he is released.
apalmer
Footballguy
Can't speak about Wyoming, but in 20+ years of practicing law in Pennsylvania, I can guarantee I've never seen any suggestion that such a law exists here. The only way a contract breach can approach a criminal action is if there is evidence of fraudulent conduct--i.e., if a contractor takes a large down payment to undertake a job and then never takes any steps to perform, he may be guilty of theft by deception as well as breach of contract. However, it's not the breach which is criminal conduct, it's entering into a contract without intending to perform in order to get the money. It's purely speculation, but my guess is that the electrical contractor in Wyomng may be charged for criminal conduct if he breaches a contract by installing inferior products or otherwise jeopardizing peoples' lives, but, again, that would be a seperate criminal violation for those offenses. It is not breaching a contract which is criminal, it's the fact that the same conduct that constitutes a breach also constitutes criminal behavior (i.e., "risking a catastrophe" or "theft by deception").
Red Apples
Footballguy
and you see right there is the point, he cannot penalize TO excessively per the agreement. suspension yes. but you cant extend it. the rules say a maximum of 4 games.
Red Apples
Footballguy
ESPN is reporting that the Eagles are worried that the arbitrator will reduce TO's suspension.
Red Apples
Footballguy
because they cant... because of the rules, that would be like penalizing TO twice for the same offense.
The Commish
Footballguy
Deactivation is one penalty....not two. If they rule he can't be penalized TWICE (suspension AND deactivation) then they will forgo the suspension and just deactivate him...pretty simple....Red Apples
Footballguy
you cant take back the suspension. he has already been suspended one game.you cant unring the bell.
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babydemon90
Footballguy
I really thing they should activate TO, and make him play gunner on special teams.
Elway Lives
Footballguy
I really hope it is this simple. I'm afraid though, that as happens so often when any union gets involved, logic can have a way of taking a back seat. Let him rot on the bench for however many hundreds of thousands of dollars per game he is due to earn.Better yet, I can picture TO now with his weight bench on the sidelines at each non-suspended, deactivated game, doing his situps in front of the cameras like he did at his home when he was told to leave training camp.
Red Apples
Footballguy
Brock Middlebrook
Footballguy
What are the odds that Nader has TO on his fantasy team?
suchislife
Footballguy
What are the odds Nader is looking for some press (he is a politician).
Muahahaha
Footballguy
From what I have heard, they can de-activate him at will. That is not difficult at all.But it is unclear if they can de-activate him AND bar him from team facilities. This is the difficult part. There is no clear case history or guidance in the CBA on this issue.
The suspension is not being debated. De-activation is not being debated. De-activation with no participation in team activities is being seen as a prohibited activity.
apalmer
Footballguy
1. Sorry, Ralph, but the fans purchased tickets to see the Eagles attempt to win games and/or to win the championship. They had no guarantees that any particular player would play. What if the Eagles had traded TO? Would the fans be entitled to a refund? What if the Eagles discovered nobody could tackle Westbrook? Would they still hae to pass to TO so the fans got what they paid for? If the Eagles believe that TO was doing more harm than good, then the fans are getting what they bargained for--the Eagles are playing the guys they believe gives them the best chance of success.2. As for being a "free-speech victim", how many times do these media yokels have to have it explained to them? YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION FOR FREE-SPEECH RIGHTS IN A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE SITUATION!! YOUR ONLY FREE SPEECH PROTECTION IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT WON'T TAKE IT AWAY!!
Edit to add: For once I agree with Cappy:
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TommyGilmore
Footballguy
So then, what if Philly agreed to let T.O. play, but they only played him for 1 down before benching him. Are you saying that this too would be considered a violation of some sort of labor law???
Don't you see? It's all part of the "Get TO Conspiracy." The super arbitrator is going to step in, shorten his suspension, order the Eagles to activate him and stand beside Ried on game day to make sure that he calls enough plays for TO so that his feelings are never hurt again.
Red Apples
Footballguy
heres the problem bone-head reid said 4 game suspension & then deactivation.lumping both actions into one large suspension.Don't you see? It's all part of the "Get TO Conspiracy." The super arbitrator is going to step in, shorten his suspension, order the Eagles to activate him and stand beside Ried on game day to make sure that he calls enough plays for TO so that his feelings are never hurt again.
which makes the deactivation an additional penalty, some argue an excessive one.
M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
Larry, you're a real beauty.My favorite part is the made up ####, that apparently is fact in your head.
Red Apples
Footballguy
Gigantomachia
Footballguy
When did we start talking about christianity?
Red Apples
Footballguy
Update on hearing....
Red Apples
Footballguy
NFL Live on ESPN...* Hearing took 14 1/2 hours* TO had no comment to reporters after the hearing* Andy Reid testified for 4 hours* Sal Paolantonio reports Reid was questioned like he was on trial, "Ferocious nature of questioning"* Decision expected as soon as Sunday* Lawyers on both sides said it went well* 11 counts of conduct detrimental to the team
Shark Attack
Footballguy
or better yet, make him an in the stands hot dog vendor, the philly fans would take care of the rest..
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
GREAT!! Just in time for Sunday NFL Countdown!!
Super Genius
Footballguy
The true drama here lies in just what Sal Paolantonio will do with himself once TO is no longer a part of the Iggle nation...
Sal's become the Pedro Gomez of the NFL.Also, here's a post-hearing article....PHILADELPHIA -- Terrell Owens might be closer to returning to the field this season, even though the Philadelphia Eagles still don't want him back.
Arbitrator Richard Bloch did not issue a ruling after the 14-hour arbitration hearing Friday.
Richard Berthelsen, general counsel of the NFL Players' Association, said a decision is expected by Tuesday and expressed optimism that Owens would not have to sit out the remainder of the season.
The dismissed Owens -- who did not speak with reporters after leaving the hearing -- is seeking reinstatement.
"This discipline did not meet the legal standards of the collective bargaining agreement," said attorney Jeffrey Kessler, representing the union.
"He wants to play for Philadelphia," Kessler said. "He doesn't have any problem with his teammates, the organization or the fans. He never expected this to be the result."
Eagles coach Andy Reid suspended Owens two weeks ago for a series of incidents that included public criticism of the organization and quarterback Donovan McNabb. Following his suspension, which is for a total of four games without pay, Owens would be deactivated for the rest of the season.
The hearing started at 9:30 a.m. and finished at 11:40 p.m. The proceedings started with three hours of opening arguments, followed by eight hours of team testimony, then the players' association general counsel.
During the hearing, Reid was cross-examined by Berthelson for nearly the entire four hours of his testimony, ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reports.
The line of questioning went through each of the 11 counts of conduct detrimental to the organization brought by the team, and Reid was questioned repeatedly about whether the severity of the punishment was warranted, comparing what Owens did with what other players have done -- and whether they were punished as severely.
No other witness gave testimony for more than 30 minutes, according to sources. Reid answered questions from Berthelson while Owens and agent Drew Rosenhaus consulted with the union lawyer about what to ask next, as if Reid were on trial.
The line of questioning was focused on reducing the length of the four-game suspension, and not the Eagles' move to deactivate Owens for the rest of the season, the sources said.
The players' association wants Philadelphia to release Owens if he's not going to be reinstated after the four-game suspension is over. Lawyers for the players' union argued Owens' punishment for conduct detrimental to the team was excessive and the suspension should be reduced.
The Eagles insist the suspension is justified, and also could be seeking to reclaim about $1.8 million of the $9 million signing bonus they gave Owens last year because they believe the petulant receiver violated his contract terms when he failed to show up at a mandatory post-draft camp in the spring.
Kessler said the Eagles have not made an attempt to reclaim that money. If they did, Kessler said, that would require another hearing.
Philadelphia most likely would make a decision on Owens -- either releasing or trading him -- by next March, when he is due to receive a $5 million roster bonus.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Big Score
Footballguy
The reason for the focus of the grievance being on the length of TO's suspension and not whether the Eagles can or cannot deacitvate him for the rest of the season, is because the suspension is what can be brought up for arbitration."Section 2. Scope of Authority: The powers of the Impartial Arbitrator and the rights of the parties in any proceeding before him or her shall be solely to determine disputes that are specifically referred to the Impartial Arbitrator pursuant to the express terms of this Agreement. In no event shall the Impartial Arbitrator have any authority to add to, subtract from, or alter in any way the provisions of this Agreement."
As there are no rules or parameters set forth in the CBA, governing Teams activation or deactivation of players, the Impartial Arbitrator cannot hear or make rulings on circumstances surrounding the activation or deactivation of players.
www.nflpa.org
Bottom line:1) The Eagle's statement that they will deactivate TO after the suspension has no binding force.2) After the suspension, they'll deactivate him anyway.The most that TO can get out of this is the right to practice at Eagles' facilities. That's about it.The ONLY way TO would step onto the field again is if there's a mini-revolt among the players (say, after McNabb goes on IR) who demand that TO come back and kick up a real fuss until the Eagles let him return. And I just don't see that happening.
