Fatguy Jr. Questions Thread (1 Viewer)

[dgreen]

Overall, I guess my general attitude toward my body is something along the general lines of "it is what it is."

I think this gets at a big disconnect in LGBT discussions. The word "identity" has been bothersome to many. If we're being honest, I think much of the Evangelical opposition to LGBT identities probably comes down to it being weird/gross/etc. But, the more well-thought-out Evangelical arguments revolve around identity and a disagreement about finding one's identity in anything other than being made in the image of God. Of course, many people don't believe in that stuff, but it still remains that that argument is out there and I think can make for an interesting discussion about what it means to identify as/with something and how that identity may or may not win out as the primary identity when compared to other ways we identify. (ETA: Because the perception, at least, is that LGBT identities is the primary way an LGBT person identifies themselves; that it's the most important identity. That obviously might be a false assumption.)

 

[seltzercans]

I also hope you get to live a truly free, happy life, one that doesn't have to be lived in stealth, though I can see why it might have to be

Starting with this, being stealth is to me a truly free and happy life. Presenting as male is being openly myself. Many cis people have hormone disorders and take medication to present closer to how they identify - I consider myself to be doing the same thing. My birth sex is just a piece of medical history I find unnecessary to disclose to most people. 

I don't think I could answer your questions because they're empirical and not deducted from mathematical or other axioms. They must be experienced to be considered fully. I hope that's not a cop-out; it's just a problem I see with the exercise you've presented. The question always comes down to "Are you sure that's how you'd feel?" and the answer is always "no, I'm not sure how I would feel." That's not to forego attempts at empathy, but it realizes the limitations within nature of certain empirical ways of being and knowing that depend on the physical and sensory self. 

Yeah, the questions aren't something you can check your answers on. People frequently misjudge how they'd behave in certain situations, I am not trying to use them to determine how people would actually act, just how they think they'd act. "I'm not sure" / "It's impossible to say" are good answers.

My question to you would be how did you first know you were trans and what was your childhood and pubescence like due to it?

Part of the reason for the hypothetical is that I think it offers some insight into my experience. For me, hitting puberty was somewhat like 'waking up as a woman'. When I was a kid I was aware I was a girl, I don't think I was particularly feminine or masculine but you can ask my dad, he probably remembers it better than I did. But when you're a kid, gender isn't a big deal, I think most kids views of gender are very shallow - long hair means girl, short hair means boy etc. I knew from a very young age (8 or 9?) that I was only attracted to women, but never strongly identified with being a lesbian. When I was 10-15, I went to sleep away camps over the summer. These experiences were miserable for various reasons, but one was definitely that I had trouble properly socializing in all-female friend groups. This was around the age that people started taking gender seriously and started dating. I tried to lean in for a while and learn how to do femininity properly, but it was always something that felt very forced and artificial. I could enjoy doing makeup or wearing women's clothes, but it was essentially a drag performance, and when people took it seriously I would be confused or upset. I started to bind my chest and had some of my close friends call me by my last name towards the end of my freshman year. I was hoping it was something I could ride out though, I didn't want to have to transition - it is kind of a lot of work, and I didn't understand or relate to any of the publicly trans people I'd seen. It took almost another year for me to actually acknowledge to myself that I was trans. What forced me to accept it was mostly thinking about my adult life. I couldn't picture a genuine adult life where I was presenting as female, and I realized the sooner I could get this over with the sooner I could move on with things. It still took me a while (another year maybe?) to come out to my parents, my initial plan was to wait until I was 18 and just transition on my own without telling anyone, but I realized I wanted to have a normal male college experience, and I'd proved to myself by that point that this wasn't something that was going away. 

 

[AAABatteries]

1)    If you tomorrow woke up as a biological woman, would you make an attempt to present as male, and use your old name and pronouns, or would you change your name and pronouns and accept your new life?

2)    Would you be a lesbian? Do you think dating women as a woman would be different from dating women as a man?

3)    Would you continue having primarily male friends? How would you feel about men you meet being sexually attracted to you? Do you think that would get in the way of your friendship?

4)    Would you continue to dress the way you did previously, or would you consider wearing feminine clothes, or learning how to do makeup?

5)    To those of you with kids, would you be as willing to be a mother as you would be a father? Would you be willing to get pregnant, give birth, or breastfeed?

1. My gut reaction to just about any question that involves what happens in my life is to discuss it with my wife.  We have a life partnership and decisions I make impact her and vice versa.  I would want to see what she thought about it and how it would impact our relationship

2. I jokingly said yesterday that I would be - but that was just me making the tired old joke.  If in this hypothetical I'm supposed to be single and consider things strictly on my own then I'd probably say "accept my new life" to question #1 and then yes, I would be a lesbian.  Hard for me to answer the part about it being different as I don't have anything to compare it to.  My assumption would be yes, it would be different but I don't really know the dynamics of many lesbian relationships

3. I have an equal split of men and women friends but definitely my closest friends are male.  This question really got me thinking about the scenario more in-depth.  Currently, I have an unwritten rule that I don't really spend time 1-on-1 with females doing activities.  Don't go to lunches or the movies or anything like that - one, just to avoid the appearance and two, just to not put myself in to situations where I could be unfaithful.  I think this is somewhat common and in your scenario I'm not sure how I would feel about that but more importantly I do know that most of my married male friends feel similarly.  Which would lead me to believe that my days of hanging out drinking beer or going camping or backpacking with my buddies would be over.  That would be a horrible side effect that I think would happen.

4. I'm very utilitarian in my dress now and would assume I would be the same as a female.  I doubt I would wear dresses or put on makeup.

5. As mentioned, I have four kids.  I don't want any more whether I woke up tomorrow as a women or I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the floor.  If this is another situation where I'm supposed to imagine waking up as a younger, unattached female then I would maybe consider doing those things or since I would be a lesbian I would see how my SO feels about doing those.  Kind of hard to say really.

 

[AAABatteries]

I think this gets at a big disconnect in LGBT discussions. The word "identity" has been bothersome to many. If we're being honest, I think much of the Evangelical opposition to LGBT identities probably comes down to it being weird/gross/etc. But, the more well-thought-out Evangelical arguments revolve around identity and a disagreement about finding one's identity in anything other than being made in the image of God. Of course, many people don't believe in that stuff, but it still remains that that argument is out there and I think can make for an interesting discussion about what it means to identify as/with something and how that identity may or may not win out as the primary identity when compared to other ways we identify. (ETA: Because the perception, at least, is that LGBT identities is the primary way an LGBT person identifies themselves; that it's the most important identity. That obviously might be a false assumption.)

I think there is also the idea of "god doesn't make mistakes" and for many Evangelicals I imagine they see transgenderism as somebody saying god made a mistake with them and that doesn't sit well.

 

[The Commish]

I have no clue how to answer those questions.  I can't even wrap my head around them.  The only one that is easy for me to answer is:

Would you be willing to get pregnant, give birth, or breastfeed?

And this is a big fat NO...absolutely NOT.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Short, fat, and hairy?  We're getting dangerously close to Ron Jeremy territory here.

I was more curious why moops was putting so much effort into picturing what you look like.   

 

[dgreen]

I think there is also the idea of "god doesn't make mistakes" and for many Evangelicals I imagine they see transgenderism as somebody saying god made a mistake with them and that doesn't sit well.

Oh, yes, I've heard that one too.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

When I was a kid I was aware I was a girl, I don't think I was particularly feminine or masculine but you can ask my dad, he probably remembers it better than I did. 

Yeah that sounds about right.  I guess you liked some girl stuff but in hindsight I don't know whether we had to go meet Cinderella at Disney World because you were actually into CInderella or because you were playing a role that you thought you were supposed to play.  I wouldn't have described you as a tomboy but you were always into bugs and getting dirty exploring nature which seem more like stereotypical boy activities.  

 

[Zow]

Short, fat, and hairy?  We're getting dangerously close to Ron Jeremy territory here.

I mean, well, let's be real here... would it really be all that bad to be Ron Jeremy??

 

[Possum]

welcome to the forum Peter - as others have mentioned already, your dad is a good egg even if he does lie about being fat.

I don't have any questions at the moment, just wanted to say thanks for coming on and offering your perspective, and I'm glad to hear you're happy and doing well.

 

[Zow]

I think this gets at a big disconnect in LGBT discussions. The word "identity" has been bothersome to many. If we're being honest, I think much of the Evangelical opposition to LGBT identities probably comes down to it being weird/gross/etc. But, the more well-thought-out Evangelical arguments revolve around identity and a disagreement about finding one's identity in anything other than being made in the image of God. Of course, many people don't believe in that stuff, but it still remains that that argument is out there and I think can make for an interesting discussion about what it means to identify as/with something and how that identity may or may not win out as the primary identity when compared to other ways we identify. (ETA: Because the perception, at least, is that LGBT identities is the primary way an LGBT person identifies themselves; that it's the most important identity. That obviously might be a false assumption.)

While it's been a couple of decades and I know there's been a more progressive pope in the interim so I'm unsure whether the dogma has changed since then, but the bold is pretty consistent with what was explained to me by the catholic priests and theologians that I studied with (some of which were homosexual but didn't act on it) as to why being trans is arguably sinful.*

*I don't agree with the logic nor do I continue to follow the catholic faith - if unclear. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I mean, well, let's be real here... would it really be all that bad to be Ron Jeremy??

Currently?  I'm gonna go with yes.*

*I'd go with yes at any point, FTR.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I have no idea how someone could possibly look at the world and conclude “God doesn’t make mistakes.”  
 

Also, when horrible things happen in the world and everyone is like “F you God!”, it’s those same religious people who say stuff like “God has a mysterious plan.”  So why can’t putting men in women’s bodies also be part of God’s mysterious plan?  

 

[Gilroy34]

I have no idea how someone could possibly look at the world and conclude “God doesn’t make mistakes.”  
 

Also, when horrible things happen in the world and everyone is like “F you God!”, it’s those same religious people who say stuff like “God has a mysterious plan.”  So why can’t putting men in women’s bodies also be part of God’s mysterious plan?  

I believe the definition of a man is he has a penis and the definition of a woman is she has a vagina.  That said I am happy to hear your child is happy as that is what matters most.

 

[moleculo]

I believe the definition of a man is he has a penis and the definition of a woman is she has a vagina.  That said I am happy to hear your child is happy as that is what matters most.

Would it shock you to know that isn't universally accepted by the scientific community, and genitals don't always follow genetics?

 

[Rich Conway]

I guess equivalent to however you are now. 7/10 guy would become 7/10 girl etc. 

I was told there'd be no math offdee in this thread (your dad will get the joke if you don't).

In all seriousness, good thread, and I'll weigh in when I have more time.

 

[AAABatteries]

I have no idea how someone could possibly look at the world and conclude “God doesn’t make mistakes.”  
 

Also, when horrible things happen in the world and everyone is like “F you God!”, it’s those same religious people who say stuff like “God has a mysterious plan.”  So why can’t putting men in women’s bodies also be part of God’s mysterious plan?  

To answer the first part - the idea is fairly simple - God is perfect/infallible so it's not possible for him to make mistakes.  Everything is part of a greater plan - which you touch on in the second part.  I think the answer you would receive there is, while God is perfect, we are not.  That obviously doesn't address your question about it being part of his plan - that is what makes it so great, you can make anything be part or not part of the plan.

 

[seltzercans]

1.  How early did you have thoughts that you were trans, when did you 100% "know", and what were the thoughts and feelings that you had as you were growing up and looking at yourself? 

Answered most of this here. One thing I did leave out that you might find interesting is that I do remember thinking I was intersex at a very young age, maybe elementary school. I had zero grounds for this belief, and it is not something I ever felt the need to investigate - I just had some conviction that I had atypical internal anatomy and would be unable to get pregnant as a result of this. To this day I am not sure why I thought that / what it meant, if it was some early trans feeling or just a strange childhood delusion. 

2.  I am not sure why, but when your pops has talked about you, one of the more interesting things to me for whatever reason is your lack of involvement in the trans community.   I was wondering - was that and does it remain a conscious choice?   Was it a function of not having a network of that nature where you grew up, did you not like people in the local group, didn't want the additional attention? 

I would say it is a conscious choice. There are a lot of reasons why. For one, I don't think I have more in common with the average trans person than I do the average cis person. The communities I seek out are for things like math or robotics which are much better indicators of the kind of person I am than the fact that I'm trans - I like the people there better too. In all honesty, I have never attended a real life 'trans event', so this is based on online communities which aren't the best indicators. The sort of exception to the rule is that my closest friend happens to be trans. We have a lot in common, but when it comes to trans stuff we are extremely different. They're nonbinary, something which is already hard for me to understand. I can't imagine having to correct people on my pronouns for the rest of my life, or wanting to be visibly trans forever. They have much more of a sense of 'trans pride' than I do, and have a lot more LGBT friends. In a way they're my window into that community, and though they enjoy it it doesn't appeal to me. I'm sure there are a lot of trans people like me who consider it a more personal thing, we just aren't aware of them. 

 

[Gilroy34]

Would it shock you to know that isn't universally accepted by the scientific community, and genitals don't always follow genetics?

No, nothing seems to universal.  Heck, we have people thinking the earth is flat.  But science is based on facts.

 

[seltzercans]

But, the more well-thought-out Evangelical arguments revolve around identity and a disagreement about finding one's identity in anything other than being made in the image of God.

I think there is also the idea of "god doesn't make mistakes" and for many Evangelicals I imagine they see transgenderism as somebody saying god made a mistake with them and that doesn't sit well.

So why can’t putting men in women’s bodies also be part of God’s mysterious plan?  

I never personally had to reconcile any of this with religion, but I do think some of the conversations around it are interesting. One thing I found really interesting was reading into Joan of Arc's takes on gender. I don't like when people project transgenderism on to historical figures, they clearly didn't have a direct equivalent to modern transgenderism. But a significant part of why Joan of Arc was put on trial was due to her dressing like a man. She was even offered a lifetime prison sentence rather than the death penalty if she agreed to dress like a woman, which she accepted, but she quickly reverted to male clothing and was subsequently burned at the stake. She was inconsistent on whether her choice of dress was a personal decision, or something God required of her, but regardless it is something she was willing to lose her life over. She's a saint now, or something, so the church seems to acknowledge God might be okay with a woman cross-dressing or even assuming a male identity. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Stupid kid has been here two days and is already a better poster than I am.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I believe the definition of a man is he has a penis and the definition of a woman is she has a vagina.  That said I am happy to hear your child is happy as that is what matters most.

That seems like a particularly unhelpful definition for use in real life. Unless you insist on seeing everyone’s genitals before using a pronoun. 
 

 

[Zow]

I have no idea how someone could possibly look at the world and conclude “God doesn’t make mistakes.”  
 

Also, when horrible things happen in the world and everyone is like “F you God!”, it’s those same religious people who say stuff like “God has a mysterious plan.”  So why can’t putting men in women’s bodies also be part of God’s mysterious plan?  

Get out of here with your reason and logic...

 

[GordonGekko]

1)    If you tomorrow woke up as a biological woman, would you make an attempt to present as male, and use your old name and pronouns, or would you change your name and pronouns and accept your new life?

VIDEO: Jordan Peterson opens up on Transgenderism May 13, 2022

Jordan Peterson finally opens up about transgenderism and explains how males and females are different yet the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ktMoNWYBU

********

Define "woman"

There are many variations and differences now in the term "woman" in our current culture and society. Many of which, even the slightest deviation from a very specific type of narrative, will get you "cancelled", some even get death threats, and some people will watch their lives and careers go up in flames.

Are you asking if someone here, who was born a biological "male" and has lived his entire life as said biological male, suddenly woke up the next day and became a biological "female"?

Or are you asking something else? To you, what is a "biological woman"?

Is the situation presented by choice? Or was it imposed on the person in question?

Jordan Peterson brings up some interesting points about feminine men and masculine women, by personality type, their links to "creativity" and how that creates a push/pull with those who lean towards "gender fluidity"  Of course because Peterson dared to discuss this in public and he has a large platform, he received countless death threats and there were multiple structured and open attempts to end his career and end his ability to speak to the masses.

Your questions are incomplete at best.

At worst, they operate as a natural threat point. I say "natural threat point" because I want to distinguish from the idea that you are directly threatening people here. Not threatening their personal viewpoint and ideology, but the threat to their voice. You are not directly threatening anyone here. But the reality is once someone establishes them as transgender or wherever else on the LGBT spectrum in the open, they are now empowered to silence anyone they choose. If you chose to hit the Report Button on anyone and claim you were being persecuted for being transgender, you might be able to get someone banned. Footballguys is a business and a brand. It doesn't want to be associated with anything even within 10 million miles of anything seen as anti-transgender.

Many won't want to answer the hypothetical scenarios of transgenders because that threat point is natural and always looming. I don't know how hard it is to be transgender. That must be difficult. It must have it's struggles. And for those at a young age, that problem compounds. That's empathy. People may or may not like my personal politics, but that's empathy. However transgenders don't know what it's like to not be on the LGBT spectrum and face that daily consistent threat point. I'm retired, many people here are not. Many people here are one remark, even unintentional and even without malice, from being fired or being gutted out of their career path.

Which leads to the next issue no one wants to talk about, which is why should vast power be given when that power is not earned? Why should you or anyone else have the right to threaten someone's career and livelihood, if you wanted to do that, based solely on your identity?

The world I want to live in includes people who disagree with me. The world I want to live in tolerates people who are different. But the world I want to live in also does not agree with such a draconian punitive methodology for those who disagree.

You are asking an incomplete question with leverage you might not realize you have, but either way, it's with power that you didn't earn.

I actually expect to be personally attacked for simply saying this plain. Not by you, but certainly by others. Where is the empathy for the non LGBT by the LGBT? Why can't we ask that question? Why isn't that question just as important?

To you, what is a "biological woman"?

Is the situation presented by choice? Or was it imposed on the person in question?

 

[seltzercans]

4. I'm very utilitarian in my dress now and would assume I would be the same as a female.  I doubt I would wear dresses or put on makeup.

Not disagreeing, just pointing out (to you and other people who said similar things) that being attractive as a woman has comparatively more practical benefit than being attractive as a man. In a lot of circumstances makeup is a basic presentability requirement in the way shaving (or having properly maintained facial hair) is. I don't think it's a good thing that women are judged more based on their physical appearance, but I do think it's a reality. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Not disagreeing, just pointing out (to you and other people who said similar things) that being attractive as a woman has comparatively more practical benefit than being attractive as a man. In a lot of circumstances makeup is a basic presentability requirement in the way shaving (or having properly maintained facial hair) is. I don't think it's a good thing that women are judged more based on their physical appearance, but I do think it's a reality. 

I don’t disagree with you but my don’t give a #### meter is very high.  I don’t shave for weeks at a time even when it looks a little ragged.  Maybe if I was single or looking to acquire a new SO I would feel differently - however, being close to 50 I don’t think my mind would change.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Not disagreeing, just pointing out (to you and other people who said similar things) that being attractive as a woman has comparatively more practical benefit than being attractive as a man. In a lot of circumstances makeup is a basic presentability requirement in the way shaving (or having properly maintained facial hair) is. I don't think it's a good thing that women are judged more based on their physical appearance, but I do think it's a reality. 

I know this seems true when you're 20, but trust me, it is absolutely not true when you get a little older.  We all probably agree that beauty standards are least partially socially constructed, etc., but women generally do not age anywhere near as gracefully as men, and good-looking men absolutely do get hired and promoted faster than homely men.  In my experience, good-looking men can ride their good looks for a lot longer than women can.  

That doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand, but it's a life lesson that 20-year-old me did not understand.

 

[seltzercans]

however, being close to 50 I don’t think my mind would change.  

I know this seems true when you're 20, but trust me, it is absolutely not true when you get a little older. 

Sorry, forgot that you guys are old. Agree things even out with age. 

 

[Joe Schmo]

Sorry, forgot that you guys are old. Agree things even out with age. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I just wanted to post how much I love your dad.   All my best to both of you. 

 

[seltzercans]

VIDEO: Jordan Peterson opens up on Transgenderism May 13, 2022

Jordan Peterson finally opens up about transgenderism and explains how males and females are different yet the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ktMoNWYBU

Define "woman"

There are many variations and differences now in the term "woman" in our current culture and society. Many of which, even the slightest deviation from a very specific type of narrative, will get you "cancelled", some even get death threats, and some people will watch their lives and careers go up in flames.

Are you asking if someone here, who was born a biological "male" and has lived his entire life as said biological male, suddenly woke up the next day and became a biological "female"?

Or are you asking something else? To you, what is a "biological woman"?

Is the situation presented by choice? Or was it imposed on the person in question?

Jordan Peterson brings up some interesting points about feminine men and masculine women, by personality type, their links to "creativity" and how that creates a push/pull with those who lean towards "gender fluidity"  Of course because Peterson dared to discuss this in public and he has a large platform, he received countless death threats and there were multiple structured and open attempts to end his career and end his ability to speak to the masses.

Your questions are incomplete at best.

At worst, they operate as a natural threat point. I say "natural threat point" because I want to distinguish from the idea that you are directly threatening people here. Not threatening their personal viewpoint and ideology, but the threat to their voice. You are not directly threatening anyone here. But the reality is once someone establishes them as transgender or wherever else on the LGBT spectrum in the open, they are now empowered to silence anyone they choose. If you chose to hit the Report Button on anyone and claim you were being persecuted for being transgender, you might be able to get someone banned. Footballguys is a business and a brand. It doesn't want to be associated with anything even within 10 million miles of anything seen as anti-transgender.

Many won't want to answer the hypothetical scenarios of transgenders because that threat point is natural and always looming. I don't know how hard it is to be transgender. That must be difficult. It must have it's struggles. And for those at a young age, that problem compounds. That's empathy. People may or may not like my personal politics, but that's empathy. However transgenders don't know what it's like to not be on the LGBT spectrum and face that daily consistent threat point. I'm retired, many people here are not. Many people here are one remark, even unintentional and even without malice, from being fired or being gutted out of their career path.

Which leads to the next issue no one wants to talk about, which is why should vast power be given when that power is not earned? Why should you or anyone else have the right to threaten someone's career and livelihood, if you wanted to do that, based solely on your identity?

The world I want to live in includes people who disagree with me. The world I want to live in tolerates people who are different. But the world I want to live in also does not agree with such a draconian punitive methodology for those who disagree.

You are asking an incomplete question with leverage you might not realize you have, but either way, it's with power that you didn't earn.

I actually expect to be personally attacked for simply saying this plain. Not by you, but certainly by others. Where is the empathy for the non LGBT by the LGBT? Why can't we ask that question? Why isn't that question just as important?

To you, what is a "biological woman"?

Is the situation presented by choice? Or was it imposed on the person in question?

I'm familiar with a lot of Jordan Peterson's gender views, he borrows a lot from Nietzsche and Paglia with the Apollonian and Diyonisian typology which are interesting concepts though his usage of them is much less coherent than his predecessors. I don't think he deserves death threats, or to be 'deplatformed', though I don't think he is entirely a good faith actor. He is also someone who paints himself as more knowledgeable than he is - I was never a fan, but after I watched his debate with Zizek in 2019 it seemed pretty obvious to me that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. 

I am someone who is not publicly transgender. I am also someone who gets annoyed by various 'trans bull####'. I don't like having to share my pronouns during class introductions, and some things such as 'over-inclusivity' of language when discussing pregnancy and abortion I think can be outright harmful. I frequently refrain from publicly sharing my thoughts about these things for fear of being interpreted as bigoted. 

I am empathetic towards those frustrated or confused by mainstream transgender ideology. I might even consider myself among those people. I was pretty clear that I didn't start this thread to cancel people as soon as they said something I disagree with. I'm disturbed when questions about touchy subjects are immediately taken as evidence that someone has harmful ulterior motives. That being said, a lot of people do have harmful ulterior motives, and it can be hard to tell if someone is acting genuinely or concern-trolling. 

About my questions, if you find them threatening or incomplete don't answer them. If you genuinely wanted clarification, the scenario I am imagining is that somehow your Y chromosome was changed into an X chromosome, rest of your genetics remain the same. You retain all memories but whatever physical differences that would have caused now occur. This transformation and its effects would be rendered instantly, and this situation was imposed on the person in question without their choice. This is just how I was imagining it - if you have a more interesting answer that would require interpreting the question differently, go ahead. 

 

[The Commish]

 

 

[AAABatteries]

Sorry, forgot that you guys are old. Agree things even out with age. 

You young punk! We have threads about gout, prostate issues and getting up several times a night to pee.  We ARE old.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sorry, forgot that you guys are old. Agree things even out with age. 

And you were off to such a promising start here.

 

[Zow]

I know this seems true when you're 20, but trust me, it is absolutely not true when you get a little older.  We all probably agree that beauty standards are least partially socially constructed, etc., but women generally do not age anywhere near as gracefully as men, and good-looking men absolutely do get hired and promoted faster than homely men.  In my experience, good-looking men can ride their good looks for a lot longer than women can.  

That doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand, but it's a life lesson that 20-year-old me did not understand.

I'd agree with this, too. 

 

[cockroach]

 

Yup.  Fun thread.  Fatguy has raised an exceptional young man.   

Props to both you guys.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Welcome, Peter. I'm a fan of your dad and I'm glad you're here. Welcome.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Stupid kid has been here two days and is already a better poster than I am.

One out of three?

 

[The Commish]

Yup.  Fun thread.  Fatguy has raised an exceptional young man.   

Props to both you guys.  

It's always interesting to watch behaviors change when the conversation shifts from theoretical to real life example.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It's always interesting to watch behaviors change when the conversation shifts from theoretical to real life example.  

An alternate way of looking at it is that people like me, who have problems with modern gender ideology but don't have any particular problem with trans people themselves, are telling the truth.  

In fairness, a few folks were jerks in the other thread, but they seem to be sitting this one out.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I mean, well, let's be real here... would it really be all that bad to be Ron Jeremy??

Ounce for ounce, right now I would rather be you. 

 

[the moops]

Ounce for ounce, right now I would rather be you. 

Probably the nicest thing ever said about woz on this forum

 

[Mister CIA]

Read the thread title and thought, wait, is this what I think it is?

Not disappointed.

 

[FBG26]

You young punk! We have threads about gout, prostate issues and getting up several times a night to pee.  We ARE old.  

Speak for yourself. Some of us are still in our 30s. 

 

[FBG26]

The combination of fatguy's original thread and this follow-up thread is truly enlightening. Thanks everybody for the respectful and engaging conversation. Thanks fatguy and Peter for your openness to discuss these things. 

 

[plinko]

hey Peter!  I’m Judd, we’ve met. Love the thread, great idea.  You’ve grown into a mature and mindful young man, and I’d expect no less given your ma and pa.

Sorry all these cats are so old here.  Frankly, it’s embarrassing for everyone. 

 

[lardonastick]

 

[The Commish]

An alternate way of looking at it is that people like me, who have problems with modern gender ideology but don't have any particular problem with trans people themselves, are telling the truth.  

In fairness, a few folks were jerks in the other thread, but they seem to be sitting this one out.

Honest brokers are honest brokers and I've always considered you one.  I'm fairly confident if you and I sat down together IRL I'd get what I see on these boards and I can assure you you'd get what you see on these boards from me.  In all these discussions there is the subject and those who focus on that and there are those who don't focus on the subject and go personal immediately.  

 

[plinko]

I thought some about what exactly I wanted to say, and decided I’d like to ask some questions. These are directed towards straight men, not sure of the exact demographics of thread participants but seemed like a safe bet.

1)    If you tomorrow woke up as a biological woman, would you make an attempt to present as male, and use your old name and pronouns, or would you change your name and pronouns and accept your new life?

2)    Would you be a lesbian? Do you think dating women as a woman would be different from dating women as a man?

3)    Would you continue having primarily male friends? How would you feel about men you meet being sexually attracted to you? Do you think that would get in the way of your friendship?

4)    Would you continue to dress the way you did previously, or would you consider wearing feminine clothes, or learning how to do makeup?

I have no useful response to these questions but it reminds me of the 1991 movie "Switch" with Ellen Barkin.. back when body-switch movies were all the rage..

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I don't understand how I could possibly wake up as a biological woman.

I'd go with alarm clock or natural sunlight to start with. Surprise sex is probably better after a little adjustment.