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Vince Young Not coming back with Titans (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Genester
- Start date
Football Critic
Footballguy
He has not been released, get your story straight. He will be released OR traded, nothing set yet.
valhallan
Footballguy
^^ this.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Hoping he lands in SF.
They'd be fools to release him.
They'd be fools to release him.
Football Critic
Footballguy
LOL, he fixed it....I think u keep young but let go of Fisher, but thats just me.
sho nuff
Footballguy
True...but the owner is saying he won't be on the roster next year. Wonder what kind of value he has.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Why? I thought Young was a UFA?
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
To which of my statements?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Why fools?
Young's head and what some team thinks of it will determine his value.
When he's somewhat right, I think he'd be a super backup to have around. Maybe even play him like a baseball reliever as he is an excellent QB in the final two minutes.
Seems like several contenders could use a veteran backup and since they wouldn't get him on the WW, they'd have to offer a late pick to get him. His contract is far from ideal though.
The goal is to find out if you can get the guy that was a rookie in the NFL. It's as if that was a different person wearing Young's jersey. That guy could be an awesome NFL QB.
When he's somewhat right, I think he'd be a super backup to have around. Maybe even play him like a baseball reliever as he is an excellent QB in the final two minutes.
Seems like several contenders could use a veteran backup and since they wouldn't get him on the WW, they'd have to offer a late pick to get him. His contract is far from ideal though.
The goal is to find out if you can get the guy that was a rookie in the NFL. It's as if that was a different person wearing Young's jersey. That guy could be an awesome NFL QB.
lod01
Footballguy
If Harbaugh lands in SF, you can bet Young won't. He's smart enough to know that bum would drag him down.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Because he's much better than Collins or whatever else they have. Vince Young is not an 'elite' qb. But he's certainly above average. And if he ever starts putting in some extra work (yeah, I'm not holding my breath on that one either) he could be really good. As of right now he's in the top half of qb's in this league. He's emotionally unreliable but when does somebody need to be a Saint and idol to play football?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
I bet you would. I'm sure the Titans would take Vick for Justin Gage, too.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Young being coddled so much at Texas hurt him more than helped him. Playing QB in the NFL is the most dificult position to play in all of sports. What team or coach wants a emotionally unstable QB?? If Young was cut it may help him in the long term.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Someone needs to be neither saint nor idol to play football. Someone needs to be neither saint nor idol to be a successful NFL quarterback.Someone DOES need to not be a knucklehead to be a successful NFL quarterback.Vince Young is a knucklehead. Until he takes care of that, he will not be a succesful NFL quarterback.The reliability issue that you brushed up against is kind of a big deal too. Tough to run any player out there when you don't know from one day to the next if he's going to go into "Operation Shutdown" mode, a la Derek Bell back in the day.Vince is a great athlete. He isn't a great QB and won't be until he straightens out his s@#$, whatever that may be.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.I bet you would. I'm sure the Titans would take Vick for Justin Gage, too.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Taking VY exactly as he is, he's in the top half of qb's in this league. Guys like that are not easily found. Emotionally unstable or not.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
ESPN just mentioned Kolb as a "high price tag option of a franchise QB."Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I haven't called him a great qb - but I do believe he's above average.What is your definition of a "successful NFL quarterback"? W/L record? YPA? TD/INT ratio? Surely there must be some basis from which we can logically work from instead of exchanging shouts.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Even if TEN would accept that trade, what makes you think Philly could, or better yet, would utilize Johnson AND McCoy. What are they gonna split 15 carries a game?Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.
Claydon
Footballguy
He's in the top half, half of the time.
PennStater77
Footballguy
Tennessee will go after Kolb or even Matt Flynn, or they will try to get Mallet or even get Locker in the 2nd round.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Young is not a coaches dream. That is what will hurt him the most. Any coach does not want a attitude problem at QB. Carolina will draft Luck, no way Whisenhunt will take him, I doubt the new coach in SF will want to rest his future on Young.Who?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade.I bet you would. I'm sure the Titans would take Vick for Justin Gage, too.
faulknromos
Footballguy
No this would be an idiotic trade for TEN. McCoy and Kolb for CJ and a pick is more like it.Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
So what? Who is a qb that is in the top half, all the time? Brady? Even Peyton and Brees have their bad days/weeks. So you have to approach HoF level talents to find someone who isn't a mixed bag.
I don't disagree he's not a coaches dream. But who is? Brees, Brady, Peyton? Rivers? Bradford, Ryan? Not every coach can have their dream player. In fantasyland every HC would love to have a Montana/Rice combination. But those pieces are pretty rare. Sometimes you have to realize you have a pretty talented piece in front of you even if that player isn't packaged in the conventional manner you're used to. That's what a good coach is supposed to do - combine your strengths with that of your players. Not constantly try to force square pegs into round holes. Fisher doesn't adapt - he keeps trying to make VY into Kerry Collins. I would LOVE to have VY in SF. And the next coach of SF would much prefer VY over what they currently have.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Who's shouting? You like Young's prospects. I don't. Nothin' more, nothin' less.My definition of "successful" would certainly include some form of reliability. Vince doesn't fit that bill at present.
FUBAR
Footballguy
precisely what most of VY's current defenders don't get. It doesn't matter if the guy can be great for half a year if he'll melt down with the slightest adversity. This isn't your son's pee wee football league where every kid walks away with a trophy and believes themselves to be winners.
Phlash
Footballguy
The Titans would never be stupid enough to do that.
Phlash
Footballguy
Locker is a Young with a good head and worse passing ability. Pass.
FUBAR
Footballguy
It's okay to let the man dream.
FUBAR
Footballguy
delusional
Footballguy
I could see Kolb there. It would give Fisher a future QB that he doesn't have to fully develop sans attitude as opposed to a rookie. This would make the most sense if he wants to keep his job too.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
I think Gabbert would be a perfect fit. Maybe start the season with Collins for 1 more year and transition over to Gabbert.
As for Young, could you see him in Miami or Buffalo? Maybe Seattle?
As for Young, could you see him in Miami or Buffalo? Maybe Seattle?
shader
Footballguy
Titans basically need to get their scouts all over the tape of every QB in the upcoming draft. Luck is obviously out, but what about Locker, Newton, Gabbert, etc?
If they aren't sold on any of them, I'd trade a 2nd and give the reigns to Kyle Orton for the next 3-5 years.
Orton is a proven solid starter, and they could do MUCH worse.
If they aren't sold on any of them, I'd trade a 2nd and give the reigns to Kyle Orton for the next 3-5 years.
Orton is a proven solid starter, and they could do MUCH worse.
guderian
Footballguy
How many QBs get to work under a coach who's said he didn't want him from Day 1? Fisher preferred Leinart. The fact is that Young is 30-17 and had a QB rating near 100 this year--so all of these alleged faults didn't seem to impact the results on the field. I'll be interested to see how Fisher does with a bumper crop of FA QBs next year. It will be good for Young to get out of that mess and to a team that wants him as their QB.FUBAR said:
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Adebisi
Footballguy
mquinnjr said:Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.Neil Beaufort Zod said:mquinnjr said:
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
And who is a reliable guy capable of overcoming any adversity? Peyton, Brees, Big Ben, Brady...FUBAR said:
Why are Eagles fans so vocal about a QB that started two games being so good?IIRC Young and Kolb both played college ball in Texas and Young was eons better and in the pros Kolb's only won one game.Kolb was signed to supplant McNabb in time. He never really did that but instead a free agent QB just out of jail did. Kolb's TD to INT ratio is 1:1.I just don't get it.It's like Eagles fans try to shove Kolb down everyone's throat ever since he was drafted. There's probably 50 QBs in the NFL that have thrown more TDs, started more games, won more games, completed more passes....what do you love about this guy?And Fisher...he's got Kerry in sorta this veteran coach friendship. He can have Kerry come back and be his QB another year meanwhile draft a QB (they have a decent high pick) that has .....shock....only started two less games than Kolb. This post is just on a whole 'nother level. Kolb now is worth CJ? Aside from the incredibly obvious, have you watched a Titans game? The Titans would probably want 40 players in exchange for CJ and think that was reasonable. This Kolb stuff is insanemquinnjr said:
Fisher felt the team needed a spark. Young was benched, threw a tantrum and attempted suicide.Fisher felt the team needed a spark. Young was benched, threw a tantrum and threw his shoulder pads into the stands and shortly after took off to Texas and didn't return.What's "throwing" you here?
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
They picked a good DE in the first of 2010 draft. He had a leg injury in camp and was out for the year in October. They barely got to use the guy. He's going to (hopefully) seem like they added a first rounder in 2011.Most of the probs with Fisher now is that they are a very good team. Sure he had his share of turnover, more than his share, that has totally limited his ability to improve his team in the past, but they have tons of talent now. So where's the results? 3 years ago they had the best record in the NFL and the Ravens quickly knocked em' out of the playoffs with a CJ injury.Cook was finally starting. Britt sorta bolted this year chasing his wealth of potential. IMO this is a sign a veteran type situation. Fisher is in the last year of his deal. Titan fan favorite Keith Bullock played in NY this past season, Schwartz took Vandy, one just can't trust that they'll have this talent very long.The Titans had a serious issue with their offensive coordinator discovering he had cancer and having to get treatment right away. This happened shortly after Young got hurt. Moss...The last handful of weeks, we don't know how the gameplan truly was. Did Heimerdinger's cancer affect his performance? Did it affect Kerry's? A ton of things happened after the midway point of the season for the Titans.I would expect they sign a FA QB (like Orton) draft a QB and keep Kerry around.The CB spot opposite Finnegan has been a huge prob. After rankings and evaluations and such, if the top CB is deserving of their draft spot I could definitely seeing them put that problem to bed by picking one. They have three pro bowl DBs (I think two have been all-pro) and yet teams pass to that other CB spot with ease at times. It's so frustrating to watch. I can only imagine coaching and playing with that frustration.They did draft an awesome ballhawk last year but he gets burned going for so many that he should probably be a nickel.
Young only listened to certain individuals. Some point during his rookie year he began this horrible habit.I would not doubt it one but that Young was not following the gameplan and hitting a player that was open and at some point Fisher just said this is ridiculous and pulled him. Heimerdinger is one of the best at creating mismatches. That's about what his offense is. It lacks much creativity besides that but so do many NFL team's Os. If the QB is not going to exploit the mismatch Heimerdinger set up for him, what's Fisher supposed to do?Vince Young was very negatively affected by Steve McNair's death. McNair taught him so much and was so dear to him. Fine, this dear person passed away and he is sad he's no longer getting advice from him and...OK I get that, but the sum of everything here is "Vince, you've gotta get some help man. Check yourself in somewhere and regroup."I wrote several times how I expected him to go see Mack Brown and reportedly he has. Mack did not produce this undisciplined QB with bad habits that is immature. Something messed up his maturation process. He adores Mack and Mack will give it to him straight.In my gut, I feel like every NFL GM is waiting to hear Mack spread the word that he's straightened VY out. This is like a father shocked his misbehaving teenager acted as such. No one wants to be around that wild teenager until daddy set him straight. VY has more talent than most NFL QBs and has an awesome inner-drive to win but this is a man's game. He is not going to find much work if he's going to be selective about which coaches he listens to and he's not going to have much success if he does that either. And the tantrums...the guy's gotta get it together.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
It would have to be a fantasy world for the Titans to hand over a franchise RB for a QB who has had a few good games. Johnson will be 26, and this past year did include 700 less rushing yards: 1,300 rushing yards, 44 catches and a dozen touchdowns. He's an elite NFL running back. You don't give those away for a guy who has put up some nice numbers in a few starts. Kolb is someone who should compete for a starting job, or be given a job on a team with no QB. But you don't give up your best offensive player for a QB prospect. Whatever years Johnson has left, they're elite RB years if he's healthy. We have no idea if Kolb will turn into a playoff-caliber QB or a career backup. One is clearly more valuable than the other imo.mquinnjr said:Outside of fantasy, this is a good trade. Johnson has a few years of life left per the average lifespan for RB's these days. Although he's still an elite RB, I think in the neighborhood of 700 less rushing yards this season. Kolb is young and could make a career in a place like Tennessee throwing to Britt and Washington under Fisher. There's no room in Philly for him right now. In the end fair trade, we get a few years of solid CJ2K performance, you get a career of Kolb.Neil Beaufort Zod said:mquinnjr said:I bet you would. I'm sure the Titans would take Vick for Justin Gage, too.
I'm not a fan of either team but I'd probably lose respect for the Titans if they gave up Johnson for someone like Kolb. I don't think I'll have to worry about that, though. In any case, I'll be interested to see what they do at QB in 2011.
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Don't you think some of VY's "issues" are due to Fisher not backing his QB? Look VY never had any issues in Texas, and has done a good job with the Titans, but it seems like he has had to battle Fisher to even get on the field. (example 2009 0-6 and still did not want to put VY in who lead them to an 8-2 finish) So while VY has shown lack of maturity and may not have the best work ethic because he has always had the best talent.FUBAR said:
FUBAR
Footballguy
It's not so much a matter of having to show they can, it's a matter of not showing that they lack this life skill. But, most QBs who have started in the league 5 years have either shown they can rise above some adversity or no longer start. If you want positive examples of guys rising above adversity in various forms - Ben and Brees are good examples, Favre is another, Vick, Brady, even Cutler. FWIW, I thought VY had shown this last year, but this latest episode shows me that he can't be counted on. Apparently it showed Fisher and Adams the same.
