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USA Shootings (6 Viewers)

Stealthycat said:
and I'll agree with you on closing felons having guns - there is a lot more discussion on what qualifies a person to have their Constitutional Rights taken though and it better be something good but yes, I agree it should happen to the people that are danger to others

not one gun owners wants the dangerous and/or mentally ill to have guns nor the felons and hardened criminals. Everyone agree's on that, what separates my side is that attacking with laws law abiding citizens isn't the answer. Never has been 
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If everyone agrees on that, why don't we have universal background check requirements and why hasn't the domestic violence boyfriend loophole been closed?

 
Stealthycat said:
well first off, you're more likely to die on a bicycle than from a mass shooting, right ? fear of mass shooting is really irrational isn't it ? 

you are right - people who wish to do mass harm are different because they're mentally ill, often diagnosed.  Crimes of passion and domestic abuse and drugs ring up with along with most of gun violence you're right

"Penalties for illegally obtaining or carrying a weapon"

do you think that stops gun violence? You think criminals would REALLY stop with penalties for illegally obtaining and carrying?
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back to the "we shouldn't have laws because criminals don't obey laws" argument.   

laws work, comrade.   they don't work 100% of the time, but they work better than anarchy.  and laws apply to all citizens.

 
Stealthycat said:
and I'll agree with you on closing felons having guns - there is a lot more discussion on what qualifies a person to have their Constitutional Rights taken though and it better be something good but yes, I agree it should happen to the people that are danger to others

not one gun owners wants the dangerous and/or mentally ill to have guns nor the felons and hardened criminals. Everyone agree's on that, what separates my side is that attacking with laws law abiding citizens isn't the answer. Never has been 
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Mentally ill people can be law abiding, comrade.

 
Henry Ford said:
If everyone agrees on that, why don't we have universal background check requirements and why hasn't the domestic violence boyfriend loophole been closed?
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I am not familiar with what a "universal background check requirement" is.  When I buy my guns at the store, they run a background check, is this for guns bought through private parties?

Never heard of the domestic violence boyfriend loophole before either, but it sounds reasonable that it would be closed.

 
abbottjamesr said:
Am i missing an inside joke with the comrade comments?
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SC relies heavily on NRA propaganda for his arguments. The NRA has been shown to have been heavily influenced by Russian money, with the goal of controlling the votes of politicians and creating division.  Although he continues to argue for guns from a constitutional rights perspective, ignoring the 230 years of evolution of citizen-owned weapons, he refuses to acknowledge that the NRA went from being heavily in favor of gun control and training to becoming a lobbyist for Russian interests and gun manufacturers.   He continues to source nearly all of his material from the NRA and NRA-backed studies.

 
abbottjamesr said:
I am not familiar with what a "universal background check requirement" is.  When I buy my guns at the store, they run a background check, is this for guns bought through private parties?

Never heard of the domestic violence boyfriend loophole before either, but it sounds reasonable that it would be closed.
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You'd think so, but Klobuchar introduced a bill in 2017.  

Yes, universal means background checks for any transfer of ownership of a firearm including private parties.

 
-fish- said:
SC relies heavily on NRA propaganda for his arguments. The NRA has been shown to have been heavily influenced by Russian money, with the goal of controlling the votes of politicians and creating division.  Although he continues to argue for guns from a constitutional rights perspective, ignoring the 230 years of evolution of citizen-owned weapons, he refuses to acknowledge that the NRA went from being heavily in favor of gun control and training to becoming a lobbyist for Russian interests and gun manufacturers.   He continues to source nearly all of his material from the NRA and NRA-backed studies.
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Gotcha, thanks.

The NRA can burn, but I would like to keep my guns if possible.

 
Henry Ford said:
You'd think so, but Klobuchar introduced a bill in 2017.  

Yes, universal means background checks for any transfer of ownership of a firearm including private parties.
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I couldn't find the exact bill, but I found a speech she gave in 2017 laying out some of the details and it sounded reasonable.  It didn't mention anything crazy like limiting ammo to 20 rounds purchased per month or banning certain firearms.  

 
abbottjamesr said:
I couldn't find the exact bill, but I found a speech she gave in 2017 laying out some of the details and it sounded reasonable.  It didn't mention anything crazy like limiting ammo to 20 rounds purchased per month or banning certain firearms.  
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The public wants these things.  Lobbyists like the NRA do not.

 
Henry Ford said:
The public wants these things.  Lobbyists like the NRA do not.
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In the other forums I read, it sure sounds like the NRA has been weakened recently as more gun owners are trying to find other groups to join.  Maybe the power being fractured into smaller organizations will help allow sensible legislation to pass.

One of Democracy's flaws is the tyranny of the majority.  The public should not always speak for everyone.  In general I think states should handle most gun laws and leave the Feds to maintaining a minimum level of restrictions. 

 
squistion said:
"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics."

- Mark Twain paraphrasing Benjamin Disraeli.

-
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“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”

― Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle

 
Henry Ford said:
If everyone agrees on that, why don't we have universal background check requirements and why hasn't the domestic violence boyfriend loophole been closed?
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we do have background checks - domestic violence and taking away Constitutional rights is a topic that needs talked about more than 1 sentence to fully understand what's being talked about

Henry Ford said:
Yes, universal means background checks for any transfer of ownership of a firearm including private parties.
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because the Fed Govt doesn't need to know who has butcher knives, they don't need to force everyone by threat of arrest to keep their household poisons locked up or their swimming pools and they don't need to know my guns either

how would it help Henry Ford ?

 
Henry Ford said:
The public wants these things.  Lobbyists like the NRA do not.
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I asked before and there was silence

How did we ascend to almost every state now (if not all) having concealed weapons licenses, concealed without licenses and stand ground laws? 

the public wanted all that, didn't they ? they're not afraid of guns like anti-gun people are - they want the ability to choose self defense and a gun. Nothing more, nothing less and liberal Democrats will fight hard to keep them unarmed and victims. 

that's what Democrats want

 
Stealthycat said:
no, he does it to try and irritate me .... he loves calling people liars too and the moderators? they allow the name calling and so for the most part I just ignore his ranting
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When you lie and I show that you are lying and ask you stop, there is really nothing for the moderators to do, since I back up my proof of your lies with facts. 

I have not called you any names.  I just repeatedly ask you to stop lying.  This sounds like delusions and paranoia.   Perhaps you should seek help from a mental health professional.   With so many guns, you should be cautious about your mental well-being.   

 
Stealthycat said:
I asked before and there was silence

How did we ascend to almost every state now (if not all) having concealed weapons licenses, concealed without licenses and stand ground laws? 

the public wanted all that, didn't they ? they're not afraid of guns like anti-gun people are - they want the ability to choose self defense and a gun. Nothing more, nothing less and liberal Democrats will fight hard to keep them unarmed and victims. 

that's what Democrats want
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I literally just bought a .357 magnum today.  I'm not a Democrat, but I sure vote for many of them.

You're way off base.

 
Stealthycat said:
we do have background checks - domestic violence and taking away Constitutional rights is a topic that needs talked about more than 1 sentence to fully understand what's being talked about

because the Fed Govt doesn't need to know who has butcher knives, they don't need to force everyone by threat of arrest to keep their household poisons locked up or their swimming pools and they don't need to know my guns either

how would it help Henry Ford ?
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We do not have universal background checks, and any thoughts of identifying perpetrators and keeping guns out of their hands, like you suggest, are impossible without them.

 
Stealthycat said:
so you are ok with tens of millions of AR15's circulating around in the hands of legal gun owners ? hi cap magazine/clips? silencers? bump stocks? 

no - you want them banned. don't you ?
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Nope.  Straw man.     

As far as I know, there has never been an assault weapon ban with a confiscation component.  I'm in favor of banning the manufacture and sale of assault weapons.   I'm in favor of prohibiting the sale of high capacity magazines.   Hell, if the Supreme Court would allow it I'd be in favor of banning the manufacture and sale of all semi-automatic weapons.   But not once have I ever said weapons should be confiscated.  

I've posted what I support as far as gun regulation dozens of times, but you continue to misrepresent it so it will fit your NRA talking points.

You're just lying again.  

 
It must be really depressing when you find out that most of your heroes are liars and conmen.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/02/nra-congressional-inquiry-illegal-coordination/

A joint congressional inquiry is demanding that National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre hand over internal documents showing whether the NRA made “illegal, excessive, and unreported in-kind donations” to the campaigns of Donald Trump and several GOP Senate candidates.
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-fish- said:
When you lie and I show that you are lying and ask you stop, there is really nothing for the moderators to do, since I back up my proof of your lies with facts. 

I have not called you any names.  I just repeatedly ask you to stop lying.  This sounds like delusions and paranoia.   Perhaps you should seek help from a mental health professional.   With so many guns, you should be cautious about your mental well-being.   
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I don't like the name calling but it makes you feel good, so continue. I have thick skin. 

 
Henry Ford said:
We do not have universal background checks, and any thoughts of identifying perpetrators and keeping guns out of their hands, like you suggest, are impossible without them.
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go buy a gun at a store and if they don't background check you by some means, they're breaking the law right ?

and no - when you have criminals who steal guns and get them black market etc, my giving my brother a .22 rifle has no bearing at all on crime and the Fed Govt doesn't need to know. 

 
Stealthycat said:
go buy a gun at a store and if they don't background check you by some means, they're breaking the law right ?

and no - when you have criminals who steal guns and get them black market etc, my giving my brother a .22 rifle has no bearing at all on crime and the Fed Govt doesn't need to know. 
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Go on....

 
Stealthycat said:
no I am not

Democrats are anti-gun - look to any anti-gun legislation and tell me who's sponsoring and voting for it. 95% Democrats if not more. Look it up, its true. 
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Are universal background checks anti-gun?  They poll around 90% of the public in favor.  That's a lot of Democrats.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
It must be really depressing when you find out that most of your heroes are liars and conmen.
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because there has never been illegal contributions to Democrats before right ?

they're an organization, they are going to make mistakes ........... and who said heroes? not me - and FYI there are a lot of liars in big organizations and all politicians lie. Reality 

 
I'll agree to register my guns ..... when the Fed Govt treats all the other weapons people use the same way

Register all your knives, hammers, ball bats .......... anything that can be used as a weapon.

wait now, don't call me crazy ......... more people are killed with knives every year than rifles, right? then shotguns right? So everyone registering all their knives would stop those knife crimes, right ?

 
Stealthycat said:
because there has never been illegal contributions to Democrats before right ?

they're an organization, they are going to make mistakes ........... and who said heroes? not me - and FYI there are a lot of liars in big organizations and all politicians lie. Reality 
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It's interesting that you assumed I was addressing you.

 
Stealthycat said:
yes
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Setting aside you not being able to stay on topic again, if universal background checks are anti-gun, how is it that they poll at 90% support in the United States of only democrats want "anti-gun" legislation?  Do you think 90% of Americans are Democrats?

 
Stealthycat said:
no I am not

Democrats are anti-gun - look to any anti-gun legislation and tell me who's sponsoring and voting for it. 95% Democrats if not more. Look it up, its true. 
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Women are pro-abortion--look at abortions around the country and tell me who's getting them. 99.9% women if not more.

 
Stealthycat said:
I'll agree to register my guns ..... when the Fed Govt treats all the other weapons people use the same way

Register all your knives, hammers, ball bats .......... anything that can be used as a weapon.

wait now, don't call me crazy ......... more people are killed with knives every year than rifles, right? then shotguns right? So everyone registering all their knives would stop those knife crimes, right ?
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What does a gun do other than shoot things?  Can it slice a loaf of bread?  I suppose you could hammer a nail with it.  Maybe you could open a beer with it.  

I could beat you to death with a purple dildo.  That doesn't mean that I should have to get a permit and register it.   Do you honestly not recognize that a gun is different than other objects because it is designed to be a weapon?    

Just repeating talking points again.   Next up, deflection and lying.

 
Stealthycat said:
no I am not

Democrats are anti-gun - look to any anti-gun legislation and tell me who's sponsoring and voting for it. 95% Democrats if not more. Look it up, its true. 
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Stealthy.  I’ve tried to teach you this point time and time again yet you continue to do it.  These absolute statement you make are distracting and take away from any point you make.  I’ll try again but my faith in your abilities to learn said point are almost completely diminished.  

Saying things like you’ve made better life decisions and then everyone here....

Democrats are anti-gun… 

Weak border security…

This is painting with an awfully wide brush.  Not every Democrat is anti-gun, you have not made better life choices than every single person here, border security is not weak.   

Do you see what I’m getting at. Absolute statements are almost never true. Next time try something like.... most Democrats seem to be anti-gun....While I’m not perfect I feel like I’ve great choices in life.  

I’m really just trying to help you here as I appreciate your continued engagement in an out numbered environment, I only want to help you have better discussions.   

 
Stealthycat said:
I'll agree to register my guns ..... when the Fed Govt treats all the other weapons people use the same way

Register all your knives, hammers, ball bats .......... anything that can be used as a weapon.

wait now, don't call me crazy ......... more people are killed with knives every year than rifles, right? then shotguns right? So everyone registering all their knives would stop those knife crimes, right ?
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Big difference here in my opinion is that guns are the only thing you mentioned here that were originally designed and built for 1 specific purpose and one purpose alone, as a weapon to kill. Like bombs it's inherent in the "dna" of the item itself.  Bats, hammers, knives, etc etc etc are all items that are not being used for their originally designed or intended purpose when they are used in that capacity.  

Guns are dangerous and should be treated differently because their only intended purpose is to kill something.  

 
-fish- said:
Setting aside you not being able to stay on topic again, if universal background checks are anti-gun, how is it that they poll at 90% support in the United States of only democrats want "anti-gun" legislation?  Do you think 90% of Americans are Democrats?
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Also, I may have mentioned this, I’m routinely referred to as the quintessential member of the liberal echo chamber in this forum and I bought a gun that fires rounds that leave an exit hole the size of a turkey pot pie today. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Also, I may have mentioned this, I’m routinely referred to as the quintessential member of the liberal echo chamber in this forum and I bought a gun that fires rounds that leave an exit hole the size of a turkey pot pie today. 
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You're just trying to cover up how liberal you are. In reality you're really frightened of your gun, since everyone who supports gun control is afraid of guns.  It's people with bunkers, dogs, gates and security systems that don't live in fear.

 
Stealthycat said:
yes

the Fed Govt doesn't need that information from me (how many guns I have, how much ammunition, etc etc)  and I will not budge or give an inch on it 

why would they need that information ? logically there is only one reason - confiscation later on. No thanks -fish- history doesn't lie

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/kopel-catastrophic-consequences.htm
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That opinion piece is some of the most disjointed and crazy nonsense you've ever posted, and that's saying something.   Oh, and no surprise the source of the article is the NRA.

 
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Henry Ford said:
This.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/751923-if-you-were-going-to-buy-a-new-gun-what-would-you-get/?do=findComment&comment=21692941
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Heh.  I almost had a Ruger .357 for free a few years back (no idea what model).  

Long story but it belonged to my uncle who had passed away.  I was "storing" it so that my alcoholic cousin (who was also in a extremely volatile relationship) didn't have access to it.   

It would have been really stupid to keep it.  My uncle had bought it from his brother-in-law who had died a few years before.  No clue where the hell the gun was before that or if it was registered etc.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Heh.  I almost had a Ruger .357 for free a few years back (no idea what model).  

Long story but it belonged to my uncle who had passed away.  I was "storing" it so that my alcoholic cousin (who was also in a extremely volatile relationship) didn't have access to it.   

It would have been really stupid to keep it.  My uncle had bought it from his brother-in-law who had died a few years before.  No clue where the hell the gun was before that or if it was registered etc.
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Do you know what barrel length?

Do you know if the current owner wants to sell it?

 
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The GP100 4.2” barrel is, as near as I can tell, the most perfect mass produced revolver ever made. 

 
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