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Ugoh got schooled today! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter chris1969
- Start date
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
That's odd...I didn't read the entire Colts/Cowboys thread but from what I did read people were saying he did a good job.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Agreed - Did he play poorly?
chris1969
Footballguy
He had a lot of bad plays, but he had one play in particular where the DE was into the QB before he got out of his stance. I hope he forgot the snap count on that play, but even if he did it still shows bad reaction time. He had his body out of position the whole time he was out there and couldn't move anyone in the run game. If he had a good play, I didn't see it.
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Tyrion
Footballguy
Ware did not get a sack so that alone should be a small victory for him. Ware is a beast.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
He looked just fine... considering he had to try and handle Demarcus Ware.
Thus far, its not a big issue. It might not be Tarrik Glenn, but his performance was fine.
Thus far, its not a big issue. It might not be Tarrik Glenn, but his performance was fine.
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Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
countdown to "Ugoh Girl" nickname in 3....2....1...
chris1969
Footballguy
Ware would have had 3 in what couldn't have been much more than a half dozen pass plays if Manning wasn't the QB. I'm not saying everybody should react at all at this point. I'd just say that it might be a good idea to watch Ugoh a little more next game.
chris1969
Footballguy
NFL network called him "Yugo" today, and they said they lost a Rolls Royce in Glenn
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Ouch.
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
Someone tell bentley he's got a job waiting for him in Indy!
Jason Wood
Zoo York
To those saying "he looked fine", Mark Schlereth broke down his performance on film during a late night session of NFL Live (I believe it was 1 a.m. EST) and absolutely schooled the kid. He said that we should've expected some struggles from the rook but he saw things that were very disappointing including:
...Not being aggressive at the point of attack
...Mishandled reads
...Missed shifts
...And worst of all (Schlereth said this is inexcusable), on more than one play he actually tripped over his own feet which speaks to a complete lack of basic technique
All in all, I'm going to have to side with the savvy and proven NFL O-lineman and maintain that the Colts are potentially in for a disappointing offensive season unless Ugoh or Johnson improve by LEAPS and BOUNDS.
...Not being aggressive at the point of attack
...Mishandled reads
...Missed shifts
...And worst of all (Schlereth said this is inexcusable), on more than one play he actually tripped over his own feet which speaks to a complete lack of basic technique
All in all, I'm going to have to side with the savvy and proven NFL O-lineman and maintain that the Colts are potentially in for a disappointing offensive season unless Ugoh or Johnson improve by LEAPS and BOUNDS.
wraith5
Footballguy
Good info - thanx Wood!
BigRed
Footballguy
Did Johnson look bad, because he was pretty decent last year -
djcolts
Footballguy
I'll wait until the week 3 preseason game to make a judgment on how this affects the offense. One drive with the 1st team is not much of a sample size - and Sorgi is the opposite of Manning (Sorgi makes an OL look bad, Manning makes the same level of OL look good). If Ugoh continues to struggle they'll put Johnson in and he'll do OK.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Some food for thought:
http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/10/pe...ckle-situation/
When Tarik Glenn announced his surprised retirement, it got some attention in fantasy football circles but I don’t feel it got enough. Our Chris Smith, who handles a lot of the offensive line analysis for Footballguys, posted his thoughts on the implications on the day of the announcement. He points out that this will be a real test for the Colts offense, including Peyton Manning:
We will get a true look at Manning’s greatness to start this season. If he steps in and doesn’t miss a beat with a new left tackle that will be a truly special feat. If anybody can do it, he will be able to thanks to his mental preparation each week.
After watching last night’s Colts vs. Cowboys preseason game and then hearing ESPN’s Mark Schlereth break down game tap on rookie LT Tony Ugoh’s performance, I think we need to take a long, hard look at just how much Manning has benefitted from great pass protection.
First, let’s state the obvious: Manning hasn’t been sacked a lot in his career.
* 1998 — 22 sacks
* 1999 — 14 sacks
* 2000 — 20 sacks
* 2001 — 29 sacks
* 2002 — 23 sacks
* 2003 — 18 sacks
* 2004 — 13 sacks
* 2005 — 17 sacks
* 2006 — 14 sacks
But it’s simply not enough to say the loss of Tarik Glenn will hurt the line play. We pretty much KNOW that to be true, but we have to look a little deeper before deciding whether Manning and the passing game deserve a downtick. Here are some thoughts (probably more talking points than hard answers):
1. The rest of the line remains solid – Ryan Lilja, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott and Ryan Diem are a cohesive, effective unit. It’s not as though the Colts are completely rebuilding their line.
2. Manning has excellent pocket awareness – Manning’s sack totals aren’t merely a byproduct of his line, he’s got great awareness and knows how and when to get rid of the ball
3. Manning has a quick release — See #2
The point here is: Tony Ugoh OR Charlie Johnson don’t have to be as good as Tarik Glenn. They just can’t be sieves (like Ugoh was last night).
For the sake of argument, let’s say the left tackle position IS a major liability. What could we then expect from the Colts passing offense?
1. Consistent pressure rattles ANY QB, including Manning — The few times we’ve seen teams successfully pressure Manning (i.e., sacks, knock downs, pressures); he has looked mortal. Because his baseline is higher than most, mortality isn’t necessarily a fantasy death knell, but if you’re relying on him as your 1st round pick; it could be somewhat tenuous.
2. Joseph Addai and Dallas Clark may lose touches, at the margin — Both Addai and Clark are in line for a lot of targets as you know. But both would be put in the position of having to stay in as blockers more often (and/or be benched on a few more plays for better in-line blocking backs and TEs, respectively)
What do you think about the Colts offense? Not worried at all? Need to see the LT situation develop a bit more over the next few weeks? Would you still draft Manning as QB1 in the late 1st or early 2nd round?
http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/10/pe...ckle-situation/
When Tarik Glenn announced his surprised retirement, it got some attention in fantasy football circles but I don’t feel it got enough. Our Chris Smith, who handles a lot of the offensive line analysis for Footballguys, posted his thoughts on the implications on the day of the announcement. He points out that this will be a real test for the Colts offense, including Peyton Manning:
We will get a true look at Manning’s greatness to start this season. If he steps in and doesn’t miss a beat with a new left tackle that will be a truly special feat. If anybody can do it, he will be able to thanks to his mental preparation each week.
After watching last night’s Colts vs. Cowboys preseason game and then hearing ESPN’s Mark Schlereth break down game tap on rookie LT Tony Ugoh’s performance, I think we need to take a long, hard look at just how much Manning has benefitted from great pass protection.
First, let’s state the obvious: Manning hasn’t been sacked a lot in his career.
* 1998 — 22 sacks
* 1999 — 14 sacks
* 2000 — 20 sacks
* 2001 — 29 sacks
* 2002 — 23 sacks
* 2003 — 18 sacks
* 2004 — 13 sacks
* 2005 — 17 sacks
* 2006 — 14 sacks
But it’s simply not enough to say the loss of Tarik Glenn will hurt the line play. We pretty much KNOW that to be true, but we have to look a little deeper before deciding whether Manning and the passing game deserve a downtick. Here are some thoughts (probably more talking points than hard answers):
1. The rest of the line remains solid – Ryan Lilja, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott and Ryan Diem are a cohesive, effective unit. It’s not as though the Colts are completely rebuilding their line.
2. Manning has excellent pocket awareness – Manning’s sack totals aren’t merely a byproduct of his line, he’s got great awareness and knows how and when to get rid of the ball
3. Manning has a quick release — See #2
The point here is: Tony Ugoh OR Charlie Johnson don’t have to be as good as Tarik Glenn. They just can’t be sieves (like Ugoh was last night).
For the sake of argument, let’s say the left tackle position IS a major liability. What could we then expect from the Colts passing offense?
1. Consistent pressure rattles ANY QB, including Manning — The few times we’ve seen teams successfully pressure Manning (i.e., sacks, knock downs, pressures); he has looked mortal. Because his baseline is higher than most, mortality isn’t necessarily a fantasy death knell, but if you’re relying on him as your 1st round pick; it could be somewhat tenuous.
2. Joseph Addai and Dallas Clark may lose touches, at the margin — Both Addai and Clark are in line for a lot of targets as you know. But both would be put in the position of having to stay in as blockers more often (and/or be benched on a few more plays for better in-line blocking backs and TEs, respectively)
What do you think about the Colts offense? Not worried at all? Need to see the LT situation develop a bit more over the next few weeks? Would you still draft Manning as QB1 in the late 1st or early 2nd round?
djcolts
Footballguy
What do you think about the Colts offense? From a fan's perspective, I'm not that worried - this team is still more loaded on offense than, say, the 2002 team (1st year under Dungy, with Manning only at about 70% of where he is now, and with a hobbled Edge, and Wayne hadn't really developed yet, etc. - and somehow that team made the playoffs). As a fantasy player, it means that a fully valued stock like the major Colts players (meaning the upside is limited compared to their draft slot) has some more risk than before.
The question is how much? I'd still take Harrison or Wayne in their same draft slots - and I probably wouldn't take Addai until late 1st round (I think he's a little overvalued by some anyway - though seeing De De Dorsey do nothing last night didn't sit well with me, but it is preseason).
Would you still draft Manning as QB1 in the late 1st or early 2nd round?
1. I live in Indy, so Colts players fly off the shelf earlier here than elsewhere, and I won't reach for Colts players in drafts.
2. I tend to be a QBBC guy anyway, so Manning wouldn't be on my team unless he fell much further than usual.
3. If I wanted to get a premium QB, I'd either try to get the last of the "elite" QBs (Manning, Brady, Brees, Bulger, Palmer) or take a chance on McNabb and then get two lower-round backups with "upside."
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Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
Does this mean they're more likely to use a TE to help block? If so, would it be Clark, would they pull Clark in favor of a blocking TE more often, or would they go 2 TE (one to block, clark in pattern) and thus have to keep gonzalez off the field more?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
You could have just quoted me. You could see his his head turning every which way... and thats a simple case of nerves. Same with his is tripping, he is very much jittery out there. But you could also see he had the requisite speed and hand use for a LT. What he didnt have was timing. Which comes with practice and reps. Over time this will also settle down his nerves. And he was "schooled" by Ware. Big whoop, he is supposed to be schooled by Ware.Why does everyone forget what happens to Glenn everytime he faced Merriman or Porter?
Mungo Burrows
Footballguy
You mean this?
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Scary as a Peyton Manning dynasty owner though! With the 27th pick in the NFL draft the Indy Colts select the 2nd or 3rd best LT in the draft!
djcolts
Footballguy
Uh...no. Gosh, that was hard to watch last night.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
And it's been mostly Manning. Will Smith, Kyle Vanden Bosch and Elvis Dumervil would have had at least two sacks each against a quarterback with lesser pocket presence and uncanny ability to get rid of the ball at the last possible second to avoid a sack and still hit the window accurately.
