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UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter AhrnCityPahnder
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modogg
Footballguy
yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
SIDA!
Footballguy
I feel like not only should a fighter get suspended...but in a situation like this where he is costing Iaquinta a fight and an opportunity to feed his family that a suspended fighter should be fined in addition to all other penalties to compensate the other fighter.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
I am not an attorney, but the fact of the matter is that Iaquinta is harmed by this financially.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
This is assuming he can't get a replacement fight. And I'd have to go digging for examples, but I remember Dana paying fighters their show and win purses in some circumstances (like this one) where they got F'd by circumstances beyond their control.I feel like not only should a fighter get suspended...but in a situation like this where he is costing Iaquinta a fight and an opportunity to feed his family that a suspended fighter should be fined in addition to all other penalties to compensate the other fighter.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
I am not an attorney, but the fact of the matter is that Iaquinta is harmed by this financially.
hooter311
Footballguy
Taking one fight hurt can make a huge difference in your career path. These guys only get a majority of their salary when they step in the cage. I don't want to have money on someone that shouldn't be fighting and I don't want to see guys make themselves show up just to get a paycheck.
There are going to be injuries in combat sports. Its just the way it is. Just like almost every elite pitcher will now sit out for 16 months with Tommy John surgery. Its just part of the career path.
Aldo could not have fought Connor with his rib broke the way it was, he would have a hard time lifting his arms above his head let alone throwing a punch. Cormier has had issues with his knee since the Jones fight, he just wasn't passing up a title shot for it, he had waited too long for his shot.
I have no problems with fights getting canceled. I have no problems with guys defending their belts one a year. The UFC has done a better job at lining up replacements since the Chael Sonnen 205lb title shot fiasco. For the headliners and co-mains they should have guys signed as an option A and B.
I'm glad Mendes was ready to go, Conor is just such a bad style matchup for Edgar, I don't think that fight would have lasted 3 minutes. Conor weighed 172 lbs on Friday and had already begun his cut. 27lbs in 8 days is insane at 145. If he doesn't steamroll Chad early, I don't know how much cardio he could possibly have for 5 rounds.
I don't usually hedge, but I think I'll most likely be on Conor R1 and Mendes by submission together. If Mendes survives early I'll be dancing around like a school girl. Conor simply too big to be effective at 145 for 5 rounds. The UFC has some top of the line scientific #### for him to even make it there.
Conor R1- +345
Mendes by Sub- +670
There are going to be injuries in combat sports. Its just the way it is. Just like almost every elite pitcher will now sit out for 16 months with Tommy John surgery. Its just part of the career path.
Aldo could not have fought Connor with his rib broke the way it was, he would have a hard time lifting his arms above his head let alone throwing a punch. Cormier has had issues with his knee since the Jones fight, he just wasn't passing up a title shot for it, he had waited too long for his shot.
I have no problems with fights getting canceled. I have no problems with guys defending their belts one a year. The UFC has done a better job at lining up replacements since the Chael Sonnen 205lb title shot fiasco. For the headliners and co-mains they should have guys signed as an option A and B.
I'm glad Mendes was ready to go, Conor is just such a bad style matchup for Edgar, I don't think that fight would have lasted 3 minutes. Conor weighed 172 lbs on Friday and had already begun his cut. 27lbs in 8 days is insane at 145. If he doesn't steamroll Chad early, I don't know how much cardio he could possibly have for 5 rounds.
I don't usually hedge, but I think I'll most likely be on Conor R1 and Mendes by submission together. If Mendes survives early I'll be dancing around like a school girl. Conor simply too big to be effective at 145 for 5 rounds. The UFC has some top of the line scientific #### for him to even make it there.
Conor R1- +345
Mendes by Sub- +670
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
From what I remember, GSP, Silva, Chuck, Couture, Penn, Henderson, etc. never missed a fight.yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
hooter311
Footballguy
If your opponent screws up and doesn't make the fight for whatever reason, the UFC has a history of still paying the fighter with win bonus. They will most likely make Al step on the scale even if no opponent and if he makes weight he will get paid.This is assuming he can't get a replacement fight. And I'd have to go digging for examples, but I remember Dana paying fighters their show and win purses in some circumstances (like this one) where they got F'd by circumstances beyond their control.I feel like not only should a fighter get suspended...but in a situation like this where he is costing Iaquinta a fight and an opportunity to feed his family that a suspended fighter should be fined in addition to all other penalties to compensate the other fighter.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
I am not an attorney, but the fact of the matter is that Iaquinta is harmed by this financially.
With fighters getting about such a small percent of UFC's total revenue without a union, it is very cost effective for the UFC. The fighters need the UFC more than the UFC needs the fighters. Hopefully that will change with this craptastic reebok deal.
I will never give a dime of my money again to Reebok on purpose after the way UFC handled their fighters.
hooter311
Footballguy
And before that Don Frye would fight a dozen guys in a night if he could. I agree that the warriors of yesteryear have now been replaced with athletes and that trend will continue more and more. Being tough used to be enough to get you at least in the door, now you have to also be a pretty #### gifted athlete to make it out of the regionals.From what I remember, GSP, Silva, Chuck, Couture, Penn, Henderson, etc. never missed a fight.yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
I just got google-baited, but that's ok.From what I remember, GSP, Silva, Chuck, Couture, Penn, Henderson, etc. never missed a fight.yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
GSP pulled out of 137 vs Carlos Condit.
Liddell pulled out of UFC85 vs Rashad Evans
Hendo pulled out of his title shot vs Jones, then Jones turned down Chael which lead to UFC151 getting cancelled.
I couldn’t find any instances of Couture or Anderson or Penn missing a marquee fight because of injury.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Should have remembered Henderson and GSP. Apologies for wasting your bandwidth.I just got google-baited, but that's ok.From what I remember, GSP, Silva, Chuck, Couture, Penn, Henderson, etc. never missed a fight.yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
GSP pulled out of 137 vs Carlos Condit.
Liddell pulled out of UFC85 vs Rashad Evans
Hendo pulled out of his title shot vs Jones, then Jones turned down Chael which lead to UFC151 getting cancelled.
I couldnt find any instances of Couture or Anderson or Penn missing a marquee fight because of injury.
modogg
Footballguy
i don't know all that stuff is coming from Chael. I do think the media promotion Conner did deserves a ton of credit. his schedule was just dumb 2 weeks before a fight this huge. Can't believe UFC would make him do all of that and not think it won't effect his performance.
And i gotta disagree here bud. I think you are giving some of these guys way too much leeway. Aldo backing out of 5 title fights is more than i thought he did, but across the board all of these are just terrible. Agreed in an ideal world fighters would not fight injured, but I can't let all the fighters off that easily. I hear you that a majority of the fighters need to step in the cage to fight, and i think that is the problem here. People like Valasaquez can sit on the side for 2 years because of sponsors and other stuff he has got himself involved in. Champs have a lot of those opportunities other fighters don't.
Aldo's situation may be different here, but i can't just excuse all of these fights being cancelled. At some point the fight camps and trainers need to take responsibility to have their fighters healthy and ready to fight
modogg
Footballguy
interesting part is the UFC's charge against all banned substances will make this issue significantly worse (most of the uses of PEDs was to rush back from injury). It is good they have so many cards i guess, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to have most of these fights rescheduled.
modogg
Footballguy
one thing that bothers me about all of these is when guys do what Gil did and say they must have taken something that they didn't know would do this to their tests. if that was the case, why would they not come out and say what it is/was so everybody could understand a little better. if it is something you get in GNC or something, the public would be much more forgiving. i assume most of the fighters have taken something known to get them busted so that is why they don't say, but i have to imagine some may get caught like this and i can't figure out why they don't give detailsAhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
hooter311
Footballguy
It's because everybody dopes, mo. They can come up with some bs, but athletes know what they are doing. A high school kid can pass a drug test he knows is coming, for an athlete its 25% of their job responsibilities.one thing that bothers me about all of these is when guys do what Gil did and say they must have taken something that they didn't know would do this to their tests. if that was the case, why would they not come out and say what it is/was so everybody could understand a little better. if it is something you get in GNC or something, the public would be much more forgiving. i assume most of the fighters have taken something known to get them busted so that is why they don't say, but i have to imagine some may get caught like this and i can't figure out why they don't give detailsAhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
hooter311
Footballguy
Fighting hurts, let guys have a career. It's sad to see guys like Shogun completely depleted in their early 30's due to head trauma. Granted, fighter care has come along way since then but say you devote 5 years of your life to training strictly MMA to make it in the big leagues and then 7 years taking big league damage and you retire as a shadow of what you once were.
I think of Joe Stevenson who was a half way decent fighter but just kept too busy of a schedule. I know camps all take sparring differently, but there is only so much head trauma a human can take. Some guys last longer than others and the heavier the weight class the less speed is a factor which gives fighters a little longer to mature.
Another guy I think of is Stefan Struve. So much potential but came up too early and just had his face pounded in. He was good enough, but now its like he is semi-retired at 27.
7 years of pro fighting or around 25 fights is where I see most fighters start to decline, guys that can take less damage last longer and some guys are just freaks of nature and last however long. Dan Henderson, I am looking at you.
Why not let their 25 fights draw out a little longer of their lives? What's the hurry? If they want to fight, let them fight, but I think it should only be mandatory to defend the belt every 12 months.
I think of Joe Stevenson who was a half way decent fighter but just kept too busy of a schedule. I know camps all take sparring differently, but there is only so much head trauma a human can take. Some guys last longer than others and the heavier the weight class the less speed is a factor which gives fighters a little longer to mature.
Another guy I think of is Stefan Struve. So much potential but came up too early and just had his face pounded in. He was good enough, but now its like he is semi-retired at 27.
7 years of pro fighting or around 25 fights is where I see most fighters start to decline, guys that can take less damage last longer and some guys are just freaks of nature and last however long. Dan Henderson, I am looking at you.
Why not let their 25 fights draw out a little longer of their lives? What's the hurry? If they want to fight, let them fight, but I think it should only be mandatory to defend the belt every 12 months.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
On the opposite end of the not fighting spectrum is Cowboy Cerrone. He has fought an astounding 8 times since November 2013.
He was suppose to be finally taking a rest but when he heard about Melendez he reached out to Dana and said he would be ready for Iaquinta.
He was suppose to be finally taking a rest but when he heard about Melendez he reached out to Dana and said he would be ready for Iaquinta.
hooter311
Footballguy
It was coming from Chael, but I have to believe at least most of what he reported. Here was Conor a week ago standing next to Weidman at the Reebok shoot.
http://mmalatestnews.com/mcgregor-countdown-to-ufc-189-chris-weidmans-pick/
I've met Chris at a random bar after a UFC event in Minneapolis. I'm 6'2" 220lbs and he made me feel tiny. It baffles me how Conor can make 145, I mean seriously. One thing with the distractions, when your main compadre is Gunnar Nelson with a resting heartbeat of like 30, I have to think their Mental training is pretty intensive. Weidman called Conor the champ due to the law of attraction. Its weird because while I didn't see Conor having a prayer against a healthy Aldo, but I was always in the "let's see him against a wrestler camp"' which Chad is the owner of 145. I feel like I would be picking Chad if he had a full camp, but I can't wait to see McGregor unleash himself.
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AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
I'm really torn about this. you make a very solid point and one that's tough to argue with. There's got to be a happy medium between Dominick Cruz and being a glass jawed vegetable at age 30. I'm just not sure where the line should be drawn.
SIDA!
Footballguy
Agree with much of what you said, but have to disagree with this. Basically, what you are saying is once a guy makes it to the top...then screw the other fighters scratching and clawing to get to the top.
I don't think that is fair to the guys who are working hard and trying to become champions. A fighter's window during their peak is very narrow.
I don't know the answer though...because I don't think a fighter should lose his belt just because he gets a freak injury and I don't think there should be a hard and fast rule of x number of days or months.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Jimmo, wait.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Not much of a career if you're only fighting once a year as a young guy. The money just isn't enough. If you don't make a name for yourself by fighting, you don't have a career unless you have a mouth/image/style like McGregor.
Struve is a bad example IMO. Lots of talent but a terrible body for heavyweight. And heavyweights in general would likely lead to a shorter career. Your chin/brain doesn't get stronger because your body gets bigger but the punches you eat certainly will be harder.
For every guy that has a shortened career from fighting too much, there is a guy with a long "healthy" career.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Serra also pulled out of his scheduled title fight with Hughes, which ended up being GSP/Hughes 3 for the interim title.I just got google-baited, but that's ok.From what I remember, GSP, Silva, Chuck, Couture, Penn, Henderson, etc. never missed a fight.yup. and it will get worse. DC postponing his title defense against Gus is disappointing too to get treatment for his knee.This is getting depressing.AhrnCityPahnder said:Gilbert Melendez pissed hot from UFC 188, suspended for 1 year
Funny, but i never remember champs getting out of this many fights years ago.
GSP pulled out of 137 vs Carlos Condit.
Liddell pulled out of UFC85 vs Rashad Evans
Hendo pulled out of his title shot vs Jones, then Jones turned down Chael which lead to UFC151 getting cancelled.
I couldn’t find any instances of Couture or Anderson or Penn missing a marquee fight because of injury.
hooter311
Footballguy
That's kind of my point, I just failed to make it. If your young and hungry or are like Cerrone and live from tax bill to tax bill then by all means be active, I'm just saying you shouldn't be forced to be active more than once a year, or say 3 times every 24 months would be more realistic.
This no IV deal is going to be huge if it stays the course. There is just no way to properly hydrate a human body 20+lbs in 24 hours without the use of an IV. Aldo and McGregor can kiss the 145lb class goodbye at that point.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I don't think any fighter is forced to fight more than they want to other than maybe champs. And if you're the champ, the money and prestige comes with the responsibility of being active.
They just need to get away from weight cutting altogether. Have the weigh-ins a few hours before the fight so the guys only have to adjust by 2-3lbs.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
One of the best TUF episodes ever.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
With all the McGregor hype, I didn't even notice the other fights. Might actually splurge for this card.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Downside to this is folks are in the seats when they find out the fight is cancelled because some dip#### couldn't make weight. :(
SIDA!
Footballguy
If you aren't willing to pay for this fight, not sure what card you would ever be willing to pay for. Must watch TV.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Fights are rarely cancelled because someone missed weight. And if they are, it is because they've dehydrated too much which wouldn't be the case if they were weighing in the day of the fight.
SIDA!
Footballguy
Thought it was a great finale and a great fight to end the season.
I think Vicente could have easily won that fight and didn't have any problems with the split decision.
After the take downs (which I think are overrated) in the final round, I was prepared to see Vicente's arm raised.
I think Vicente could have easily won that fight and didn't have any problems with the split decision.
After the take downs (which I think are overrated) in the final round, I was prepared to see Vicente's arm raised.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
SIDA!
Footballguy
Conor in all his glory here at the presser:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/7/9/8924129/ufc-189-video-mcgregor-at-pre-fight-presser-mendes-facial-structure
I have never wanted to see a fighter win a fight more than this one. I love being on the McGregor train!
Choo choo!
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/7/9/8924129/ufc-189-video-mcgregor-at-pre-fight-presser-mendes-facial-structure
I have never wanted to see a fighter win a fight more than this one. I love being on the McGregor train!
Choo choo!
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Hands down.... The ATT fighter Hayder trying to land the haymaker knockout with every swing. He looked very tired early in the 2nd but kept on throwing. Vicente had pretty good defense but his takedowns were so weak and ineffective... absolutely zero damage. Hayder couldn't even stand once the fight was over. An absolutely awesome high-stakes finale and a great comeback win by ATT.
kutta
Footballguy
So strange how different people see different things. I can't stand Conor and hope Chad destroys him. I hate the disrespectful trash talk.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Hayder was definitely channeling Leonard Garcia at times during that fight. I'm glad ATT won. They've always struck me as a camp that wrings the most out of the talent that their guys have. the Blackzillians are a roster full of $100 pedigrees who usually deliver $18 in big fights.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Also lost in the hype -- Mick Swick! Mike Swick!
BAH GAWD KANG, MIKE SWICK IS BACK!
kutta
Footballguy
Whoa!
I won a ton of money when I was in vegas years ago and bet on Demian Maia against Swick. Maia wasn't super well known at the time, and he was something like +400. I was pretty wasted and had just seen a clip on Maia and his special forces police stuff he does, so i bet $500 on him to win. He ended up winning, and ever since then I've really liked Swick for losing that fight.
SIDA!
Footballguy
I definitely understand this point of view and have no qualms with anyone who holds this position.
Even though I love his schtick, I think he crosses the line a little bit.
With all that said, I don't really understand how anyone can't appreciate what he has been able to accomplish. He is only 26 years old and has single handedly willed himself into a position where he was/is challenging for a championship belt. He is single handedly responsible for creating the largest MMA fight in the sport's history.
I find myself in awe of his self-confidence and thoroughly enchanted by the "manifest destiny" nature of his rise.
Of course, if he gets obliterated on Saturday it is all going to come crashing down.
Thus far, he has talked the talk and literally walked the walk. He has been pretty much calling his shot each and every time and it is like the heavens have opened and the stars have aligned. Just a fun journey to watch unfold as a spectator of the sport.
Even those who don't like McGregor must recognize that he has been a boon to the sport. He is bringing in a lot of casual fans and observers. My girlfriend rolls her eyes when she hears me listening to his interviews/pressers. But you know what, she keeps asking me about this fight and when it is going down. And she is going to be watching the fight with me and friends when usually she would be out of the house doing something else or in the other room doing her stuff.
He definitely crosses the line at times during pre-fight promotional tours, but he also understands that that is what gets the fans tuned in and gets him paid. And we can all say what we want to say, and all the other fighters can say what they want to say, but McGregor is getting paid and he is actually making his opponents richer, too.
As an aside, what is your take on Diaz and his antics?
SIDA!
Footballguy
Great finale for the TUF season and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I remember watching so many fights earlier in the season and on many other seasons wondering where these guys' killer instincts are...where is the desire to seize an opportunity and elevate themselves to the next level.
After watching this season where ATT was getting obliterated in the early going and then watching BZ collapse and allow ATT to tie them up I was left scratching my head and thinking:
"These are two of the best camps?"
While I enjoyed watching the season as far as entertainment value I was pretty disappointed by the caliber of fighting we saw.
The only guy I can really get behind is Hayder. He seems like a fighter's fighter. I love the heart and drive, but I didn't see anything in all of his fights that gave me the impression he was anything more than a head hunter looking to land a haymaker.
kutta
Footballguy
Totally agree with your post.And the Diaz brothers are two of my least favorite fighters. I like how they (usually) bring it in the octagon, but I can't stand them.
SIDA!
Footballguy
Hey Kutta...did you get a chance to watch the presser in the link I posted above?
I love me some Rory MacDonald and this kid is almost catatonic. It is such a bizarre contrast to see McGregor and MacDonald side by side.
My favorite fighters right now are:
McGregor
Condit
MacDonald
Cerrone
and...uh...err....ben rothwell...lol
I love me some Rory MacDonald and this kid is almost catatonic. It is such a bizarre contrast to see McGregor and MacDonald side by side.
My favorite fighters right now are:
McGregor
Condit
MacDonald
Cerrone
and...uh...err....ben rothwell...lol
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
SIDA!
Footballguy
As an aside, Dustin Poirier had some interesting comments in an interview. You all might get a laugh in the last minute when he talks about Cormier going "Hollywood".
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/7/9/8925745/dustin-poirier-gives-advice-to-mendes-before-mcgregor-fight
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Great final fight and season. Hayder fighting 3 times in 16 days is insane. Great performance by both fighters. Tough fight to score.
kutta
Footballguy
I did watch it. Interesting that you also like Macdonald because he's another that I don't like. Just comes off as cocky to me. He's been better of late, but he rubbed me the wrong way early. Condit and Cerrone are two of my favorites. I also really like Lawler.SIDA! said: