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Tonight is the night (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DansRams
- Start date
Banger
Footballguy
ya, he'll be good but I don't like Saints wr's, they spread the ball too much.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
A low scoring game by NO and Graham gets the only passing TD from Brees, nice!!!! With all of the pressure that Atlanta was putting on Brees, you have to be happy with Graham's performance tonight. Will he ever be in Antonio Gates tier, probably not, Gates is a HOF'er, but I sure do like Graham's upside.
Actually...if you adjust for bye week, Graham was the 5th highest scroring TE in ppr for the weeks 9-16.....in what is really only his 2ND SEASON of competitive football
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I'll take the 8+ pts but wouldve been pissed if that TD didnt happen since I sat Pettigrew for him who still outscored this guy
For "fumbling" long after he was down and needing a challenge to overturn it? This was a horrible officiating crew.
rocketsauce
Footballguy
Not gonna lie, as I was watching the game, I was getting really interested in this guy, and started having Finley thoughts for 2011 in my head. Long before I read this thread.
Sure, the monster game wasn't there...but he is a physically imposing dude, in a high powered offense, with the physical tools to dominate smaller DBs.
Only thing missing is their willingness to get him involved and keep him on the field.
I'm buying for 2011.
Sure, the monster game wasn't there...but he is a physically imposing dude, in a high powered offense, with the physical tools to dominate smaller DBs.
Only thing missing is their willingness to get him involved and keep him on the field.
I'm buying for 2011.
saintfool
Dead sexy
apparently brees is staying after practices for a couple of hours just throwing the kid the ball. he's teaching him how to play in the NFL. the saints use the TE about as much as any team in the league. he's going to be involved in the offense and there is no reason to think otherwise. the only thing keeping him off the field, i think, is blocking. teams know that to beat NO you have to harass brees all game and graham doesn't seem like much of a blocker. he's got to improve there before he becomes a starter. he doesn't have to be perfect but he's got to be credible.rocketsauce said:
RUSF18
Footballguy
First of all, don't exaggerate...it wasn't close to being "long" after he was down. Watching the replay I was getting worried that they would say the ball started turning in his hand as he went to the ground and before the defender's knee knocked the ball out fully. And if that knee on ball contact came a split second earlier, Peyton would have been (wrongly, IMO) crucified all over the sports media for throwing in that situation...which led to my original comment.Ariakis said:
I must've also been watching a different game than you as well. There was absolutely zero question that Graham was indeed down long before the ball began "turning" in his hand.
saintfool
Dead sexy
colston was getting double coverage all night long and brees didn't target him a lot as a result. moving graham out wide - which they do a lot with shockey too - forced the falcons to move a defender off the line. this left one less blitzer as a result.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
too many other targets for Graham to get the superhype going
RUSF18
Footballguy
If less than a second during a slow motion replay equates to a long time for you, sure. You can watch it again yourself. At 3:47 his shin hits, and at 3:48 the ball is out. In slow motion.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010122700/2...P_cp2#tab:watch
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Disc Shark
Footballguy
Colston was double covered all game long. Even on his 2 catches he had 2-3 guys right on him. That left a lot of balls for Meachem, Graham and Henderson.
I like Graham's future as an NFL player and a fantasy player. The tight end is very important to Payton's offense. It was no accident that the Saints' offense performed best last year when Shockey was healthy most of the year. If defenses manage to cover all the the WRs and RBs, the TE almost has to be open, often deep down the middle of the field. The TE also gets lined up outside a lot, as previous commenters have noted. Most of the stud TEs (Gates, Clark, Finley) are lined up outside, which gives them more opportunity to catch balls and score. Graham already appears to be a much bigger receiving threat than Shockey (who is hobbled and on the downside of his career), but he doesn't block as well. But I don't think Graham will be called upon to do a significant amount of blocking, as the Saints bring in a tackle (Strief) to play the extra TE on running downs.
As far as his ranking among TEs in the second half of this year, recall that the top 3 TEs have all been injured. So, in a normal year (what's normal?), you would have to bump everyone (including Graham) down 3 spots. If Graham continues to improve, Payton's offensive design will make him a top 5 fantasy TE for a number of years.
I like Graham's future as an NFL player and a fantasy player. The tight end is very important to Payton's offense. It was no accident that the Saints' offense performed best last year when Shockey was healthy most of the year. If defenses manage to cover all the the WRs and RBs, the TE almost has to be open, often deep down the middle of the field. The TE also gets lined up outside a lot, as previous commenters have noted. Most of the stud TEs (Gates, Clark, Finley) are lined up outside, which gives them more opportunity to catch balls and score. Graham already appears to be a much bigger receiving threat than Shockey (who is hobbled and on the downside of his career), but he doesn't block as well. But I don't think Graham will be called upon to do a significant amount of blocking, as the Saints bring in a tackle (Strief) to play the extra TE on running downs.
As far as his ranking among TEs in the second half of this year, recall that the top 3 TEs have all been injured. So, in a normal year (what's normal?), you would have to bump everyone (including Graham) down 3 spots. If Graham continues to improve, Payton's offensive design will make him a top 5 fantasy TE for a number of years.
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I agree with everthing you said. I also think what adds to Graham's potential is the redzone potential...at his height he is obviously a huge candidate for the fade jump ball. Combine that with his ability to run the slant we saw a couple times last night (one was the TD) and you have a major problem for a db.One of the other important factors touched on in an earlier post as well is his willingness to work on his craft. Many elite athletes with amazing skills enter the NFL every yr....it is frequently the ones who work, that we end up calling elite football players. From everything I have read, coaches, front office and other players including Brees, have said Graham is a hard working kid. The skill set is obvious, the work is happening, and the results are starting to happen. In just his second year of football! Watch out next yr.
TeamSnooki
Footballguy
Jimmy went from a basketball court to catching game-winning TDs on MNF in less than 2 yrs. You don't make that quick leap without a TON of hard work, natural gifts or not.
He has all the physical tools, a good head, works really hard, has a great QB, and a pass 1st (and 2nd and 3rd and 4th) play caller -- that's gonna make him fantasy relevant for a long time. It's sorta crazy to only compare him to two of the best TEs of all time just because they all played basketball, but he has a HUGE ceiling no matter who you're comparing him to.
I don't know if Shockey was dinged up or not but at the end of the game Graham and Humphrey were out there blocking, not Shockey. The blocking definitely needs to improve but at least they were using him as a blocker in the most important spots of the game. There is at least a willingness to block, he's not gonna be scared to throw his body in there.
He has all the physical tools, a good head, works really hard, has a great QB, and a pass 1st (and 2nd and 3rd and 4th) play caller -- that's gonna make him fantasy relevant for a long time. It's sorta crazy to only compare him to two of the best TEs of all time just because they all played basketball, but he has a HUGE ceiling no matter who you're comparing him to.
I don't know if Shockey was dinged up or not but at the end of the game Graham and Humphrey were out there blocking, not Shockey. The blocking definitely needs to improve but at least they were using him as a blocker in the most important spots of the game. There is at least a willingness to block, he's not gonna be scared to throw his body in there.
What is the likelihood that Bush is retained next year at 11.8 million? He takes some targets away from the TEs. The TEs and RBs got a total of 18 targets per game both when Bush played and when he was out but the split was different. During games when Bush was out, the TEs received 11 targets per game and the RBs got 7. During the games when Bush played, the TEs got 8.5 and the RBs got 9.5. A similar split occured in 2008 when Bush missed 6 games.
Those extra targets per game could be significant, especially if Shockey is not kept (due 4.5 in 2011 - his last year of his contract). That would clear the way for Graham to get the majority of 11 targets per game, putting him up with the top TEs.
Those extra targets per game could be significant, especially if Shockey is not kept (due 4.5 in 2011 - his last year of his contract). That would clear the way for Graham to get the majority of 11 targets per game, putting him up with the top TEs.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i would be wary of that kind of speculation. bush and pierre were out most of the year. ivory was not really a pass catching threat. the playcalling was affected by those injuries. honestly, i don't think shockey is going anywhere. he'll play out his contract. $4.5m isn't that much money really. bush, however, looks pretty irrelevant to the saints at this point in time and at $11m is grossly overpaid. he could be cut and the saints not really miss him.
Disc Shark
Footballguy
I thought the Saints might part ways with Reggie Bush after last season because of his large salary. The fact is he can be a huge difference maker in Payton's offense, but he's been largely irrelevant after his game 2 injury in San Francisco. Since his return from that injury he has not performed well. That doesn't mean he won't bust a huge play in the playoffs that helps the Saints win a tough game.
saintfool
Dead sexy
it's possible. and it could make sean payton fall in love with him all over again. that said, he hasn't looked good AT ALL this year. he's been irrelevant running, catching and in special teams. this might be a decision that loomis makes over payton then. they showed quite clearly that they can win without bush. maybe payton's new toy - graham - makes parting with bush less painful.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
This is eerily similar to antonio gates, no?
Dave Larkin
Moderator
Jimmy Graham is an exciting player at the TE position and a star in the making in that offense. Brees clearly trusts him and they find ways to get him the ball. It could have been a much bigger game for him if not for the solid Atlanta defensive performance.
sos32
Footballguy
Glad I got him in all the leagues I could when I did, kid looks good!Another key 3rd down catch and then a TD.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
hey now, its not good to lie...your sig says otherwise.Glad I got him in all the leagues I could when I did, kid looks good!Another key 3rd down catch and then a TD.
He didn't say he has him in all his leagues, just all he could.hey now, its not good to lie...your sig says otherwise.Glad I got him in all the leagues I could when I did, kid looks good!Another key 3rd down catch and then a TD.
