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USA Shootings (1 Viewer)

Stealthycat said:
how would you answer ?

because that's really what the anti-gun side suggests .... pass a law/rule impacts 20 million people negatively, to stop 25 wackos every year ...... and the anti-gun side says heck yes, that's reasonable

when applying SAME logic and reason to other social issues why can't we get the same answer ?
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I have no concern whatsoever about “negatively” impacting gun owners to a small degree.

I have no concern whatsoever about “negatively” impacting drivers and drinkers to a small degree.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I’m not sure what I’m arguing for or if I’m arguing for anything, I’m just saying the very point you're making leads to a conclusion of yes they should be banned.

If this was 1889 people would be pointing out the killing being done by the KKK and similar groups with Winchesters and Remingtons and Colts.

My problem is I view myself as a Constitutionalist, but the 2nd Amendment is horribly written and I am absolutely dead set positive the Founders would be sickened by this result.
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The gun nuts love to say how the constitution can't be changed yet many are the same people who will be offended by Players protesting the anthem and trying to stop their constitutional rights. I'm good if people want a handgun for home protection and in fact talking to people of law enforcement and some military friends its safe to own a handgun in case need to be used rather then a rife or AR of some sort unless in an area then isn't populated. A hand gun if it hits the intended person and penetrates through them may stop at the wall. A rile bullet will go through a house and possible hit someone on the street do to the power it has. 

I also have zero issue of shotguns/rifles and crossbows etc for hunting either. What I am against is the ####### in Texas having an AK 47. There is no need to have such a weapon. All these clowns saying to use to revolt against the government. Really you and what army that is untrained and will be reacting on emotion and nothing else? Dangerous combenation that will result in disaster for you. Half these clowns couldn't hump 20 miles with 80LBs of gear on. 

 
huthut said:
Single men who have never had a girlfriend are banned from buying guns. A common thread between the alt right and these shooters is they are all complete losers in real life.
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I half joked that we should take the guns away from civilian males.  

 
The time for common-sense gun laws was probably 10-15 years ago.

Now?  It doesn't matter.  The gun nuts are correct - none of the proposed measures would have stopped these shootings. 

We live in a gun culture - and the only way to change that is through drastic measures.  We did not have enough leaders who were willing to back common-sense laws, and we certainly don't have enough leaders to make the tough, but necessary, decisions now.

 
KarmaPolice said:
The SC ruled that handguns are protected, so I don't know why the rhetoric is they are coming for all guns.  Actually, yes I do.  
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the SC can change that, and they can also protect rifles and semi-auto rifles too

again - a ruling or law will not stop people from murdering others and isn't that REALLY the ultimate goal here ? 

 
Sinn Fein said:
The time for common-sense gun laws was probably 10-15 years ago.

Now?  It doesn't matter.  The gun nuts are correct - none of the proposed measures would have stopped these shootings. 

We live in a gun culture - and the only way to change that is through drastic measures.  We did not have enough leaders who were willing to back common-sense laws, and we certainly don't have enough leaders to make the tough, but necessary, decisions now.
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We don't have enough leaders with Morales. All of them take blood money from NRA and others to vote in favor of the gun business not what's right for the American people. Until we outlaw politicians taking money from these #######s nothing will ever get done 

 
Sinn Fein said:
The time for common-sense gun laws was probably 10-15 years ago.

Now?  It doesn't matter.  The gun nuts are correct - none of the proposed measures would have stopped these shootings. 

We live in a gun culture - and the only way to change that is through drastic measures.  We did not have enough leaders who were willing to back common-sense laws, and we certainly don't have enough leaders to make the tough, but necessary, decisions now.
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how many tens of millions of gun owners are there ? 

if we were the problem - you'd know it, we'd be killing thousands of people every day wouldn't we ?

the problem is the wackos that want to murder others - a few dozen a year pop up and do their evil and you want to impact tens of millions of law abiding people in hopes of stopping a few dozen that you cannot even guarantee proposed laws would impact ?

who's being radical here ?

 
Stealthycat said:
WDIK2 said:
Responsible gun owners should be at the absolute forefront of trying to do something and come up with solutions.  I disagree with @[icon] on some things, but he is trying to do something.  Are you?
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like "do what" exactly ?
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Stop contributing to the NRA.  Contact your state representative and advocate for magazine capacity restrictions.  Ask for better background checks for purchasing firearms.  Ask for training to be required before purchasing firearms.  That training could also act as a psych eval.  If you don't like those come up with "something" yourself.

Your reply was almost perfect.  When the pendulum swings too far the other way, it will be because responsible gun owners like yourself did nothing to contribute to a solution.

I expect your reply to be something like, "but, but, but how is that going to STOP these killings.  The bad guys will still (get guns, use bombs, use trucks, use shotguns, use knives/axes/pointy sticks) "

 
Stealthycat said:
how many tens of millions of gun owners are there ? 

if we were the problem - you'd know it, we'd be killing thousands of people every day wouldn't we ?

the problem is the wackos that want to murder others - a few dozen a year pop up and do their evil and you want to impact tens of millions of law abiding people in hopes of stopping a few dozen that you cannot even guarantee proposed laws would impact ?

who's being radical here ?
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Sure - and how often do you hear the phrase - the "few ruin it for the majority"

Gun culture needs to end.  Full stop.  The notion that guns are toys or entertainment needs to stop.  If you want to hunt - buy a single-shot rifle, and aim really well.  

 
WDIK2 said:
Stop contributing to the NRA.  Contact your state representative and advocate for magazine capacity restrictions.  Ask for better background checks for purchasing firearms.  Ask for training to be required before purchasing firearms.  That training could also act as a psych eval.  If you don't like those come up with "something" yourself.

Your reply was almost perfect.  When the pendulum swings too far the other way, it will be because responsible gun owners like yourself did nothing to contribute to a solution.

I expect your reply to be something like, "but, but, but how is that going to STOP these killings.  The bad guys will still (get guns, use bombs, use trucks, use shotguns, use knives/axes/pointy sticks) "
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I love the responsible gun owners rhetoric because half these guys don't like the laws proposed because they probably aren't responsible and the laws we propose would prevent them from owning it. This doesn't go for every responsible gun owner but I remember a neighbor who bragged about this but kept his gun unlocked and no safe. His oldest son 13 picked it up one day and dad yelled at him spooked him so much he dropped the gun that went off hit dad straight in the Family Jewels. Drs couldn't save the Jewels. I laughed so hard because the dude bragged so much about this. and then gets shot himself and loses his manhood because he wasn't the gun owner he said he was. A friend of my hand a neighbor same way but hod no holster for his handgun and went off and shot himself in the ###. 

Both incidents are of guys bragging about being responsible with a gun but showed zero responsibility. The gun owners don't want to say anything because it'll inconvenience them but quietly frankly I don't care. If you aren't gonna come up with reasons and measures to make change don't complain when it comes. I say the something to people who complain about the government but don't vote. Don't ##### if you didn't vote. 

 
So once again it is all video games fault.    Fine work with me then give me the names of the video games currently out there that would make people think that manifesto about ending Spanish "takeover" of the United States.   What video game out there drives a person to drive hours out of his home town to El Paso

If the idea to solve ALL of these problems is to have more people with guns they these "good guys with guns" to grow a freaking spine and help people instead of using this as what you are currently using it and that is to hide your fragile ego

 
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Stealthycat said:
the SC can change that, and they can also protect rifles and semi-auto rifles too

again - a ruling or law will not stop people from murdering others and isn't that REALLY the ultimate goal here ? 
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The ultimate goal is to reduce our gun violence down to the level of other developed countries. There really is no way to stop it completely. Continuing to claim that the ultimate goal is to stop it completely is nothing but a distraction from doing things that could reduce it. 

 
Neil deGrasse Tyson

@neiltyson

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors

300 to the Flu

250 to Suicide

200 to Car Accidents

40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.

 
KCitons said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson

@neiltyson

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors

300 to the Flu

250 to Suicide

200 to Car Accidents

40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
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Really bad timing Neil deGrasse. Plus a dumb tweet.

Pretty disappointed in him

 
DJackson10 said:
Its not Mentally Ill People 

It’s #WhiteSupremacistTerrorism.
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It's domestic terrorism.

Race might be a factor for some, but it is not the root cause for all of those shootings listed. 

The more we make this about race, the more divided we remain. 

 
Max Power said:
It's domestic terrorism.

Race might be a factor for some, but it is not the root cause for all of those shootings listed. 

The more we make this about race, the more divided we remain. 
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Because some of ot is about race...right now, specifically, white nationalism has been the major source of domestic terrorism.

If the shooters would have been muslims or immigrants...the GOP and the right would be ready to legislate..and you know what would be coming out of the Oval....instead, its met with obstruction and deflection.

 
badmojo1006 said:
Really bad timing Neil deGrasse. Plus a dumb tweet.

Pretty disappointed in him
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Medical errors, aka mistakes and technology is reducing them every day

Flu, an illness that you can't do anything about. Maybe one day there will be a cure. We're trying. 

Suicide, mental illness and horrible tragedy. There should be more access and work to rid the stigma of "being weak" so more will seek help

Car accidents, again, accidents and again technology is rapidly getting better with self driving tech to lower the amount. 

Handgun murders, Hand guns are made for killing, they ain't no good for nothing else. ~Lynyrd Skynyrd

So WTF does any of that, other than using a handgun to murder, have to do with some psycho PURPOSELY murdering a bunch of innocent men, women, and children? 

Big fan of NDT but really disappointed as well

 
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sho nuff said:
Pretty disgusting by him too to deflect with that crap.

Measures are taken in the other issues to mitigate risk and legislate things. When measures are proposed to do the same with gun violence its met with deflection and obstruction.
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My previous post outlines all the laws that changed in 2018. I will see what I can find for changes so far in 2019. Laws are changing. Saying that they aren't is a lie. 

KCitons said:
I've mentioned that many cities and states have passed gun control measures. Many here have said that nothing is happening and that the NRA is standing in the way. It begs the question, if a majority of the population wants more gun regulation, why aren't more states doing this?  How does Texas pass these laws if the majority of Texans want stricter gun regulation.

New gun control laws passed in 2018

Since the shooting at Marjory Stoneman DouglasHigh School, the following laws have been changed:

Florida passed the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Act in the wake of the shooting. It raised the age to purchase guns to 21 from 18, banned people legally judged “mentally defective” from buying a gun, and set up a system for law enforcement to take guns from people deemed a threat to themselves or others. The law also banned bump stocks, used in the 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas. Bump stocks make semi-automatic weapons function like automatic guns so that they fire without the need to repeatedly press the trigger.

The federal government later effectively banned bump stocks nationwide, with a regulation signed by acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker requiring most gun owners to destroy or turn in the devices by March 26.

Washington State voters approved Initiative 1639 in the November 2018 elections. As the Seattle Times reported, the new law requires anyone buying a semi-automatic rifle to be 21, pass a beefed-up background check, have taken a mandatory training class, and wait 10 business days to get the gun. It also allows gun owners to be charged with “community endangerment” if guns are not locked up and a child or someone not allowed to have them commits a crime with them or brandishes them in public.

Vermont enacted new laws limiting gun sales to people under 21, capping gun magazine sizes, and restricting person-to-person gun transfers without background checks.

New Jersey passed a series of gun legislation banning armor-piercing ammunition, limiting magazine sizes to 10 rounds, allowing guns to be temporarily seized if the owner is deemed dangerous, requiring background checks for private gun sales, and funding a gun violence research center at Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.

California passed laws banning people convicted of domestic violence and people put on involuntary court psychiatric holds twice in a year from owning guns. The state also now requires that gun buyers be 21. Finally, it mandated training before people could receive concealed-carry permits.

Louisiana created a mechanism to seize guns from domestic abusers who are banned from having them. The state also allowed guns up to the property lines of schools and colleges, removed a training requirement before bringing guns into houses of worship, and legalized switchblades.

New York earlier this year passed a series of new gun laws, restricting guns in schools (including effectively banning teachers from carrying weapons on the job), providing funding for local gun buy-back programs, and allowing court orders that ban at-risk people from having guns. It also allowed longer waiting periods after inconclusive pre-purchase background checks.

In total, 11 states passed laws in 2018 that restrict gun access to people linked to domestic violence, and eight states, plus the District of Columbia, created ways to temporarily keep guns from dangerous or “at risk” people, according to data from the Giffords Law Center, a gun control advocacy group.
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Sinn Fein said:
He is, rightly, getting slammed about this.  Not only is it tone-deaf, but it really drives home the point that we are working towards fixing the other issues - while we continue to do nothing about gun culture.
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Maybe that was his point. He only posts facts without any explanation. 

 
badmojo1006 said:
KCitons said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson

@neiltyson

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors

300 to the Flu

250 to Suicide

200 to Car Accidents

40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
Click to expand...
Really bad timing Neil deGrasse. Plus a dumb tweet.

Pretty disappointed in him
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Yep, I do like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but what a dork!

I liked Eric Weinstein's reply tweets (In my mind, I'm constantly getting Weinstein and @rockaction mixed up)

Like many Americans, I have both strong pro-gun rights & pro-gun control positions in conflict with each other that I've never really worked out. Many of us carry this internal conflict. Each mass US shooting tilts that argument. I'm tiring of our own helplessness to stop this.

..

Our emotions are telling us something here. They're part of extending our rationality. Let me make a simple observation: our previous relationship to powerful firearms is simply not going to survive the new trend in lethality we're seeing. That's just an obvious apolitical fact.

...

You're probably thinking: 'Well, mass shooting arrivals probably follow a Poisson process modified for copy cat effects...so this is a false "bad luck streak" with an N of 2 presented without context." And this is why I can't really hang with rationalists, despite a math PhD.
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Stealthycat said:
nobody ever said laws were 100% effective 

if you could pass a law today that would save 10,000 lives in 2020 .... but would also have social impacts to 50 million people would you do it ? pretty simple answer - do it, right ?
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Kinda depends on the social impact.  

Does it make people behave like the Handmaid’s Tale? No.  Does it mean they just can’t own the rifle that makes them feel like they’re playing Call of Duty? Maybe. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
Yes. I’m not sure it’s an insightful point though.
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That's left up to the individual. 

It's been discussed quite a bit here. I've said that the traffic in this thread increases right after a shooting. The problem is still here in between each shooting. So, emotion is at least driving the discussion here. 

 
KCitons said:
Louisiana created a mechanism to seize guns from domestic abusers who are banned from having them. 
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This is like voting rights. Domestic abuser? Lose the gun. Keep going.... Felon? Lose the gun. Reported by mental health professional? Lose the gun. Committed for any reason or period? Lose the gun. Voting is a sacrosanct right and we limit it.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is like voting rights. Domestic abuser? Lose the gun. Keep going.... Felon? Lose the gun. Reported by mental health professional? Lose the gun. Committed for any reason or period? Lose the gun. Voting is a sacrosanct right and we limit it.
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Not sure your point? Are you saying that there is no law to ban felons, mentally ill, committed individuals?

Did LA create a mechanism that wasn't there before? Is it removing guns from the hands of potential violent offenders?

 
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