Trent Richardson vs. Jonathan Stewart (1 Viewer)

[az_prof]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's. As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting. Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less. Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

 

[todisco1]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

Please stay out of the thread if you don't like the subject. You're not bringing anything constructive to the discussion.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I think Richardson is being valued appropriately by most - there is a good argument for him starting at RB4. Stewart, though, is definitely undervalued. No one is looking at trading Richardson for him because you can get him for quite a bit less. He seems to be in a tier with (or below) guys like Murray, Ingram, Spiller, etc. He is far more proven than any of those guys, and has just as clear a path to a starting gig, except not until 2013, at least barring injury.

 

[shader]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip.

/thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last year

Dumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's.

As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting.

Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less.

Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

If that is what this thread has taught you, than you need to "un-learn" all that you've been taught from this thread.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's. As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting. Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less. Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

I don't see why he should be valued like Stewart. He is a much better prospect. To me he is the best RB coming out since ...... Hershel Walker. One of the top 5 RB prospects since the inception of the NFL. Now why in the hell would I put Stewart up there when I liked at least 10 RB prospects in the last decade more.

 

[Nero]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's. As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting. Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less. Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

I don't see why he should be valued like Stewart. He is a much better prospect. To me he is the best RB coming out since ...... Hershel Walker. One of the top 5 RB prospects since the inception of the NFL. Now why in the hell would I put Stewart up there when I liked at least 10 RB prospects in the last decade more.

It's amazing how people are drinking the Richardson Kool-aid. I suppose you purposely put he is the best since Heschel, to suggest he is better than AD. He is not in the same class as Peterson as a prospect, even if you think he is the best since Peterson. Given his limited workout numbers and the fact that he played in an offense that made an average physical talent like Ingram look all world, I'm not sure how big a step up his from Wilson and Martin of this year's draft. The list of 10 RB prospects who were better than Stewart invyour opinion would be interesting. Sure, you could find 10 backs who have more success than Stewart at this point, but 10 better prospects? I doubt it.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's. As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting. Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less. Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

I don't see why he should be valued like Stewart. He is a much better prospect. To me he is the best RB coming out since ...... Hershel Walker. One of the top 5 RB prospects since the inception of the NFL. Now why in the hell would I put Stewart up there when I liked at least 10 RB prospects in the last decade more.

It's amazing how people are drinking the Richardson Kool-aid. I suppose you purposely put he is the best since Heschel, to suggest he is better than AD. He is not in the same class as Peterson as a prospect, even if you think he is the best since Peterson. Given his limited workout numbers and the fact that he played in an offense that made an average physical talent like Ingram look all world, I'm not sure how big a step up his from Wilson and Martin of this year's draft. The list of 10 RB prospects who were better than Stewart invyour opinion would be interesting. Sure, you could find 10 backs who have more success than Stewart at this point, but 10 better prospects? I doubt it.

Better than AP as a prospect IMO.

 

[Sabertooth]

Dumb topic with no purpose. A fishing trip. /thread

No it isn't. Both are big backs with soft hands. Both have a lot of speed for big backs. Both have high draft pedigrees. Haters are gonna hate but let's face it, no two NFL players are alike. But these two have enough in common to warrant the comparison. People compare backs all the time. So and so is like Brian Westbrook or he's another Corey Dillon. I'm not sure why my threads get so polarizing but if you don't like the thread don't come in here. Sheesh.

Jay Cutler vs Andrew LuckAJ Green vs Santonio Holmes at this time last yearDumb.

I have found this thread very insightful. If you don't, then don't post.To me, this thread has shown me not so much that Stewart is more likely to succeed than Richardson, but that Richardson is highly over valued. He is over valued because his value should be closer to Stewart's. As for your analogy, I think it is misleading. Holmes is not a good comparison to Stewart. Holmes is 28 and has had an opportunity to be a featured Wr for a number of years. He has been on a steady decline the past two years eventhough he is starting. Stewart should be compared to a WR who has flashed stud potential but hasn't had an opportunity to fully show what he can do. Dez Bryant or Kenny Britt perhaps. And interestingly, the perceived value differential last year between those two guys and AJ Green was less. Cutler is a horrible example too. There really isn't a good example because QBs who are high picks usually get to start and don't share time with another QB, but I guess it could be someone like Bradford.

I don't see why he should be valued like Stewart. He is a much better prospect. To me he is the best RB coming out since ...... Hershel Walker. One of the top 5 RB prospects since the inception of the NFL. Now why in the hell would I put Stewart up there when I liked at least 10 RB prospects in the last decade more.

Oh my.

 

[shader]

He's the best prospect since AP. Thats as far as I'd go.

 

[Brothers Mayhem]

Until TRich lands in a committee, I'd hold the JStew comparisons.

 

[shader]

Until TRich lands in a committee, I'd hold the JStew comparisons.

Terrible comparison. No idea who thought of it.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Until TRich lands in a committee, I'd hold the JStew comparisons.

Terrible comparison. No idea who thought of it.

Absolutely. Sounds like a disgruntled Stewart owner.

 

[Brothers Mayhem]

 shader, on 25 April 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

 Brothers Mayhem, on 25 April 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Until TRich lands in a committee, I'd hold the JStew comparisons.

Terrible comparison. No idea who thought of it.

Absolutely. Sounds like a disgruntled Stewart owner.

Guess I did a poor job of posting my opinion. I would never compare any rookie with no nfl experience to any player that has nfl experience, except when I am comparing cosmetic attributes such as size comparisons or style of running. JStew has proven himself. TRich is still job hunting. I understand that some want to project TRich to become like JStew and that some of you think otherwise.

All opinions have been noted and read. Now I wait to see.

 

[Sabertooth]

What I think is funny is the outrage that I have the audacity to compare Stewart to the great Richardson.

 

[JPeso]

Every year, at every position, and for MOST players, there are always comparisons saying this guys is like Frank Gore. This guy is like Wes Welker, this guys is Jason Witten. On and on and on. And, for the vast majority, if you go back and review them after a few years, they are dead wrong.

Comparing a guy that has played in the NFL with a guy who hasn't is almost pointless. Not the comparison, but to post and say so universally that Richardson is "clearly better". There is almost no way to prove that today, in the present.

Last year at this time, there threads putting Mark Ingram in the Hall of fame and he was the best prospect since ADP and he was comparable to Frank Gore. Did we see Frank Gore II last year? Is anyone talking about him right now, today?

Its just the hype of rookies and for that reason, I would take JSTEW straight up in a trade of the two because If Richardson comes in and has a Ryan Matthews rookie season, the value falls. If he comes in and has a Mark Ingram season, the value really falls ("Uh Oh, maybe we overrated these Alabama RBs"). If he comes in and has a Jamal Lewis Rookie season, his value is solid, but not as high as it right now in some people's minds because he has to BE like ADP to justify the expectations of what people are saying (and presumably are getting in trades for the 1.01 pick). But JSTEW? He can do less than he did a few years ago when he was top 10 and even less than what he did last season and STILL, one year from today, his value will be sky high because the masses will be saying "FINALLY! JSTEW is ready to be THE guy on a team". Richardson might be the better player. He might put up the better numbers. We will see. But if you are wanting to pick one for value on your fantasy team, there is no contest. It is JSTEW by a mile!

I realize it's an old post but. Do you still feel this way? You can change tune now if you'd like, now that we know landing spots (Stewart stays in CAR, Trent in CLE). We also have Trent's latest knee issue. I'm also not sure if someone has already mentioned any of below items so not trying to steal thunder, more trying to ramble for 10 of my 10 minutes without wasting time to proof or read. It doesn't matter what Trent does on the field, the chances that Trent carries less value than Stewart's upside in dynasty start-ups next off-season (as the point you attempt to make above) is far slimmer than Trent having a Mathews-like offseason and dropping to late 3rd/early 4th start-up value as Mathews did. Let's say Stewart produces RB8 stats (legitimately here, how high can he really get for this coming season?).. of the guys ranked above him in short-term points on Stewart's probable short-term upside.. 6/7 are younger than him. Stewart was being "aggressively drafted" this off-season as a late 2nd rounder. Aggressively. How much higher can he really go next off-season with the QB/TE/WR, 6 younger RB than him (not considering Trent). I don't see much upside here in terms of value...again, not my only metric, but the one you are trying to point to above in seemingly flawed reasoning. Meanwhile how far is TRENT really going to far? In this changing landscape of RBBC? HOW MUCH CAN HE REALLY DECREASE? RB~4 now in good dynasty leagues down to RB~8 in good dynasty leagues? He's not falling lower than that with a Mathews-rookie year. [before I move on, Mathews as average RB10-12 in start-ups pre-rookie year at the height of things, RB16-18 afterward. Not exactly a huge drop that I'd want to be using to prove my point in the first place that Trent's value has a long way to go down in a year. Sure the message boards may have started topics to begin the demise of Mathews after his rookie year but you have to sift through that, ya know?]

Trent is a pimp that won't scare away owners from drafting him in the early 2nd as RB6 or so, mid 2nd as RB8-9 in a worst case scenario with a Mathews-like year. Meanwhile Stewart needs to leapfrog, in this season's scoring, Foster, Shady, Rice, healthy DMC, even Mathews when he returns, to really move up in the world. (this is not even to mention somewhat similarly valued dynasty options such as Forte, Charles, Chris Johnson, Martin, Spiller, might be missing some but this suffices).

Mathews and Trent are not comparable in terms of value as prospect coming out, or expected value through and at end of each player's careers. I hate doing this, but it's not remotely close, and thus the argument of this "drop" in value isn't even a potential if we assumed the bracketed sentence above was really a scary drop. Whether you agree or not, owners will accept more bull#### from Trent than Mathews (or obviously, Stewart prospectively after 4 years in the league). Look at it now with Mathews' clavicle that might end his life!!!!! If Trent has a clavicle after missing the same number of games going into year 3 of careers... do you think owners would be jumping off the bandwagon as much? Maybe I'm just gullible but I'm sure as hell not. Wherever I don't own Trent I can't imagine they would either.

Stewart's a better prospect than Mathews, doesn't mean he has a better career. Trent and Stewart are closer and an argument can be made either way.

it may make more sense if you read the above in a frantic nature

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

Trent Richardson = stronger/faster version of Emmitt Smith.Richardson >>> Stewart............not because of numbers, cause they pretty close, but because of my own two eyes. T-Rich just a better RB.

I've thought this for a while, great comparison.

 

[Zeff]

Potential: A french word meaning "hasn't done S@#t yet!"

Richardson is a young man who was a boy playing against other boys and young men. JSTEW has produced in a league where they are ALL men. You can't discount that and say one is better based on a word (potential) that has no tangibe evidence of actually accomplishing anything.

A shiny red corvette has tons of POTENTIAL when its been blowing the doors off of Mustangs on a straight stretch. But what happens when you put it on a curvy track against a BMW?

It's not like Stewart has taken to the curvy track against a BMW either. Maybe he's one step closer, but still not there. All he's done is do what dozens of other RBs that went on to fail in a feature role have done before - he played fairly well in a timeshare on a team with an extremely RB friendly system. That's not to mention that Stewart did it while being outpaced by his peers in that same system and also put up well below average fantasy numbers during his 6-game stretch as the feature guy, and numbers beneath what Mike Goodson did as the feature guy on the same team in the 3 weeks leading up to that.I think Stewart is a good RB and would excel in a feature role on a worse team, but it boggles my mind how people sit here and toss around words like "potential" and "unproven" with Richardson while treating Stewart like he's not "potential" at this point as well. We need to stop treating this like it's a guarantee that the only thing holding Stewart back is opportunity, because we don't know how he'd handle 350 carries and we don't know how he'd handle not being on a team that could churn 4.5ypc out of Curtis Enis if they had to.



Fun fact of the day. Stewart has never led the Panthers in YPC.

If you are going to throw something out there as if you know what you are talking about, you should at least not mislead people. He and Williams had the same ypc last season--5.4, which isn't too shabby. Considering this is the most recent season, it is also the most relevant. This makes me question most of what you allege since you appear to want to distort the facts and mislead people.http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/car/stats

That would be a tie, not the lead

Plus Cam newton had 5.6 if you want to get technical

By these standards, Barry Sanders never led the Lions in YPC.