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Torre's Book (1 Viewer)

Maybe his next book will detail how he presided over the biggest collapse in the history of sport.
I'm not one to be quick to blame the manager, but in light of how awfully he handled the Joba midge situation in Cleveland, you have to imagine that he wasn't necessarily the best guy to keep the team from completely collapsing.
 
Maybe his next book will detail how he presided over the biggest collapse in the history of sport.
I'm not one to be quick to blame the manager, but in light of how awfully he handled the Joba midge situation in Cleveland, you have to imagine that he wasn't necessarily the best guy to keep the team from completely collapsing.
There were specific in game things that he handled horribly in the series. He said Rivera was not available to pitch two innings in game 4 only to wait till Gordon loaded the bases with no one out to bring him in, then when the game was tied Wakefield was pitching to Varitek who could not catch the knuckle ball and not one baserunner got a steal sign. In his early Yankee years he was much better at tactical game decisions, but that might have been due to Zimmer being his bench coach and telling him when to bunt, steal, etc.Torre got the job done regular season, but was continually exposed in the playoffs when in-game tactical moves are magnified and matter much more in a short series. He also looked ahead too much in playoff series like when they played Detroit and Wang was ready to pitch game 4 (an elimination game) and he went with Jaret Wright instead to save Wang for a game 5 that never happened.
 
He also looked ahead too much in playoff series like when they played Detroit and Wang was ready to pitch game 4 (an elimination game) and he went with Jaret Wright instead to save Wang for a game 5 that never happened.
I hear this argument all the time that a manager should pitch a guy on short rest and then use all hands on deck to win the last game. However, over the years I have come to think that whatever a manager feels is his best chance to win is the way to go.Hostorically, most picthers in the post season have bombed when going earlier than normal in the pitching rotation, so I don't think sitting your best guy for the last game is a bonehead move. You still need to win both games. Put another way . . .Pitch Ace in second to last game: Chances of winning: 40% (if on the road)Pitch Leftovers in last game: Chances of winning: 45% (if on the road)Pitch Leftovers in second to last game: Chances of winning: 45% (same as above)Pitch Ace in last game: Chances of winning: 60%In this scenario (and I suspect the numbers are probably close), the team has a better chance of winning both games with the second option. You don't advance winning the first game and losing the next, you have to win both. And teams may actually have a better chance NOT pitching a guy without his usual rest. I don't have a link handy for the actual numbers of guys pitching on 3 days rest, but they were really bad compared to their regular numbers.
 
He also looked ahead too much in playoff series like when they played Detroit and Wang was ready to pitch game 4 (an elimination game) and he went with Jaret Wright instead to save Wang for a game 5 that never happened.
I hear this argument all the time that a manager should pitch a guy on short rest and then use all hands on deck to win the last game. However, over the years I have come to think that whatever a manager feels is his best chance to win is the way to go.Hostorically, most picthers in the post season have bombed when going earlier than normal in the pitching rotation, so I don't think sitting your best guy for the last game is a bonehead move. You still need to win both games. Put another way . . .Pitch Ace in second to last game: Chances of winning: 40% (if on the road)Pitch Leftovers in last game: Chances of winning: 45% (if on the road)Pitch Leftovers in second to last game: Chances of winning: 45% (same as above)Pitch Ace in last game: Chances of winning: 60%In this scenario (and I suspect the numbers are probably close), the team has a better chance of winning both games with the second option. You don't advance winning the first game and losing the next, you have to win both. And teams may actually have a better chance NOT pitching a guy without his usual rest. I don't have a link handy for the actual numbers of guys pitching on 3 days rest, but they were really bad compared to their regular numbers.
I understand the numbers are not good for pitchers on 3 days rest, but the other option in this situation was Jaret Wright. I'd rather take my chances with Wang (especially since he is a sinker ball pitcher) on 3 days rest than Jaret Wright.
 
Maybe his next book will detail how he presided over the biggest collapse in the history of sport.
I'm not one to be quick to blame the manager, but in light of how awfully he handled the Joba midge situation in Cleveland, you have to imagine that he wasn't necessarily the best guy to keep the team from completely collapsing.
Great game and great series...I loved it. ;)
As a Yankees fan, the only thing more painful than watching the game was to see how clueless Torre was afterwards saying "he's a great kid, it didn't faze him a bit." What game were you watching, Joe?
 
Maybe his next book will detail how he presided over the biggest collapse in the history of sport.
I'm not one to be quick to blame the manager, but in light of how awfully he handled the Joba midge situation in Cleveland, you have to imagine that he wasn't necessarily the best guy to keep the team from completely collapsing.
There were specific in game things that he handled horribly in the series. He said Rivera was not available to pitch two innings in game 4 only to wait till Gordon loaded the bases with no one out to bring him in, then when the game was tied Wakefield was pitching to Varitek who could not catch the knuckle ball and not one baserunner got a steal sign. In his early Yankee years he was much better at tactical game decisions, but that might have been due to Zimmer being his bench coach and telling him when to bunt, steal, etc.Torre got the job done regular season, but was continually exposed in the playoffs when in-game tactical moves are magnified and matter much more in a short series. He also looked ahead too much in playoff series like when they played Detroit and Wang was ready to pitch game 4 (an elimination game) and he went with Jaret Wright instead to save Wang for a game 5 that never happened.
I remember being incensed when Torre benched half of the starters in the World Series against the D-Backs and Randy Johnson, so that "the matchups were right." Most of those guys hadn't even faced Johnson 10 times. He was trading 100+ OPS+ guys for second rate journeymen.And don't even get me started with his hard on for starting/turning to Ruben Sierra in pivotal playoff games.
 
In the second round they got crushed. Fact of the matter is, Torre didnt change the Dodgers into a much better team - they went to a slightly below average team to an above average team after a huge influx of talent.
They got crushed in part because of Torre's awful managing decisions. (I'm a Phils fan who watched every pitch.) First, to bat Ethier and Martin 2nd and 4th -- the slots before and after Manny -- in every game despite them struggling. This made Manny's hits much less damaging than they should have been -- he often batted when there was no one on, and often got stranded when he got on base. Had he moved Loney, who was hitting well, up in the lineup, some games might have turned out differently. Second, his use of the bullpen, particularly to send Wade out in the 8th inning of Game 4, and his underuse of Kuo, who confounded our lefty hitters for the most part. He also played Pierre and A. Jones for way too long earlier in the season, at the expense of Ethier and Kemp.
 
He also played Pierre and A. Jones for way too long earlier in the season, at the expense of Ethier and Kemp.
Torre plays favorites, and most often those favorites are veterans. I think Joe Torre is one of the worst possible managers for a team that's rebuilding, especially if they're trying to grow from within.
 
Torre will appear tonight (2/5) on MLB Network's "Studio 42 with Bob Costas" at 8 PM eastern.

I hope the OP gets some answers from tonight's interview.

 

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