Trades- What to do when someone backs out after its agreed? (1 Viewer)

[huntunc]

Twice in the last week I have worked out trades with other owners only to have them want to change it when it comes time to post.

In one, we emailed back and forth 40 times and had an agreement. Then when I said, do you want to post it or me he changed his mind back to a much earlier point in the negotiations. I still liked the trade enough to go with it, but it wasn't what we agreed.

In the second, we finally agreed via email and I sent the offer through MFL only to get a response that he changed his mind and didn't want to give up that many picks any more.

What do you do with owners like this? Is it worth trying to get the Commish to hold him to the agreement? I hate to sound whiny, but twice in one week in two different leagues and two different people is starting to annoy me.

 

[WVU Alum]

Twice in the last week I have worked out trades with other owners only to have them want to change it when it comes time to post.In one, we emailed back and forth 40 times and had an agreement. Then when I said, do you want to post it or me he changed his mind back to a much earlier point in the negotiations. I still liked the trade enough to go with it, but it wasn't what we agreed.In the second, we finally agreed via email and I sent the offer through MFL only to get a response that he changed his mind and didn't want to give up that many picks any more.What do you do with owners like this? Is it worth trying to get the Commish to hold him to the agreement? I hate to sound whiny, but twice in one week in two different leagues and two different people is starting to annoy me.

They have a right to back out until they hit accept or confirm via message boards or both. People change their minds and rethink trades. No big deal. Just don't deal with those particular owners anymore if it bothers you.

 

[ClownDogs]

Twice in the last week I have worked out trades with other owners only to have them want to change it when it comes time to post.In one, we emailed back and forth 40 times and had an agreement. Then when I said, do you want to post it or me he changed his mind back to a much earlier point in the negotiations. I still liked the trade enough to go with it, but it wasn't what we agreed.In the second, we finally agreed via email and I sent the offer through MFL only to get a response that he changed his mind and didn't want to give up that many picks any more.What do you do with owners like this? Is it worth trying to get the Commish to hold him to the agreement? I hate to sound whiny, but twice in one week in two different leagues and two different people is starting to annoy me.

It is very annoying, but nothing the commish can do about it. Just move on to another owner and stop dealing with those guys unless they actually start to send offers thru the site instead of email.GL

 

[Prussian]

I've got someone like that in one of the leagues I am in. And trash talks to the point of just being rude on top of it. Not good talk mind, you. Just ugly unnecessary banter. So, I just don't trade with him .... well, unless he were to initiate something just to "stooOOOoopid" for me to pass up ... through the site ... so I don't have to swap email with him. Just my choice of how to handle him.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Trade isn't done until the accepted button is pressed.. Happens to me alot of times with private chat on mfl. Nothing u can do but just tell the person ur not deal with them anymore.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

That happens from time to time with some owners. If it does...from that point forward, if you think you have an agreement, tell them to send the offer (the official offer via the website). Personally, I will never send an offer to the type of owner described in the original post. I make them send the official offer to prove they are serious about making the deal. You weed out those owners pretty quick doing that. If owners want to back out, that is fine, but I will never send the official offer to them; I make them send the offer. I really don't know what else you can do in that situation.

 

[fsufan]

to me it is not official till someone clicks the accept button

 

[squistion]

to me it is not official till someone clicks the accept button

I agree and that reminds me of Samuel Goldwyn's remark that "A verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on."

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Slightly off subject, I hate it when someone accepts a deal through MFL and then says it was a mistake. To accept a deal in MFL you have to make two clicks and we all know it's extremely unlikely they can make a mistake accepting a deal. Truth be known the only mistake is cold feet.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I think the guy that sends an offer then revokes 10 minutes later is much much worse... I hate that.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I think the guy that sends an offer then revokes 10 minutes later is much much worse... I hate that.

That doesn't bother me at all. If someone changes their mind before I've looked at the trade I certainly don't care. If I've seen the trade but didn't accept it and he changes his mind, that's my fault for not accepting the deal when I had the chance and for having second thoughts about it.

 

[Wadsworth]

Just identify the owners with such issues and try and spend less time dealing with them. Some owners are like that, it's part of FF. But that doesn't mean you have to waste your time with them. Personally, when I deal with such owners I only deal with hard offers with them. Meaning, I don't chat about offers in emails or live chat. I tell them to send me a real offer and I accept, reject or counter and only respond when they are ready to send me a real offer back that I can accept, reject or counter. It seems to save me a lot of time.

 

[krsone21]

It's not that big of deal to me. In real life offers get pulled off the table for various reasons. Maybe someone realized they were giving up too much or not receiving enough back and smartly changed their minds. I personally would never change my mind if I offered a trade and someone accepted. I'm not going to let that stop me from doing a trade with someone though. If said person made a habit of it then maybe I would start to get frustrated and say the heck with dealing with them but if it was a one time thing with said person then no big deal in my book.

 

[comfortably numb]

Slightly off subject, I hate it when someone accepts a deal through MFL and then says it was a mistake. To accept a deal in MFL you have to make two clicks and we all know it's extremely unlikely they can make a mistake accepting a deal. Truth be known the only mistake is cold feet.

I don't think that is the case when you you are logged in, and you go to reject a trade from your email, and click accept by accident.I think it will automatically accept it without a confirmation.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Slightly off subject, I hate it when someone accepts a deal through MFL and then says it was a mistake. To accept a deal in MFL you have to make two clicks and we all know it's extremely unlikely they can make a mistake accepting a deal. Truth be known the only mistake is cold feet.

I don't think that is the case when you you are logged in, and you go to reject a trade from your email, and click accept by accident.I think it will automatically accept it without a confirmation.

Actually it takes 3 clicks. One for clicking the radio button "Yes, I'd like to accept this trade". Two, click OK on "You're about to accept this trade offer", and three, click the "Respond to Trade Offer" button.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Slightly off subject, I hate it when someone accepts a deal through MFL and then says it was a mistake. To accept a deal in MFL you have to make two clicks and we all know it's extremely unlikely they can make a mistake accepting a deal. Truth be known the only mistake is cold feet.

I don't think that is the case when you you are logged in, and you go to reject a trade from your email, and click accept by accident.I think it will automatically accept it without a confirmation.

I did a test and you are correct when you accept from email. It is automatic. My advice is never accept / reject trades from email, use the site.

 

[rzrback77]

Owners cahnge their mind all the time, my advice is to get over it. I do not include adding a whining thread in the shark pool as getting over it either.

 

[D.J.]

if you dont want to trade with someone for this reason, that's ok with me, more trades for me to make. you still made a deal with him, so his actual offer must have been ok. When negotiating a deal sometimes they fall through. Don't look at it as a waste of time. If you had good dialogue, it is an investment in future talks, at the least.

 

[sihaokills]

Just don't deal with them anymore.... People change their minds

 

[Chairshot]

Agreed that there is no deal until it's through the site, which can be annoying but it's the only fair way to do it. By the way, it helps if the league rules state that no trades are official until they are submitted through the site, that way no one feels like anyone backed out of an agreed upon deal.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think everyone agrees that there's nothing you can do and the trade isn't final until it's really final...but I can sympathize with this owner. To go back and forth and have someone agree-- then change their mind is frustrating.

Going back and forth through 40 emails, you didn't get some sense that the guy wasn't as serious as you were? If it takes that long, it's not a "let's get this done" atmosphere. At some point you have to wonder if you're spinning your wheels. If negotiations are taking 40 emails, I'm not feeling very confident about it working out. Maybe you should have bailed earlier or gotten to the endgame quicker.

 

[The Comedian]

Yeah, you do sound whiny. Not official until it's accepted, so the owner isn't "backing out."

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I know several players that love to banter back and forth in e-mail and get an agreement there before changing their mind. They believe they can figure out what you're willing to pay via e-mail and then at the end want you to add more because they believe you will.

I just end all negotiations with those kind of players immediately and refuse to deal with them moving forward unless they make offers on MFL.

It's not always about changing your mind. Some guys do it as "strategy" in their own mind.

 

[Longshot88]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

The best way to combat this is to give each deal a time limit. If the other owner doesn't either reject or accept within that time I revoke the offer. I then re-evaluate whether that owner is worth receiving another offer from me in the future and how long into the future that will be.

 

[D.J.]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

The best way to combat this is to give each deal a time limit. If the other owner doesn't either reject or accept within that time I revoke the offer. I then re-evaluate whether that owner is worth receiving another offer from me in the future and how long into the future that will be.

Wow, I can't believe how sensitive people are about this stuff. Its business, people handle business in different ways and some people take longer to make decisions. Especially this tine of year. What's the rush? When you start saying things like "i just won't deal with that person anymore" or for x amount of time you are punishing yourself as much as you are punishing them. You have every right to do that, but I just don't understand it. Why limit yourself unless someone is legitimately trying to deceive or cheat you?

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

The best way to combat this is to give each deal a time limit. If the other owner doesn't either reject or accept within that time I revoke the offer. I then re-evaluate whether that owner is worth receiving another offer from me in the future and how long into the future that will be.

Wow, I can't believe how sensitive people are about this stuff. Its business, people handle business in different ways and some people take longer to make decisions. Especially this tine of year. What's the rush? When you start saying things like "i just won't deal with that person anymore" or for x amount of time you are punishing yourself as much as you are punishing them. You have every right to do that, but I just don't understand it. Why limit yourself unless someone is legitimately trying to deceive or cheat you?

Who wants to make offers and have them sit out there for weeks? Maybe I want to make someone else an offer involving the same players and don't want said player(s) to be dangling in another offer. I think fantasy owners are obligated to make a decision on an offer in an acceptable time frame and weeks isn't it. Also, there are some owners who never respond to offers, or there are those who wait weeks to respond. I wouldn't say they endear themselves to future trade offers, or at least not many offers.

 

[squistion]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

The best way to combat this is to give each deal a time limit. If the other owner doesn't either reject or accept within that time I revoke the offer. I then re-evaluate whether that owner is worth receiving another offer from me in the future and how long into the future that will be.

Wow, I can't believe how sensitive people are about this stuff. Its business, people handle business in different ways and some people take longer to make decisions. Especially this tine of year. What's the rush? When you start saying things like "i just won't deal with that person anymore" or for x amount of time you are punishing yourself as much as you are punishing them. You have every right to do that, but I just don't understand it. Why limit yourself unless someone is legitimately trying to deceive or cheat you?

What's the rush? I get very nervous in keeping trade offers open for an extended period of time. I think a good recent example would be if you had made a trade offer for Brandon Marshall which had not been accepted, then you learn he was stabbed - in that instance you got to hope you make to the league site to revoke the offer before it is accepted. Yes, these situations happen infrequently, but it is enough of a concern to me that if I don't hear anything from the other party within 48 hours of making the trade offer (longer on weekends) I revoke the offer - and if they really like it they can always make it back to me (and that has been done several occassions).

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I run it to this a little bit, but my biggest issue is owners that think about a deal for days or weeks on end and dont have the guts to pull the trigger .IMO some people are Just to scared to make a move i hate playing with owners like this.

The best way to combat this is to give each deal a time limit. If the other owner doesn't either reject or accept within that time I revoke the offer. I then re-evaluate whether that owner is worth receiving another offer from me in the future and how long into the future that will be.

Wow, I can't believe how sensitive people are about this stuff. Its business, people handle business in different ways and some people take longer to make decisions. Especially this tine of year. What's the rush? When you start saying things like "i just won't deal with that person anymore" or for x amount of time you are punishing yourself as much as you are punishing them. You have every right to do that, but I just don't understand it. Why limit yourself unless someone is legitimately trying to deceive or cheat you?

What's the rush? I get very nervous in keeping trade offers open for an extended period of time. I think a good recent example would be if you had made a trade offer for Brandon Marshall which had not been accepted, then you learn he was stabbed - in that instance you got to hope you make to the league site to revoke the offer before it is accepted. Yes, these situations happen infrequently, but it is enough of a concern to me that if I don't hear anything from the other party within 48 hours of making the trade offer (longer on weekends) I revoke the offer - and if they really like it they can always make it back to me (and that has been done several occassions).

nice post.

 

[Lambert]

Twice in the last week I have worked out trades with other owners only to have them want to change it when it comes time to post.In one, we emailed back and forth 40 times and had an agreement. Then when I said, do you want to post it or me he changed his mind back to a much earlier point in the negotiations. I still liked the trade enough to go with it, but it wasn't what we agreed.In the second, we finally agreed via email and I sent the offer through MFL only to get a response that he changed his mind and didn't want to give up that many picks any more.What do you do with owners like this? Is it worth trying to get the Commish to hold him to the agreement? I hate to sound whiny, but twice in one week in two different leagues and two different people is starting to annoy me.

I agree with most of the previous posters. I will add two points:First, and I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily your situation, but the fact is that a lot of times there can be a sincere difference of opinion about whether a firm agreement has been reached or not. "That sounds like a workable deal -- why don't you go ahead and send an offer?" may not be intended as a firm commitment, but the recipient of the message might reasonably take it as such, depending on the circumstances.Second, assuming there definitely was a firm commitment orally or by email, there's nothing wrong with trying to appeal to the other guy's sense of honor to try to get him/her to live up to the "handshake" agreement the two of you made. But as many of the previous posters have stated, the bottom line is that there's no official deal to enforce until he clicks the "accept" button. If he/she doesn't want to honor his word, all you can do is keep that in mind if you have any future dealings with the guy.

 

[FTRWRTR]

Slightly off subject, I hate it when someone accepts a deal through MFL and then says it was a mistake. To accept a deal in MFL you have to make two clicks and we all know it's extremely unlikely they can make a mistake accepting a deal. Truth be known the only mistake is cold feet.

Not true at all, ppl can add conditions, like money, into the comment section. It's possible to look at the trade part, like what you see and hit accept, then notice in the comment section they also want $200 or whatever. Since the comment section isn't used that much it's very possible for someone to not look at that part of the deal.

 

[cheatsheetwarroom]

As the commissioner in my leagues I never even consider a trade unless it has been agreed upon THROUGH THE LEAGUE SITE. In other words you can agree to a trade verbally, on a napkin, on a written contract, and it is all worthless unless both players push the trade through using our league website. This makes things much more cut and dry and make the job much easier on the commissioner as well.

Sometimes people will email me saying "Hey I talked to so-and-so and we agreed to a trade but he doesn't have access right now and we want to get it pushed through". I say "tough titty", either the trade has been agreed upon through the site or it hasn't. Adopt this approach and it'll make your life much easier.

 

[doowain]

Man...lots of thin skin in this hobby.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You simply choose to hold it against them or not... and choose to tolet everyone know what they are dealing with when dealing with that owner or not.

Otherwise, nothing is official until the ink is dry and the commish/software has approved it.

 

[KellysHeroes]

If it happens once or twice with the same guy I would let it go.. I would honestly forget about it in a week or 2. But if it kept happening I would just ignore his emails and tell him to send me an offer though the site when hes serious.

 

[huntunc]

Thanks to everybody for the responses. Its helped a lot to know what the consensus is around here and how to handle folks going forward.

As a wrinkle, the second trade was in a league where it is only email and message boards during the offseasoon. So there is no possibility to accept or make an offer through the site. The deal is you work out your trades via email and then one person posts it and the other posts that that was the agreement.

 

[cheatsheetwarroom]

Thanks to everybody for the responses. Its helped a lot to know what the consensus is around here and how to handle folks going forward. As a wrinkle, the second trade was in a league where it is only email and message boards during the offseasoon. So there is no possibility to accept or make an offer through the site. The deal is you work out your trades via email and then one person posts it and the other posts that that was the agreement.

That works just as well I imagine, the key is having both parties agree and have a timestamp on it. The reason the timestamp comes into play is when one of the players involved in the trade gets injured (or suspended) before the trade has been reviewed by the league and approved by the commissioner. The scenario is that Team A and Team B agree to trade Player A and Player B. While the league is reviewing the trade, Player B breaks his arm in practice? So what do you do as the commissioner?We have adopted the stance that trades are ALWAYS REVIEWED IN THE CONTEXT OF THE TIME THE TRADE WAS ACCEPTED. In other words, you cannot consider the injury as part of evaluating if the trade is fair or not because the trade was accepted before the injury. Many other things can happen which would make someone was to rescind the trade (suspension, a player losing their starting spot, etc) so it is good to have a rule in place to handle this. The only way I as commissioner will take the trade off of the board is if both parties agree to rescind the trade.

 

[Jersey35]

Until a player is on your roster, he isn't your player.

If you look at things that way, you'll be less likely to get upset when people change their minds. You'll also feel more comfortable when you need to change yours.