NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Whether it was fixed or not, be ready for many more of these type of fights.
The ratings were the best in Bellator history.
The ratings were the best in Bellator history.
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UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter AhrnCityPahnder
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hooter311
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Looks like Aldo is scared and backing out of the fight.
modogg
Footballguy
Well, Joe Rogan mentioned it on his podcast, and that guy knows a few things about fighting. I don't think people ever really thought it was fixed, most of the chatter was at the moment when watching the fight and it just looked "weird". Smith explains the submission well because that was one that didn't click for me with Shamrock how his technique could be so poor. that was like white belt level stuff and for a man known for his master of submissions (I still shed a tear knowing every time he is on TV they highlight that he beat Bas 2 times) could be so bad at them.
Anyway Hooter, I see your ex-NHL player is on the card this weekend. I don't know much about him, except it seems he has been training at Tri-Star for some time. haven't seen any lines yet, and I forget who he is even matched up against, but is he an auto-fade?
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
No surprise. As long as they don't do them too often, these well built up old timer fights will get viewers.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
So McGregor rented the Vegas mansion for nothing then 
If report is true, no way I fight if I'm Aldo.
If Jose is out I'm willing to step in and beat @TheNotoriousMMA again!! @ufc@danawhite
— Joseph duffy (@Duffy_MMA) June 23, 2015
If report is true, no way I fight if I'm Aldo.If Jose is out I'm willing to step in and beat @TheNotoriousMMA again!! @ufc@danawhite
— Joseph duffy (@Duffy_MMA) June 23, 2015
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BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
ya joe rogan wouldnt take a shot at Bellator if given a chance ...he`s completely un biased
hooter311
Footballguy
Yes. Auto fade. Bosse is one of the baddest ### dudes on the planet but I don't think he has anything to offer at the UFC level. His match up, Thiago Santos is a bit of flake, but he does some vicious work to the body. but I am confident in him finishing inside the distance.modogg said:
Bosse's last MMA win was over 2 years ago in a no name organization against a guy currently sporting a 5-7 record. He is also cutting down to 185 for the first time, he had fought at 205 before but generally didn't cut weight and doesn't have much experience getting used to the cut.
The 2 biggest red flags are the ability to fight competitively at the weight class.and the fact that he was signed by the UFC 2 years ago and instead of seizing the opportunity he retired a month later because of the wear and tear on is body from his days as a hockey enforcer. To cut down to 185 he would have had to spend most of his camp dropping weight and not training to win.
I expect Bosse to stalk Santos against the fence and then get dropped by a kick to the liver.
Again, I love Bosse, I'd love to see him matched up with some Bellator scrubs or even a run in TUF house. But I don't see how he has anything to offer on this stage.
This clip was from this March. Knocking a guy out on skates is impressive. But it says nothing about his footwork in the octagon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZT-xeKm9ZE
hooter311
Footballguy
Also, to address the "weird" parts of the fights:modogg said:
1. Kimbo's takedown defense is awful. He has chicken legs and is extremely top heavy. Those weak ### takedowns from Shamrock were much more due to Kimbo's lack of skill.
2. Shamrock's submission attempt was piss poor. He did not have his hips high enough to be able to use his core and leg strength for leverage. At 51, and with the damage he took as a pro wrestler it doesn't surprise me that his flexibility is completely shot. The rear naked choke is a blood choke, you put enough pressure on the carotid artery and in 7-8 seconds the brain shuts off. Instead of applying it correctly, Ken tried to wrench his head around in a neck crank that would completely drain his arm strength. After the first 10 seconds, he had no shot at finishing it. To Kimbo's credit, he defended it very well. First, he turned his chin in towards Ken's elbow, protecting the artery from pressure. Since Ken did not have the body triangle properly established, Kimbo was able to roll to his back and arch his hips giving him all the leverage and removing forcing Shamrock to further drain his arms. Shamrock always relied on power more than technique and mostly against guys who didn't know how to properly defend. He was completely lost in making the adjustments he needed to win.
3. As soon as Kimbo got back up, Shamrock's arms were so cashed he could barely raise them above his waste. He knew he had nothing left to offer and Kimbo served him a way out of the fight right to the noggin.
We watched an over the hill brawler against a physically shot fighter of yesteryear. Of course it was ugly, but not one second of the fight ever had me thinking the fix was in.
And if It was fixed, they would have had Shamrock win with an ankle lock. Fixing it for a -300 Kimbo would be the dumbest thing I ever heard of.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
hooter311
Footballguy
BS. Aldo has defended the belt 7 times in 4 years. He has been the only 145 lb champ the UFC has ever had. He has beat Mendes twice, as well as Edgar. This fight was the pay day Aldo has been waiting for his entire career. When McGregor and Aldo do fight it will be the biggest PPV event in years for the UFC.
That belt is Aldo's and no other two guys in the division deserve to be in the discussion to fight for it.
Aldo scared of McGregor? ###### hilarious!!!
Aldo should be -350 against him. Take a look at how much weight Conor puts on his lead leg and what Aldo can do with leg kicks. Aldo is the best p4p fighter in the sport until proven otherwise.
modogg
Footballguy
my initial reaction is that this is Aldo's camp playing some games. I think if the fight was cancelled the news leaked would have already been that the fight was cancelled. seems strange that a potential injury would leak and the fight would not already be cancelled. never seen that happen before.
and count me in the camp that Aldo is scared of McGreggor. that is a lot more fun of an idea. And yeah, I have been thinking the same thing about the leg kicks. seems like the kind of fight where Aldo wants to embarass McGreggor, and kicking the #### out of his leg where he can't even stand and making him come out for another round is a great way to do it.
One thing i am looking forward to is to see how their speed compares.
ETA: also i will take Jones as pound for pound. And i also think i will take Edgar in another match up against Aldo. Especially if they make the Aldo-Edgar fight in the fall
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modogg
Footballguy
wow. the combo of the UFC and some of these state athletic commissions really will shake up the sport. Shmelenko is suspended for 3 years by CSAC. that pretty much has to be the end of his career right?:
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/6/23/8836099/ex-bellator-champ-alexander-shlemenko-suspended-three-years-fined-10k
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/6/23/8836099/ex-bellator-champ-alexander-shlemenko-suspended-three-years-fined-10k
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hooter311
Footballguy
I have a feeling bare knuckle fights on Indian Reservations are going to become very interesting the next few years.
3 years is BS. Nobody should be suspended longer than a year for anything.
modogg
Footballguy
it is a career killer in some cases and is a huge statement. what is really insane is that it is a much more severe penalty than other sports out there, when these guys make a lot less money too.
crazy to think how much more money Bonds and those MLB guys made by popping all sorts of stuff, and comparing it to the advantage Shmelenko got for this fight.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
McGregor called it last December:
Aldo is trembling with fear.
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SIDA!
Footballguy
You believe this or is it just schtick?
Do they ever release x-rays when a fighter pulls out due to an injury to the public/media?
modogg
Footballguy
Yeah, I think you guys can give Cliff a break here. He is playing into it, common sense would tell all of us that nobody in true fear or scared would fight in the UFC. I myself like Cliff channeling his inner McGreggor though
ETA: latest I heard was that Aldo might be out until October. they said it a possible fractured rib and will depend when he gets X-rays maybe next week or something. I still think with the mind games of this fight going around that Aldo could be trying to mess with McGreggor a bit, but who knows. Would be horrendous is this fight had to be cancelled or rescheduled, but I am sure that no matter how bad we feel about it the UFC and fighters feel worse
ETA: latest I heard was that Aldo might be out until October. they said it a possible fractured rib and will depend when he gets X-rays maybe next week or something. I still think with the mind games of this fight going around that Aldo could be trying to mess with McGreggor a bit, but who knows. Would be horrendous is this fight had to be cancelled or rescheduled, but I am sure that no matter how bad we feel about it the UFC and fighters feel worse
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I swear, I get more disappointments than I do enjoyment the last couple of years when following MMA.
I was so looking forward to this card :(
I was so looking forward to this card :(
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Can't see them pulling McGregor from the card so it'll be interesting to see if they can find someone who isn't too scared to step up to the plate. Think I've seen Edgar and Holloway throw their hat in the ring.
Barry
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
I don't believe a fight is actually going to happen until the weigh-ins. I stopped getting worked about it. Really cost me a lot of interest in the sport.
modogg
Footballguy
I know when the UFC was proposing their health insurance policy a lot of people were thinking you would have more fights lost because people felt less pressure to fight with the health coverage. I have no idea if that is a direct effect or what, but it does make you wonder. and I agree, losing so many fights to injury is tiresome.
BillyBarooo
Footballguy
would be interesting to look at other contact sports and the frequency of injuries occurring during practice. Not really sure how you avoid it though given the nature of training for a fight
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The injury is real, but Aldo's camp is still waiting to make a final decision
Aldo's sparring partner said
"I threw a kick but slipped with all the sweat on the mat, and ended up hitting his rib," Nunes told MMAFighting.com. "I was mimicking McGregor's unorthodox style, things he does in the fight. I'm also left-handed, my style is similar to his, so that's why they asked me to be part of his camp, but I ended up slipping and causing this injury."
"I'm still sad about all this," he said. "As a fan and an athlete, I know this is devastating. I'm really sad. Aldo was in shape and prepared for this fight."
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
And not surprisingly, many people watched the train wreck. Their best ratings ever.
Bonnar/Ortiz drew great. Kimbo/Shamrock drew great. And in the meantime, new viewers are seeing Bellator's other talent in the process.
As long as they're not putting these long timer fights month after month, tney're going to continue to draw. Guys like Shamrock/Kimbo are getting paychecks that they never thought they would see again. It won't be surprising at all to see more and more guys coming out of retirement for paychecks.
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Paulymaggs
Footballguy
Ortiz - Slice works for me.
modogg
Footballguy
best one i heard this week was Kimbo-Frank Shamrock to avenge his step-brother.
what i find amazing is how much we still are discussing Bellator, and this fight specifically. For me, Bellator has a pretty good roster, and there are a lot better fighters to discuss but everyone is still fascinated with Ken-Kimbo. i don't know if it isnt nostalgia or what. Joanna J dominated another fight, but we can't get past Kimbo-Shamrock. i just am curious what it is
what i find amazing is how much we still are discussing Bellator, and this fight specifically. For me, Bellator has a pretty good roster, and there are a lot better fighters to discuss but everyone is still fascinated with Ken-Kimbo. i don't know if it isnt nostalgia or what. Joanna J dominated another fight, but we can't get past Kimbo-Shamrock. i just am curious what it is
modogg
Footballguy
i'm still standing by that the publicity of Aldo is a tactic by his camp. not sure the entire purpose, and i'm sure he may be a little banged up, but i think if it was serious the announcement would have been Aldo is out. never seen so much publicity for a what if... all of these announcements are always made after the fighter had to pull from the fight
modogg
Footballguy
well here you go.. sounds like the fight is still on:
http://www.mmamania.com/2015/6/24/8842855/ufc-189-jose-aldo-rib-bruised-not-broken-conor-mcgregor-fight-still-on
Now, if this is all legit and everything, i wonder how them being precautious with Aldo's rib will effect his training. Channeling my inner Clint, It looks to me like Aldo is already setting the stage for an excuse when McGreggor beats him. makes sense if he knows he is going to lose
http://www.mmamania.com/2015/6/24/8842855/ufc-189-jose-aldo-rib-bruised-not-broken-conor-mcgregor-fight-still-on
Now, if this is all legit and everything, i wonder how them being precautious with Aldo's rib will effect his training. Channeling my inner Clint, It looks to me like Aldo is already setting the stage for an excuse when McGreggor beats him. makes sense if he knows he is going to lose
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
I like McGregor's style, but I am not sure he could beat Aldo regardless of injury.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
modogg said:
modogg
Footballguy
so, completely different topic here but i am watching TUF and it made me thinking of scoring changes that have been proposed. one that seems to be the more popular is using .5 points. I have heard arguments against it, but watching this fight on TUF, i think one of the best things .5 point scoring would do is get rid of this f'n lay and pray. Dude laid on the other guy for most of the round, through wild punches from time to time, and spent the last 30 seconds of the 1st round running from the guy. Seems like a wonderful place to have .5 point scoring where that guy would win that round 10-9.5. no way a round like that should equate to many of the 10-9 rounds out there that exist
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I think Aldo is probably going to crush McGregor. Also hasn't lost in almost 10 years while facing a murderer's row of top guys in both the WEC and UFC. McGregor has won five fights against guys tailor made style-wise and talks a lot to sell fights. There's a reason that the UFC fed Siver to McGregor to set up the title shot instead of putting him in there with Mendes, Edgar, Lamas, etc and making him earn it.BustedKnuckles said:
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
can you explain this proposed rule change in scoring more? Can you still have 10-9 rounds along with 10-9.5 rounds?
I would appreciate any rule that hurts the lay and pray guys (they are awful to watch).
Could the .5 lead to more fights that are draws? (say two 10-9.5 rounds for one guy and then one 10-9 for the other?)
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
assuming this is not a work in any way, I think his cardio might be affected here. Anyone who had had their ribs hurt knows how hard it is to jog, much less sprint. The story talks about him being in "deep pain".modogg said:
Hopefully if this is not a work, his weight is in a good spot right now.
modogg
Footballguy
i think they are doing it now on the amateur level in a few states. and yes, the point is they just add .5 increments. so theoretically we would see more 9.5, 9, 8.5, 8 rounds. as it is now, i don't think we will ever see a 10-7 round (or at least scored 10-7), so the rule change was brought up to provide more options than 9 and 8. That is a good point about the draws, but theoretically we would see the same result now if a guy had 2 10-9 rounds and the other had a 10-8. gotta do good training for judges, and i haven't heard much about it since they started it a year or 2 ago.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
10-8 are pretty rare though I think. I wonder if the 9.5's would be more common which could then lead to more draws?
If they are already doing it at the amateur levels in a few areas, then they could see the stats on that accord I guess.
Who makes this decision? Can the UFC by themselves make the decision to make the change or does some governing body that oversees MMA have to make the change?
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
McGregor hasn't beaten anyone even remotely on Aldo's level.BustedKnuckles said: