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Trump and Bigotry: A False Association (2 Viewers)

Thorn said:
I guess I don't follow politics enough, but "alt right"?  What is that?  Alternative right?
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Yes. Its a white nationalist movement. For whom Breitbart (formerly lead by Steve Bannon, Trump's new top advisor) was the premium news source.

 
Bannon, while leading Breitbart after Andrew Breitbart's death, openly called for Breitbart to be the haven of the AltRight.  That's where most of the racial criticism of Bannon comes from.  

This is how Breitbart's contributing writers, including Milo Yiannopoulos, describe the AltRight. It's a good beginning to understanding.

Edit:  Keep in mind, this is a proponent and mouthpiece of the Alt Right attempting to describe it in as palatable a way as possible.

 
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Henry Ford said:
Yes.  It's a phrase coined by Spencer to describe this new movement.  And you should read up on it.  It's a loose conglomeration of new right movements, including (perhaps at this point especially) those who espouse a very clear white nationalist message and want to establish a protected white European state as a haven for what they're calling a global white minority that they believe is threatened in the coming century.
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Would we still be able to get good Mexican food there (asking for a friend)?

 
Henry Ford said:
I have some serious issues with a number of the statements in the article in the original post.  In particular, equating the number of members of the KKK (not even including the LWK) with the number of white nationalists in this country is absurd, the number of "members" of the altright cannot be determined by the number of people who have registered accounts on /r/altright, and stormfront had 300,000 members at peak within the last few years.  That's just off the top of my head.  It's also worth noting that there was an 18% increase in the number of KKK chapters in this country in the last year.  

Furthermore, a graph depicting the prevalence of strong racist tendencies that ends in the late 90s and somehow believes it "presumably remains" in that level today is ridiculous.  That's 20 years ago, for those counting, and the number of hate groups and white nationalist/separatist groups and group members changed significantly under President Obama.  And not for the better.  Those graphs also tell a story that is very important right now.  If they even stayed at the 1999 levels, we're talking about roughly 4-5% of the population would not vote for a black candidate of his/her party if qualified. That sounds like a really small number, until you consider that there are about 218MM registered voters in this country.  That's roughly eleven million people holding that view.  Which, compared to 1996 numbers, would be an increase of around a million people, despite static percentages. It is unlikely that those people voted for Clinton.  Consider as well the links inside that article - by 2012 the number was 4% according to the same polling (but not included on graph.)  2016, that number was 7%.  It nearly doubled in four years leading up to this election.  And again, if those numbers are correct you're talking about over fifteen million people. 

That said, true, members of identifiable hate groups do not make up the majority of Trump's supporters. But they make up a very vocal segment, and they're being used intentionally by the administration (particularly, in my opinion, Bannon) with full knowledge of what makes those groups tick.  I do not believe that Trump is a "true believer" in any way. I don't believe Stephen Bannon is, either. But they are using racial animus (and religious, and orientation, and misogyny) in order to create a new coalition in the manner of Nixon's, only more reactionary and, in many ways, more intellectually capable and focused.  The alt right began as a group of free speech ideologues who expressed that freedom through statements considered unacceptable to polite society, which made it a haven for white nationalists, neo nazis, and other bigoted organizations, to the point where they have strong control over the movement behind Richard Spencer of the National Policy Institute.

Anyone claiming Trump is Hitler is reaching.  Anyone who isn't at all concerned about Bannon or the alt right movement is missing what's going on.
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:goodposting:  

 
I don't know how many pro Trump posters have really be in here discussing this, 3-4 or 5 or so? But I haven't really heard much dispute about what Bannon is about, the dispute appears to really be about whether it's objectionable and really most Trumpites here don't think so. 

I know MT originally posted about *Trump and most people are concerned about *Trump but to the extent some still consider him an open question or vague or on a sliding scale if some kind well Bannon really fills in those holes for me.

 
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Well, Trump really is an open question...I have zero confidence predicting what's going to happen next.  It's part of the reason, I haven't gone all in on my personal opinion that he's an idiot and setting the country up for disaster.  It sorta seems that way, but just as I get comfortable with that he goes and tells us that gay marriage is settled and he's ok with that.  At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he nominated Obama for a SC position :lol:   

 
The Commish said:
Well, Trump really is an open question...I have zero confidence predicting what's going to happen next.  It's part of the reason, I haven't gone all in on my personal opinion that he's an idiot and setting the country up for disaster.  It sorta seems that way, but just as I get comfortable with that he goes and tells us that gay marriage is settled and he's ok with that.  At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he nominated Obama for a SC position :lol:   
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If he did this the right would riot, but it would be the greatest FU to the GOP.

 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
The Commish said:
Well, Trump really is an open question...I have zero confidence predicting what's going to happen next.  It's part of the reason, I haven't gone all in on my personal opinion that he's an idiot and setting the country up for disaster.  It sorta seems that way, but just as I get comfortable with that he goes and tells us that gay marriage is settled and he's ok with that.  At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he nominated Obama for a SC position :lol:   
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If he did this the right would riot, but it would be the greatest FU to the GOP.
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Very True.....he won't, but if anyone might, it'd be him.  While I don't agree with Obama's stance on several of our foreign policy choices, I think he's generally a good dude.  I think he has good intentions.  I think he was over his head on Obamacare once he let the public option go, but I wouldn't mind seeing him on the SC.

 
The Commish said:
No it doesn't....but neither does belittling black people by referring to them as "the little guy"...it's condescending and disrespectful  
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Minorities are by definition "the little guy".

I can't believe this even needs to be explained.

And considering I am a minority, I certainly wasn't being condescending or disrespectful to myself.

 
Skoo said:
Minorities are by definition "the little guy".

I can't believe this even needs to be explained.

And considering I am a minority, I certainly wasn't being condescending or disrespectful to myself.
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Wrong.

The half black half white female that gets into Harvard because of her skin color / gender and then gets a job making 250k a year talking about diversity isn't "the little guy"

 
ilikedwight said:
Wrong.

The half black half white female that gets into Harvard because of her skin color / gender and then gets a job making 250k a year talking about diversity isn't "the little guy"
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That's a very specific person to take a stand against.  What's her name?

 
ilikedwight said:
Wrong.

The half black half white female that gets into Harvard because of her skin color / gender and then gets a job making 250k a year talking about diversity isn't "the little guy"
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Yes its much better if she couldn't get into Harvard at all.

 
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Henry Ford said:
Bannon, while leading Breitbart after Andrew Breitbart's death ...
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OK, I've been wondering about what happened to Breitbart. My memory had been that at one time, Breitbart had been at least as legitimate a news/opinion site as, say, Huffington Post or Drudge Report (all having their philosophical leans, of course).

 
Doug B said:
OK, I've been wondering about what happened to Breitbart. My memory had been that at one time, Breitbart had been at least as legitimate a news/opinion site as, say, Huffington Post or Drudge Report (all having their philosophical leans, of course).
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It was always a little fringe/conspiracy.  But yes, very Drudge - Andrew Breitbart was from Drudge.

 
Andrew Breitbart started it originally as a pro-Israel ultra conservative publication meant to combat the left-wing media machine.  He was very anti-racism (or even, generally, the hint of the appearance of racism) and believed in a strict wall between politicians and the media.  If there's an afterlife, he's probably not very happy about what's happened to Breitbart in his absence. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Andrew Breitbart started it originally as a pro-Israel ultra conservative publication meant to combat the left-wing media machine.  He was very anti-racism (or even, generally, the hint of the appearance of racism) and believed in a strict wall between politicians and the media.  If there's an afterlife, he's probably not very happy about what's happened to Breitbart in his absence. 
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True.

 
ilikedwight said:
Wrong.

The half black half white female that gets into Harvard because of her skin color / gender and then gets a job making 250k a year talking about diversity isn't "the little guy"
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You got this from Coulter.

What the heck are you and her talking about? Why this obsession over people of mixed race getting into Harvard? This sounds like it must be a massive problem.

 
ilikedwight said:
In the modern Democratic Party, out-of-work coal miners are constantly denounced for their "privilege" by half-black girls at Yale -- who wouldn't have gotten in without the black half -- and who will be paid a quarter-million dollars as the "diversity coordinator" at some Fortune 500 corporation.
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(ILW, citingCoulter)

:confused:

 
ilikedwight said:
Wrong.

The half black half white female that gets into Harvard because of her skin color / gender and then gets a job making 250k a year talking about diversity isn't "the little guy"
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I'm not sure how "female" even enters into this discussion.  Women are both a majority of this country and have higher SAT scores on Harvard admission.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Where does the " half black half white female" part for you enter into it?
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There is no such thing as white privilege but there is oppressed privilege. Females are considered oppressed. Gays are considered oppressed. Minorities are considered oppressed. Being considered oppressed without actually being oppressed is a privilege that gives you an elite advantage in life. From lower college acceptance standards to easier job promotions.

 
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Henry Ford said:
Bannon, while leading Breitbart after Andrew Breitbart's death, openly called for Breitbart to be the haven of the AltRight.  That's where most of the racial criticism of Bannon comes from.  

This is how Breitbart's contributing writers, including Milo Yiannopoulos, describe the AltRight. It's a good beginning to understanding.

Edit:  Keep in mind, this is a proponent and mouthpiece of the Alt Right attempting to describe it in as palatable a way as possible.
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Good article, thanks.

Outside of the racist elements that the author acknowledges (the 1488ers), would you also describe the other groups he says make up the movement as racist? Or is he wrong about which other groups make up the movement?

 
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ilikedwight said:
There is no such thing as white privilege but there is oppressed privilege. Females are considered oppressed. Gays are considered oppressed. Minorities are considered oppressed. Being considered oppressed without actually being oppressed is a privilege that gives you an elite advantage in life. From lower college acceptance standards to easier job promotions.
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- Just help out with the argument, why is the mixed black female the issue here? Why not any minority? You and Coulter specifically mention half black females at Ivy League schools. Why not UT or LSU or Loyola Marymount?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- Just help out with the argument, why is the mixed black female the issue here? Why not any minority? You and Coulter specifically mention half black females at Ivy League schools. Why not UT or LSU or Loyola Marymount?
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Because it is a visual and visuals make for a better persuasive argument. It could have been anyone from the "oppressed" didn't have to be a black female

 
Black Box said:
Good article, thanks.

Outside of the racist elements that the author acknowledges (the 1488ers), would you also describe the other groups he says make up the movement as racist? Or is he wrong about which other groups make up the movement?
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I think the writers are "wrong" about (and really, downplaying) the voice of racism within the group.  Yes, there are lots of diverse types of people supporting the alt right, just as there were a lot of diverse types of people supporting the Confederacy.  But when the Confederacy defined itself, it did so in terms of slavery.

The alt right is defining itself in terms of white nationalism and Leninist-style destabilization of the existing state in an effort to rebuild in that image. And the voice of the alt right - the man who gave it its name - is a very intelligent, very persuasive, very educated white nationalist who absolutely has full support from the alt right and absolutely intends to work toward that goal.

 
I read part of the article.  It is an interesting spin for people who are just dying be believe Trump is good.

My main points:

1.  Trump is an expert at talking vaguely and innuendo when it suits him.  He never goes back to clear up the issue, but his surrogate try to interpret it in a more friendly light. And Trump never apologizes for it.

For instance, many times he said the election was rigged and his supports should vote, then go to other places and watch the polls.  People know he meant places where blacks vote, possible to intimidate them.  But he never came out and said it.  He never clarified his position.  But his supporters know what he is talking about.  Then the surrogates state is he talking about media bias, which has nothing to do with going to other parts of the state.

Trump is smart.  If he wanted to be clear, he would have been clear.  He is purposely vague to communicate his message and claim he never said it.

2.  There are underlying feelings across the country that could be considered racist if they came out in the open.  Trump tapped into this and fed off of it.  Spouting the number of registered KKK members or people registered on alt right websites does not represent the mood of the country.  In fact, I predict that alt right websites and thinking will become much more popular and open with the election of Trump and Bannon as campaign chief and now Strategic Consultant.  As a minority, I think this is bad for the country.  Certainly bad for minorities living in the country, even us legal ones who are citizens.

An anecdote:  My wife's family had a family gathering.  My mother in law (white who has never vote Democrat in her life) unprompted brought up the problem with Muslims in the country.  She said it was not safe and as proof, noted that Sweden let too many Muslims in and now there is crime everyone.  No one feels safe in Sweden.  You could hear the fear in her voice.  I doubt she is on alt right web sites or a member of the KKK, but Trump certain tapped her fears.

 
If you don't think things can get ugly, here is a quote from Republican Corey Stewart, who is running for Virginia Governor next year:

“If you’re an illegal alien in Prince William County, I’d get out,” said Stewart, who chairs the county’s board of supervisors. “It’s the very first thing I’m going to do with a friendly Trump administration. Now we’re going to find out where each and every one of these guys is, and we’re going hunt them down and we’re going to deport them.”
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Last time Prince William County cracked down on illegal immigrants, housing prices fell 40-50%, just before the housing bubbles (nearby counties fell 20% or so).

Here is the full article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/trump-win-shakes-up-2017-race-for-virginia-governor/2016/11/10/bb0cc442-a6a2-11e6-8042-f4d111c862d1_story.html

 
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