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Union Members who Vote Republican ... wtf? (1 Viewer)

Trump made the case he was keeping jobs in America.  What good is a union job when it is shipped overseas. That's the attraction. 

 
Aren't unions a lot like government in that their intention is good, and they do a lot of good things, but they just took and took for so long that ultimately they became too expensive and non-competitive?

Or am I thinking of Apple?

 
An increasing number of whites believe the democrats are racist against whites and want to flood the country with mexicans to get rid of them.  This trumps all other issues.  If you feel a political party is racist against you, you arent gonna care if that party promises a $15/hr minimum wage or free education or free health care.  

 
Smack Tripper said:
It's incredibly common amongst union folks. It becomes an "I got mine" mentality and they don't realize they're voting against people who openly plot against them. But they like the short line gain of some tax savings and probably dislike minorities. 
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:lol:  Nobody can stereotype like a modern day Lefty.

 
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in the 2020 election, trump will look at whoever the dems trot out and say it was dem judges that blocked his immigration policy which has hurt jobs. He'll say dems love immgrants more than the hard working people already here. 

 
Higgs said:
The Dems thought it was more important to focus on minorities, illegal aliens, LGBT's and women.  Suffering white laborers didn't make the cut.
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They didn't just not make the cut, they were (and continue to be) openly mocked by the Democratic Party.

If Trump can pull it together and show any kind of competence going forward he could actually pull the rust belt again.

 
Riversco said:
in the 2020 election, trump will look at whoever the dems trot out and say it was dem judges that blocked his immigration policy which has hurt jobs. He'll say dems love immgrants more than the hard working people already here. 
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Plenty of good jobs around here not being filled. Maybe more people should be willing to go where the jobs are instead of complaining about the people who are.

 
Smack Tripper said:
How are the rates and worker protections in right to work states as compared to union states?
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That isn't exactly how right to work works. Plus it is a little more difficult to tell because several states have just recently passed right to work and it is hard to judge if right to work does lower wages. 

 
MarvinTScamper said:
As long as you recognize union leaders are the same ####ers you hate and want to line their pockets, I like it. 
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You do realize that it still costs money for unions to hire/train people. It costs them to fight for their workers rights, and the people that do that need to get paid whether it is the leaders, lawyers, accounts or anyone else.

 
msudaisy26 said:
You do realize that it still costs money for unions to hire/train people. It costs them to fight for their workers rights, and the people that do that need to get paid whether it is the leaders, lawyers, accounts or anyone else.
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And political donations.

 
I am a member of IATSE. And I can freelance non union jobs too. The scale is great. That OT and penalty time are just sweet sweet gravy. Lead calls just fat $$. Most gigs are in air conditioning and I sit and hit cues all day. Or just sit and monitor the system. Or sit and try to stay awake, but that's on those boring corporate gigs who are spending gobs of $$ on union work, and that's a good thing. Because I still will get my scale and more if it wasn't a union gig. But the union gigs are sweeeeeet

 
I talked to my husband about this last night at dinner and he is very involved in his union.

His theory as to why so many union members voted Trump was because unions have been losing power for years now and they feel betrayed by the union and Democrats. So basically it was a spite vote. He also said most of the guys that voted Trump would have voted Democrat if it was anyone other than Hillary or if the Republicans had a traditional politician as their candidate. He is in a small union so the sample size is small. 

 
As the dems have drifted further left I think many Union guys have realized that outside of the whole Union thing they don't have too much in-common with that party...when the dems attack "uneducated whites" many Union guys see that finger being pointed at them...

 
I agree.  The Dems somehow became the LGBT party.  They spend way too many resources on such a small segment of their constituency.  

 
Sabertooth said:
I see a lot of people driving around with Trump stickers and MAGA and all that nonsense on their vehicles.  People I know to be union members.  And yet they vote consistently Republican right on down the line.  With the recent attack on OT laws, they won't be impacted because of their union status.  But why would you vote against your own best interests like this?  It's truly puzzling to me.  I'd love to hear the rationale here.  

The best I can come up with is that bought the whole "He's coming for my guns" BS hook, line, and sinker.  But even still.  Why would you vote to weaken your own livelihood?
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I would gladly vote against my "interests" as defined by you in a lot of cases.

 
drummer said:
I am a member of IATSE. And I can freelance non union jobs too. The scale is great. That OT and penalty time are just sweet sweet gravy. Lead calls just fat $$. Most gigs are in air conditioning and I sit and hit cues all day. Or just sit and monitor the system. Or sit and try to stay awake, but that's on those boring corporate gigs who are spending gobs of $$ on union work, and that's a good thing. Because I still will get my scale and more if it wasn't a union gig. But the union gigs are sweeeeeet
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sweet.  Sounds like working on Wall Street.  

I can see why you union types love wall street...same gig, really.  Overpaid to do jack ####.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
sweet.  Sounds like working on Wall Street.  

I can see why you union types love wall street...same gig, really.  Overpaid to do jack ####.
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I work in the same field as drummer and when we have a gig in a union hotel, we have to hire one union worker for every two technicians we bring in. A vast majority of them are useless and are merely shadows who sit there doing nothing for most of the job. many times they disappear because the hotel double dips them and they do some work elsewhere in the hotel on our dime. Nothing we can do about it unless we can catch them. It's a racket.

eta: That said, union workers in theaters are top notch and always great to work with. It's the flunkies they hire for hotel work that are the problem.

 
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jamny said:
I work in the same field as drummer and when we have a gig in a union hotel, we have to hire one union worker for every two technicians we bring in. A vast majority of them are useless and are merely shadows who sit there doing nothing for most of the job. many times they disappear because the hotel double dips them and they do some work elsewhere in the hotel on our dime. Nothing we can do about it unless we can catch them. It's a racket.

eta: That said, union workers in theaters are top notch and always great to work with. It's the flunkies they hire for hotel work that are the problem.
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I agree.   Whatever positives the Unions brought, they brought some serious negatives along with them.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
No. Whether you are a fan of the union or not, opting out is stupid. You still pay the dues but dont get the benefit of any representation. 
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In Michigan if you opt out of the union they still have to provide full representation. Only thing you lose out on is the job training and apprenticeships.

 
Mario Kart said:
Love them or hate them but unions have a huge impact in how you work today. If not for he unions, jobs/careers, may not have as many benefits as the American worker has now. Get rid of the unions and you think the American worker will be better off? That is lolz. Again, like them or hate them, the unions are largely responsible for the conditions/benefits you are all working with today. 
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I'd say they WERE a significant contributing factor to making employee conditions better.  Like 50-150 years ago.  Now they are just a way to scam money out of the union members so the top union brass can get paid.  Most labor laws the unions successfully and thankfully changed back then are now federal or state law.  Unions have little merit these days IMO.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
sweet.  Sounds like working on Wall Street.  

I can see why you union types love wall street...same gig, really.  Overpaid to do jack ####.
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I will tell you one thing I DON"T do when I am working, Union gig or not: 

I don't hang out here and post throughout the day arguing like say with Wisconsinites about "work" since I never seen one at work, but really because I am at work, and the clients do not pay me to post here while at work. Although I can. I just don't. 

 
Brunell4MVP said:
I'd say they WERE a significant contributing factor to making employee conditions better.  Like 50-150 years ago.  Now they are just a way to scam money out of the union members so the top union brass can get paid.  Most labor laws the unions successfully and thankfully changed back then are now federal or state law.  Unions have little merit these days IMO.
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Your opinion is fine and in some instances, probably, pretty accurate. However, to think that to get rid of unions, those same laws unions helped to enact may than be lessened, outlawed, changed drastically, is also a naive stance. A businesses goal is to make money and they will do anything to make more at the expense of the worker. This notion has been true throughout history. Unions have their place but they do need some self policing... not gotten rid of. 

 
jonessed said:
Most union members are still pro-Democrat.  The ones that voted for Trump are concentrated in areas Obama ignored and Hillary openly mocked.  I can't blame them for voting Trump seeing how Democrats largely treated them with disdain.

Whether or not they stay Republican is now up to Trump.  I don't have a lot of faith in his abilities, but it would be a massive win for Republicans if the rust belt flipped.
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Funny considering the role unions played in actuality creating "The Rust Belt"

 
Mario Kart said:
Your opinion is fine and in some instances, probably, pretty accurate. However, to think that to get rid of unions, those same laws unions helped to enact may than be lessened, outlawed, changed drastically, is also a naive stance. A businesses goal is to make money and they will do anything to make more at the expense of the worker. This notion has been true throughout history. Unions have their place but they do need some self policing... not gotten rid of. 
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Good post. It isn't the unions that need to be policed it is the people in positions power  and that is true in all different aspects. Greed is the root of problem. 

 
Raging weasel said:
In Michigan if you opt out of the union they still have to provide full representation. Only thing you lose out on is the job training and apprenticeships.
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How does this really work in practice though?  I mean you are working every day with guys who are paying dues, I'd imagine there are a lot of comments and stuff to deal with.  

 
Sabertooth said:
How does this really work in practice though?  I mean you are working every day with guys who are paying dues, I'd imagine there are a lot of comments and stuff to deal with.  
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exactly.  You don't just "leave" the union without repercussion.   My buddy in Detroit that worked for the union had to replace the windows of his Toyota truck....a lot.

 
I kind of feel like if everyone else is holding up their end of the bargain and paying dues and you don't that some type retaliation should be expected. Now leaving the union for another job/career I have done that and never had anything happen or heard of someone having that happen.

 
Sabertooth said:
How does this really work in practice though?  I mean you are working every day with guys who are paying dues, I'd imagine there are a lot of comments and stuff to deal with.  
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Probably-I don't know of anyone in my union that has done it. I was just correcting a previous poster that in some states you can opt out.

 
I have strong doubts that unions, as presently constituted, have any relevance and wont be counterproductive to the economic future - and, as a former organizer & shop steward it hurts me to say that - but there is not a doubt in my mind that unions are the single, greatest reason so many of us are at leisure to post on forums at this moment and, watching the unscrupulousness with which corporations treat the value of work slots, that we will need them again as guarantors of the quality of American life in your lifetime. 

 
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wikkidpissah said:
I have strong doubts that unions, as presently constituted, have any relevance and wont be counterproductive to the economic future - and, as a former organizer & shop steward it hurts me to say that - but there is not a doubt in my mind that unions are the single, greatest reason so many of us are at leisure to post on forums at this moment and, watching the unscrupulousness with which corporations treat the value of work slots, that we will need them again as guarantors of the quality of American life in your lifetime. 
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If you have time for a long story which sort of illustrates wikkid's sentiments here, I recommend this new one from Fusion's Hamilton Nolan. I have no idea how we're gonna solve the West Virginia situation in particular and I share wikkid's concerns about the rest of us, too.

 
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