Trump and Obamacare (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

OK here are the facts as I see them- if you think I'm wrong, please correct me: 

1. The Obamacare rate hikes were a huge factor in getting Trump elected. The largely white middle class voters in swing states such as Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Carolina are already suffering about how much they have to pay for health insurance and don't want to pay more. 

2. However, these same voters love the benefits that come with Obamacare-specifically the no-pre-existing conditions and keeping your kids on insurance until mid 20s, and they don't want to give that up. 

3. Many voters in traditionally red states have a more extreme view- they regard Obamacare as socialism and therefore evil and they just want it repealed immediately, and to hell with the consequences. 

4. Trump had vowed all throughout his campaign to immediately, upon taking office, to repeal and replace Obamacare. Like many members of Congress who have made this same promise, the "replace" part has never been defined. But Trump has, after the election, promised to keep the pre-existing conditions and the over 20 stuff. How he will manage to do this while keeping prices low without a mandate is beyond me. There is simply no way that insurance companies can offer the same price to everyone and afford to stay in business. 

5. Since the election, the amount of enrollment for Obamacare has surged by 6 million people, a 13% increase over last year. 

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

Dude

 

[Fantasy Football Fairy]

"You're pushing your luck little man"

 

[timschochet]

Apparently the Republicans cannot fully repeal Obamacare for a number of years. However they are planning on cutting benefits almost immediately. Here are the details: 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nola.com/articles/19873084/gop_wants_trump_trim_aca_benef.amp?client=safari

 

[El Floppo]

I wonder how many people complaining about obamacare are actually on obamacare.

I'm on it. has brought my rates for my family down to 1/3 what we were previously paying. for me as an independent contractor, it's a game-changer. but I'm open to hearing how it's making my life worse... or yours. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I wonder how many people complaining about obamacare are actually on obamacare.

I'm on it. has brought my rates for my family down to 1/3 what we were previously paying. for me as an independent contractor, it's a game-changer. but I'm open to hearing how it's making my life worse... or yours. 

I quit corporate America this year and started my own business. So I'm on it. And I complain about it. The practice my wife takes our kids to will stop accepting any marketplace plans on Jan 1st, 2017. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

 The practice my wife takes our kids to will stop accepting any marketplace plans on Jan 1st, 2017. 

Do you know why?  

 

[Politician Spock]

Do you know why?  

I can only assume, as they aren't a publicly traded company, so they don't have to make their business decisions public. 

 

[GoBirds]

"You're pushing your luck little man"

He loves poking the Tiger.....instead of using the Obamacare thread or titling "The future of Obamacare " he has to put Trump in the title to taunt the powers that be. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

So, if Tim changed the titled to something like "the future of Obamacare", there wouldn't be an issue?

 

[El Floppo]

I quit corporate America this year and started my own business. So I'm on it. And I complain about it. The practice my wife takes our kids to will stop accepting any marketplace plans on Jan 1st, 2017. 

that sucks. we've run into this kind of thing every year... this year the hospital group that all of our doctors belong decided to stop taking Oscar for 2017.. so we had to switch to another provider. so even though it's helped me out- yeah, it has some real flaws.

these are flaws that need fixing, not scrapping, IMO. but... I did like that Trump wanted to open up state-lines for competition. living in NYC, our rates are absurdly high compared to most other people for the same coverage. hopefully whatever trump proposes or whatever other change happens, doesn't leave those of us on obamacare in a black-hole. 

 

[El Floppo]

lol. I'm glad I"ve avoided the political threads. 

of course it's Trump who is going to change obamacare... but it appears that things are so bad in here that even mentioning his name bunches panties? amidst so-called adults?

 

[GoBirds]

So, if Tim changed the titled to something like "the future of Obamacare", there wouldn't be an issue?

Then he would just have 2 threads on the same topic since he can't use the Obamacare thread for some reason. But hey why not push the envelope. 

 

[bostonfred]

Please move to the politics forum

 

[bueno]

OK here are the facts as I see them- if you think I'm wrong, please correct me: 

1. The Obamacare rate hikes were a huge factor in getting Trump elected. The largely white middle class voters in swing states such as Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Carolina are already suffering about how much they have to pay for health insurance and don't want to pay more. 

2. However, these same voters love the benefits that come with Obamacare-specifically the no-pre-existing conditions and keeping your kids on insurance until mid 20s, and they don't want to give that up. 

3. Many voters in traditionally red states have a more extreme view- they regard Obamacare as socialism and therefore evil and they just want it repealed immediately, and to hell with the consequences. 

4. Trump had vowed all throughout his campaign to immediately, upon taking office, to repeal and replace Obamacare. Like many members of Congress who have made this same promise, the "replace" part has never been defined. But Trump has, after the election, promised to keep the pre-existing conditions and the over 20 stuff. How he will manage to do this while keeping prices low without a mandate is beyond me. There is simply no way that insurance companies can offer the same price to everyone and afford to stay in business. 

5. Since the election, the amount of enrollment for Obamacare has surged by 6 million people, a 13% increase over last year. 

I am on Medicare. When I went on Medicare, Medigap and my wife's policy ended up costing more than before I was on Medicare. That's ####ed up.

There is always a problem when the client is not the patient, and that is what is happening. The client is now the insurance companies. The doctors do what the insurance companies want. The way to solve our problem is to provide incentives for more General Practitioners so we don't have to go to specialists for things a GP can do.

The only reason we now need pre-existing conditions is that we can't always keep our insurance policies. I've been forced to change policies three tine since Obamacare went into effect because carriers stop offering coverage in my county. As to keeping kids on insurance until mid-20s - I don't care. They can get their own insurance or not. I am sure those who keep their kids on their policies pay a price. Where pre-existing conditions need to be changed is that many healthy people are paying the "tax" rather than getting insurance, thinking that if they get sick, then they will get insurance.If pre-existing conditions only applied to changing policies, I think we would still have that issue.

We need to change the law so that rather than insurers being able to decide they will offer insurance in one county and not an adjacent one, that they have to offer insurance state-wide, maybe even nation-wide.

I don't know how Trump will fix it - but it is broken and getting worse.

 

[mr roboto]

I wonder how many people complaining about obamacare are actually on obamacare.

I'm on it. has brought my rates for my family down to 1/3 what we were previously paying. for me as an independent contractor, it's a game-changer. but I'm open to hearing how it's making my life worse... or yours. 

Mine went up 68% in 2017. The plan I had in 2016 is no longer offered cause the insurer I used lost so much money. 

But I live in a state where a vast majority get their healthcare from employers. So the only uninsured were small businesses and those with pre-existing conditions. 

Basically me and my wife (healthy 30-somethings) and 3 healthy kids are in a 'group' with a bunch of super sick old people. Yeah!

 

[rockaction]

Mine went up 68% in 2017. 

Back in 2015, my premium went up about 50% when I was working under the umbrella of a small business. 

Now I'm on Covered California, and Obamacare has likely helped me personally, reducing my monthly payment about $250. 

That's just my experience. 

I generally stay away from Obamacare threads as I'm not an insurance guy, only a consumer. 

 

[mr roboto]

Back in 2015, my premium went up about 50% when I was working under the umbrella of a small business. 

Now I'm on Covered California, and Obamacare has likely helped me personally, reducing my monthly payment about $250. 

That's just my experience. 

I generally stay away from Obamacare threads as I'm not an insurance guy, only a consumer. 

Yeah some states it better others worse. 

MN had a fantastic state system for the uninsured. We had the lowest uninsured rate in the US. Obamacare made that program illegal. So we had our #### together and ACA broke it. 

 

[bueno]

Back in 2015, my premium went up about 50% when I was working under the umbrella of a small business. 

Now I'm on Covered California, and Obamacare has likely helped me personally, reducing my monthly payment about $250. 

That's just my experience. 

I generally stay away from Obamacare threads as I'm not an insurance guy, only a consumer. 

The consumers are the ones getting screwed though.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why are people upset that Tim wanted to have a specific discussio about Obamacare and how Trump is going to change it? It was one of his biggest campaign platforms was repeal and replace. 

If being shackled to the Trump catch all thread is just too much, I see no harm in this. Tim likes to be the table captain for discussions, you can choose to engage with him and click in here or don't. 

He laid out 5 points for you to chew on. If you have something to say seems like a good time to do so.

 

[rockaction]

Yeah some states it better others worse. 

MN had a fantastic state system for the uninsured. We had the lowest uninsured rate in the US. Obamacare made that program illegal. So we had our #### together and ACA broke it. 

Interesting. It seems like it hurt the small business I was working for but has helped me out here. 

I'm not sure what MN's system was like for the uninsured or indigent, and I am not sure what policy implications would have helped or hurt it. 

All I know is premiums went way up in CT for small business, way down in CA for independent contractors and the like.  

 

[urbanhack]

The consumers are the ones getting screwed though.

Of course they are getting screwed when our healthcare is "free market" and profit-driven by insurance companies and corporations that care more about shareholder value and profits over anything related to the well being of the consumer.

 

[Dedfin]

I think Obamacare can be improved if we just change the name to something better.  Thoughts?

 

[flapgreen]

Smh

 

[HellToupee]

Why are people upset that Tim wanted to have a specific discussio about Obamacare and how Trump is going to change it? It was one of his biggest campaign platforms was repeal and replace. 

If being shackled to the Trump catch all thread is just too much, I see no harm in this. Tim likes to be the table captain for discussions, you can choose to engage with him and click in here or don't. 

He laid out 5 points for you to chew on. If you have something to say seems like a good time to do so.

Table captain

given the the date of affairs in the ffa and DDs message I don't think it was prudent to fire up a  new thread. Especially on festivus 

 

[McGarnicle]

He just kept going back in there, even stepping over the bodies. :(  

 

[AAABatteries]

There's nothing wrong with the thread - it's a good topic for discussion- how about we stick to it.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

There's nothing wrong with the thread - it's a good topic for discussion- how about we stick to it.

you must be joking hahahahaha

 

[shader]

I wonder how many people complaining about obamacare are actually on obamacare.

I'm on it. has brought my rates for my family down to 1/3 what we were previously paying. for me as an independent contractor, it's a game-changer. but I'm open to hearing how it's making my life worse... or yours. 

As always, it depends on the person. My parents are getting great coverage next year.

I talked to a friend the other day who can't get the same coverage through Obamacare in 2017 as he did in 2016, and his premiums are doubling.  He's annoyed but still on it.

Ive been on it previously as an IC, but now I'm full time employed and don't require it. I'm glad it was there, but it was still expensive. 

As always, everyone wants to discuss the political and contentious thing, i.e. Obamacare. The REAL discussion should be why medical costs are growing at an unsustainable rate and what is going to happen over the next 5 years, as pretty soon it's going to blow up in everyone's faces.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

I think Obamacare can be improved if we just change the name to something better.  Thoughts?

Trumpcare

 

[MikeIke]

I get insurance through my employer so obamacare doesn't directly affect me,  however since the law passed my premiums have gone up more than they had before the law.  Also,  I never had to deal with a deductible then a co-insurance after the deductible was paid. 

I'm not on obamacare but it's still cost me,  personally,  thousands of dollars. 

I wish there was a way to get everyone health care without the laws being written to benefit the insurance companies. 

 

[Hilts]

There's a 571 page thread specifically talking about Obamacare on page 4. 

 

[mr roboto]

I get insurance through my employer so obamacare doesn't directly affect me,  however since the law passed my premiums have gone up more than they had before the law.  Also,  I never had to deal with a deductible then a co-insurance after the deductible was paid. 

I'm not on obamacare but it's still cost me,  personally,  thousands of dollars. 

I wish there was a way to get everyone health care without the laws being written to benefit the insurance companies. 

 It's not the insurance companies that are making out like bandits in the system.   It's healthcare providers and pharmaceutical companies.    Our medical costs for the exact same treatments and medicines are ridiculous. 

 

[AAABatteries]

 It's not the insurance companies that are making out like bandits in the system.   It's healthcare providers and pharmaceutical companies.    Our medical costs for the exact same treatments and medicines are ridiculous. 

Yep - I ha e no clue what the answers are but it's ridiculous that a 24 hour stay in the hospital could bankrupt a lot of Americans.  This was another topic I had hopes that Bernie would address.  

 

[El Floppo]

Mine went up 68% in 2017. The plan I had in 2016 is no longer offered cause the insurer I used lost so much money. 

But I live in a state where a vast majority get their healthcare from employers. So the only uninsured were small businesses and those with pre-existing conditions. 

Basically me and my wife (healthy 30-somethings) and 3 healthy kids are in a 'group' with a bunch of super sick old people. Yeah!

damn- that's a lot. and yeah- we had our first carrier go belly-up, so we changed to Oscar, who all of our doctors decided to opt out of for next year... so we've changed again (we liked Oscar). it needs fixing- and a lot of what bueno said is dead-on.

out of curiousity... are you paying anything close to what you were paying pre-obamacare?

our problem, and the reason I'm still supportive of this, is that it was at a point where it almost made more sense to just not be insured and pay out of pocket considering what we had to pay prior to going on obamacare.

 

[timschochet]

OK it's been 5 hours since I started this thread. It has not been locked; I have not been banned. I am therefore going to assume that this thread is acceptable. The mods can always remove it if they do choose but I won't give them any reason to do so.

The reason I did not simply post in the existing hundreds of pages Obamacare thread is because it's the sort of catch all thread Dodds was complaining about and because it is chalk full of personal insults. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

OK it's been 5 hours since I started this thread. It has not been locked; I have not been banned. I am therefore going to assume that this thread is acceptable. The mods can always remove it if they do choose but I won't give them any reason to do so.

The reason I did not simply post in the existing hundreds of pages Obamacare thread is because it's the sort of catch all thread Dodds was complaining about and because it is chalk full of personal insults. 

Just give it a few pages Tim. I'm sure the personal insults are coming. 

 

[bigbottom]

Will the repealing/replacing Obamacare involve getting rid of annual and lifetime limits on essential health benefits?  Because many cancer survivors would be totally screwed if that happened.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Mr and Mrs MOP saw our health care costs skyrocket in the last several years. Obamacare felt like a heavy burden on those who choose to,get up and go to work everyday. I have never been able to get past that point. Penalized for working and having a job and keeping people alive in general. 

Very disheartening

 

[bueno]

Can someone please explain to me how to not be on Obamacare? The ACA affects all insurance.

 

[bigbottom]

Mr and Mrs MOP saw our health care costs skyrocket in the last several years. Obamacare felt like a heavy burden on those who choose to,get up and go to work everyday. I have never been able to get past that point. Penalized for working and having a job and keeping people alive in general. 

Very disheartening

It's interesting. Has there been a study of premium increases year over year for employer group health plans adjusted for any adjustments in co-pays and deductibles?  Because I hear people talk about massive premium increases and others about the more modest increases than during pre-Obamacare. For me, my premiums for 2017 are going up 2% (about $5 a paycheck) with no changes to deductibles/co-pays. I do not believe my employer is eating the entirety of a giant increase.

 

[timschochet]

Can someone please explain to me how to not be on Obamacare? The ACA affects all insurance.

It does. And obviously whatever Trump decides to do will affect everyone as well. 

Bueno if you were the President what would you propose? 

 

[rockaction]

It's interesting. Has there been a study of premium increases year over year for employer group health plans adjusted for any adjustments in co-pays and deductibles?  Because I hear people talk about massive premium increases and others about the more modest increases than during pre-Obamacare. For me, my premiums for 2017 are going up 2% (about $5 a paycheck) with no changes to deductibles/co-pays. I do not believe my employer is eating the entirety of a giant increase.

I would think, after a quick search, that Forbes is the best place to look, but even that's politicized, isn't it? 

As long as we're in the interest of civility, I found that reading this article way back when was instructive. It has a drastic title, but it isn't about Obamacare; it's about our insurance/employer system as we know it. I'll go through it with you, bb, if you'd like. I need to re-read it. It's memorable. It's from the Atlantic, which is hardly a right-wing outpost. 

How American Health Care Killed My Father

 

[rockaction]

By the way, that article takes place in a pre-Obama era.  

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

It's interesting. Has there been a study of premium increases year over year for employer group health plans adjusted for any adjustments in co-pays and deductibles?  Because I hear people talk about massive premium increases and others about the more modest increases than during pre-Obamacare. For me, my premiums for 2017 are going up 2% (about $5 a paycheck) with no changes to deductibles/co-pays. I do not believe my employer is eating the entirety of a giant increase.

The Kaiser Foundation is by far the best source for this data and they publish it every year. Here's the 2016 Report

 

[bueno]

It does. And obviously whatever Trump decides to do will affect everyone as well. 

Bueno if you were the President what would you propose? 

We have to look at why healthcare costs so much. Why can I get my blood pressure medicine in Mexico (where it is made in Europe instead of the US) for the same cost as my co-pay here.

Why does my GP have to refer me to a specialist all the time for tests he can run?

Why do my doctor friends spend more time filling out paperwork than they do with patients?

I can go to a pharmacy in Mexico, talk to a doctor there, and get a prescription for medication. The doctor diagnoses without the need for extensive testing.  Why does it take a visit to my GP, then a visit to a specialist, then a blood test to get the same treatment?

Why are we no longer the client, but the insurance company is?

Why does my pregnant daughter have to go to an OB/GYN when my wife never did for all three of our kids? Why do they feel the need to run three ultrasounds?

Why can you not even buy tetanus vaccines with also having pertussis & diphtheria vaccine in it?

Why do you need annual flu shots when they have the ability to inoculate you for longer periods?

There is more than insurance out of control here. The entire medical insurance industry is a milking machine and we are the cow's udders. We need to find a way to get more general practitioners into the industry. Or to give more responsibility to PAs, maybe even RNs. The problem isn't the insurance: it is why the insurance requires so much paperwork of the doctors. We need to look at cutting paperwork, cutting excessive regulation, and protecting the medical industry from unwarranted legal claims.

 

[Phil Elliott]

So is it a tax or a mandate?

 

[shader]

We have to look at why healthcare costs so much. Why can I get my blood pressure medicine in Mexico (where it is made in Europe instead of the US) for the same cost as my co-pay here.

Why does my GP have to refer me to a specialist all the time for tests he can run?

Why do my doctor friends spend more time filling out paperwork than they do with patients?

I can go to a pharmacy in Mexico, talk to a doctor there, and get a prescription for medication. The doctor diagnoses without the need for extensive testing.  Why does it take a visit to my GP, then a visit to a specialist, then a blood test to get the same treatment?

Why are we no longer the client, but the insurance company is?

Why does my pregnant daughter have to go to an OB/GYN when my wife never did for all three of our kids? Why do they feel the need to run three ultrasounds?

Why can you not even buy tetanus vaccines with also having pertussis & diphtheria vaccine in it?

Why do you need annual flu shots when they have the ability to inoculate you for longer periods?

There is more than insurance out of control here. The entire medical insurance industry is a milking machine and we are the cow's udders. We need to find a way to get more general practitioners into the industry. Or to give more responsibility to PAs, maybe even RNs. The problem isn't the insurance: it is why the insurance requires so much paperwork of the doctors. We need to look at cutting paperwork, cutting excessive regulation, and protecting the medical industry from unwarranted legal claims.

Great post.  It's a massive scam.

 

[Gachi]

I wonder how different things would be had America opted for single payer back when Medicare was first introduced. 

 

[El Floppo]

inter-state competition, as proposed by Trump... is this feasible? 

pre ACA, I assumed this would be a better way, especially for those of us in locales where we get screwed, but I know nothing about the ins and outs of it and would be interested in hearing more.

fwiw- pre ACA, as an independent contractor, I was paying $2,200/month for my family of 4. more than 25k/year.