Tulsa, Juneteenth, Liberia, Marcus Garvey (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Says the guy who just posted that whoever disagrees with him is has no empathy. 

Like I said.....not interested in your misrepresentations and poor characterizations

 

[supermike80]

No response needed.  After taking a dip in  a couple other threads it appears you're trying new shtick....carry on.

Ouch...That hurt.   

 

[Amused to Death]

Like I said.....not interested in your misrepresentations and poor characterizations

I've become much more selective in choosing posts to respond to. I still read everyone's posts as I have no one on ignore but my urge to click "quote" and "submit relpy" have been greatly diminished. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Like I said.....not interested in your misrepresentations and poor characterizations

I figured you would keep tying your horse to that.  I mean, YOU'RE the one misrepresenting people in here but I guess you think if you gaslight someone else enough people will just believe you?

I mean - you can't make this up.  The guy who literally posted that those who don't agree with him lack empathy has the audacity to tell those same people that they are misrepresenting him.  Wow.  Good work. 

 

[supermike80]

I've become much more selective in choosing posts to respond to. I still read everyone's posts as I have no one on ignore but my urge to click "quote" and "submit relpy" have been greatly diminished. 

What makes this post drop dead ADORABLE is you actually putting that thought down and posting it.     You are so so so way more better that other posters here.  Wow.   

 

[The Commish]

I've become much more selective in choosing posts to respond to. I still read everyone's posts as I have no one on ignore but my urge to click "quote" and "submit relpy" have been greatly diminished. 

You're on the right track....this post (assuming it's this one as it's the only one I mentioned empathy at all, but given the source probably not a safe assumption now that I think about it):

And it's really bizarre to me to see such resistance to this attempt to foster empathy by talking about all these events from different perspectives.  We don't move forward in a meaningful way until that happens. 

garnered this response:

I figured you would keep tying your horse to that.  I mean, YOU'RE the one misrepresenting people in here but I guess you think if you gaslight someone else enough people will just believe you?

I mean - you can't make this up.  The guy who literally posted that those who don't agree with him lack empathy has the audacity to tell those same people that they are misrepresenting him.  Wow.  Good work. 

Someone's google translate to english app is malfunctioning.....either that or it's intentional "lost in translation" going on.   

 

[geoff8695]

I don't want to argue or engage in a pissing contest. I can totally understand wanting to distance a highly partisan, hot button, contemporary political issue far far away from an ideology that stacked up so many human corpses in the 20th century that we can't even reliably know the number. Our "rounding errors" are in the tens of millions.

Making the connection between CRT and Marxism only requires reading the first two sentences of the Communist Manifesto:

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guildmaster and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, that each time ended, either in the revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

I can assure you that those first two sentences are no aberration or dishonest sampling and that class divisions and power struggles are indeed a fundamental tenet of Marxism. You don't have to parse through the entire document or spend years studying the tragic historical record of communism to discover this is true.

Notice a similarity to CRT's fundamental tenet of racial divisions and power struggles?

 

[geoff8695]

I DO agree with the original poster on the need for an honest approach to history, and to shed light on racial injustices.

I don't believe that CRT is the appropriate vehicle to fill this need.

 

[The Commish]

nevermind

 

[BladeRunner]

It's really the only answer to those questions of deflection anymore.  It's not more complicated than that.  I need to write a macro.

which was in response to this post:

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/797787-tulsa-juneteenth-liberia-marcus-garvey/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-23442407

That's something that was missing from my above post - empathy.   So important to learn about how other's experienced the same events.  

You're on the right track....this post (assuming it's this one as it's the only one I mentioned empathy at all, but given the source probably not a safe assumption now that I think about it):

garnered this response:

Someone's google translate to english app is malfunctioning.....either that or it's intentional "lost in translation" going on.   

Yeah, the post I was referring to was the top one, not the one you're claiming.  Way to misrepresent the argument YET again! 

Better get YOUR translation machine fixed. Everyone else's is just fine. 

 

[BladeRunner]

I don't want to argue or engage in a pissing contest. I can totally understand wanting to distance a highly partisan, hot button, contemporary political issue far far away from an ideology that stacked up so many human corpses in the 20th century that we can't even reliably know the number. Our "rounding errors" are in the tens of millions.

Making the connection between CRT and Marxism only requires reading the first two sentences of the Communist Manifesto:

I can assure you that those first two sentences are no aberration or dishonest sampling and that class divisions and power struggles are indeed a fundamental tenet of Marxism. You don't have to parse through the entire document or spend years studying the tragic historical record of communism to discover this is true.

Notice a similarity to CRT's fundamental tenet of racial divisions and power struggles?

Excellent post.  Hopefully those defending CRT now understand. 

 

[The Commish]

And it's really bizarre to me to see such resistance to this attempt to foster empathy by talking about all these events from different perspectives.  We don't move forward in a meaningful way until that happens. 

That's something that was missing from my above post - empathy.   So important to learn about how other's experienced the same events.  

It's really the only answer to those questions of deflection anymore.  It's not more complicated than that.  I need to write a macro.

Sorry....I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt....referring to this post sequence above with this:

Says the guy who just posted that whoever disagrees with him is has no empathy. 

or this:

I figured you would keep tying your horse to that.  I mean, YOU'RE the one misrepresenting people in here but I guess you think if you gaslight someone else enough people will just believe you?

I mean - you can't make this up.  The guy who literally posted that those who don't agree with him lack empathy has the audacity to tell those same people that they are misrepresenting him.  Wow.  Good work. 

is worse than my first assertion.  As I said the google translate to english is broken on whatever device you are posting from....either that or you have no idea what "literally" means.  FFS, you can't even assert it was implied in those posts.  They clearly states that empathy is the only answer to all those nonsense questions like "why should I care about...." crap.

ETA:  I shouldn't say you CAN'T assert....you can do whatever you want.  Doing so in this case would be worse a take on what you think "literally" means than your take on what "socialism" means.  I didn't think that was possible.

 

[FairWarning]

Isn't the point we didn't learn about these things in history...and we should have...and going forward it should be taught?  Not sure what that has to do with moving forward or an example with your boss.

Great, teach it then. Also teach that blacks were buying and selling also.

 

[FairWarning]

Isn't the point we didn't learn about these things in history...and we should have...and going forward it should be taught?  Not sure what that has to do with moving forward or an example with your boss.

Great, teach it then. Also teach that blacks were buying and selling also.

 

[ekbeats]

When can we move forward?  Asking for the rest of us.

Never.  It’s only going to get worse and worse.  We have an entire industry (the media) and political party (the Dems) that are 100% vested in picking this scab and dividing people.  I my lifetime we’ve made unbelievable progress but race relations have only gotten worse.

 

[BladeRunner]

Sorry....I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt....referring to this post sequence above with this:

or this:

is worse than my first assertion.  As I said the google translate to english is broken on whatever device you are posting from....either that or you have no idea what "literally" means.  FFS, you can't even assert it was implied in those posts.  They clearly states that empathy is the only answer to all those nonsense questions like "why should I care about...." crap.

ETA:  I shouldn't say you CAN'T assert....you can do whatever you want.  Doing so in this case would be worse a take on what you think "literally" means than your take on what "socialism" means.  I didn't think that was possible.

It's like you just make stuff up as you go along.

So this was another long-winded way for you to obfuscate that you were the one misrepresenting people by deliberately saying they had no empathy.   Didn't work.  

You gave it your best, but fell short again. Maybe next time, kid.

 

[geoff8695]

Never.  It’s only going to get worse and worse.  We have an entire industry (the media) and political party (the Dems) that are 100% vested in picking this scab and dividing people.  I my lifetime we’ve made unbelievable progress but race relations have only gotten worse.

I don't blame you for feeling pessimistic - but I think America has made amazing progress. It's just that the noise from social media and those pushing narratives that seek to divide and pit us against one another drowns out the positives.

I'm optimistic that if we continue to attempt to live up to our ideals we can build off that positive progress, figure out how to come together in bipartisan ways, and ultimately navigate through the challenges that face us today. Americans in all of their flaws have demonstrated the ability to come together to deal with crises in the past. I thoroughly reject the notion that we can't do the same again...

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am guessing another group will probably say that it won't go away until people actually listen to what they are saying their experience still is present day.   Telling them it's all good, it's been good for 50 years,  bootstraps and such, and getting mad and defensive if race is talked about also isn't going to get this country past the issue.  

 

[geoff8695]

I am guessing another group will probably say that it won't go away until people actually listen to what they are saying their experience still is present day.   Telling them it's all good, it's been good for 50 years,  bootstraps and such, and getting mad and defensive if race is talked about also isn't going to get this country past the issue.  

Fair enough.

Betcha if we decided to seek to understand before seeking to be understood, and if we really wrestled with finding some common ground, we could do some serious good tho!

 

[Sea Duck]

Isn't the point we didn't learn about these things in history...and we should have...and going forward it should be taught?  Not sure what that has to do with moving forward or an example with your boss.

Great, teach it then. Also teach that blacks were buying and selling also.

After you typed this out, did you say "swish" in your mind?

 

[Doug B]

 Long story short - sure enough, she dropped hours with us so she would still get her state aid, and we are assuming she is then using another name to work across the street.

Didn't think this was easy to pull off in 2021. Think the other place is paying her in cash? Simply giving a false name might have worked in the past, but how does she deal with the SSN issue? Might she have a second SSN? Maybe using a relative's info?

 

[Doug B]

College history was totally different because there were a few central narratives that tied everything together.  It wasn't so much just a random assortment of stuff that happened, but it was stuff that happened in the context of slavery, or stuff that happened in the context of industrialization, or stuff that happened in the context of western expansion, or whatever.

Thoughtful post here.

IMHO, something that could even be taught to small children is that human history has featured contention over resources and contention over sovereignty/self-determination/freedom to use those resources.

Something as simple as teaching toddlers to share with others is not only a lesson in manners and in interpersonal dynamics, but also a fundamental history lesson.

Skip ahead a few years. 8-year-old Doug B in third grade learning about the Age of Exploration. Prince Henry. Vasco De Gama. Columbus. Magellan. Cortez. And so on.

We learned that Columbus first landed in the New World on the Caribbean island of San Salvador in what is today the Bahamas. So far, so good. And the next thing we learned was that "Spain set up colonies in the New World". So far as we knew, the Taino and Arawak people living in the Bahamas and on Cuba and Hispaniola welcomed Columbus' crew with open arms and summarily submitted to Spanish rule, just like that.

OK, we were in third grade. We didn't need to learn about the darkest details of the fighting in the Caribbean between the Taino, Arawak, etc. and early Spanish conquistadors. However, IMHO, it would have been valuable to have learned that the island natives fought back for their homes and for their way of life. It would have also been valuable to learn the basic lesson repeated many times in human history: that when two imbalanced cultures clash, commonly one is vanquished. Learning this lends the backdrop to later lessons about the Enlightenment and the general struggles of humankind at both the individual and nation-state levels.