Trade Deadlines in Dynasty Leagues (1 Viewer)

[Tornacl]

Had this discussion in one of my leagues, and wanted to ask a wider audience. What is the purpose of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues? To me, it seems to be more of a hold-over or "this is the way it's always been" mindset, rather than having a legitimate purpose.

In re-draft leagues, they are an absolute necessity. Once you're out of it, you have no reason to make any transactions. But in a dynasty league, you should be able to improve your team year-round - that's the whole point. So if a contender has an untimely injury, if I'm not a contender, I should be able to take advantage of the situation, in most cases by trading an aging veteran who can help the contender this year. In return, I can get either a draft pick or a player to help my team in the future. Both teams "win", what's the problem with that?

The argument that it can skew the playoffs is a poor argument IMO. The late season injury already skewed the playoffs. And all teams have equal opportunity to make trades, so if a shrewd owner wants to block the owner from making the trade, as long as they offer more, they can make the trade themselves. I don't see how it is any different that allowing waiver wire transactions, and one of the non-contenders picks up a guy that isn't likely to even make their roster the following year.

The reason dynasty teams have waiver rules and rookie drafts is to try to help the teams at the bottom of the standings to improve so that they'll be more competitive. One of the ways to do this is make trades and build for the future. What better time to get the most value in a trade than when the other owner is desperate? And when are owners most desperate? Right before the playoffs.

So why do most dynasty leagues have a trade deadline? It seems to me that it hurts both the contenders who suffer an untimely injury and the teams that are near the bottom of the standings.

For those in favor of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues, what am I missing?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

IMO no trades during the playoffs is the only time there should be no trading in Dyno

other than that, let it rip

 

[Warpig]

Our trade deadline is week 10. Don't want teams that didn't do as well as hoped loading up a team headed for the playoffs. You can always revisit trades after the playoffs.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

 

[Tornacl]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fantasy football is NOT the NFL. I believe there are trade deadlines in all professional sports because of Las Vegas, so that the odds-makers can avoid a late block-buster trade which skews their lines.

 

[Tornacl]

Our trade deadline is week 10. Don't want teams that didn't do as well as hoped loading up a team headed for the playoffs. You can always revisit trades after the playoffs.

What would the point be to load up a team for the playoffs in a dynasty league? I can understand not allowing rental trades, and not allowing collusion, but preventing teams from improving themselves doesn't make any sense to me. But if I have an aging veteran like say Cedric Benson last year, whose real dynasty value was pretty low. But he was believed to have good fantasy playoff matchups. I could've traded him for far more than he would be worth at any point after that, why shouldn't that be allowed?If you're concerned that your opponent will make themselves better, there's nothing stopping you from going out and doing the same. Every team has the same opportunity to improve themselves. I'm a big fan of trading, and I've never been in a league that had too much trading, it's always the opposite. So why discourage trading?

 

[squistion]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

The NFL doesn't allow it past Week 6 or 8 of the season and most leagues have a trading deadline too, probably for the same reasoning in that it is unfair because it can upset the competative balance of the playoffs. If a team didn't bother to acquire adequate depth to account for injuries, they shouldn't be allowed to work around that trading for a player a few days before a playoff game. It is part of the strategy in dynasty leagues - it should be a risk you take if you don't bother to acquire a backkup, that you may have an injury late in the season after the waiver wire is closed.

 

[Riffraff]

Sounds like you want to reward owners that lack vision and depth by allowing them to imbalance the league when Chamionship time comes.

No deadline allows a team to stack thier team and also allows the other team to tank the season even more. Neither is good for a healthy, competitive league.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fantasy football is NOT the NFL. I believe there are trade deadlines in all professional sports because of Las Vegas, so that the odds-makers can avoid a late block-buster trade which skews their lines.

I'm not following you on the Vegas thing. For Vegas lines what is the difference between a trade on Friday during week 6 and Friday during week 7?

 

[Tornacl]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

The NFL doesn't allow it past Week 6 or 8 of the season and most leagues have a trading deadline too, probably for the same reasoning in that it is unfair because it can upset the competative balance of the playoffs. If a team didn't bother to acquire adequate depth to account for injuries, they shouldn't be allowed to work around that trading for a player a few days before a playoff game. It is part of the strategy in dynasty leagues - it should be a risk you take if you don't bother to acquire a backkup, that you may have an injury late in the season after the waiver wire is closed.

Every team has the chance to add players equally, nothing to prevent any owner from making trades. If I'm a re-building team, allowing trades at all times helps. If one of the other competitive teams makes a trade, you can stand pat or make one yourself. If you're too cheap pay to improve your team, you shouldn't be "protected" by having a trade deadline in place.And as far as your "competitive balance" - there's no depth that you can acquire that will off-set the loss of a stud. If there are no trades allowed, then why isn't there a complete roster freeze for the same reason? Most leagues allow waivers, so if you're going to allow waivers, then why not trades?I think that most leagues do it because they're used to playing re-draft, and that's the way they've always done it. I've played in dynasty leagues without one, and have never had a problem with a team getting stacked during the playoffs, because a stacked team will still be a stacked team the next year.

 

[Tornacl]

Sounds like you want to reward owners that lack vision and depth by allowing them to imbalance the league when Chamionship time comes. No deadline allows a team to stack thier team and also allows the other team to tank the season even more. Neither is good for a healthy, competitive league.

Improving your team for the future is not the same as tanking. Tanking is when you don't play your best lineup in order to get a better draft pick, not when you trade players to improve your team.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

You've yet to make a single point that doesn't apply equally to the NFL. And don't use the "this isn't the NFL" copout, that's only applicable when it's something that's demonstrably different (like draft pick value).

The NFL and fantasy leagues have trade deadlines for exact same reasons. Every point that you've argued as to why they should be removed to fantasy leagues could be equally applied to the NFL, yet the rule is still there. The NFL also tries to enforce parity via the draft, yet restricts teams from trading at the end of the year when they're clearly out of it, etc.

 

[imagroid]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fantasy football is NOT the NFL. I believe there are trade deadlines in all professional sports because of Las Vegas, so that the odds-makers can avoid a late block-buster trade which skews their lines.

Soooo the reason for NFL trade deadlines is due to gambling, but FANTASY FOOTBALL ISN'T THE NFL..Hmmmmmm

 

[Riffraff]

Sounds like you want to reward owners that lack vision and depth by allowing them to imbalance the league when Chamionship time comes. No deadline allows a team to stack thier team and also allows the other team to tank the season even more. Neither is good for a healthy, competitive league.

Improving your team for the future is not the same as tanking. Tanking is when you don't play your best lineup in order to get a better draft pick, not when you trade players to improve your team.

So teams playing the rebuilding team that traded their viable starters is still a competitive team in the current year leading up to the play-offs? I beg to differ. The teams playing them just got an easier matchup. And the team giving away the viable starters for draft picks just made their own draft pick move up the draft order. Tanking or not, it's still an issue for league wide competitive balance.You didn't address rewarding the owners without depth or vision.The most important thing in FF isn't trading, it's winning the Championship. That's why competitive balance (league) is favored over self importance (single team).

 

[Tornacl]

Sounds like you want to reward owners that lack vision and depth by allowing them to imbalance the league when Chamionship time comes. No deadline allows a team to stack thier team and also allows the other team to tank the season even more. Neither is good for a healthy, competitive league.

Improving your team for the future is not the same as tanking. Tanking is when you don't play your best lineup in order to get a better draft pick, not when you trade players to improve your team.

So teams playing the rebuilding team that traded their viable starters is still a competitive team in the current year leading up to the play-offs? I beg to differ. The teams playing them just got an easier matchup. And the team giving away the viable starters for draft picks just made their own draft pick move up the draft order. Tanking or not, it's still an issue for league wide competitive balance.You didn't address rewarding the owners without depth or vision.The most important thing in FF isn't trading, it's winning the Championship. That's why competitive balance (league) is favored over self importance (single team).

That's all part of dynasty leagues. There will always be some teams that are competitive this year, others are playing for the future. If you want to make sure that it is only about THIS year - stick to re-draft.Your "competitive balance" argument is a fabricated argument. I've yet to see a team trade the top studs away right at playoff time, because they'll still be on the other team from year to year.Every argument that you've made applies in re-draft, but in dynasty I just don't see it.

 

[Tornacl]

You've yet to make a single point that doesn't apply equally to the NFL. And don't use the "this isn't the NFL" copout, that's only applicable when it's something that's demonstrably different (like draft pick value). The NFL and fantasy leagues have trade deadlines for exact same reasons. Every point that you've argued as to why they should be removed to fantasy leagues could be equally applied to the NFL, yet the rule is still there. The NFL also tries to enforce parity via the draft, yet restricts teams from trading at the end of the year when they're clearly out of it, etc.

Your reason then is simply because that's the way it is in the NFL? So what? The "this isn't the NFL copout" is no weaker than the "the NFL has one" copout.I don't really know why there are trade deadlines. The only thing that I can come up with is that Vegas wants to have better information as to the playoffs. Maybe that's not the reason, but the point is that it shouldn't matter whether there is one in the NFL. The NFL is a business, and it has its own rules, etc., but the good thing about fantasy football, is that we can decide our own rules that make sense, and we're not bound by the same rules as the NFL.By the same reasoning, why does fantasy football give points for: receptions, yardage, sacks, interceptions, fumbles, etc.? In the NFL, they only get points for actually scoring points. So, since we only do it the way the NFL does it, shouldn't fantasy football only award for points? If you played fantasy football in the early days, that's the way it was. But guess what? It has evolved and improved.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The point was that the reasons it exists in the NFL are the same reasons that it exists in fantasy football. And yes, that largely includes that competitive balance argument that you for some reason think is completely fabricated but everyone else in the world realizes makes perfect sense.

Let's put it this way. Me and you are meeting in the 2012 playoffs and you clearly have a huge hold at your RB2 position. I've built my team better than you all year and you have several holes that I don't. But here we are in week 13 and the Michael Turner owner has just found out that he's not going to make the playoffs. What value does Michael Turner have to him now? None. He'll have no value going forward, and he can't play him right now. He'll gladly take your (likely very late) 1st or maybe even 2nd round pick for a guy that's going to put up RB1/RB2 numbers and completely eliminate the advantage I gained by building my team better.

Sure, I could one-up you and offer more for Turner, but I shouldn't have to "block" you (that's a ridiculous notion) and even if I do there are plenty of other running backs that will be available for you to make a cheap deal for.

Have you ever played in a 6 team league? You know what 6 team leagues are? They're dumb luck. Everyone has superstars at every position and it's just a matter of who has a good week at the right time. There's no building a team or managing the difference between a few studs and a complete lineup. Everyone has both. That's what the playoffs turn into when there's no trade deadline. No one has any holes or tough lineup decisions. Everyone can just grab a cheap aging player who's still putting up good numbers this year and fill out their lineup with short-term studs. It's boring, annoying, and a poor representation of who's actually built the better team throughout the years.

 

[DoubleG]

The point was that the reasons it exists in the NFL are the same reasons that it exists in fantasy football. And yes, that largely includes that competitive balance argument that you for some reason think is completely fabricated but everyone else in the world realizes makes perfect sense.Let's put it this way. Me and you are meeting in the 2012 playoffs and you clearly have a huge hold at your RB2 position. I've built my team better than you all year and you have several holes that I don't. But here we are in week 13 and the Michael Turner owner has just found out that he's not going to make the playoffs. What value does Michael Turner have to him now? None. He'll have no value going forward, and he can't play him right now. He'll gladly take your (likely very late) 1st or maybe even 2nd round pick for a guy that's going to put up RB1/RB2 numbers and completely eliminate the advantage I gained by building my team better.Sure, I could one-up you and offer more for Turner, but I shouldn't have to "block" you (that's a ridiculous notion) and even if I do there are plenty of other running backs that will be available for you to make a cheap deal for.Have you ever played in a 6 team league? You know what 6 team leagues are? They're dumb luck. Everyone has superstars at every position and it's just a matter of who has a good week at the right time. There's no building a team or managing the difference between a few studs and a complete lineup. Everyone has both. That's what the playoffs turn into when there's no trade deadline. No one has any holes or tough lineup decisions. Everyone can just grab a cheap aging player who's still putting up good numbers this year and fill out their lineup with short-term studs. It's boring, annoying, and a poor representation of who's actually built the better team throughout the years.

 

[Tornacl]

The point was that the reasons it exists in the NFL are the same reasons that it exists in fantasy football. And yes, that largely includes that competitive balance argument that you for some reason think is completely fabricated but everyone else in the world realizes makes perfect sense.Let's put it this way. Me and you are meeting in the 2012 playoffs and you clearly have a huge hold at your RB2 position. I've built my team better than you all year and you have several holes that I don't. But here we are in week 13 and the Michael Turner owner has just found out that he's not going to make the playoffs. What value does Michael Turner have to him now? None. He'll have no value going forward, and he can't play him right now. He'll gladly take your (likely very late) 1st or maybe even 2nd round pick for a guy that's going to put up RB1/RB2 numbers and completely eliminate the advantage I gained by building my team better.Sure, I could one-up you and offer more for Turner, but I shouldn't have to "block" you (that's a ridiculous notion) and even if I do there are plenty of other running backs that will be available for you to make a cheap deal for.Have you ever played in a 6 team league? You know what 6 team leagues are? They're dumb luck. Everyone has superstars at every position and it's just a matter of who has a good week at the right time. There's no building a team or managing the difference between a few studs and a complete lineup. Everyone has both. That's what the playoffs turn into when there's no trade deadline. No one has any holes or tough lineup decisions. Everyone can just grab a cheap aging player who's still putting up good numbers this year and fill out their lineup with short-term studs. It's boring, annoying, and a poor representation of who's actually built the better team throughout the years.

It turns out that way in REDRAFT leagues, not in dynasty leagues.

 

[jmo87usc]

I can understand what the OP is getting at with his questioning. If you cut off trades, you may miss out on an opportunity to buy a guy at a lower price, or unload a guy before it is too late. The fact of the matter is that's life. You're gonna miss out on some deals.

My dynasty league also shuts down waiver moves at playoff time. There have been plenty of times I wanted to pick up a guy who came on late in the season, but couldn't. I can still get him at the rookie draft if I play my cards right, but could have had him for free. Oh well. That's how it goes.

Part of the challenge of a dynasty is trying to have enough foresight to make those moves before the deadlines. Even though the rules are prohibitive for some things, they are necessary and fair to everyone.

 

[comfortably numb]

Had this discussion in one of my leagues, and wanted to ask a wider audience. What is the purpose of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues? To me, it seems to be more of a hold-over or "this is the way it's always been" mindset, rather than having a legitimate purpose.



In re-draft leagues, they are an absolute necessity. Once you're out of it, you have no reason to make any transactions. But in a dynasty league, you should be able to improve your team year-round - that's the whole point. So if a contender has an untimely injury, if I'm not a contender, I should be able to take advantage of the situation, in most cases by trading an aging veteran who can help the contender this year. In return, I can get either a draft pick or a player to help my team in the future. Both teams "win", what's the problem with that?

The argument that it can skew the playoffs is a poor argument IMO. The late season injury already skewed the playoffs. And all teams have equal opportunity to make trades, so if a shrewd owner wants to block the owner from making the trade, as long as they offer more, they can make the trade themselves. I don't see how it is any different that allowing waiver wire transactions, and one of the non-contenders picks up a guy that isn't likely to even make their roster the following year.

The reason dynasty teams have waiver rules and rookie drafts is to try to help the teams at the bottom of the standings to improve so that they'll be more competitive. One of the ways to do this is make trades and build for the future. What better time to get the most value in a trade than when the other owner is desperate? And when are owners most desperate? Right before the playoffs.

So why do most dynasty leagues have a trade deadline? It seems to me that it hurts both the contenders who suffer an untimely injury and the teams that are near the bottom of the standings.

For those in favor of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues, what am I missing?

Why?Why not allow teams who are still in it to trade?

 

[Tornacl]

Had this discussion in one of my leagues, and wanted to ask a wider audience. What is the purpose of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues? To me, it seems to be more of a hold-over or "this is the way it's always been" mindset, rather than having a legitimate purpose.



In re-draft leagues, they are an absolute necessity. Once you're out of it, you have no reason to make any transactions. But in a dynasty league, you should be able to improve your team year-round - that's the whole point. So if a contender has an untimely injury, if I'm not a contender, I should be able to take advantage of the situation, in most cases by trading an aging veteran who can help the contender this year. In return, I can get either a draft pick or a player to help my team in the future. Both teams "win", what's the problem with that?

The argument that it can skew the playoffs is a poor argument IMO. The late season injury already skewed the playoffs. And all teams have equal opportunity to make trades, so if a shrewd owner wants to block the owner from making the trade, as long as they offer more, they can make the trade themselves. I don't see how it is any different that allowing waiver wire transactions, and one of the non-contenders picks up a guy that isn't likely to even make their roster the following year.

The reason dynasty teams have waiver rules and rookie drafts is to try to help the teams at the bottom of the standings to improve so that they'll be more competitive. One of the ways to do this is make trades and build for the future. What better time to get the most value in a trade than when the other owner is desperate? And when are owners most desperate? Right before the playoffs.

So why do most dynasty leagues have a trade deadline? It seems to me that it hurts both the contenders who suffer an untimely injury and the teams that are near the bottom of the standings.

For those in favor of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues, what am I missing?

Why?Why not allow teams who are still in it to trade?

I would be fine with that.

 

[Tornacl]

I can understand what the OP is getting at with his questioning. If you cut off trades, you may miss out on an opportunity to buy a guy at a lower price, or unload a guy before it is too late. The fact of the matter is that's life. You're gonna miss out on some deals.

My dynasty league also shuts down waiver moves at playoff time. There have been plenty of times I wanted to pick up a guy who came on late in the season, but couldn't. I can still get him at the rookie draft if I play my cards right, but could have had him for free. Oh well. That's how it goes.

Part of the challenge of a dynasty is trying to have enough foresight to make those moves before the deadlines. Even though the rules are prohibitive for some things, they are necessary and fair to everyone.

What is unfair about allowing trades? Everyone has the same opportunity to make trades, so it isn't unfair if one team decides to trade and another one doesn't.I guess I just have a different definition of "altering the competitive balance" than most. I don't see trading a guy like Cedric Benson or Michael Turner as altering the competitive balance. My guess is these are the same people that complain about vetoing trades just because it makes another team stronger, even when there is obviously no evidence of (or suggestion of) collusion.

 

[Riffraff]

I guess I just have a different definition of "altering the competitive balance" than most. I don't see trading a guy like Cedric Benson or Michael Turner as altering the competitive balance. My guess is these are the same people that complain about vetoing trades just because it makes another team stronger, even when there is obviously no evidence of (or suggestion of) collusion.

There is no one stopping them from doing that at the trade deadline. Which is the same thing as right before the play-offs or right when a stud goes down. There's a certain point in time when trade values change and the deadline is just that. It just occurs for everyone at the same time. Highest bidder wins.This is kind of like the waiver process of a end time and waiver order vs first come first served argument. Not everyone loves a certain way, but one is more league competitiveness friendly and the other is more johnny on the spot owner friendly. (I prefer a hybrid system that has both elements during different parts of the week)As long as the league owners vote it in, whatever is chosen is the right way.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The point was that the reasons it exists in the NFL are the same reasons that it exists in fantasy football. And yes, that largely includes that competitive balance argument that you for some reason think is completely fabricated but everyone else in the world realizes makes perfect sense.Let's put it this way. Me and you are meeting in the 2012 playoffs and you clearly have a huge hold at your RB2 position. I've built my team better than you all year and you have several holes that I don't. But here we are in week 13 and the Michael Turner owner has just found out that he's not going to make the playoffs. What value does Michael Turner have to him now? None. He'll have no value going forward, and he can't play him right now. He'll gladly take your (likely very late) 1st or maybe even 2nd round pick for a guy that's going to put up RB1/RB2 numbers and completely eliminate the advantage I gained by building my team better.Sure, I could one-up you and offer more for Turner, but I shouldn't have to "block" you (that's a ridiculous notion) and even if I do there are plenty of other running backs that will be available for you to make a cheap deal for.Have you ever played in a 6 team league? You know what 6 team leagues are? They're dumb luck. Everyone has superstars at every position and it's just a matter of who has a good week at the right time. There's no building a team or managing the difference between a few studs and a complete lineup. Everyone has both. That's what the playoffs turn into when there's no trade deadline. No one has any holes or tough lineup decisions. Everyone can just grab a cheap aging player who's still putting up good numbers this year and fill out their lineup with short-term studs. It's boring, annoying, and a poor representation of who's actually built the better team throughout the years.

It turns out that way in REDRAFT leagues, not in dynasty leagues.

I don't know what else to tell you other than you're wrong. I don't even know where you got the idea that someone would be trading a 1st round pick for Michael Turner in a redraft league. That doesn't even make any sense.Have you actually played in a league with no trade deadline? I played in one with a deadline after week 13 and we had to move that back as every year there would be 6-8 players who had little future traded for mediocre draft picks or long shot developmental players to the point where all the playoff teams easily filled their holes. Again, that's just with a week 13 deadline, I can't even imagine if teams could do it the week before the league Championship.

 

[cstu]

You're all for this until your opponent acquires Arian Foster right before your playoff game.

 

[dynastyguru32]

Here is my view on trade deadlines in Dynasty Leagues. The difference in a dynasty league vs. a redraft league is that dynasty leagues make it seem more like the real nfl in that you keep the players you draft year in and year out. The goal is to build a strong competitive team over the years being able to balance your veterans with rookies. You have a larger roster so that you can stash potential while still maintaining a competitive team. If you have done this then right than you shouldn't have a problem with a trade deadline. If Arian Foster went down with season ending injury week 12, Houston would not be able to trade for a replacement rb. They have to run with whomever is on their roster. That is the same way that it should be in Dynasty football. You have a deep roster and should have replacement players to fill in for any injured player. If you don't than you haven't done your job as an owner. The excuse that this isn't the nfl so it shouldn't matter doesn't fly with me. This is fantasy football based on the nfl and its players so yes it does matter. In our league we have a trade deadline mid November that is lifted once the league championship is over. We have never had a problem with it and we have very competitive teams.

 

[Tornacl]

The point was that the reasons it exists in the NFL are the same reasons that it exists in fantasy football. And yes, that largely includes that competitive balance argument that you for some reason think is completely fabricated but everyone else in the world realizes makes perfect sense.Let's put it this way. Me and you are meeting in the 2012 playoffs and you clearly have a huge hold at your RB2 position. I've built my team better than you all year and you have several holes that I don't. But here we are in week 13 and the Michael Turner owner has just found out that he's not going to make the playoffs. What value does Michael Turner have to him now? None. He'll have no value going forward, and he can't play him right now. He'll gladly take your (likely very late) 1st or maybe even 2nd round pick for a guy that's going to put up RB1/RB2 numbers and completely eliminate the advantage I gained by building my team better.Sure, I could one-up you and offer more for Turner, but I shouldn't have to "block" you (that's a ridiculous notion) and even if I do there are plenty of other running backs that will be available for you to make a cheap deal for.Have you ever played in a 6 team league? You know what 6 team leagues are? They're dumb luck. Everyone has superstars at every position and it's just a matter of who has a good week at the right time. There's no building a team or managing the difference between a few studs and a complete lineup. Everyone has both. That's what the playoffs turn into when there's no trade deadline. No one has any holes or tough lineup decisions. Everyone can just grab a cheap aging player who's still putting up good numbers this year and fill out their lineup with short-term studs. It's boring, annoying, and a poor representation of who's actually built the better team throughout the years.

It turns out that way in REDRAFT leagues, not in dynasty leagues.

I don't know what else to tell you other than you're wrong. I don't even know where you got the idea that someone would be trading a 1st round pick for Michael Turner in a redraft league. That doesn't even make any sense.Have you actually played in a league with no trade deadline? I played in one with a deadline after week 13 and we had to move that back as every year there would be 6-8 players who had little future traded for mediocre draft picks or long shot developmental players to the point where all the playoff teams easily filled their holes. Again, that's just with a week 13 deadline, I can't even imagine if teams could do it the week before the league Championship.

I've played in one for seven years and there's never been a problem. I'm also in a second league without a trade deadline in its third year, and there hasn't been a problem with that one either.What doesn't make sense is thinking that changes the competitive balance in the league. So do injuries, are you going to outlaw them too?

 

[Tornacl]

You're all for this until your opponent acquires Arian Foster right before your playoff game.

If Arian Foster is up for grabs, then I have a chance to get him too.I have a problem if there appears to be collusion, but that's a whole other issue.

 

[duaneok66]

agree with Freebagel and the rest. NFL has one for a reason, ditto dynasty leagues.

 

[Steed]

Had this discussion in one of my leagues, and wanted to ask a wider audience. What is the purpose of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues? To me, it seems to be more of a hold-over or "this is the way it's always been" mindset, rather than having a legitimate purpose.



In re-draft leagues, they are an absolute necessity. Once you're out of it, you have no reason to make any transactions. But in a dynasty league, you should be able to improve your team year-round - that's the whole point. So if a contender has an untimely injury, if I'm not a contender, I should be able to take advantage of the situation, in most cases by trading an aging veteran who can help the contender this year. In return, I can get either a draft pick or a player to help my team in the future. Both teams "win", what's the problem with that?

The argument that it can skew the playoffs is a poor argument IMO. The late season injury already skewed the playoffs. And all teams have equal opportunity to make trades, so if a shrewd owner wants to block the owner from making the trade, as long as they offer more, they can make the trade themselves. I don't see how it is any different that allowing waiver wire transactions, and one of the non-contenders picks up a guy that isn't likely to even make their roster the following year.

The reason dynasty teams have waiver rules and rookie drafts is to try to help the teams at the bottom of the standings to improve so that they'll be more competitive. One of the ways to do this is make trades and build for the future. What better time to get the most value in a trade than when the other owner is desperate? And when are owners most desperate? Right before the playoffs.

So why do most dynasty leagues have a trade deadline? It seems to me that it hurts both the contenders who suffer an untimely injury and the teams that are near the bottom of the standings.

For those in favor of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues, what am I missing?

Why?Why not allow teams who are still in it to trade?

I would be fine with that.

So youre OK with good teams being able to better themselves, but the nonplayoff teams getting shut out of trading. Makes sense, in a rich get richer sense.

 

[GregR]

Why is there a trading deadline in the real NFL? Don't all the arguments you made in the OP apply there as well?

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fantasy football is NOT the NFL. I believe there are trade deadlines in all professional sports because of Las Vegas, so that the odds-makers can avoid a late block-buster trade which skews their lines.

I don't believe that statement is correct either from a historical standpoint nor from a "does that make sense" standpoint.The first trade deadline I'm aware of was implemented by baseball to prevent rich teams from changing the competitive balance of the league. Though Babe Ruth wasn't himself a late-season trade, his sale to the Yankees was a symptom of the overall problem and was likely the final straw as the trade deadline was introduced after his sale. Fans don't like seeing players switching teams at the last moment for the playoffs. Sports play very much into our "us vs them" instincts that were key to the survival of human beings. You see it at every facet of society. Depending on the exact moment and topic we'll splinter based on nationality, statehood, city, high school, race, religion, political leanings, or favorite sport, team, band, TV show, or even whether we're right or left handed... we identify ourselves and seek out groups with commonality.Fans widely view late season trades as akin to mercenaries, who aren't really part of their team. As such it goes directly against building up loyalty to a team which is one of the best strategies for long term health and growth for a sports league.I don't think the NFL is beholden to Vegas. They don't get a slice of the gambling money. Most of their rules that are made with consideration for Vegas are not to Vegas' benefit and are meant to limit opportunity for gamblers to interact with the game. The injury report is a great example... if I'm a Vegas bookmaker I would want no injury report so I can pay trainers and towel boys for info that my gambling customers don't have, allowing me to make more money. And the NFL has an injury report to eliminate exactly that type of interaction, realizing it could be a foothold on employees that could eventually lead to affecting the outcome of games.So, bringing this back to the original topic... I think most people feel on a deeper, instinctive level that there is something inherently wrong with seeing key personnel changes just before the playoffs. Bringing out outsiders who are not "one of us" that was there all season. And I think we do see more backlash against it in a sport like hockey where the trade deadline is later and such trades are more prevalent.That said, if you want a league with 365 days of trading, there is no reason you can't make one and find 11 like minded owners. I just wouldn't expect it to be the preference of the majority of FF players.

 

[Tornacl]

Had this discussion in one of my leagues, and wanted to ask a wider audience. What is the purpose of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues? To me, it seems to be more of a hold-over or "this is the way it's always been" mindset, rather than having a legitimate purpose.



In re-draft leagues, they are an absolute necessity. Once you're out of it, you have no reason to make any transactions. But in a dynasty league, you should be able to improve your team year-round - that's the whole point. So if a contender has an untimely injury, if I'm not a contender, I should be able to take advantage of the situation, in most cases by trading an aging veteran who can help the contender this year. In return, I can get either a draft pick or a player to help my team in the future. Both teams "win", what's the problem with that?

The argument that it can skew the playoffs is a poor argument IMO. The late season injury already skewed the playoffs. And all teams have equal opportunity to make trades, so if a shrewd owner wants to block the owner from making the trade, as long as they offer more, they can make the trade themselves. I don't see how it is any different that allowing waiver wire transactions, and one of the non-contenders picks up a guy that isn't likely to even make their roster the following year.

The reason dynasty teams have waiver rules and rookie drafts is to try to help the teams at the bottom of the standings to improve so that they'll be more competitive. One of the ways to do this is make trades and build for the future. What better time to get the most value in a trade than when the other owner is desperate? And when are owners most desperate? Right before the playoffs.

So why do most dynasty leagues have a trade deadline? It seems to me that it hurts both the contenders who suffer an untimely injury and the teams that are near the bottom of the standings.

For those in favor of trade deadlines in dynasty leagues, what am I missing?

Why?Why not allow teams who are still in it to trade?

I would be fine with that.

So youre OK with good teams being able to better themselves, but the nonplayoff teams getting shut out of trading. Makes sense, in a rich get richer sense.

Only in re-draft. In dynasty, I think that everyone should be able to make trades at any time. It gives the lower ranked teams more opportunities to improve for future seasons.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

I think several problems can occur without a trading deadline.....here are a couple of obvious ones:

1) Two owners who are friends or just good leaguemates with each other could collude without anyone knowing the difference, for example:

Team A: Made Playoffs, but Forte went down with knee injury. Has Bradford on his bench with Brady as starting QB.

Team B: Out of playoffs, owns LeSean McCoy and starting QB is Carson Palmer

Team B agrees to trade LeSean McCoy for Forte and Bradford. On this surface this looks like a fair trade, but there could be a handshake by one friends saying "I'll loan you McCoy for the playoffs and we will trade back when the season is over". Team A just improved his chances of winning and team B just helped out a friend win some money. Oh and BTW, Team B was handed a free entry fee for next season by team A who won the playoffs.

See the collusion here? It all would be prevented with a trade deadline of say week 10. No one could say anything when mid summer the trade back occurs, because afterall it's a fair trade right?!?

I am in several leagues with different sets of friends in the league. I do see questionable trades between friends, family members, etc.....never once did I think of collusion, but we have a trade deadline as to not offend other owners by borderline trades.

2) Team A in playoffs, but needs 2nd RB for chance to win

Team B out of playoffs and has a good RB1

Team A and Team B are friends. Team B has had discussions with Team A that he's going to call it quits next season because he's in 2 other leagues, has a 2nd child on the way and he's not going to have time to play in 3 leagues. Team B has nothing to gain by keeping his stud RB, so he decides to move him for 3-4 different young players moderate upside players from team A. These young players are decent players, but not going to help out team A in the playoffs........league owners, especially those heading into the playoffs are not happy about it but they can't void the trade........after all team B is building for the future right?!? Oh wait, team B quits the league once the commish asks for 2012 league fees. Team A just gained a stud RB for nothing.

These are just two examples of why trade deadlines are needed. Week 10 works perfect, because normally everyone is still in the running for the playoffs at this point.

 

[Tornacl]

I think that most leagues do it because that's what they've always done, and most people are hesitant to try something new.

In my experience, most of the trades that happen during the playoffs are the result of an injury, and it has usually been a aging player or an entrenched backup now in a starting role that changed hands. But I have seen some owners massively over-pay for guys that were only going to be marginally helpful anyway.

In the limited examples I've seen, the team that has benefited the most has been the worse team (and it really hasn't been close). By trading away an aging or a marginal talent at way above market price, they received far more out of the deal than the team acquiring the player. Which helped them become a better team for the following years.

I just don't see a team giving up a guy like LeSean McCoy or Arian Foster, because those guys are too valuable for the future. I'm of the opinion that if one of the other owners wants to severely overpay for a marginal player during the playoffs, let them, because they will suffer in the future.

 

[Tornacl]

I think several problems can occur without a trading deadline.....here are a couple of obvious ones:1) Two owners who are friends or just good leaguemates with each other could collude without anyone knowing the difference, for example: Team A: Made Playoffs, but Forte went down with knee injury. Has Bradford on his bench with Brady as starting QB. Team B: Out of playoffs, owns LeSean McCoy and starting QB is Carson Palmer Team B agrees to trade LeSean McCoy for Forte and Bradford. On this surface this looks like a fair trade, but there could be a handshake by one friends saying "I'll loan you McCoy for the playoffs and we will trade back when the season is over". Team A just improved his chances of winning and team B just helped out a friend win some money. Oh and BTW, Team B was handed a free entry fee for next season by team A who won the playoffs. See the collusion here? It all would be prevented with a trade deadline of say week 10. No one could say anything when mid summer the trade back occurs, because afterall it's a fair trade right?!?I am in several leagues with different sets of friends in the league. I do see questionable trades between friends, family members, etc.....never once did I think of collusion, but we have a trade deadline as to not offend other owners by borderline trades. 2) Team A in playoffs, but needs 2nd RB for chance to win Team B out of playoffs and has a good RB1Team A and Team B are friends. Team B has had discussions with Team A that he's going to call it quits next season because he's in 2 other leagues, has a 2nd child on the way and he's not going to have time to play in 3 leagues. Team B has nothing to gain by keeping his stud RB, so he decides to move him for 3-4 different young players moderate upside players from team A. These young players are decent players, but not going to help out team A in the playoffs........league owners, especially those heading into the playoffs are not happy about it but they can't void the trade........after all team B is building for the future right?!? Oh wait, team B quits the league once the commish asks for 2012 league fees. Team A just gained a stud RB for nothing.These are just two examples of why trade deadlines are needed. Week 10 works perfect, because normally everyone is still in the running for the playoffs at this point.

Collusion is a very different story. Either of those scenarios can just as easily happen at the trade deadline as during the playoffs. I agree that "rental trades" should not be allowed, but that's where bylaws come in.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

I think several problems can occur without a trading deadline.....here are a couple of obvious ones:1) Two owners who are friends or just good leaguemates with each other could collude without anyone knowing the difference, for example: Team A: Made Playoffs, but Forte went down with knee injury. Has Bradford on his bench with Brady as starting QB. Team B: Out of playoffs, owns LeSean McCoy and starting QB is Carson Palmer Team B agrees to trade LeSean McCoy for Forte and Bradford. On this surface this looks like a fair trade, but there could be a handshake by one friends saying "I'll loan you McCoy for the playoffs and we will trade back when the season is over". Team A just improved his chances of winning and team B just helped out a friend win some money. Oh and BTW, Team B was handed a free entry fee for next season by team A who won the playoffs. See the collusion here? It all would be prevented with a trade deadline of say week 10. No one could say anything when mid summer the trade back occurs, because afterall it's a fair trade right?!?I am in several leagues with different sets of friends in the league. I do see questionable trades between friends, family members, etc.....never once did I think of collusion, but we have a trade deadline as to not offend other owners by borderline trades. 2) Team A in playoffs, but needs 2nd RB for chance to win Team B out of playoffs and has a good RB1Team A and Team B are friends. Team B has had discussions with Team A that he's going to call it quits next season because he's in 2 other leagues, has a 2nd child on the way and he's not going to have time to play in 3 leagues. Team B has nothing to gain by keeping his stud RB, so he decides to move him for 3-4 different young players moderate upside players from team A. These young players are decent players, but not going to help out team A in the playoffs........league owners, especially those heading into the playoffs are not happy about it but they can't void the trade........after all team B is building for the future right?!? Oh wait, team B quits the league once the commish asks for 2012 league fees. Team A just gained a stud RB for nothing.These are just two examples of why trade deadlines are needed. Week 10 works perfect, because normally everyone is still in the running for the playoffs at this point.

Collusion is a very different story. Either of those scenarios can just as easily happen at the trade deadline as during the playoffs. I agree that "rental trades" should not be allowed, but that's where bylaws come in.

I disagree with you in scenario 2. Most of the time people don't decide to quit the league and give up until later in a season. Well my leagues are working great with trade deadlines.....no one is going to convince me that a trade deadline isn't a good idea.

 

[Agent575]

My league only shuts down trades during the playoffs. At any time outside of the playoffs it is game on as it should be.

Fantasy football is a game. I like ones where strategy is maximized and stupid pointless rules don't get in the way of owner management.

Doing something because the NFL does it is the dumbest argument ever.

People can cheat any system so worrying about that is pointless. If they cheat, they are gone. If you cannot trust people, then send em packing.

Competitive balance...pfft. Have owners that aren't dumb.

Folks that don't trade often usually oppose this sort of stuff. They want everyone else to play by those boring parameters too.

Whoever said that 6 man leagues are nothing but a luckfest or whatever...gonna assume you fall in with the majority of leagues out there that have 12 teams and start 8-10 players a week...and those are every bit as big of luck joke as a 6 man league so that argument is gone too.

For me, the bottom line has come to this...people should find others who believe in the same level of leagues and get together and do it. Do some homework to avoid being in leagues with guys who won't trade, guys that hate change and whatever other stuff you can't stand. I did that this year and thus far it has been so very refreshing.

No off-season. Now down time. No lack of activity. No nonsense. Game on.