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UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AhrnCityPahnder
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
'Watch out for the guillotine!'
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
o/u on cody's next fight ending by guillotine / neck crank? amazing.
modogg
Footballguy
Definitely don't want to beat this to death, but I am sticking by that being the worst i have seen in a long time. Mostly because I can see no way that they could give Garcia 2 rounds. I would like to check all the scoring across the internet because i can not see anybody giving Garcia 2 rounds. The only thing i can think happened is that one of the goofballs confused Nam and Garcia
Samuel L Bronkowitz
Footballguy
I'll admit I'm a relative noob with MMA. What are the odds this kid does anything? He reminds me of a knuckleballer. It seems to me like more seasoned fighters should be able to keep themselves out of that position or even counter and he won't be able to continue getting that type of win as he moves up the ranks.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
He's a one-trick pony and will get exposed by anyone with good standup and mediocre takedown defense. I am however, a big fan of this one-trick pony.
Gadabout
Footballguy
Try and find his fight with Nam Phan. He's a likable guy and all, but his stand up resembles that of a fat black chick's.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
really hard to tell at this point, imo. he's steamrolled the lower level guys. Based on how good Nam Phan looked tonight vs Garcia, a loss to him isn't terrible for a young guy like Cody. He's many fights and several years away from being a contender, but he's only 22 and so far so good but for sure he's going to have to sharpen his standup skill for when he runs into a guy who won't be taken down or with good sweeps / sub def.
modogg
Footballguy
that's what makes him exciting, and MMA as well. what you wrote is correct, but he has defied thew logic enough to think that there is more to it. The thing is his guillotine isn't a simple move like a shot in basketball or a pass in football. There is a chess match in setting the move up, and there is something in his technique that makes it nastier then what other fighters apply. I can't imagine too many things he could be doing different with his technique, but it is much more effective then other guillotine chokes seen
Samuel L Bronkowitz
Footballguy
Thanks. That's why I likened him to a knuckleballer. And I did see the fight vs Nam Phan and ultimately why I asked. He's an easy guy to root for but I imagine he'll be a journeyman/curtain jerker
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Not watching Strikeforce tonight, but all that's left are the 3 good fights on that card.
Samuel L Bronkowitz
Footballguy
I didn't hear if he was still training in Alaska. Any chance he gets picked up by another team?
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Haven't heard anything, but I'd be very surprised if he was still training in Alaska after the TUF show.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
edit: I may need to see this event. Daley KOs Smith in brutal fashion in round 1. these 2 fights didnt even last 3 mins combined.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();eta spoiler tags for Lawler / Lindland results in case people are DVRing
edited again for Smith/Daley result
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();eta spoiler tags for Lawler / Lindland results in case people are DVRing
edited again for Smith/Daley result
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modogg
Footballguy
planning on a later night, will be watching these fights after the TUF finale.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Has Bonner ever hit anyone with that spinning back kick?
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Just need Brookins to finish off the parlay 
Possum
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
I hope it sparks a tirade about the scoring and judging. here is the fight metric report:http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/12/garcia...eport.html#moreGreat reaction from Nam. Extremely likable guy. Still, absurd decision, just terrible.
modogg
Footballguy
sheerterror
Footballguy
Missed SF tonight so I just went back to watch it. Some very exciting finishes. They need to get rid of Mauro Renalo - that guy is HORRENDOUS. He sounds like a little kid with the way he hypes things up and then wets himself when fights finish. His babbling tirade right at the end of the Henderson fight was flat out embarassing.
Just read your post Mo - completely.
Just read your post Mo - completely.
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Fun night of fights....
- Someone please tell Brookins to tuck his chin. He and Johnson need a ton of improvement to be relevant.
- Garcia's style of throwing wild and maybe hitting it apparently loved by judges.
- Phan needs to incorporate knees and dirty boxing. He dominated but left a lot of strikes in the cage.
- Please stop putting Bonnar on the televised card.
- Beating Babalu is pretty easy - just hit him real hard in the face.
- Henderson needs to stay at 205.
- Standing up a fighter that has another's back is atrocious. How about stopping the fight when the bottom guy turtles up for 5 minutes?
- Why Lindland thought trading would work is beyond me. No more fights for this guy, TIA.
- It was nice of Lawler to hold off, tell the ref it was over, and neatly place Lindland's feet on the mat.
- Daley - he's good at hitting people. It's too bad he lost his cool against Koscheck, but I think he'll eventually be back in UFC.
- Bigfoot - very much not impressed and never have been.
- Maia might be my favorite fighter, and I'm not sure why. He's pretty good at the grappling.
- People must look at McKenzie and just get stupid. Only reason possible for putting your head near his body.
- Strikeforce outclassed UFC tonight, and it wasn't even close.
- That said, it's bogus that Strikeforce ended 45 minutes early and zero prelim bouts were aired. Thanks Showtime.
- Someone please tell Brookins to tuck his chin. He and Johnson need a ton of improvement to be relevant.
- Garcia's style of throwing wild and maybe hitting it apparently loved by judges.
- Phan needs to incorporate knees and dirty boxing. He dominated but left a lot of strikes in the cage.
- Please stop putting Bonnar on the televised card.
- Beating Babalu is pretty easy - just hit him real hard in the face.
- Henderson needs to stay at 205.
- Standing up a fighter that has another's back is atrocious. How about stopping the fight when the bottom guy turtles up for 5 minutes?
- Why Lindland thought trading would work is beyond me. No more fights for this guy, TIA.
- It was nice of Lawler to hold off, tell the ref it was over, and neatly place Lindland's feet on the mat.
- Daley - he's good at hitting people. It's too bad he lost his cool against Koscheck, but I think he'll eventually be back in UFC.
- Bigfoot - very much not impressed and never have been.
- Maia might be my favorite fighter, and I'm not sure why. He's pretty good at the grappling.
- People must look at McKenzie and just get stupid. Only reason possible for putting your head near his body.
- Strikeforce outclassed UFC tonight, and it wasn't even close.
- That said, it's bogus that Strikeforce ended 45 minutes early and zero prelim bouts were aired. Thanks Showtime.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
I don't know for certain if this was the case for this SF card, but SF often puts locals in the prelims to help sell more tickets, so the fight quality in some of them is so awful that I understand them not putting it on TV.
D'OHtis
Footballguy
Watching the fights now. As most everyone was, surprised Garcia won. Thought Nam won the 1st and 2nd (latter decisively, former I couldn't see how you'd give to Garcia). Gave Garcia the 3rd.
McKenzie is ridiculous with that choke. It's the only thing you have to look for -- GET YOUR NECK OUT OF THERE!!!
McKenzie is ridiculous with that choke. It's the only thing you have to look for -- GET YOUR NECK OUT OF THERE!!!
Bobcat10
Footballguy
That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
snorlax
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
This was definitely the case in St. Louis. I only watched two prelim fights, but I don't think you missed much. In one of them a guy was getting dominated, and then his opponent brushed his head with a kick immediately after he went to the ground. They stopped the fight, and everyone booed because we thought it was a DQ, but I guess it went to the cards for an accidental foul in the third period. Anyway, I'm not sure that they were even recording the action in those fights. I was kind of expecting a break for some TV prelim airings after some of the quick knockouts, but I definitely appreciated the fact that they basically just moved on to the next fight as long as I wasn't watching the TV broadcast.Voice Of Reason said:
snorlax
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
I disagree that the 1st and 3rd were close, but if they were close, enough that you could see it going either way, your score card should have those rounds as a 10-10. The scorecard should reflect the fight. A close round 1, dominant round 2, and a close round 3 should probably be a 30-29 or, at worst a 28-28 where you gave Garcia the 1st and 3rd, but Nam a 10-8 for the second.The lack of 10-10 and reluctance to score 10-8 rounds exacerbate bad judging.I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
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modogg
Footballguy
I disagree that the 1st and 3rd were close, but if they were close, enough that you could see it going either way, your score card should have those rounds as a 10-10. The scorecard should reflect the fight. A close round 1, dominant round 2, and a close round 3 should probably be a 30-29 or, at worst a 28-28 where you gave Garcia the 1st and 3rd, but Nam a 10-8 for the second.The lack of 10-10 and reluctance to score 10-8 rounds exacerbate bad judging.I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
I know the California Athletic commission is a bit of a joke, but i like them trying some scoring changes and implementing it with the amateur bouts to see how it works. No doubt they need to do something to try and make it better, and you figure with the 40+ athletic commissions out there, you would think someone would say "Hey, let's actually do something to justify all this money we make and try to make something a little better"
modogg
Footballguy
some pretty funny postings out there about different stuff last night. this one shows a shot of Greg Jackson's face after Garcia was announced the winner:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go...7595&page=2
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go...7595&page=2
Bobcat10
Footballguy
No, I'm with you. Like I said, only the 2nd was a lock round. But thinking back, Garcia in round 1 was a more solid 10-9 than I mentioned above (I said he won it, but I think round 3 was closer than round 1). People taking Rogan's stance that it was 30-27 without question are a bit off imo.snorlax said:I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
Except that a large number of Garcia's punches don't connect and another large portion are blocked (in both cases, because his opponent sees the hour-long wind-up). Some fans and judges are impressed by his Toughman-esque windmills though.snorlax said:I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
modogg
Footballguy
You have to appreciate that Dana sounds like a general good guy. According to this, he paid Nam his win bonus along with everything else:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/28433...-the-win-bonus/
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/28433...-the-win-bonus/
Possum
Footballguy
I disagree that the 1st and 3rd were close, but if they were close, enough that you could see it going either way, your score card should have those rounds as a 10-10. The scorecard should reflect the fight. A close round 1, dominant round 2, and a close round 3 should probably be a 30-29 or, at worst a 28-28 where you gave Garcia the 1st and 3rd, but Nam a 10-8 for the second.The lack of 10-10 and reluctance to score 10-8 rounds exacerbate bad judging.snorlax said:I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
round 2 should easily have been a 10-8 round for Phan, the guy dominated in it. Round 1 was close and I thought Phan probably won the third round by a little bit.
Possum
Footballguy
agree - Brookins is a nice guy but I can't stand his style.Clayton Gray said:
Lindland needs to hang up the gloves or just start fighting lower comp in regional shows or something. He's just a name at this point, I think - didn't have a chance against Lawler or Jacare.
No? Why's that? I think the guy's turned into a legit top ten HW - he's strong as hell, huge, solid striking and BJJ. Mike Kyle's no joke - he was on something like a 6 fight win streak going into the fight with Silva.
agree the Strikeforce card was more exciting, but then again Strikeforce almost always puts on exciting events. UFC is just putting on too many events these days imo, they still have most of the best fighters and better production that SF, but I've gotten tired of buying the PPVs to watch a bunch of guys lean against the wall or lay on top of each other all night long. Hopefully the WEC absorption is gonna provide a shot in the arm for them.the SF prelims are usually shown live on Sherdog but I couldn't get the stream to work last night.
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hooter311
Footballguy
You really hit the nail on the head here. The judges need to stop scoring it like it's a 10 or 12 round boxing match. Both of these need to become the norm.
RudiStein
*Not really a bail bondsman
Except that a large number of Garcia's punches don't connect and another large portion are blocked (in both cases, because his opponent sees the hour-long wind-up). Some fans and judges are impressed by his Toughman-esque windmills though.snorlax said:I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
Garcia looked TERRIBLE the last half of the fight. Huffing and puffing and swinging for the fences shouldn't impress anybody outside of a school yard. The decision was a travesty. I can't believe anybody would agree with that decision.
snorlax
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Garcia did look like garbage in the third round, like he was just trying to be a mockery of guys who legitimately swing for the fences, but judges do look at things like aggressiveness and octagon control, and it's awfully hard not to give Garcia the edge on those criteria. Nam certainly looked like the better fighter, but he just did not score a lot of points that final round. I don't think that this decision is shocking at all based on how I've seen fights scored in the past. I haven't seen a magic formula for how judges are supposed to weigh the various factors that go into a decision, which makes me think they just judge based on what sticks out to them, and I can't fault them for that. In the end, this loss is like Jon Jones's loss for the illegal elbow or Anderson Silva's loss for the upkick; no one's going to think less of him as a fighter for it.Except that a large number of Garcia's punches don't connect and another large portion are blocked (in both cases, because his opponent sees the hour-long wind-up). Some fans and judges are impressed by his Toughman-esque windmills though.I watched this after I got home last night. Phan clearly won the second in such a convincing fashion that I think it is clouding some of your memories. The first and third were both pretty close, and I don't have any problem with giving Garcia either of the other two rounds. Phan probably is the fighter with more potential though.That's why I'm not so suprised Garcia got the win. I watched the fight just once...but I thought Garcia won the 1st and Phan won the 2nd and 3rd, with only the 2nd being an absolute lock round. The 30-27 card suprises me just as much as the two 29-28 cards. I'm more upset that one judge saw the fight so differently than two other judges...no matter who was right or wrong.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Verbal agreement for Cody McKenzie to fight Yves Edwards on UFC Fight Night 23 (Jan 22). Yves has been around a long time and has fought a lot of top level guys. Very good test for McKenzie here.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/21656/replacemen...ht-night-23.mma
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
He's going to catch a lot of guys with it at any level. Almost all jiujitsu players have moves and techniques that they have a natural aptitude for and make a big part of their game. Even at the top levels of jiujitsu, Marcelo Garcia get rear naked chokes against the best guys in the world at far more frequently than anyone else. It isn't just because he's Marcelo, it's so much better at that technique than everyone else. I really hate comparing Cody to MG, a better one might be Imanari with leg locks.
It isn't just that he modified the technique, he's got a tons of setups and alterations that guys really haven't seen, otherwise he wouldn't be catching nearly everyone with it.