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Agre.. The past three games have been against defenses that the Niners knew they had to account for and the Giants openly said they did everything to limit him. It sucks if you are an owner this past several weeks but its always much better to slump in the middle than at the end. With a bye and a better schedule, the Niners have time to adjust accordingly.
I'm actually 7-1, but prefer not to have someone of his type on my team. I have survived with him because of the strength of my team overall, but prior to this week I pulled off a trade to bring in Jason Witten for a bit more consistency to the position (obviously I wasn't expecting the outburst he had this week, but 10-15 points is usually a given with him). I'll wait for Vernon's next blow-up, and I'll trade him off to someone who wants to deal with him.He is in the same tier as Vincent Jackson for me. If I have him on a team, I always make sure I have another option available to start every week...and if I see a situation where I need a monster game (tough bye week, injuries, etc. that make me the underdog), I'll play them.Typically I avoid these boom/bust players on my team, and work to trade for the guys who still have the boom weeks, but have more stable "bust" weeks. I sincerely thought Davis would get more usage on a weekly rate this year, but it's clear that the 49ers are using him the same way they have for the past few years.
He's seeing more doubles, ala Gates in his prime. Alex Smith has been told not to take chances, so he will always throw to single coverage as the rule in the Harbaugh offense. V Davis is a scary start, because if a defense decides to take him away....he won't be force fed the ball like other stars.
This has been true in some games, but I've been watching the All-22 film from last night he wasn't really doubled. He was being used more in the blocking game, while Delanie Walker was being lined up more than usual as a receiver. When Vernon did go out on receiving routes, Alex Smith simply wasn't looking his way.Don't get me wrong, I like Vernon Davis and think he's an amazing talent...but on this San Fransisco team that fails to use him as the elite receiving TE he is, I don't trust him.
I thought that they would be opening up the offense a little bit with Smith in his second year in the system, given VD the opportunity for bigger numbers while having the same or smaller slice of the overall pie. However, with the upgraded offensive line play and running game, they can still blow out bad teams on less than 30 passing attempts, so Davis isn't getting to beat up some of these weaker secondaries like other top receiving options do. Plus, I think we've seen Smith's ceiling at this point - even with some familiarity with the offensive system, he's never going to be a guy who slings it around, particularly on low percentage deep throws. Heck, it was considered a sign of progress that he threw a jump ball up to Crabtree last night in single coverage from inside the 10 yard line.Davis is probably going to have some monster games down the road, but he's certainly not put up the fantasy numbers I expected from him this year.
This is true. I noticed this just watching the regular broadcast last night. Smith would start out looking the other way and NEVER look back at Vernon. Its really perplexing. This is the stuff you see rookies and QBs that aren't really known to be adept at reading coverages do. I always thought smith was supposed to be a smart guy.
Yea, and he completed 18/19 Pass attempts. Much like a rookie would. You statement is perplexing.
Yeah, that happens all the time in the NFL. Its called an anomaly and it really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Maybe under a set of conditions, you or I could go out and complete a bunch of passes (maybe there are blown coverages in a game..maybe we crank out 15 screen passes..). Doesn't matter. The issue is, when you see Smith drop back, he is not reading vernon Davis into the play. That is a concern if you are a person who is interested in Vernon Davis' role on the team.This is the exact opposite of the Dez bryant post a few weeks ago. The key in that post talking about Dez was that it was obvious Romo was looking at him first and often. That is opportunity. This is the exact opposite. How much work can Davis get if he is literally never looked at? Not much. that is the point.'Fullback Fro said:
This is the real truth. Teams are getting very anxious about getting to Smith in hopes of rattling him so the niners have adjusted accordingly. Davis is a great blocking TE (way better than Walker) and can neutralize a lot of blitz packages by staying to block. The 18/19 performance had a lot to do with protection and Davis was a major contributor. As a fellow owner in dynasty leagues, that doesn't stop my from whining about his production, but Davis is making a huge positive impact on the niners success right now, just more as blocker than receiver. He'll still have some games where he'll put up big numbers, but he was never going to be in the glorified WR category of TEs like Graham and Hernandez anyway.'solorca said:
He doesn't. But this is a thread about Davis' production, not a thread about whether or not the SF offense works. Lamenting how much Davis is kept in to block is relevant to the thread topic.
I was replying to the guy who equated Smith to a rookie QB just because he wasn't throwing to Davis more.
Ah. That makes a little more sense now.
His statement is more accurate than you give him credit for. A few of Smith's (ZOMG) 18 completions were for only a few yards, two of them IIRC for only one. Smith is playing safe ball back there, and even got them into longer 3rd down yardage due to sacks (he get's blown up easy on a deep drop from under center). The one play where he hit VD was old Jimmy Raye seam route stuff in the shotgun. If you see Smith in the shotgun with VD running the seam, chances are they connect on that. It's a staple now between them.'Fullback Fro said:
Sue me for asking out loud how come a QB that is supposedly known for being a smart guy doesn't utilize one of the best TEs in the league as a pass-catcher intstead of a blocker. Point taken on "its working in SF" and I'm sure harbaugh doesn't care about fantasy success.But, with that being said, the thread IS about Vernon and his production (or lack thereof) and so I said what I said. And, I don't think it's crazy to ask the question out loud, regardless, because even in REAL football, if you have what is commonly called a smart coach, a smart QB, and a top-talent at TE, most people would ask that same question. Things "working fine" only gets you so far (e.g., if you are winning every game and not getting destroyed by good teams like the Giants), even in real life, before people start asking questions like "Hey! How about you go pay some guy a LOT less money to be a glorified blocker and you actually start using your TE like the weapon he is? You know, like the successful teams that don't get their butts handed to them by teams like the Giants do? Then maybe those teams would have to respect that player's talent and you wouldn't be paying your best threat to do what most rudimentary players can do.
What kind of offers are you getting for him? I have had a few inquiries, but no one has actually sent an offer yet.
Only since you asked (because that seems to be a taboo)...I'm feeling pretty weak at QB being a Vick owner and my backup is Carson Palmer. Got offered Dalton/Pitta for Palmer/VD.Don't think I'll accept, but I like Dalton slightly better than Palmer, and I really don't like Pitta much. But I think Baltimore is going to be playing from behind a lot this year. This doesn't seem like an unreasonable trade considering VD is on his bye. I dunno...
Jimmy Raye's old offense used VD more than Greg Roman's does now. It comes down to managing the QB in Smith. As long as Smith is behind center, chances are Davis' production as a target in Harbaugh's 49ers with Smith at QB isn't gonna be huge in numbers. If the 49er run game was less than it is now, then maybe you get more out of Davis.
I think on any given week, you are better off holding on that trade. I understand your thought on Baltimore but the Raiders play from behind too. really see it as a wash at best and you are giving up the best player in the deal.
Thanks for the response. I agree. But Vick has me nervous, and it's not a knee jerk slam dunk turn down offer. I guess I'm so used to ridiculous trade offers, that one that is reasonable threw me for a loop. I'll hold for now. If there is breaking Vick news, I'll re-consider. Palmer is going to be decent as you said having to rally from behind a lot, so it's not entirely a clear need trade either. (edit to add, my other TE is Tony G.)
It's fine to talk about. My only gripe is blaming Smith for it. It's obvious that part if not most of the reason for VD's lack of stats is because the 49ers are gameplanning it that way. Smith not finding VD as much as he did is a result of having more reliable targets to throw to, and because there are more targets, it kind of makes sense that it frees VD to use his superior blocking abilities. Sounds more like a case of good coaching than bad QBing.
Not for nothing, but if there's one thing NO is good at stopping (only thing), it's TEs. They give up the 6th fewest points to the position. When you take into account how many yards offenses have been putting up on them weekly, this is a mind boggling stat.As for Davis, the one thing that concerned me after week 4 and is still rather concerning now is his lack of targets. He averages 5.7 targets a game which is good for 17th among all TEs. To put it into perspective, he sees about as much love as Brandon Myers, Coby Fleener and Anthony Fasano. In a perfect world, you'd like for a freak like Davis to be getting more action than that. The conservative style offensive and the fact that Davis is a premiere blocker really doesn't help his case.
Dumpoffs are targets too.
He hurt my team this past week too. 0 targets yet again.Is he droppable at this point? He is really hurting my team. Only reason I'm holding on to him is because the TE position is really shallow this year in the FA.I had such high hopes from his hot start...
Buck up little Fella, I play against him this week and he always, always goes off against me.Is he droppable at this point? He is really hurting my team. Only reason I'm holding on to him is because the TE position is really shallow this year in the FA.I had such high hopes from his hot start...
VD owners must have loved Jimmy Raye.
I know he loves SF but if I were him, I'd go somewhere else after his contract is over. I know he's frustrated inside and a professional about it but blocking all the time and playing a decoy is no fun. He needs to go to a pass happy offense. Imagine if the Saints got him, Jimmy Graham and Vernon Davis, double TE set. Oh boy, I'm getting a woody...
Welcome to the world on Vernon Davis. As long as he is in San Francisco, you can pretty much expect this to be the way it goes. I love the guy and think if he was in New Orleans or New England he would be just as good as Gronk/Graham... But as it stands, he is just not a guy I trust. I finally traded him off in all my leagues, and it's refreshing to not think about what kind of game I'm getting from him every week.God I hate this f#@##!!!! One week I sit him he has a good week and another goose egg this week. WTF?????
Welcome to the world on Vernon Davis. As long as he is in San Francisco, you can pretty much expect this to be the way it goes. I love the guy and think if he was in New Orleans or New England he would be just as good as Gronk/Graham... But as it stands, he is just not a guy I trust. I finally traded him off in all my leagues, and it's refreshing to not think about what kind of game I'm getting from him every week.God I hate this f#@##!!!! One week I sit him he has a good week and another goose egg this week. WTF?????
Wish I had done the same, but by the time I tried to deal him his value was pretty low. SF really misuses him, but as long as they keep on rolling I don't expect much to change.
I did the same. Over Ryan Mathews. And while the point differential is much worse in your case, looks like decision is gonna end up costing me a win... and maybe a playoff spot.
He had a catch that was called back on a penalty (I think it was holding).
Was gonna post the same thing.That was just dumb. I would've told you that before the games even started this morning.
