Vince Young vs. Matt Leinert (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

at this point, i am leaning towards taking vince young with the #5 pick in upcoming dynasty draft (anticipating RBs bush, williams, white & maroney gone by that slot)...

i'm guessing leinert ends up in NO & young in TEN... after thinking about it some more, i realized if young ends up in NO & leinert in TEN, i would probably flip flop & opt for leinert... i guess a testament to the esteem i hold norm chow in.

for anybody else, are they close enough in your estimation that their landing spot (NO or TEN) would be the deciding factor & drive your decision in opting for one or the other?

i'm not a big fan of saints owner, but think he might not be there much longer.

not sure about the skill position players... horn could be in decline with eroding skills (looked great in 2004 but hurt a lot last season so hard to tell... i think he is in mid-thirties soon & can't play forever)... stallworth is good if not great... it is unclear at present if he has what it takes to ever be WR1... deuce is a stud when healthy... but has been hurt a lot lately.

payton has a rep for being good with QB (though i don't think it is as sterling & impeccable a resume as chow... though some would say chow's was compiled in college & he is yet unproven in NFL)...

TEN's skill position players don't necessarily excite me a bunch... with oft-injured chris brown, travis henry's status uncertain... bennet maybe more of a miscast WR2 who looked better opposite derek mason... brandon jones, courtney roby & roydell williams are promising but raw... in case of titans as well as saints, though, it would seem reasonable to assume both front offices, scouts & coaching staffs will try & surround their blue chip QB prospects with skill position talent & playmakers in the future as needed.

 

[diesel7982]

Can I get a further elaboration on the "Stallworth is good if not great" comment?

 

[Bob Magaw]

Can I get a further elaboration on the "Stallworth is good if not great" comment?

he finished #20 among WRs in one of my leagues in 2005 (PPR)... not referring to previous output. i would call #20 good, not great...

* that said, didn't really want this thread to be about stallworth...

 

[Big]

Hey Bob,

Stallworth is not that good. He is a #2 and they need a #1 to replace Horn eventually.

 

[-OZ-]

at this point, i am leaning towards taking vince young with the #5 pick in upcoming dynasty draft (anticipating RBs bush, williams, white & maroney gone by that slot)...

i'm guessing leinert ends up in NO & young in TEN... after thinking about it some more, i realized if young ends up in NO & leinert in TEN, i would probably flip flop & opt for leinert... i guess a testament to the esteem i hold norm chow in.

for anybody else, are they close enough in your estimation that their landing spot (NO or TEN) would be the deciding factor & drive your decision in opting for one or the other?

i'm not a big fan of saints owner, but think he might not be there much longer.

not sure about the skill position players... horn could be in decline with eroding skills (looked great in 2004 but hurt a lot last season so hard to tell... i think he is in mid-thirties soon & can't play forever)... stallworth is good if not great... it is unclear at present if he has what it takes to ever be WR1... deuce is a stud when healthy... but has been hurt a lot lately.

payton has a rep for being good with QB (though i don't think it is as sterling & impeccable a resume as chow... though some would say chow's was compiled in college & he is yet unproven in NFL)...

TEN's skill position players don't necessarily excite me a bunch... with oft-injured chris brown, travis henry's status uncertain... bennet maybe more of a miscast WR2 who looked better opposite derek mason... brandon jones, courtney roby & roydell williams are promising but raw... in case of titans as well as saints, though, it would seem reasonable to assume both front offices, scouts & coaching staffs will try & surround their blue chip QB prospects with skill position talent & playmakers in the future as needed.

FWIW, I agree - I'd take either on the Titans over the Saints.

 

[Sinrman]

Personally, I would think either QB would want to be drafted by the Saints this year, simply because they have more potential on offense. The Titans are iffy on offense at best.

 

[Wildman]

Personally, I would think either QB would want to be drafted by the Saints this year, simply because they have more potential on offense. The Titans are iffy on offense at best.

Personnel-wise, I agree. Quality of coaching, I strongly disagree. Jeff Fisher may be the most underrated head coach in the NFL today. Norm Chow did a very good job with a young offense. This group should improve tremendously from year to year. New Orleans' current offensive unit has McCallister coming off of a major injury and two good receivers (one on their way down, the other possibly on his way up), but they have underachieved...is that bad coaching, the players, or the organization as a whole? I think a combination of all three.

The Titans have a pretty strong organization, excellent scouts, and excellent coaching. They had to unload all their players over a 3 year period due to cap constraints.

I'd rather have VY because is ceiling of talent is higher than Leinart's and he has that intangible leadership skill. Vick doesn't have it, not sure now if McNabb can re-gain it in Philly.

 

[Bob Magaw]

vince young has freakish upside... he may well be an unprecedented physical & athletic specimen at his position... critics say a top athlete is not the same thing as a top position prospect...

imo, VY will improve... if he lands in that ideal spot (TEN), with mentor mcnair & coaching support of chow, he already seems to have the intangibles, work ethic, character, passion for the game & desire to get better the great ones have.

scouting is a complex thing in which you have to explore the prospect from multiple perspectives... at one level, it is important to be realistic & ground observations & insights into a framework situated within historical precedents & context, that takes into account trends, etc...

on another level, scouting is an act of imagination... prospects careers have a sort of arc & trajectory... looking at where players came from & how they got there can often (not always of course) be suggestive about how the rest of their career is likely to unfold.

young has an impressive trajectory going so far... best player in state of texas & was best prep in the nation by some scouts... by his junior year wins national championship, defeating one of the top collegiate programs & runs in ncaa history... faces a team with potentially THREE top 5-10 first round picks (bush & leinert could go 1-2... white to GB at 5 or ARI at 10) & outshines them all.

maybe i am a gambler & more risk tolerant than some... though i concede leinert is more polished... if those who have looked at VYs intangibles are correct in saying he will get better as a PASSER AND QB (it is hard to ignore how much he has ALREADY improved from freshman to senior season)... he should be pretty good no matter what... his upside... the most dangerous running QB in league history (vick quicker/faster... though not necessarily by a lot... but young far bigger, stronger, & more resilient)... overall, the kind of prospect with the chance to be viewed in a few years as one of the top OVERALL players to come into the NFL in the past few decades... his ceiling & upside imo could be that high.

but than leinert is being compared by some scouts as the most polished & refined QB to enter the NFL since peyton manning... & manning is arguably one of the top players in the past decade or two... for those who think this is an apt comparison, it seems kind of crazy to take on risk of young (thinking out loud here)... i'm just not sure how accurate the manning comparison is...

slight concerns commonly cited with leinert... arm strength (a few scouts i respect are CONVINCED he has sufficient arm strength to make all the throws... back to manning, he certainly doesn't have the cannon of a palmer)... he had shoulder surgery as prep (i think throwing side?) & then on his elbow last offseason... also, will he look as good if not handing off to bush/white & throwing to 6'5 all american WRs like mike williams & dwayne jarrett... if his OL is not as good at keeping pressure off, can he adsjust (while clearly not as mobile as VY, he seems to have the same field awareness, pocket sense, nifty feet & requisite minimum escapability speed & quickness such as some other QBs that also weren't/aren't "FAST", but turned out pretty good, nonetheless... ie - marino, brady, etc)...

though i like young, as i said above, it is close enough to me (& though they bring different things to the table... both of them bring some off-the charts attributes & intangibles in their respective strengths) that if leinert goes to TEN i am pulling the trigger on him.

if some dynasty teams need an instant starter (not me... i can afford to be patient... have mcnair if in fact young goes there), leinert is more likely to play right away, so that should be weighed into the decision.