Vince Young (1 Viewer)

[Weiner Dog]

I know VY's hype entering the '07 campaign was extremely high and maybe he didn't live-up to everybody's expectations, but the raw data seems like he improved (...as opposed to regressed) year-over-year.

2006

QB rating - 66.7

Completion % - 51.5%

Yards/Attempt - 6.2 yards

Yards/Game - 146.6

2007

QB rating - 71.1

Completion % - 62.3%

Yards/Attempt - 6.7 yards

Yards/Game - 169.7

Most importantly, the Titans finished the '07 regular season with a 10-6 record and made the playoffs. In '06, the Titans finished 8-8 and obviously missed the playoffs.

Granted, Young's TD-INT ratio was worse in '07 (9-17) vs '06 (12-13) and this cannot entirely be blamed on the week WR/TE corp. Young has less rushing yards & TD's in '07, but I would assume most understand Young was battling a leg injury.

Do you feel Young progressed or regressed as a passer from '06 to '07?

 

[Phlash]

That completion rating boost is undeniable. The TD/INT ratio is more of than not a struggle for young QBs. I'd venture to say the younger the QB, the more INTs he'll throw.

He's slowly improving. I'd say by year 4 or 5 he'll be an 85+ QB rating guy.

 

[BoltBacker]

And just think how much better he'd be if he had NFL quality receivers and a running game that could muster 4y/c?

It's crazy that 24yo QB's get so much criticism.

The only issue I have with Young is that TD/TO ratio... he'll have to reverse that in the near future if TEN is going to be a real factor in the AFC. If they acquire a franchise type RB they might be able to get by with a 50/50 ratio but with their current stable of RB's there's no way 9TD/20TO is going to cut it.

 

[Weiner Dog]

...there's no way 9TD/20TO is going to cut it.

Not to be nit-picky, but he did he have 3 rushing TD's in '07. Still, you're absolutely correct...a 12-20 TD/TO ratio is not condusive to winning. NOTE: His TD/TO ratio in '06 was actually 19-16.

 

[the Jag Zone]

VY is overrated and over hyped.. and he will never win and NFL Championship... I repeat... NEVER!!

IE: Mike Vick II (the sequel)

 

[Weiner Dog]

I also took a hard look at Young's first 8 games vs his last 8 games in the '07 season, and it seems like he was two different QB's.

1st-Half of '07

Completions - 93

Attempts - 151

Completion % - 61.6%

Yards - 855

Yards/Attempt - 5.7

3 TD's

8 INT's

2nd-Half of '07

Completions - 145

Attempts - 231

Completion % - 62.8%

Yards - 1691

Yards/Attempt - 7.3

6 TD's

9 INT's

Armed with Roydell Williams, Justin Gage and Bo Scaife as starting WR's/TE's in the 2nd-half of the season, Young's 1) yards/attempt and 2) completion % ranked in the Top-15 for NFL QB's in the last 8 games.

 

[the Jag Zone]

I repeat... NEVER !!!!!!

 

[Brewzers]

I also took a hard look at Young's first 8 games vs his last 8 games in the '07 season, and it seems like he was two different QB's.

1st-Half of '07

Completions - 93

Attempts - 151

Completion % - 61.6%

Yards - 855

Yards/Attempt - 5.7

3 TD's

8 INT's

2nd-Half of '07

Completions - 145

Attempts - 231

Completion % - 62.8%

Yards - 1691

Yards/Attempt - 7.3

6 TD's

9 INT's

Armed with Roydell Williams, Justin Gage and Bo Scaife as starting WR's/TE's in the 2nd-half of the season, Young's 1) yards/attempt and 2) completion % ranked in the Top-15 for NFL QB's in the last 8 games.

Thats an amazing split. I'm optimistic, but he is going to need some weapons and a the Titans will need to stretch the field in order to maximize VY's talents.

 

[krsone21]

I repeat... NEVER !!!!!!

Could you repeat that please, I couldn't hear you!!!!

 

[the Jag Zone]

I repeat... NEVER !!!!!!

Could you repeat that please, I couldn't hear you!!!!

NEVER

 

[Jeff Haseley]

Interesting info Weiner Dog. Young did have a spike in his passing numbers in the second half, perhaps it was all thanks to Albert Haynesworth. Hear me out... Tennessee's run defense, was pretty stout in the first half of the season, but when Albert Haynesworth went down with a bad hamstring/groin, their run defense took a big dive and to compensate, the Titans were forced to pass, because their game plan was altered. Beginning week 10 the Titans lost 4 of their next 5 games. Three of those five games, Young had 2 TD passes with 1 TD pass in each of the other two games

What am I saying with this? I don't know, but it seems like Young's success was directly or indirectly correlated to the Titans struggles against the run - which translates to, if Tennessee plays their style of game, Vince isn't asked to play Superman. If they can play their game, which is mainly built around a strong running attack, then Young isn't asked to pass to win the game.

As for Young, he has always been one that has elevated certain aspects of his game if he decides to put extra emphasis on improving it. Young is a work in progress and his stats this year show that he is improving in his passing game, but it doesn't necessarily translate to wins - at least not yet. He is not on a team that is conducive to big passing numbers, but neither was Donovan McNabb in his first few years in Philadelphia. If Tennessee can attract a WR in the free agency market like DJ Hackett or even Bryant Johnson then maybe we'll see a change to the Titans offense that might feature more passing plays for Young.

Just my thoughts on this topic

 

[Tanner9919]

...there's no way 9TD/20TO is going to cut it.

Not to be nit-picky, but he did he have 3 rushing TD's in '07. Still, you're absolutely correct...a 12-20 TD/TO ratio is not condusive to winning. NOTE: His TD/TO ratio in '06 was actually 19-16.

He has talent no doubt, but have to believe Norm Chow knows a thing or two about football and if he'sw critical of Young, it shouldn't be summarily dismissed ( and neither should Chow have been dismissed from Tenn.. )most young QB's are a work in progress for 4-5 years, like Eli, like Elway, etc..so VY gets the benefit of the doubt there..his comp % is very good for a young QB, so thats a promising sign...maybe if the surround him with some decent WRs he';ll develop into something special. The guy knows how to win ball games, and thats really the only stat that matters..

 

[Weiner Dog]

...there's no way 9TD/20TO is going to cut it.

Not to be nit-picky, but he did he have 3 rushing TD's in '07. Still, you're absolutely correct...a 12-20 TD/TO ratio is not condusive to winning. NOTE: His TD/TO ratio in '06 was actually 19-16.

his comp % is very good for a young QB, so thats a promising sign...maybe if the surround him with some decent WRs he';ll develop into something special. The guy knows how to win ball games, and thats really the only stat that matters..

As a Young owner, I hope his improved completion % is not a result of a water-downed offense with mostly dump-off passes. Of all the QB's in '07 with a completion % greater than 62%, Young had the lowest yards/attempt. Granted, the first (lousy) 8 games of the season was a major drag on his overall stats, but...hey...stats are stats.

 

[the Jag Zone]

he's a good athlete playing QB..

he will NEVER be any more than that...

..yeah I'm stilled sore that MJD got screwed out of ROY honors last year...

but.. let's hand it to the Media.. they can get things done when they want to...

 

[gregjcross]

Why is VY going to continue to be a back up fantasy player ??? Because TENN (like BUFF) doesn't buy the top free agents that other teams do (See Dallas and NE) adn the coaches really enjoy a conservative style.

They would rather emphasize defense and win ugly.

Bottom line, it doesnt matter if VY improves, he is not going to be front line fantasy material.

 

[FUBAR]

Why is VY going to continue to be a back up fantasy player ??? Because TENN (like BUFF) doesn't buy the top free agents that other teams do (See Dallas and NE) adn the coaches really enjoy a conservative style. They would rather emphasize defense and win ugly.Bottom line, it doesnt matter if VY improves, he is not going to be front line fantasy material.

This is a valid point. McNair had a couple seasons where he put up good stats, but overall, he was never a FF Force. When's the last time Tennessee had a great WR? They seem to like solid RBs (not even gamebreakers there) and TEs - conservative / power running and defense; some will say this is how football is supposed to be played, but it sure doesn't help in FF. IMO, Young will do very well in Tennessee. Provided he cuts down his INTs (and I think he will), he'll win many games and I do see a championship or two in his future. As far as his FF prospects, he won't ever be elite. He'll peak at around a low QB1, 8-12ish including his running stats. Good, but perhaps not a good value.

 

[Da Guru]

Interesting info Weiner Dog. Young did have a spike in his passing numbers in the second half, perhaps it was all thanks to Albert Haynesworth. Hear me out... Tennessee's run defense, was pretty stout in the first half of the season, but when Albert Haynesworth went down with a bad hamstring/groin, their run defense took a big dive and to compensate, the Titans were forced to pass, because their game plan was altered. Beginning week 10 the Titans lost 4 of their next 5 games. Three of those five games, Young had 2 TD passes with 1 TD pass in each of the other two gamesWhat am I saying with this? I don't know, but it seems like Young's success was directly or indirectly correlated to the Titans struggles against the run - which translates to, if Tennessee plays their style of game, Vince isn't asked to play Superman. If they can play their game, which is mainly built around a strong running attack, then Young isn't asked to pass to win the game. As for Young, he has always been one that has elevated certain aspects of his game if he decides to put extra emphasis on improving it. Young is a work in progress and his stats this year show that he is improving in his passing game, but it doesn't necessarily translate to wins - at least not yet. He is not on a team that is conducive to big passing numbers, but neither was Donovan McNabb in his first few years in Philadelphia. If Tennessee can attract a WR in the free agency market like DJ Hackett or even Bryant Johnson then maybe we'll see a change to the Titans offense that might feature more passing plays for Young. Just my thoughts on this topic

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Titans were 0-3 with Albert out of the lineup.

 

[Andy Herron]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

 

[sho nuff]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

Just had to bold that...thats funny. And BS.And yes, his rushing numbers suffered...things tend to do that when you have a hurt leg.

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.

I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

 

[Andy Herron]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

Just had to bold that...thats funny. And BS.And yes, his rushing numbers suffered...things tend to do that when you have a hurt leg.

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.

I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

The proof is in the pudding. It's not like his leg was injured all year. That's a lame excuse anyway.By not being fleet-footed enough I'm meaning that he doesn't have that kind of escapability from a collapsing pocket. He does his damage in open space. He just isn't finding that open space as much because, like I said, teams are containing him in the pocket.

 

[Banger]

VY had a lousy year. His #'s may have improved slightly but due to the hype, draft position, etc. '07 was a disappointing season.

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

I think he pretty much stayed the same. which is well below average. I didn't think he was very good last season either. Kind of shows you what a joke the pro bowl is when Vince made it over Brady last season.

 

[the Jag Zone]

I repeat... NEVER !!!!!!

Could you repeat that please, I couldn't hear you!!!!

NEVER

I repeat ... NEVER..

 

[sho nuff]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

Just had to bold that...thats funny. And BS.And yes, his rushing numbers suffered...things tend to do that when you have a hurt leg.

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.

I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

The proof is in the pudding. It's not like his leg was injured all year. That's a lame excuse anyway.By not being fleet-footed enough I'm meaning that he doesn't have that kind of escapability from a collapsing pocket. He does his damage in open space. He just isn't finding that open space as much because, like I said, teams are containing him in the pocket.

It is like it was hurt for much of the year.And how is it BS that one of the QB's biggest weapons...his legs...are injurred and it has no effect? Or little effect?

And he is fleet footed...and does escape the pressure quite a bit.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

Just had to bold that...thats funny. And BS.And yes, his rushing numbers suffered...things tend to do that when you have a hurt leg.

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.

I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

Yeah...the rest of that post may have been dead on...or not. I'll never know, 'cause I just can't read through the laughter after that one sentence.Hysterical.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

NFL teams have the card on Vince Young at this point, and it's not a complicated one. Contain him in the pocket and make him beat you with the pass. He struggles escaping pocket pressure due to his size and not being fleet-footed enough. While his rush attempts per game increased slightly (6.2 from 5.5), the production dropped significantly (total rush yards fell from 552 to 395, and yards-per-attempt fell dramatically, from 6.7 to 4.2. A full 2.5 yards).

While his completion percentage did increase, he's still not getting the ball down the field. Most of his completions are the result of so many hitches, screens, and dump passes which is why his yards-per-attempt remains low (from 6.2 to 6.7). His TD pass total fell from 12 to 9 (rush TDs from 7 to 3) while his interceptions increased from 13 to 17. This is a direct result of him being forced to throw from the pocket against defenses that he still struggles reading. That may never change. The argument can be made that he needs some quality receivers, but I don't know if that would result in a cure-all. Especially when it comes to his accuracy.

Bottom line, he has regressed.

I think Norm Chow was becoming frustrated with trying to develop him and it was beginning to show, so they let him go.

Truth be told, I don't think Jeff Fisher really wanted to draft him to begin with, and would have preferred local product Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt). But the front office and ownership had other ideas. Now they have to live with it. He hasn't shown me enough to make me think he has a whole lot of promise.

Just had to bold that...thats funny. And BS.And yes, his rushing numbers suffered...things tend to do that when you have a hurt leg.

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.

I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

The proof is in the pudding. It's not like his leg was injured all year. That's a lame excuse anyway.By not being fleet-footed enough I'm meaning that he doesn't have that kind of escapability from a collapsing pocket. He does his damage in open space. He just isn't finding that open space as much because, like I said, teams are containing him in the pocket.

It is like it was hurt for much of the year.And how is it BS that one of the QB's biggest weapons...his legs...are injurred and it has no effect? Or little effect?

And he is fleet footed...and does escape the pressure quite a bit.

Healthy VY.For starters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUYAmu1w-ig&feature=relat

 

[houndirish]

I tend to think Vince Young wasn't as good as everyone made him out to be a year ago, and isn't as bad as everyone is making him out to be now. Athletic mobile quarterbacks seemingly catch the league by surprise in the early going, making big plays and gaining popularity with fans/media. Then opposing coaching staff's have enough tape that they can gameplan. Now athleticism by itself doesn't cut it. The guy has to show he can overcome a scheme designed to specifically stop him. Young won a lot more games with his legs than he did with his arms. Methinks history has shown that legs by themselves don't meet the longterm grade. That being said, I think VY is more than simply a scrambler but it will take him time to learn the nuances of the game. It took McNabb several season's to learn how to effectively pass within the pocket, a skill he had to learn since every opposing coordinator knew their best chances of success were tied to keeping McNabb in the backfield. However once D-Mac elevated his game the Eagles offesne was a completely different animal. Young doesn't have any weapons and isn't a pure posket passer. That spells learning curve. But it's far too soon to put any label (bust or future perennial pro bowler) on him.

 

[Brewzers]

I tend to think Vince Young wasn't as good as everyone made him out to be a year ago, and isn't as bad as everyone is making him out to be now. Athletic mobile quarterbacks seemingly catch the league by surprise in the early going, making big plays and gaining popularity with fans/media. Then opposing coaching staff's have enough tape that they can gameplan. Now athleticism by itself doesn't cut it. The guy has to show he can overcome a scheme designed to specifically stop him. Young won a lot more games with his legs than he did with his arms. Methinks history has shown that legs by themselves don't meet the longterm grade. That being said, I think VY is more than simply a scrambler but it will take him time to learn the nuances of the game. It took McNabb several season's to learn how to effectively pass within the pocket, a skill he had to learn since every opposing coordinator knew their best chances of success were tied to keeping McNabb in the backfield. However once D-Mac elevated his game the Eagles offesne was a completely different animal. Young doesn't have any weapons and isn't a pure posket passer. That spells learning curve. But it's far too soon to put any label (bust or future perennial pro bowler) on him.

I think thats a fair assessment. Vince Young has to be able to pass effectively at the NFL level if he is going to make it and reach his potential. No argument there. Vince is a dual threat QB, who thrives when the field is stretched. Last year, they didn't have the complimentary skill players to do that. The Titans will need to get those weapons on board if they are ever going to see what Vince is capable of. They need to make teams pay a big price to keep a "spy" on VY.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I tend to think Vince Young wasn't as good as everyone made him out to be a year ago, and isn't as bad as everyone is making him out to be now. Athletic mobile quarterbacks seemingly catch the league by surprise in the early going, making big plays and gaining popularity with fans/media. Then opposing coaching staff's have enough tape that they can gameplan. Now athleticism by itself doesn't cut it. The guy has to show he can overcome a scheme designed to specifically stop him. Young won a lot more games with his legs than he did with his arms. Methinks history has shown that legs by themselves don't meet the longterm grade. That being said, I think VY is more than simply a scrambler but it will take him time to learn the nuances of the game. It took McNabb several season's to learn how to effectively pass within the pocket, a skill he had to learn since every opposing coordinator knew their best chances of success were tied to keeping McNabb in the backfield. However once D-Mac elevated his game the Eagles offesne was a completely different animal. Young doesn't have any weapons and isn't a pure posket passer. That spells learning curve. But it's far too soon to put any label (bust or future perennial pro bowler) on him.

I think thats a fair assessment. Vince Young has to be able to pass effectively at the NFL level if he is going to make it and reach his potential. No argument there. Vince is a dual threat QB, who thrives when the field is stretched. Last year, they didn't have the complimentary skill players to do that. The Titans will need to get those weapons on board if they are ever going to see what Vince is capable of. They need to make teams pay a big price to keep a "spy" on VY.

Good posts.At Texas, the offense was pretty much unstoppable because when D's played "to stop VY" this opened things up for the other very capable, dangerous weapons in the offense: David Thomas, Jamaal Charles, Selvin Young, Ramonce Taylor, Limas Sweed, and Billy Pittman. Young would hit them all over the field, all day long, until the D changed their look. If they played straight up, or tried to take away the passing game, Young and the RBs would eat them alive in the running game or with Young taking off on what would have been coverage sacks and turning them into positive yards.

The problem in Tennessee is that the defense only has to respect Young. He's their only scary offensive threat. There is no either/or, "pick your poison" scenario.

 

[Frank Black]

Weiner Dog, forgive me for borrowing your post, but I am going to cut and paste for a separate thread regarding the Madden Curse.

 

[santo71]

In Vince's first year @ Texas he was a phenom. He ran all over everyone.

In his second year, people were saying he wasn't as good as he looked in his first year. Why? Because they knew that in order to win a championship, he needed to understand what he was seeing from the defense, and where his guys would be in the passing game. Once he began to get this, he started opening things up and letting the guys around him make plays and made a remarkable improvement in year 3.

I don't think he'll be awesome next year, or maybe even the year after that, but he will have a stretch of 3-5 years where he will dominate his opponents, which I believe will translate to FF

and hopefully a Super Bowl ring or two...

 

[Hawk]

I think he pretty much stayed the same. which is well below average. I didn't think he was very good last season either. Kind of shows you what a joke the pro bowl is when Vince made it over Brady last season.

Surely you realize that Brady made it over Vince but chose not to play, so Vince was one of the alternates. And I don't even think he was the first alternate, but several QB's passed on going that year so Vince got in.

 

[sho nuff]

I think he pretty much stayed the same. which is well below average. I didn't think he was very good last season either. Kind of shows you what a joke the pro bowl is when Vince made it over Brady last season.

He was like the 6th or 7th option for the AFC when people (including Brady numbnuts) withdrew.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I think he pretty much stayed the same. which is well below average. I didn't think he was very good last season either. Kind of shows you what a joke the pro bowl is when Vince made it over Brady last season.

Surely you realize that Brady made it over Vince but chose not to play, so Vince was one of the alternates. And I don't even think he was the first alternate, but several QB's passed on going that year so Vince got in.

Yes, surely a knowledgeable poster like Belichick's Revenge was aware of such trivia.

 

[Two Deep]

http://support.tennessean.com/blogs/?p=6281

Kevin Mawaes assesment of Vince Young. Sounds like he doesn't know the play book very well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post is in: Titans/NFL

« Yet another sign the Titans need more offensive firepowerDefensive coordinator intrigue »Mawae’s assessment of Young

by Paul Kuharsky

Three cheers for Kevin Mawae, the Titans veteran center who spoke with great candor earlier this week on the subject of Vince Young.

Mawae, who didn’t play the last couple games because of a calf injury, laid low in the post game locker room and wasn’t part of the open locker room clean out session.

But in his weekly spot with my pals on The Wake Up Zone on 104.5 FM his assessment of Young was excellent.

Here it is:

“He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing.

“We’ve had some issues and situations where the wrong personnel was in the huddle or we called the wrong formation or a different play and that happens with a young quarterback. But we need a quarterback who understands what’s going on and knows, is a student of the game. He’d say, ‘Well hey, we can’t run that play out of this personnel or that play out of this formation, this is what we are going to run because this is what we have in the huddle.’ So many times this year we had those kind of things pop up. …

“We’re still young in so many areas that when things happen there are guys that just didn’t know. So much of being a football player is being a trained puppet and when somebody tells you something you just go do it. So it doesn’t all go on the quarterback. But when you’re quarterback is a better student of the game, then it definitely makes a bigger difference.

“(Left tackle) Michael Roos is a smart player, when he hears a formation and a play call that doesn’t match up, it’s, ‘Hey, we can’t run that play’ or whatever. That’s taken place throughout the season as well. There are things you just know we don’t have in the game plan. It helps when the quarterback is more in tune with the game itself and things like that.

“Next year it’s going to be better because the game is going to slow down for him, it’s going to be a lot different, he’s going to understand how teams are playing against him and things like that. More than anything we need to get some more tools to help him out, a big play receiver and things like that. There is so much more than can make this team better and I am sure Mike Reinfeldt and Jeff Fisher are going to do that for us.”

 

[krsone21]

http://support.tennessean.com/blogs/?p=6281

Kevin Mawaes assesment of Vince Young. Sounds like he doesn't know the play book very well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post is in: Titans/NFL

« Yet another sign the Titans need more offensive firepowerDefensive coordinator intrigue »Mawae’s assessment of Young

by Paul Kuharsky

Three cheers for Kevin Mawae, the Titans veteran center who spoke with great candor earlier this week on the subject of Vince Young.

Mawae, who didn’t play the last couple games because of a calf injury, laid low in the post game locker room and wasn’t part of the open locker room clean out session.

But in his weekly spot with my pals on The Wake Up Zone on 104.5 FM his assessment of Young was excellent.

Here it is:

“He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing.

“We’ve had some issues and situations where the wrong personnel was in the huddle or we called the wrong formation or a different play and that happens with a young quarterback. But we need a quarterback who understands what’s going on and knows, is a student of the game. He’d say, ‘Well hey, we can’t run that play out of this personnel or that play out of this formation, this is what we are going to run because this is what we have in the huddle.’ So many times this year we had those kind of things pop up. …

“We’re still young in so many areas that when things happen there are guys that just didn’t know. So much of being a football player is being a trained puppet and when somebody tells you something you just go do it. So it doesn’t all go on the quarterback. But when you’re quarterback is a better student of the game, then it definitely makes a bigger difference.

“(Left tackle) Michael Roos is a smart player, when he hears a formation and a play call that doesn’t match up, it’s, ‘Hey, we can’t run that play’ or whatever. That’s taken place throughout the season as well. There are things you just know we don’t have in the game plan. It helps when the quarterback is more in tune with the game itself and things like that.

“Next year it’s going to be better because the game is going to slow down for him, it’s going to be a lot different, he’s going to understand how teams are playing against him and things like that. More than anything we need to get some more tools to help him out, a big play receiver and things like that. There is so much more than can make this team better and I am sure Mike Reinfeldt and Jeff Fisher are going to do that for us.”

Interesting article, I hope the Titans can get Vince Young a playmaker or two before the season starts yet. I have him in a league and I think he has potential, its just a matter of getting him some playmakers and him also becoming more of a student of the game.

 

[Bri]

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

First, Gage was way better than anyone expected and better than this board gives him credit for. It's shocking to type but ...really, people around here need to throw that guy a bone.Hartsock was a backup TE and he's a fine backup TE for any team. I can't recall if he's with the Titans anymore.Ealy was the Titans last WR on the depth chart for most of the season but Vince has a rapport with him. It's unclear what the Titans plans are for him but to be Vince's security blanket at times. I don't disagree with your sentiment I just feel like you picked the wrong guys.The Titans drafted 3 WRs years ago and are hurting from them. Roydell improved last year and a similar improvement will make him a good NFL WR. However, they needed him to be at that point in 07.Courtney Roby...mehBrandon Jones dropped a zillion balls in 07 and his injury history is setting off flares. He's had a few weeks here and there where he looks like he'll be a good WR but the others he looks pretty rough. Again, they needed them to be at their potential(or closer to it) in 07.Whose fault is that? Fishers? WR Coach? Chow? Regardless, it was an obvious problem and one that's difficult to address now. IF IF Jones and Roydell will be solid in 08, they don't need to sign a WR in FA. Williams and Ealy can be there young developping WRs filling out the WR corps and it all fits nicely. IF they don't hit their potential, their stuck again. Darned if they do, darned if they don't. Also, FWIW, Williams is a good lookin' WR. I think alot of FFers will be picking him up in 2008 once he gets a little bit more exposure.The TEs are solid with Alge and Scaife.IMO, and it does seem to only be opinion since Fish isn't gonna call out Chow too harshly in public, Chow did not develop Young and the O at a quick enough rate. The difference in how Kerry Collins moved the ball and how Vince did was dramatic. After Vince saw Kerry moving the ball, he did improve. He saw something Kerry did and grasped it. There's little doubt in my mind Fisher wanted to know what was up with that. Even the WRs looked better then.

 

[sho nuff]

Chow was fired because his offenses were not that good. They were criticized when they hired him as people were unsure of it...now that his offenses were bad, people are criticizing him for being fired. Prior to Chow being there...they were scoring close to 350 points per season...his first year in town...299...then about 324 I think...then maybe 301 or so this year. They ranked 22, 16, and 21 in total offense in his 3 years in Tennessee (the first with no VY). Thats not very good and a huge reason why he was fired.I think he has shown enough that there is some promise...but he does need to work on quite a few things...as does the front office. No QB is going to have great luck trotting out Ben Hartsock, Justin Gage, and Byron Ealy for a playoff game.

First, Gage was way better than anyone expected and better than this board gives him credit for. It's shocking to type but ...really, people around here need to throw that guy a bone.Hartsock was a backup TE and he's a fine backup TE for any team. I can't recall if he's with the Titans anymore.Ealy was the Titans last WR on the depth chart for most of the season but Vince has a rapport with him. It's unclear what the Titans plans are for him but to be Vince's security blanket at times. I don't disagree with your sentiment I just feel like you picked the wrong guys.

I picked the guys that were on the field for their playoff game.And Gage being better than expected...does not make him a good or great WR. He is a decent posession guy...nothing more.

 

[Marc Faletti]

Mawae confirms some other things we heard this offseason, that Vince Young hasn't been working like he did in college. At UT, for example, Young organized and ran the unofficial summer practices on a grueling pace; now, it seems, he's less consumed by improvement. If that doesn't change, a lot of us who backed him because we knew he was talented and thought he'd remain a hard worker will be made to look foolish.

Including and especially this guy. [thumbs to own chest.]

 

[Abraham]

Mawae confirms some other things we heard this offseason, that Vince Young hasn't been working like he did in college. At UT, for example, Young organized and ran the unofficial summer practices on a grueling pace; now, it seems, he's less consumed by improvement. If that doesn't change, a lot of us who backed him because we knew he was talented and thought he'd remain a hard worker will be made to look foolish.

Including and especially this guy. [thumbs to own chest.]

Nowhere does it say that.

 

[fatness]

Mawae confirms some other things we heard this offseason, that Vince Young hasn't been working like he did in college. At UT, for example, Young organized and ran the unofficial summer practices on a grueling pace; now, it seems, he's less consumed by improvement.

Where did he say that?

 

[Marc Faletti]

From Mawae:

"He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing."

"He's got to be committed." "Needs to become a student of the game." That sounds like a QB who isn't working hard enough, right? And it also sounds like a guy who isn't entirely committed to improvement. At least, it sure sounds that way to me.

And as I said, it confirms what we've heard from other Titans insiders this offseason.

For Longhorn fans like me, it's a bummer to realize he may not be giving his all.

 

[Abraham]

From Mawae:"He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing.""He's got to be committed." "Needs to become a student of the game." That sounds like a QB who isn't working hard enough, right? And it also sounds like a guy who isn't entirely committed to improvement. At least, it sure sounds that way to me.And as I said, it confirms what we've heard from other Titans insiders this offseason. For Longhorn fans like me, it's a bummer to realize he may not be giving his all.

I'll ask again: where does it say he's not committed or not a student of the game? It's a steep learning curve, and I haven't heard a single time from a Titans insider or beat-writer or anyone in between that he is dogging it.

 

[sho nuff]

From Mawae:"He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing.""He's got to be committed." "Needs to become a student of the game." That sounds like a QB who isn't working hard enough, right? And it also sounds like a guy who isn't entirely committed to improvement. At least, it sure sounds that way to me.And as I said, it confirms what we've heard from other Titans insiders this offseason. For Longhorn fans like me, it's a bummer to realize he may not be giving his all.

I'll ask again: where does it say he's not committed or not a student of the game? It's a steep learning curve, and I haven't heard a single time from a Titans insider or beat-writer or anyone in between that he is dogging it.

I think its obvious by those quotes that Mawae did not think that Young had been doing enough studying.You can sit back and say that he did not say that he is not committed.But if Mawae thought he was...would he say that he has got to be committed? The he needs to become a student of the game?No writers have said he is "dogging" it. But plenty of insinuated that he needs to do much more...especially with a new OC in town.

 

[EBF]

He was overrated in the first place and he didn't make major strides in his second year. He's an impressive athlete, but playing QB in the NFL is not about athletic ability. It's about throwing the football. I'll be wary of VY until he starts to show more flashes as a passer.

 

[kethnaab]

Vince Young is Kordell Stewart Part 2. I don't want to call him Vick Part 2 because Vick is better than either of them.

Young doesn't have what it takes to become a true NFL Quarterback. He's an athlete, not a QB, and apparently from Maw's own mouth, that hasn't changed yet.

Do a quick look at Stewart's first 2 seasons as a starting QB for the Stilerz and compare them to VY's. The similarities in fantasy performance are frighteningly similar.

 

[sho nuff]

Vince Young is Kordell Stewart Part 2. I don't want to call him Vick Part 2 because Vick is better than either of them.

Ummm...no.

Young doesn't have what it takes to become a true NFL Quarterback. He's an athlete, not a QB, and apparently from Maw's own mouth, that hasn't changed yet.

Except that he is more of a QB than Vick.What Mawae has said is that Vick needed to work more. I don't think many will disagree with that...even Vince.

Do a quick look at Stewart's first 2 seasons as a starting QB for the Stilerz and compare them to VY's. The similarities in fantasy performance are frighteningly similar.

Were they playing with the same players...in the same offense...against the same competition? No...great...thanks for irrelevant information.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I repeat... NEVER !!!!!!

Neither will David Garrard.

 

[fatness]

From Mawae:"He’s got to be committed to becoming an NFL quarterback. What I mean by that is it’s not enough to be an athlete running around any more. He’s got to become a student of the game, be able to know our game plan inside and out so if things don’t go the way he thinks they go, he has the ability to go in there and say, ‘Hey, we should run this’ or ‘I am going to call this play’ or that kind of thing.""He's got to be committed." "Needs to become a student of the game." That sounds like a QB who isn't working hard enough, right? And it also sounds like a guy who isn't entirely committed to improvement. At least, it sure sounds that way to me.

Taken out of context as you've done, you could stretch it to sound that way. Put it together with the rest of what Mawae said, however, and it sounds different, like a vet talking about the natural progression of a young player (and leader) on his team.

“Next year it’s going to be better because the game is going to slow down for him, it’s going to be a lot different, he’s going to understand how teams are playing against him and things like that. More than anything we need to get some more tools to help him out, a big play receiver and things like that. There is so much more than can make this team better and I am sure Mike Reinfeldt and Jeff Fisher are going to do that for us.”

 

[The Duff Man]

I read that Young had an crazy number of TDs dropped by WRs or called back by penalty. Anyone have any other info on this?