Vermont not part of New England (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

I'm going to snip two articles

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pb.../712200315/1002

Sen. Patrick J. Leahy, D-Vt., said a decision about whether most Vermonters will be able to watch the New York Giants against the New England Patriots football game on Dec. 29 on over-the-air television could come as early as today.

Leahy said he spoke by phone Wednesday afternoon with National Football League commissioner Roger Goodell, who promised to respond today to the concerns expressed by the senior senator that Vermonters would be blocked from seeing the possibly historic game. The game, which could complete an undefeated regular season, is restricted to the NFL Network.

The phone conversation followed a second letter signed by Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and co-signed by Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., the ranking member of the committee. The letter stated it might be time for Congress to study whether the NFL should continue to receive antitrust exemption.

"The NFL appears to be moving incrementally closer to limiting distribution of its programming to subscription television," they wrote.

"Now that the NFL is adopting strategies to limit distribution of game programming to their own networks, Congress may need to reexamine the need and desirability of their continued exemption from the Nation's antitrust laws."

Specter has taken an interest because the NFL also has restricted tonight's game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and St. Louis Rams to the NFL Network.

"I told him I don't own any TV stations or cable companies and that there are a lot of people in Vermont who are Patriots fans and a lot who are Giants fans. I said the Giants used to train in Vermont at St. Michael's College," Leahy said in a phone interview.

"I'm not talking about who wins. I'm concerned about Vermonters who want to see the game. His staff is going to call my staff in the morning."

***The followup***

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pb...D=2007712220303

National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell has sacked congressional attempts to ensure over-the-air access in Vermont to the potentially historic game between New England Patriots and New York Giants on Dec. 29.

In a letter hand-delivered Friday night to the Washington office of U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., Goodell recapped the league's prickly negotiations with the nation's cable systems over issues relating to carrying NFL games.

Under league rules, games scheduled on the NFL Network must be shown on local television only in the team's primary market -- which in the case of the Patriots, is greater Boston, not Vermont and other New England markets.

"I'm deeply disappointed that the NFL doesn't consider Vermont to be part of the New England Patriots' home market," said Leahy, who has been leading the charge to get the game carried on over-the-air and lower tier cable television.

"The fans are being held hostage over business negotiations that have nothing to do with fans' interest in this game. The New England Patriots will have a lot of disappointed New England fans tonight," Leahy said.

 

[Bri]

Vermont, NH, Maine...what's new england in your opinion?

The "catch" here is the games are always televised and this is a change taking place in week 16.

Leahy is an ol Senator with plenty of friends in Washington. I'm pretty sure Goodell just did something he'll regret. Anti-trust, monopoly laws...whatever comes up soon, remember this as the start of it all.

 

[The Shizzle]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

 

[Bri]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

 

[Christo]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

 

[Team Tosh]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

I don't think his point is where New England is. It's that Vermont and other areas outside of Boston, New England's prime market. should be televised the game over the air. The same thing happened in WI for the Packer-Cowboy game. The game was only shown in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Outside the NFL Network, the rest of the state didn't get the game. While it sort of sucks, this ruling seems to be consistent with previous games.

 

[Bri]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

 

[eom]

games scheduled on the NFL Network must be shown on local television only in the team's primary market -- which in the case of the Patriots, is greater Boston, not Vermont and other New England markets.

why does this thread exist?

 

[eom]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

I don't think his point is where New England is. It's that Vermont and other areas outside of Boston, New England's prime market. should be televised the game over the air. The same thing happened in WI for the Packer-Cowboy game. The game was only shown in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Outside the NFL Network, the rest of the state didn't get the game. While it sort of sucks, this ruling seems to be consistent with previous games.

omg milwaukee /= green bay!!

 

[Team Tosh]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

 

[Bri]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

I don't think his point is where New England is. It's that Vermont and other areas outside of Boston, New England's prime market. should be televised the game over the air. The same thing happened in WI for the Packer-Cowboy game. The game was only shown in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Outside the NFL Network, the rest of the state didn't get the game. While it sort of sucks, this ruling seems to be consistent with previous games.

I had no idea about the Pack games so I can't comment on them. I am surprised we didn't hear more barking here about it.Vermont (and probably NH, ME, CT, RI) people have watched the Pats every week for years and years, suddenly he turns this off(in a way) and restricts the game. That's....not right.

 

[Team Tosh]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

I don't think his point is where New England is. It's that Vermont and other areas outside of Boston, New England's prime market. should be televised the game over the air. The same thing happened in WI for the Packer-Cowboy game. The game was only shown in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Outside the NFL Network, the rest of the state didn't get the game. While it sort of sucks, this ruling seems to be consistent with previous games.

omg milwaukee /= green bay!!

No, Milwaukee used to host Packer games and is considered part of the primary market because of that.

 

[Christo]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

I asked where Goodell said it. Not how Leahy - the politician - put his spin on it.

 

[Max Power]

I understand Vermont's point of view. The NFL is being stupid here. It is a shame people can't enjoy the game unless the NFL takes advantage of the situation first.

Another sign that the NFL doesn't care about the average fan.

 

[Team Tosh]

New England = Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island

exactly, not just "the Boston area"

I don't think his point is where New England is. It's that Vermont and other areas outside of Boston, New England's prime market. should be televised the game over the air. The same thing happened in WI for the Packer-Cowboy game. The game was only shown in Green Bay and Milwaukee. Outside the NFL Network, the rest of the state didn't get the game. While it sort of sucks, this ruling seems to be consistent with previous games.

I had no idea about the Pack games so I can't comment on them. I am surprised we didn't hear more barking here about it.Vermont (and probably NH, ME, CT, RI) people have watched the Pats every week for years and years, suddenly he turns this off(in a way) and restricts the game. That's....not right.

There was a lot of complaining about that both here and from Jerry Jones in Texas. WI Governor Doyle tried to get the game here as well. The bars were packed that night and made for a fun viewing environment. Normally I watch games and prefer to watch games at home, but it wasn't so bad. Again, I don't agree with the NFL Network on this issue, but I agree with the cable companies even less, and I understand why the NFL Network is taking a hard stand on this.

 

[Bri]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

 

[Christo]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

Until they changed their name, yes.Edit: And you still seem to be confusing Leahy with Goodell.

 

[Bri]

So for the GB Milwaukee stuff, they could watch every game for years and years and they just pulled one single game like this? Games been on regular TV since?

 

[Team Tosh]

I understand Vermont's point of view. The NFL is being stupid here. It is a shame people can't enjoy the game unless the NFL takes advantage of the situation first. Another sign that the NFL doesn't care about the average fan.

I live in an apartment and I couldn't have a dish if I wanted to. Charter, our cable company doesn't offer NLFN so I don't have any options other than going to a bar. Yet, I still don't blame the NFLN as much as I blame the cable companies.

 

[Bri]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

Until they changed their name, yes.Edit: And you still seem to be confusing Leahy with Goodell.

And when was that? when was the broadcasting deal? are you enjoying NOT discussing this topic but silly semantics as much as I am?

 

[Team Tosh]

So for the GB Milwaukee stuff, they could watch every game for years and years and they just pulled one single game like this? Games been on regular TV since?

Not sure I understand your question.

 

[Christo]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

Until they changed their name, yes.Edit: And you still seem to be confusing Leahy with Goodell.

And when was that? when was the broadcasting deal? are you enjoying NOT discussing this topic but silly semantics as much as I am?

Attributing statements to the proper speaker is not semantics.

 

[Bri]

Christo,

how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

 

[Christo]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

 

[Bri]

So for the GB Milwaukee stuff, they could watch every game for years and years and they just pulled one single game like this? Games been on regular TV since?

Not sure I understand your question.

The previous post about a game being not aired in Milwaukee. I'm asking if they've always been able to see Pack games for years(I figure so but...) and if since that one game not being aired, have the Pack been back on regular TV?

 

[Team Tosh]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

I'm not sure how "markets" are determined. Do local markets get ESPN games broadcast over the air as well for those that don't have ESPN?

 

[Bri]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

Giants play in East Rutherford NJPats play in Foxboro MANY(a separate state from NJ) fans can watch the GiantsVT(a separate state from MA but part of so called New England) fans can't watch the Pats

 

[nerangers]

Vermont not part of New England, Goodell all but says that

Where?

2nd to last sentence by Leahy

He saying it's not part of the Patriot's primary market. Not that it isn't part of New England.

No he said "home market" not "primary market", not picknits ....regardless:So they're the Boston Patriots?

I haven't read all of the details here...but when I lived in MA, the Pats were shown in all six NE states! That is the home market!With all the grief that showing these games on the NFL Network is causing fans that can not see it, I almost wish they would just show the games as they always have. I will be streaming the games off the internet so I can still see them!

 

[Team Tosh]

So for the GB Milwaukee stuff, they could watch every game for years and years and they just pulled one single game like this? Games been on regular TV since?

Not sure I understand your question.

The previous post about a game being not aired in Milwaukee. I'm asking if they've always been able to see Pack games for years(I figure so but...) and if since that one game not being aired, have the Pack been back on regular TV?

I wrote the game was aired in Milwaukee and Green Bay, just not the rest of the state. The reason Milwaukee is considered a home market is that they used to play home games there and the Milwaukee season ticket holders still get to attend three games per year. The rest of WI did not get the game which I would consider to be similar the Vermont situation.

 

[Bri]

So for the GB Milwaukee stuff, they could watch every game for years and years and they just pulled one single game like this? Games been on regular TV since?

Not sure I understand your question.

The previous post about a game being not aired in Milwaukee. I'm asking if they've always been able to see Pack games for years(I figure so but...) and if since that one game not being aired, have the Pack been back on regular TV?

I wrote the game was aired in Milwaukee and Green Bay, just not the rest of the state. The reason Milwaukee is considered a home market is that they used to play home games there and the Milwaukee season ticket holders still get to attend three games per year. The rest of WI did not get the game which I would consider to be similar the Vermont situation.

do they normally get it?

 

[Team Tosh]

All other games except maybe the ESPN games are broadcast over the air for most of the rest of the state. The area by the Twin Cities is one exception where we are subjected to the Vikings.

 

[Christo]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

Giants play in East Rutherford NJPats play in Foxboro MANY(a separate state from NJ) fans can watch the GiantsVT(a separate state from MA but part of so called New England) fans can't watch the Pats

So you're comparing the distance from NYC to East Rutherford, NJ to the distance from Foxboro, MA to Vermont?

 

[Bri]

All other games except maybe the ESPN games are broadcast over the air for most of the rest of the state. The area by the Twin Cities is one exception where we are subjected to the Vikings.

I think that's ridiculousthanks for the reply

 

[Team Tosh]

Does anyone know about the ESPN games and if they are broadcast on regular tv in home markets?

 

[Bri]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

Giants play in East Rutherford NJPats play in Foxboro MANY(a separate state from NJ) fans can watch the GiantsVT(a separate state from MA but part of so called New England) fans can't watch the Pats

So you're comparing the distance from NYC to East Rutherford, NJ to the distance from Foxboro, MA to Vermont?

I never mentioned distance

 

[Team Tosh]

All other games except maybe the ESPN games are broadcast over the air for most of the rest of the state. The area by the Twin Cities is one exception where we are subjected to the Vikings.

I think that's ridiculousthanks for the reply

I feel for you guys too, I'm just trying to explain the precedent. What NE is attempting to do this year (and have already accomplished) is amazing and I think the entire country should be able to watch them from the comforts of their own home. Hopefully everything will be sorted out next year, but I doubt it.

 

[Christo]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

Giants play in East Rutherford NJPats play in Foxboro MANY(a separate state from NJ) fans can watch the GiantsVT(a separate state from MA but part of so called New England) fans can't watch the Pats

So you're comparing the distance from NYC to East Rutherford, NJ to the distance from Foxboro, MA to Vermont?

I never mentioned distance

Why not?

 

[eom]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

 

[Bri]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

 

[Christo]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

So since the Cowboys are America's Team, you'd also argue that they should be broadcast nationwide?

 

[Bri]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

So since the Cowboys are America's Team, you'd also argue that they should be broadcast nationwide?

No but they should be broadcast in Dallas, shouldn't they?

 

[dparker713]

Christo,how do you reason out NYers being allowed to watch the Giants that play in NJ then?

What?

Giants play in East Rutherford NJPats play in Foxboro MANY(a separate state from NJ) fans can watch the GiantsVT(a separate state from MA but part of so called New England) fans can't watch the Pats

So you're comparing the distance from NYC to East Rutherford, NJ to the distance from Foxboro, MA to Vermont?

I never mentioned distance

Ah, look how effective the Patriots marketing ploy has been on Bri. They changed their name from Boston to NE to try to broaden their fan base. This would be akin to Atlanta renaming themselves the Southern Falcons. That doesnt change their primary market from Atlanta to any place in the south. The league has determined primary market zones with the networks over a series of negotiations, individual teams do not get to up and decide to increase their market area by hundreds of square miles. That said, Go Southwest Cardinals! Go Midwest Chiefs! Go Pacific Northwest Seahawks!

 

[eom]

dude, you have me totally confused.

you are #####ing that the NEW YORK football giants shouldn't be shown in new york, while you are advocating that the NEW ENGLAND patriots need to be shown throughout new england?

this entire thread is trolling, isn't it?

 

[Christo]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

So since the Cowboys are America's Team, you'd also argue that they should be broadcast nationwide?

No but they should be broadcast in Dallas, shouldn't they?

Just like the Patriots are in the Boston area. So what's you're point?

 

[dparker713]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

Its less than 7 miles from Giants stadium to central Manhattan. Also, the Giants and Jets used to play in the state of NY. Besides which, the entire state does NOT see the Giants or Jets. Upstate is Bills country. And I think parts of southern NJ get the Eagles. And your complaint is about marketing, which is a team run operation, whereas the league runs the television deals.

 

[Christo]

dude, you have me totally confused.

you are #####ing that the NEW YORK football giants shouldn't be shown in new york, while you are advocating that the NEW ENGLAND patriots need to be shown throughout new england?

this entire thread is trolling, isn't it?

I think it's quite entertaining. Bri wants to say that the entire New England area is entitled to see the Pats just because they're called the New England Patriots, but he doesn't have the guts to do it.

 

[Bri]

forget vermont --- the real question is whether the new york football giants have to be shown in just the city of new york, or the entire state of new york.

check and mate, commissioner......

I agreethey don't even play there

He, IMO, makes an exception because it's the precious NY market. You'd think # of citizens in VT, ME, CT, RI, NH, and outside "greater Boston area" would be enough millions to warrant similar consideration.

It's like they want NE area residents to call the Pats "our team" and buy merchandise and support them but, when it comes time to watch the game, those fans are forgotten about.

So since the Cowboys are America's Team, you'd also argue that they should be broadcast nationwide?

No but they should be broadcast in Dallas, shouldn't they?

Just like the Patriots are in the Boston area. So what's you're point?

that you haven't been able to follow a thread all day

 

[Max Power]

Can someone define "the greater Boston Area"? Does that include CT?

 

[Bri]

dude, you have me totally confused.

you are #####ing that the NEW YORK football giants shouldn't be shown in new york, while you are advocating that the NEW ENGLAND patriots need to be shown throughout new england?

this entire thread is trolling, isn't it?

I think it's quite entertaining. Bri wants to say that the entire New England area is entitled to see the Pats just because they're called the New England Patriots, but he doesn't have the guts to do it.

Wha?The Entire New England area is entitled to see the Pats because they're call the New England Patriots

Feel better?

Also because they have been shown the Pats games here for years and years. I am not asking that they put the game on special for NE fans but that they continue to do it as they have for a long time.

 

[Christo]

dude, you have me totally confused.

you are #####ing that the NEW YORK football giants shouldn't be shown in new york, while you are advocating that the NEW ENGLAND patriots need to be shown throughout new england?

this entire thread is trolling, isn't it?

I think it's quite entertaining. Bri wants to say that the entire New England area is entitled to see the Pats just because they're called the New England Patriots, but he doesn't have the guts to do it.

Wha?The Entire New England area is entitled to see the Pats because they're call the New England Patriots

Feel better?

Also because they have been shown the Pats games here for years and years. I am not asking that they put the game on special for NE fans but that they continue to do it as they have for a long time.

I knew it So if Jerry Jones changed the name of the Cowboys to The North Texas and Oklahoma Cowboys he'd be entitled to get the games broadcast there as well?