US economy thread (2 Viewers)

[FairWarning]

I employ 10 people, all under that age. They are not taking vacations.

You are part of the problem. Pay those people a living wage.

Two things happen, neither are good for you-

- the rich will always get theirs, a living wage erodes the middle class more. In the long run, technology replaces jobs.

- prices go up and you are no better off than before.

By that logic people these people would be better off getting paid $2/ hour, this wouid ensure they keep their jobs and prices on things would drop like a rock. Very surprising to see these workers not demand this type of pay decrease.

Those jobs are not really meant to be living wage jobs these days. It should be a springboard to a higher skilled job that pays more. I’m a vendor/wholesaler and wonder how people make it working in the grocery business. Definitely no knock on anyone in the business, but it’s a tough grind.

 

[massraider]

Frankly, we could afford to pay them more.

But entry level work in cannabis is basically McDonald's wages. At every level of the industry. By paying people $25/hr, we are heroes. We also have a bonus structure in place, if we get this or that done in the allotted time (no mistakes), we give bonuses. This happens at least once a month. This is a win/win. We get less mistakes, and it's really good for the culture (these bonuses may or may not be cash handed out at the end of the shift. This is literally done because psychologically, getting a hundo as a surprise is much better than getting it in a check later).
We are paying a bit more to keep people. Constantly rotating people in/out of the company is something I am simply not going to be a part of, especially when none of the partners are going to feel this difference. An advantage of being a privately owned company.

We don't pat ourselves on the back for this. As I said, we could afford more. Basically, the bar is set so freaking low for entry level employment that by paying people enough to pay their bills, we inspire loyalty. I am proud of our work culture, but we could do more, I know this.

It seemed to be. I don't think @massraider is saying that his employees don't accrue vacation time, just that they aren't taking "getaway" vacations.

Definitely not.

I have worked in industries the last 30 years that put me in contact with almost exclusively 20-somethings. I am confident that I am exposed to more young people than most people here. Not all, but most. The last time I saw young people making young people money and having a carefree good time was around 2008, and that was in Vegas, where rent was nothing.

This was simply a response to FreeBagel's observation. Where I am, I haven't seen young people with that kind of disposable income.

 

[massraider]

Those jobs are not really meant to be living wage jobs these days.

Yep, and that is the biggest BS that the large corporations have gotten everyone to choke down.

My parents had essentially entry level jobs when they bought a piece of land, built a house, and were raising two kids in the early 80's.

They struggled and sacrificed, it was not easy. But that's not even remotely possible today. And this was in MA

 

[FairWarning]

Frankly, we could afford to pay them more.

But entry level work in cannabis is basically McDonald's wages. At every level of the industry. By paying people $25/hr, we are heroes. We also have a bonus structure in place, if we get this or that done in the allotted time (no mistakes), we give bonuses. This happens at least once a month. This is a win/win. We get less mistakes, and it's really good for the culture (these bonuses may or may not be cash handed out at the end of the shift. This is literally done because psychologically, getting a hundo as a surprise is much better than getting it in a check later).
We are paying a bit more to keep people. Constantly rotating people in/out of the company is something I am simply not going to be a part of, especially when none of the partners are going to feel this difference. An advantage of being a privately owned company.

We don't pat ourselves on the back for this. As I said, we could afford more. Basically, the bar is set so freaking low for entry level employment that by paying people enough to pay their bills, we inspire loyalty. I am proud of our work culture, but we could do more, I know this.

It seemed to be. I don't think @massraider is saying that his employees don't accrue vacation time, just that they aren't taking "getaway" vacations.

Definitely not.

I have worked in industries the last 30 years that put me in contact with almost exclusively 20-somethings. I am confident that I am exposed to more young people than most people here. Not all, but most. The last time I saw young people making young people money and having a carefree good time was around 2008, and that was in Vegas, where rent was nothing.

This was simply a response to FreeBagel's observation. Where I am, I haven't seen young people with that kind of disposable income.

Where do you see the market in 3-5 years? A town by me has 43 licenses to sell. I can’t see half making it.

 

[massraider]

Frankly, we could afford to pay them more.

But entry level work in cannabis is basically McDonald's wages. At every level of the industry. By paying people $25/hr, we are heroes. We also have a bonus structure in place, if we get this or that done in the allotted time (no mistakes), we give bonuses. This happens at least once a month. This is a win/win. We get less mistakes, and it's really good for the culture (these bonuses may or may not be cash handed out at the end of the shift. This is literally done because psychologically, getting a hundo as a surprise is much better than getting it in a check later).
We are paying a bit more to keep people. Constantly rotating people in/out of the company is something I am simply not going to be a part of, especially when none of the partners are going to feel this difference. An advantage of being a privately owned company.

We don't pat ourselves on the back for this. As I said, we could afford more. Basically, the bar is set so freaking low for entry level employment that by paying people enough to pay their bills, we inspire loyalty. I am proud of our work culture, but we could do more, I know this.

It seemed to be. I don't think @massraider is saying that his employees don't accrue vacation time, just that they aren't taking "getaway" vacations.

Definitely not.

I have worked in industries the last 30 years that put me in contact with almost exclusively 20-somethings. I am confident that I am exposed to more young people than most people here. Not all, but most. The last time I saw young people making young people money and having a carefree good time was around 2008, and that was in Vegas, where rent was nothing.

This was simply a response to FreeBagel's observation. Where I am, I haven't seen young people with that kind of disposable income.

Where do you see the market in 3-5 years? A town by me has 43 licenses to sell. I can’t see half making it.

Every state is different

 

[-OZ-]

CPI declining 0.1% in June, small increase of 3% from last June.
Small cap stocks love it.

 

[Desert_Power]

Those jobs are not really meant to be living wage jobs these days.

Yep, and that is the biggest BS that the large corporations have gotten everyone to choke down.

My parents had essentially entry level jobs when they bought a piece of land, built a house, and were raising two kids in the early 80's.

They struggled and sacrificed, it was not easy. But that's not even remotely possible today. And this was in MA

A lot of things about how the economy is managed changed around that time so it's not really surprising how different it is 4 decades later.

 

[culdeus]

One part of the economy that is being left out is people are asked to pay into their own retirement, yet half of people have 0 saved at all. There is stress in understanding that social security likely will be unavailable in the current form for those born much later than 1990.

Our parents generation had cushy pensions to retire on. Those are gone.

 

[Ridgeback]

I'm starting to see that certain industries are certainly hit harder than others. I've been selling SaaS solutions for a good part of the last fifteen years and have never seen a harder time to land a position. The company I previously worked for had gone from a head count of 57 when I was hired in 2021 to 33 when I was laid off in April. Originally I was one of six sales managers, I was one of two before being let go.

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

LinkedIn is a very depressing place to be networking/job hunting. I've had multiple recruiters in the SaaS space tell me they've never seen it this bad.

 

[Ilov80s]

x.com

x.com

Inflation slowed again in June. Unemployment fell.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

For example, how much did we all make in the market today while we just sat around debating how hard young people have it?

So, about yesterday . . .

 

[-OZ-]

There is stress in understanding that social security likely will be unavailable in the current form for those born much later than 1990.

It won’t be gone. Washington needs to get its **** together but it won’t be gone. It actually doesn’t even take that make changes to make it work.

Our parents generation had cushy pensions to retire on. Those are gone.

So, about yesterday . . .

My accounts are up 0.7-1.1% today.

 

[massraider]

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

To your point, certain industries over others. Cannabis is the same way--It is MUCH harder to raise money now than it was for the last 10 years.

Cheap investor money was propping up companies. SO after all these years of cheap cheap money, the lake is finally getting fished out. Companies losing money for years and years.....maybe it would be better if this company was allowed to fail, right? Sure, the people at that zombie company have jobs, but these companies sucking up all the investor money to cover their losses makes it harder for new companies to make their way. And the company losing money is looking to shed jobs anyway.

 

[Keerock]

I'm starting to see that certain industries are certainly hit harder than others. I've been selling SaaS solutions for a good part of the last fifteen years and have never seen a harder time to land a position. The company I previously worked for had gone from a head count of 57 when I was hired in 2021 to 33 when I was laid off in April. Originally I was one of six sales managers, I was one of two before being let go.

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

LinkedIn is a very depressing place to be networking/job hunting. I've had multiple recruiters in the SaaS space tell me they've never seen it this bad.

Are you still looking?

 

[Max Power]

One part of the economy that is being left out is people are asked to pay into their own retirement, yet half of people have 0 saved at all. There is stress in understanding that social security likely will be unavailable in the current form for those born much later than 1990.

Our parents generation had cushy pensions to retire on. Those are gone.

I'll add auto insurance for young men to the list of soul crushing expenses that are new to the up coming generation.

My son turned 18 and is about to go off to college next year. He was insured with my ex wife, but due to her own hardships had to drop him from her policy.

No accidents, no credit issues, but its still $300 a month to add him to my plan.

Little over $400 if he gets it himself. $450 if he uses the city as the address he parks overnight.

He's trying to be a full time student and pick up 10-15 hours a week.

 

[Keerock]

x.com

x.com

Inflation slowed again in June. Unemployment fell.

Did it really though? Washington can make those numbers look like whatever they want. In fact, I believe unemployment numbers in 7 of the last 9 months were adjusted pretty drastically after the fact. Sure looked good on the original report though

 

[Ridgeback]

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

To your point, certain industries over others. Cannabis is the same way--It is MUCH harder to raise money now than it was for the last 10 years.

Cheap investor money was propping up companies. SO after all these years of cheap cheap money, the lake is finally getting fished out. Companies losing money for years and years.....maybe it would be better if this company was allowed to fail, right? Sure, the people at that zombie company have jobs, but these companies sucking up all the investor money to cover their losses makes it harder for new companies to make their way. And the company losing money is looking to shed jobs anyway.

Funny enough, I worked for a weed farm that was based out of Southern Oregon about four years ago while between a real job. My task was to sell to as many of the dispensaries here in Portland as possible. Our weed wan't great, but quite meh. I sold on cost, period.

It blew me away how cheap the product was and how over saturated the market had become. Far too many licenses had been dolled out. I mean, everyone and their dog smoke here, but there's still a ceiling. A good amount was still be shipped out of state as well.

Anyway, my point is I'm really surprised it's taken this long to weed out the zombie companies. No pun intended...

 

[Ridgeback]

I'm starting to see that certain industries are certainly hit harder than others. I've been selling SaaS solutions for a good part of the last fifteen years and have never seen a harder time to land a position. The company I previously worked for had gone from a head count of 57 when I was hired in 2021 to 33 when I was laid off in April. Originally I was one of six sales managers, I was one of two before being let go.

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

LinkedIn is a very depressing place to be networking/job hunting. I've had multiple recruiters in the SaaS space tell me they've never seen it this bad.

Are you still looking?

Absolutely. Theres a few industries I refuse to work in, but yes, I'm very much still looking.

 

[Desert_Power]

x.com

x.com

Inflation slowed again in June. Unemployment fell.

Did it really though? Washington can make those numbers look like whatever they want. In fact, I believe unemployment numbers in 7 of the last 9 months were adjusted pretty drastically after the fact. Sure looked good on the original report though

These type of conspiracy theories are pretty tiresome. Government estimates get revised as time goes on for a variety of reasons in both directions.

 

[SFBayDuck]

One part of the economy that is being left out is people are asked to pay into their own retirement, yet half of people have 0 saved at all. There is stress in understanding that social security likely will be unavailable in the current form for those born much later than 1990.

Our parents generation had cushy pensions to retire on. Those are gone.

Of course pensions are much less common than they used to be, especially in the private sector which made up about half of pensions historically. The fed says 56% of current retirees have pensions, with that number up to 65% for retirees over the age of 65. SS administration puts the numbers for boomers with pensions at between 44-50%. Point being, somewhere around half of current retirees don't have pensions as it is. As for "cushy", I can't vouch for this source but it says the median pension amounts, depending on the source, vary from $11K-$26K a year. That ain't nothing, and I sure wish I have $25K a year coming to me in retirement from a pension, but I'm not sure I'd call it "cushy".

We all have seen the articles that the SS trust fund will run out in 2035, but that doesn't mean SS goes away. It does mean that, based on current projections, benefits would be reduced by about 21%. For those of us in this discussion, that's probably worst case scenario, although as @-OZ- suggested Congress will likely figure it out. There are plenty of options - raise full retirement age, up the annual FICA cap, means testing, etc, and as we don't talk politics in here no point in us having that discussion. But the point being, there are options, and, just like they always do, at the last minute in 2035 congress will almost certainly do something. What that will mean for our kids, who knows......

I do totally agree with your overall sentiment that much of our country is currently undersaved. I don't like averages with finances because they're skewed by the ultrawealthy, but if you look at median savings for those 55-64 it's $185K, and a slight tick up to $200K in the 65-74 range. That ain't a lot and, to your point, that means half of all people in those age ranges have less than that.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I'm starting to see that certain industries are certainly hit harder than others. I've been selling SaaS solutions for a good part of the last fifteen years and have never seen a harder time to land a position. The company I previously worked for had gone from a head count of 57 when I was hired in 2021 to 33 when I was laid off in April. Originally I was one of six sales managers, I was one of two before being let go.

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

LinkedIn is a very depressing place to be networking/job hunting. I've had multiple recruiters in the SaaS space tell me they've never seen it this bad.

Are you still looking?

Absolutely. Theres a few industries I refuse to work in, but yes, I'm very much still looking.

Fellow SaaS guy here . Send me a PM and happy to connect on LI and forward you anything I come across. I'm still getting hit up by recruiters regularly, but definitely less so than in the past.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

I don't want to get this off topic but I work with plenty of young people that have joined the Coast Guard with the sole purpose of doing the min time required to get the GI Bill. Those that do the min of 4 years active duty also qualify for VA home loans which means 0 down and no mortgage insurance.

 

[eoMMan]

The cost of housing just makes that impossible today. For reference this would have been 1990 I think, went from a $25k/yr to $20k.

That 20K a year is now like 50K in today's dollars. If I was 22 years old, and making 50K I could find a place to live in most cities in this country

Most likely with roommates, assuming you are talking about talking a city city (not podunk USA). And a lot 22 year olds either have debt from student loans or are still relying on mommy/daddy.

 

[-OZ-]

No accidents, no credit issues, but its still $300 a month to add him to my plan.

Little over $400 if he gets it himself. $450 if he uses the city as the address he parks overnight.

i have a 19yo and 21yo on my policy. Our total including my wife and I, with 4 vehicles (one brand new 2024) is $358/month.

 

[Desert_Power]

The 23 year old graduated from college a year ago and has been waiting on her boyfriend to graduate before making a job decision. It's muddled up but she is interviewing for a recruiter job in Atlanta that starts at $40k a year. Those of you that live in the ATL can speak to whether you can live on that there or not. I know in Charlotte, NC it would require a roommate or possible two. She told us a year ago she would never be able to afford a house and I laughed at her. Now I'm not so sure she wasn't right.

We are in the suburbs and like I said, my son is priced out of housing making 15-20k more than that. He had two roommates before but was smart to stop throwing money at an apartment room when he can stay here for free in a nicer home with more "amenities". In Atlanta, no chance of buying a home unless you gamble on a old, potentially unsafe area that may be next up in being rejuvenated.

You can't have it all at such a young age. Buying a house in a growing area is a great way to build wealth. Even better if you have roommates to help pay your mortgage.

 

[-OZ-]

The cost of housing just makes that impossible today. For reference this would have been 1990 I think, went from a $25k/yr to $20k.

That 20K a year is now like 50K in today's dollars. If I was 22 years old, and making 50K I could find a place to live in most cities in this country

Most likely with roommates, assuming you are talking about talking a city city (not podunk USA). And a lot 22 year olds either have debt from student loans or are still relying on mommy/daddy.

Oh come on now. I realize Huntsville isn’t LA or NYC (understatement) but you can get a decent apartment here for $1100; (higher end can get towards $3k or more). That gets the $50k earner at 30%.
Roommates are probably still a better scenario overall but it’s manageable.

 

[Ilov80s]

x.com

x.com

Inflation slowed again in June. Unemployment fell.

Did it really though? Washington can make those numbers look like whatever they want. In fact, I believe unemployment numbers in 7 of the last 9 months were adjusted pretty drastically after the fact. Sure looked good on the original report though

These type of conspiracy theories are pretty tiresome. Government estimates get revised as time goes on for a variety of reasons in both directions.

And my subjective view backs this up. I don’t know anyone who wants a job and can’t find one and most businesses I know are hiring.

 

[guru_007]

No accidents, no credit issues, but its still $300 a month to add him to my plan.

Little over $400 if he gets it himself. $450 if he uses the city as the address he parks overnight.

i have a 19yo and 21yo on my policy. Our total including my wife and I, with 4 vehicles (one brand new 2024) is $358/month.

18 year old and 23 year old, 4 vehicles, 2 financed, paying a cool $650/month
Ridiculous. My youngest actually just bought a new vehicle, through the bank of daddy, where I'm floating him an interest free loan so that vehicle is not financed. My 23 year old shopped around last year for insurance on his 2022 Accord and was getting rates near $300/month. I'm charging him $150/month to stay on my policy to help him out.
Really tough for kids today as been mentioned ad nasuem in this thread.
Except of course for my 27 year old daughter who makes more than I do already, and is going house shopping in the $1M neighborhood ffs.
It's becoming a world of have's and have not's.

 

[-OZ-]

It's becoming a world of have's and have not's.

Becoming?

I assume financing is a reason for the price difference. None of our vehicles are financed. The other is probably local, but I’m not sure we’re any less risky here than other places.

 

[guru_007]

It's becoming a world of have's and have not's.

Becoming?

I assume financing is a reason for the price difference. None of our vehicles are financed. The other is probably local, but I’m not sure we’re any less risky here than other places.

If you finance, you need to carry certain minimum protections.
In my case, it doesn't matter too much because if one is financed, you need to carry the same protections on all vehicles (or something like that) but I will be aggressively shopping insurance this month. Insurance costs are out of control.

 

[Doug B]

Those of us with time in the market are doing great.

This is something I think about. And I think it's less age (young adults vs older) than it is about investment income (have it vs. don't).

For those who earn significant investment income: Pretend you've never heard of stocks or investing. How far could you have gotten on strictly your wages alone, from career-beginning to present? How would your life be different if at no point did you ever buy a stock or make an investment?

 

[Gally]

For those who earn significant investment income: Pretend you've never heard of stocks or investing. How far could you have gotten on strictly your wages alone, from career-beginning to present? How would your life be different if at no point did you ever buy a stock or make an investment?

By that do you mean all the money I put in 401K and other investments just went into a savings account instead?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

My daughter and her husband have been married for a year. They are 2 years out of college. He's an accountant at a bank and she's a kindergarten teacher. Combined income is around $120k. They are moving from the DFW area (near us) to 4 hours south because the only housing they can afford in the DFW area are in poor crime and school neighborhoods. That's the net result of this conversation: the income gap is going to cause migration to more rural areas, for those who can afford it. It's sad but reality right now.

How much of this is changing expectations? Who is buying a house in the area they want 2 years out of college? I sure as heck wasn't despite my wife and I doing pretty well out of college landing pretty solid entry level jobs right away. We still rented a one bedroom apartment and saved for 5 years before buying a house, doing essentially zero travel during the time other than driving to visit family (we rented a cheap cabin for a long weekend in the Smokies, which were about an hour and a half away, as our only real vacation during that stretch). We ate out some but not a lot. And even then we only felt comfortable diving into a mortgage when we not only had 5 years of savings but also both got big promotions at the same time (that more than doubled our income).

I feel like crappy houses in shady areas have always been the only real option for 24 year olds with only a year or two of savings, no?

 

[Doug B]

By that do you mean all the money I put in 401K and other investments just went into a savings account instead?

Whatever outcome you like. Socked it aside in the bank, like you say. Or spent more week-to-week and regularly ran through it. Or some other outcome -- the important part is "How do you make out without ever having had investment income?"

 

[-OZ-]

By that do you mean all the money I put in 401K and other investments just went into a savings account instead?

Whatever outcome you like. Socked it aside in the bank, like you say. Or spent more week-to-week and regularly ran through it. Or some other outcome -- the important part is "How do you make out without ever having had investment income?"

It’s a good question.
For me, a large part of the reason I joined the Army was the military pension. So we’d probably be okay. But without that, it would be rough.
Would have had more fun in our early adulthood if I wasn’t trying to invest along the way.

 

[dkp993]

Those jobs are not really meant to be living wage jobs these days.

Yep, and that is the biggest BS that the large corporations have gotten everyone to choke down.

My parents had essentially entry level jobs when they bought a piece of land, built a house, and were raising two kids in the early 80's.

They struggled and sacrificed, it was not easy. But that's not even remotely possible today. And this was in MA

Yes, and no. Entry-level has a lot of different connotations that don’t necessarily apply to everything. An entry-level job in manufacturing or at the railroad, etc., is very different than the entry level job as a cashier at McDonald’s or stocking person at Target. I highly doubt your parents were McDonald’s cashiers who bought a piece of land and built a home.

I think entry-level is really at least two different things. Into the workforce or entry into an industry. An entry-level computer programmer, for example, is into an industry. Being a cashier at McDonald’s is it entry-level into the workforce.

 

[dkp993]

One part of the economy that is being left out is people are asked to pay into their own retirement, yet half of people have 0 saved at all. There is stress in understanding that social security likely will be unavailable in the current form for those born much later than 1990.

Our parents generation had cushy pensions to retire on. Those are gone.

I'll add auto insurance for young men to the list of soul crushing expenses that are new to the up coming generation.

My son turned 18 and is about to go off to college next year. He was insured with my ex wife, but due to her own hardships had to drop him from her policy.

No accidents, no credit issues, but its still $300 a month to add him to my plan.

Little over $400 if he gets it himself. $450 if he uses the city as the address he parks overnight.

He's trying to be a full time student and pick up 10-15 hours a week.

Though this is nothing new. My high school job working at Jack-in-the-Box was done solely so I could pay for my car insurance. As my parents couldn’t afford to pay it. And while I was on their insurance, I still had to cover the cost. This was the early 90s so I can’t remember how much but it was a massive number ( for a HS kid), I think three or 400 a month.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Random Questions for anyone that wants to respond

-Do you feel guilty about doing well and looking at 75% of the population that might be struggling a little bit?
-Do you feel some solace that you did things right when you were younger anticipating hard times ahead even if you didn't know the exact obstacles?
-Did you learn anything from fellow FBGs on here by just reading thru the threads? I got a lot of good investment info from many when I was in my 20s and early 30s on here and I'm not gonna lie, it's helped tremendously. Yes we could be doing even better but we managed to find a decent split between plan for the future and live in the NOW

 

[dkp993]

Random Questions for anyone that wants to respond

-Do you feel guilty about doing well and looking at 75% of the population that might be struggling a little bit?- nope. I’ve spent 30yrs working between 60-100 hrs a week while getting no assistance from anyone. I’ve grinded and earned everything I’ve got.
-Do you feel some solace that you did things right when you were younger anticipating hard times ahead even if you didn't know the exact obstacles?- I made plenty of mistakes along the way and was stupid with my money in my 20’s and 30’s so can’t say I did a good job anticipating anything. But I find solace in that I worked my *** off to get out of any financial mistakes I made along the way.
-Did you learn anything from fellow FBGs on here by just reading thru the threads? I got a lot of good investment info from many when I was in my 20s and early 30s on here and I'm not gonna lie, it's helped tremendously. Yes we could be doing even better but we managed to find a decent split between plan for the future and live in the NOW- CYDY baby. I made some money off that stock! Lol

Answers above in bold.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Unions still have dope health care and pension packages.

People just don’t want to work.

 

[-OZ-]

Random Questions for anyone that wants to respond

-Do you feel guilty about doing well and looking at 75% of the population that might be struggling a little bit?
-Do you feel some solace that you did things right when you were younger anticipating hard times ahead even if you didn't know the exact obstacles?
-Did you learn anything from fellow FBGs on here by just reading thru the threads? I got a lot of good investment info from many when I was in my 20s and early 30s on here and I'm not gonna lie, it's helped tremendously. Yes we could be doing even better but we managed to find a decent split between plan for the future and live in the NOW

No. We sacrificed and give back.

Absolutely.

Yes, although I don’t remember what now.

 

[Grahamburn]

A 23 year old should have a roommate or two. I'm skeptical that any young 20 year old is any worse off than we were in the mid 90's.

For real?

A pint of domestic beer is like $6 right now.

And new McDonalds workers make 20 bucks and hour.

I'd be willing to bet McDonald's payroll expenses have decreased or are at least net with all the automation they're using. Grocery stores with self checkout. On and on. Increase the minimum wage? Ok, we'll just employ fewer people.

Luckily rich folks have 5 Guys delivered to their homes for $32 so these kids can have jobs.

 

[Keerock]

I'm starting to see that certain industries are certainly hit harder than others. I've been selling SaaS solutions for a good part of the last fifteen years and have never seen a harder time to land a position. The company I previously worked for had gone from a head count of 57 when I was hired in 2021 to 33 when I was laid off in April. Originally I was one of six sales managers, I was one of two before being let go.

From what I surmise, with the higher interest rates there is much less VC money to pump the system, and companies are contracting at a rapid rate and have been for quite some time.

LinkedIn is a very depressing place to be networking/job hunting. I've had multiple recruiters in the SaaS space tell me they've never seen it this bad.

Are you still looking?

Absolutely. Theres a few industries I refuse to work in, but yes, I'm very much still looking.

Fellow SaaS guy here . Send me a PM and happy to connect on LI and forward you anything I come across. I'm still getting hit up by recruiters regularly, but definitely less so than in the past.

In SaaS as well and can possibly help

Although curious about the industries you refuse to work in...

 

[SFBayDuck]

Random Questions for anyone that wants to respond

Interesting, I'll play.....

-Do you feel guilty about doing well and looking at 75% of the population that might be struggling a little bit?

• No, but I certainly have sympathy for many because....

-Do you feel some solace that you did things right when you were younger anticipating hard times ahead even if you didn't know the exact obstacles?

• I didn't! My 20s I was a financial mess, although I managed to get myself through college, get a job, etc. But I made every mistake with money, especially with credit cards. Didn't start saving in 401Ks until probably the end of that decade, and even then a paltry amount. Then came my 30s, got married, had a kid....and then a cascade of problems: laid off in the middle of the GFC, foreclosure soon after, and divorce a few years after that. Throw in constant health issues with my daughter, and that's a decade of my life that I try not to spend a lot of time thinking about. It wasn't until my 40s that I started buckling down with my career, my savings, and......

-Did you learn anything from fellow FBGs on here by just reading thru the threads? I got a lot of good investment info from many when I was in my 20s and early 30s on here and I'm not gonna lie, it's helped tremendously. Yes we could be doing even better but we managed to find a decent split between plan for the future and live in the NOW

• Educating myself on finances! A lot of it came out of a renewed interest during the pandemic days here on the board. I've always been interested, used to go with my dad to his stock broker meetings when I was a teenager, and thought I'd go that route for a career. Wish I had followed that thread earlier and invested more and more wisely in my younger days, I'd be retired now! But I'm catching up, I (obviously) love chatting about it in the 3-4 threads here around the topic. Of course on the flip side, all of the stocks at the very bottom of my trading account (because they lost all/most of their value) came from tips I got here - I'm looking at you BLDP, QS, TRUFF, HGEN, PLGNF. So I don't listen to those tips very often anymore! But I do my own research and sometimes bring it here to ask for thoughts/opinions.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Although curious about the industries you refuse to work in...

Lloyd Dobler explains it

 

[massraider]

Yes, and no. Entry-level has a lot of different connotations that don’t necessarily apply to everything. An entry-level job in manufacturing or at the railroad, etc., is very different than the entry level job as a cashier at McDonald’s or stocking person at Target. I highly doubt your parents were McDonald’s cashiers who bought a piece of land and built a home.

OK,. Take McDonald's out of it.

How about the manager of the machine shop. How about the guy running the kitchen at a restaurant? Running the entire staff in a kitchen, place does 2 mill a year. Should that guy NOT be able to support a wife and kid? Forget buying a house, may as well ask for a unicorn. 50 hours a week, management, in the wealthiest country that has ever existed. That guy should not expect to be able to start a family?

How about a truck driver? Any kind of driver? These jobs take less skill than manufacturing? Than the railroad? Coal miner?

 

[Gally]

By that do you mean all the money I put in 401K and other investments just went into a savings account instead?

Whatever outcome you like. Socked it aside in the bank, like you say. Or spent more week-to-week and regularly ran through it. Or some other outcome -- the important part is "How do you make out without ever having had investment income?"

I probably would have put away the same money as savings as I did from the start. I maxed out my 401K from day one of my first job out of college so I was intent on saving for retirement. Based on that I assume I would have done a similar amount as just savings for the same purpose but it wouldn't be nearly as much of a nut now so instead of looking to retire in 5 years (when I turn 57) I probably would have to keep working for a bit longer. I don't have any idea what the difference is between my current retirement savings accounts if it was just strict savings account interest vs 401K/ROTH/IRA/etc accounts that I have been investing in.

So based on that I don't think I would have been very much different in my lifestyle.

 

[Gally]

Do you feel guilty about doing well and looking at 75% of the population that might be struggling a little bit?

Not one bit. I worked hard and was smart about what I did. Why should I feel guilty?

Do you feel some solace that you did things right when you were younger anticipating hard times ahead even if you didn't know the exact obstacles?

I am not sure what this is really asking. I feel I have been lucky to have had a good upbringing that taught me work ethic and allowed me to pursue an education that lead to quality jobs and a quality life. I knew things would be difficult at times but never overspent or lived beyond my means while having an eye to the future and planning accordingly. Again, I am not really sure what this question means.

Did you learn anything from fellow FBGs on here by just reading thru the threads?

I have learned from a lot of people along the way......FBG included. Probably the biggest piece of advice that I received when first starting out was to put in as much as I could into my 401K from day #1 and then not worrying about it. Put it into the most aggressive funds I could and not worry about the ups and downs and look at downs as just buying on sale. That eventually the market will grow and knowing I didn't need if for 30 years I shouldn't worry about it. More like a set it and forget mentality. Now that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I am now needing similar advice on when to back off and start to get more conservative and how to do that. Following the "I want to retire soon" thread has been helpful on that front being only 5 years away from that elusive retirement date.

 

[SFBayDuck]

For those who earn significant investment income: Pretend you've never heard of stocks or investing. How far could you have gotten on strictly your wages alone, from career-beginning to present? How would your life be different if at no point did you ever buy a stock or make an investment?

To truly build wealth you can't just have income, even high and increasing income, because most people will just let their lifestyle inflate with it. You've got to build equity to build wealth - in stocks, in your own business, in real estate, somewhere. Or another way to look at it is that it's very hard to truly build wealth just trading your time for money, it's much easier if you can let your money work for you.

Of course the flip side of your question is if I had just spent all of the money I invested over the past several years, I'd have a lot more memories of cool trips (I'm not much into "stuff")! That's where we get into the memory dividend concept from the Die With Zero book. I said no to a few destination weddings in my 20s and early 30s that I still regret.

I'm trying to instill into my daughter a balance. Be smart and invest 10-20% of your income, from the start. You get a raise or a bonus, treat yourself some and put some of that away. But don't go all FIRE crazy and save 50% and miss out on the things you should be doing (might only be able to do) when you are younger.

 

[Keerock]

Although curious about the industries you refuse to work in...

Lloyd Dobler explains it

Sweet... turns out I work for a company that provides a SaaS solution for gyms specializing in kickboxing!