Walsh Hands Over 8 Tapes (1 Viewer)

[twitch]

And the floodgates are officially open. Id hate to see the reaction if Walsh were to turn in stuff that really mattered.

 

[Road Warriors]

Im looking for lawsuits at this point. The Boston Herald needs to be held fully accountable for its "Rams Walkthrough" story that completely ruined the SB for some of us before the game was ever even played.

Actually, no. Losing the Super Bowl ruined the Super Bowl for you. As for the Herald story, what makes you think it is incorrect? Someone else may well have that tape. Unless it was destroyed by the league, of course.

Welcome back, GB. Missed your take on the Pats deal. Its in the news again. Get your typing fingers on!As most of us have stated, nothing but smoke unless proof appears of that tape. I guess you can keep saying it really did happen, even with no proof, since we can't prove they didn't do it. But I'm pretty sure that Walsh was your last, best hope of that tape coming out.

 

[twitch]

Im looking for lawsuits at this point. The Boston Herald needs to be held fully accountable for its "Rams Walkthrough" story that completely ruined the SB for some of us before the game was ever even played. The actual loss was just icing on that horrible tasting cake. These 8 tapes dont sound any different than what New England has already turned in. I cant believe this knucklehead Walsh has been sitting on this stuff for 6 years.

I'm sure Plaxico Burress, Eli Manning, et al will sleep far more soundly now, knowing that they're no longer the main focus of your "disappointment litigation."

If youre going to provide pointless commentary, please exclude my opinions from it. much appreciated. Ive got absolutely nothing against the NY Giants.

Sincerest apologies. From your assertation that the Boston Herald ruined the Super Bowl for you, I figured pointless and ridiculous was the way to go here.

1- guess ya had to be there. 2- and be a Pats fan. 3- no problem.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

Not in Roger Goodell's opinion. He knew the Jets game wasnt an isolated incident and he doled out his punishment knowing this fact. The punishment was excessive but what can you do. You ask any Patriots fan and I am sure they would tell you that they would have rather had Belichek suspended for 4 games than to have lost a 1st round pick.You are talking about allowing something that happened off the field to dictate your view of what happened on the field. No matter what taping the Patriots did, they still had to win all of those games.

Did the videotaping give them a competitive advantage?

I played football for a long time and coached it for longer. In my experience, coaches trust TENDENCIES that they have studied over time. If you tell them you have figured out the other teams signals, they would expect the other team to change them before it would do you any good.Goodell said as much at the Super Bowl. He punished the Patriots because technically it was a rules violation. However, he clearly said that if you let the other team steal your signals, shame on you. He even said that other coaches new of this practice and were caught waiving on camera at the Patriots. Does that sound to you like they were gaining some great competitive advantage?

IMO, the vedeotaping did not give them a competitive advantage that would have tipped the scales in favor of a victory.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

What was your idea of punishment? Throw them out of the league?

 

[twitch]

Im looking for lawsuits at this point. The Boston Herald needs to be held fully accountable for its "Rams Walkthrough" story that completely ruined the SB for some of us before the game was ever even played.

Actually, no. Losing the Super Bowl ruined the Super Bowl for you. As for the Herald story, what makes you think it is incorrect? Someone else may well have that tape. Unless it was destroyed by the league, of course.

go get some sleep. and mix in a salad for lunch tomorrow.

 

[David Yudkin]

To save us pages and pages of rehashing positions, let's summarize things to some folks comparing the rules NE broke to jaywalking while others feel it was more of triple homicide.

We've been down this road in many threads as to whether the penalty was stiff enough and how the Pats are cheaters. We don't need to get eveyone in a tizzy on that front all over again.

 

[DropKick]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

 

[CrossEyed]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

Not in Roger Goodell's opinion. He knew the Jets game wasnt an isolated incident and he doled out his punishment knowing this fact. The punishment was excessive but what can you do. You ask any Patriots fan and I am sure they would tell you that they would have rather had Belichek suspended for 4 games than to have lost a 1st round pick.You are talking about allowing something that happened off the field to dictate your view of what happened on the field. No matter what taping the Patriots did, they still had to win all of those games.

Did the videotaping give them a competitive advantage?

I played football for a long time and coached it for longer. In my experience, coaches trust TENDENCIES that they have studied over time. If you tell them you have figured out the other teams signals, they would expect the other team to change them before it would do you any good.Goodell said as much at the Super Bowl. He punished the Patriots because technically it was a rules violation. However, he clearly said that if you let the other team steal your signals, shame on you. He even said that other coaches new of this practice and were caught waiving on camera at the Patriots. Does that sound to you like they were gaining some great competitive advantage?

IMO, the vedeotaping did not give them a competitive advantage that would have tipped the scales in favor of a victory.

So then why didn't they just eliminate the rule and let everyone tape everybody?

 

[fatness]

go get some sleep. and mix in a salad for lunch tomorrow.

This must be the official response of people who have nothing worth saying.

 

[CrossEyed]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

Not in Roger Goodell's opinion. He knew the Jets game wasnt an isolated incident and he doled out his punishment knowing this fact. The punishment was excessive but what can you do. You ask any Patriots fan and I am sure they would tell you that they would have rather had Belichek suspended for 4 games than to have lost a 1st round pick.You are talking about allowing something that happened off the field to dictate your view of what happened on the field. No matter what taping the Patriots did, they still had to win all of those games.

Did the videotaping give them a competitive advantage?

I played football for a long time and coached it for longer. In my experience, coaches trust TENDENCIES that they have studied over time. If you tell them you have figured out the other teams signals, they would expect the other team to change them before it would do you any good.Goodell said as much at the Super Bowl. He punished the Patriots because technically it was a rules violation. However, he clearly said that if you let the other team steal your signals, shame on you. He even said that other coaches new of this practice and were caught waiving on camera at the Patriots. Does that sound to you like they were gaining some great competitive advantage?

IMO, the vedeotaping did not give them a competitive advantage that would have tipped the scales in favor of a victory.

So then why didn't they just eliminate the rule and let everyone tape everybody?

Why not go the other way and outlaw all taping. Have a league employee tape the "coaches tape" and exchange those between teams each week. Then we wouldnt have to deal with this BS. If you believe that the team who ultimately does a more thorough job of taping the other team in preparation for the next weeks game is more of a determining factor in who wins the game than the athletes playing, them more power to you.

 

[AngryPatriot]

PATRIOTS ROCK! Matt Walsh, Joe Walsh, it's all good, baby! We'll see some of your teams in the playoffs again next year and the year after that. I invite all you haters to join the Patriot nation, follow a winner for a change. The hate will lessen and then fall away, you'll feel better. Being a fan is supporting a team, not hating another.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Personally, I think Chuck Noll was an excellent football coach. However, by your standard, you must have hated him and rejected his teams as he stood by and blatantly watched his team ROID out throughout the '70's in the pursuit of World Titles. Wow, name me a coach who meets your standard of integrity.

 

[David Yudkin]

So then why didn't they just eliminate the rule and let everyone tape everybody?

IIRC, teams are allowed to tape things from certain designated areas in a stadium if they ask for (and generally get) permission from the league. I believe the issue for NE was that they were taping from places that they were not authorized to tape from. A lot of this is sketchy in terms of the actual rules and I believe there is a lot of grey zone.

 

[mdog1967]

There is new tapes of the Patriots illegaly recording other games.This isnt the same as the Jets game. New revelations.If you do something illegal in Sept of 2007, any punishment doesnt stop you from further punishment if you are found for doing something (even if similar) in 2002 or 2003.

What you do wake up and take a pill that bled your brain of any common sense. Bill had stated that he saw nothing wrong with what the Pats were doing and was not an infraction as he saw it of the rules. Lets wait see what Goodell has to say before you go down the yellow brick road. If the Commissar says that there are violations that were not known to him through his discussion with Bill then I'll come back here and post a proper "your the man" to your holiness. Get a life dude, its getting old.And get your stupid OBAMA crap off the football site. Take your politics over to the Dummy underground for Christ Sake. I'd say the same thing if you were pimping for McCain over here. This is football and I don't need to know how enlightened you are with your stupid political garbage. I'd turn on the Communist News Network if I wanted to be exposed to a running commentary of putrid politics.

 

[Road Warriors]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Like, say... institutional steriod use for, say in the 70s...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Legal and no rules against.

 

[phthalatemagic]

And get your stupid OBAMA crap off the football site. Take your politics over to the Dummy underground for Christ Sake. I'd say the same thing if you were pimping for McCain over here. This is football and I don't need to know how enlightened you are with your stupid political garbage. I'd turn on the Communist News Network if I wanted to be exposed to a running commentary of putrid politics.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Like, say... institutional steriod use for, say in the 70s...

Do you fans of teams other than the Patriots think that Belichek is the only coach/GM that pushes the limits of league rules? Salary cap violations, tampering violations. Many act like this is the first time a team has pushed the limit in the chase for a Worlds Championship.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Like, say... institutional steriod use for, say in the 70s...

Do you fans of teams other than the Patriots think that Belichek is the only coach/GM that pushes the limits of league rules? Salary cap violations, tampering violations. Many act like this is the first time a team has pushed the limit in the chase for a Worlds Championship.

Legal and no rules against.The NFL banned it in 1982.They were a legal prescription drug (not even a controlled substance) until 1988 in the U.S.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Like, say... institutional steriod use for, say in the 70s...

Do you fans of teams other than the Patriots think that Belichek is the only coach/GM that pushes the limits of league rules? Salary cap violations, tampering violations. Many act like this is the first time a team has pushed the limit in the chase for a Worlds Championship.

Legal and no rules against.The NFL banned it in 1982.They were a legal prescription drug (not even a controlled substance) until 1988 in the U.S.

Were they performance enhancing drugs and did the Steelers get a competitive advantage with their use?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

 

[Road Warriors]

Legal and no rules against.

O RLY? Steriods were legal in the 70s, with without prescription? I musta missed that...

 

[mdog1967]

If this is true, Belichick needs to be suspended, and the Patriots given another significant fine. The league needs to send a message here.

Why, exactly? This is 8 more tapes of exactly the same thing the league has ruled on. Are you one of the "it wasn't enough" crowd, hoping for double jeopardy?

It shows that it wasn't an isolated incident and that Belichick blatantly violated the rules and the integrity of the league. It wasn't enough and now this should be proof enough that more punishment is deserved.And before you ask, I would be saying the same thing if it were the Steelers caught cheating. Personally, I'd be calling for ownership to fire the coach.

But this isn't new information. The original penalty was worded as "the entirety" It wasn't just for the Jets game. It was never "an isolated incident" Go back and read the original coverage, and you'll see that Goodell was aware that this practice has been going on in NE since BB got there. The penalty meted out back in Sept was for all of this type of behavior. But don't let facts get in the way of your crusade. Have fun.

So Goodell knew they were cheating for 7 years and that was his idea of punishment? Pathetic. It wasn't enough.And how do you feel good about rooting for a coach that resorts to cheating? Does integrity mean nothing to you?

Is every Pittsburgh fan fixated on this old story? I guess blowing repeated AFC Championships games makes you bitter.

Not bitter in the least. The Steelers have provided me with plenty of entertainment in my lifetime. Just think it's interesting how people defend a blatant rules violation. Personally, I would want someone like that to coach the team I watch.

Like, say... institutional steriod use for, say in the 70s...

Do you fans of teams other than the Patriots think that Belichek is the only coach/GM that pushes the limits of league rules? Salary cap violations, tampering violations. Many act like this is the first time a team has pushed the limit in the chase for a Worlds Championship.

Good post, don't try to reason with the rabid haters. I'm a die hard 49er fan and don't give a squat about the Pats but the Patriots are what they are; a team that took every available avenue to win. Just like every other team is supposed to do they pushed the boundaries. The rat Jets coach who probably took part in a lot of the taping turned them in after things got soured. Why? because the Jets were tampering with Patriots Players and got called out. That Coach will fulfill his obligation to the Jets and then never work again in the NFL. No owner wants to have a disloyal rat working for them.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Legal and no rules against.

O RLY? Steriods were legal in the 70s, with prescription? I musta missed that...

Yes, with a prescription they were totally legal.

 

[Road Warriors]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

True... a chemically enhanced physical advantage would have much less impact on actual game play than a tape.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

True... a chemically enhanced physical advantage would have much less impact on actual game play than a tape.

Many things give you an advantage. Weight training. endurance training. Diet. Computers (waves at the cowboys). At the time it was acceptable, legal and fair, post 1982 it was not.

 

[mdog1967]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

A Justifier, thats right you justify what suits you and look to hammer everyone else when it also suits you, your the guy who says "It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is. Down here in Texas we call that two faced.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Were Steelers doctors writing scripts left, right and center during the '70's? Oh, then that is fine.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Were Steelers doctors writing scripts left, right and center during the '70's? Oh, then that is fine.

It was according to the laws of this land and the rules of the league. Nothing else matters.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Were Steelers doctors writing scripts left, right and center during the '70's? Oh, then that is fine.

Classic deflection technique. Excellent work.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

That's a little absurd. Riding a technicality does not make it o.k. At the time not much was known about it, but obviously it goes without saying that altering your body with substances is a shortcut, which is exactly what we are talking about here. Teams taking shortcuts that are obviously wrong. Not "sketchy", not gray area, wrong.I really don't like the argument that everything that is not written down is up for interpretation. Nothing wrong with it at the time but it doesn't take a saint to look back in retrospect and say that was wrong. Nothing else matters? This is the kind of thing that ruins lives. These aren't greyhounds or horses we're talking about, these are human beings. Where is the perspective?As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

At least this is on topic.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

That's a little absurd. Riding a technicality does not make it o.k. At the time not much was known about it, but obviously it goes without saying that altering your body with substances is a shortcut, which is exactly what we are talking about here. Teams taking shortcuts that are obviously wrong. Not "sketchy", not gray area, wrong.I really don't like the argument that everything that is not written down is up for interpretation. Nothing wrong with it at the time but it doesn't take a saint to look back in retrospect and say that was wrong. Nothing else matters? This is the kind of thing that ruins lives. These aren't greyhounds or horses we're talking about, these are human beings. Where is the perspective?As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

Tell me your punishment if you were Goodell for a day.

 

[kethnaab]

the ridiculous denial of some Pats' homers over this issue is simply pitiful

I'm dead tired of this whole issue, but damn people, trying to deny how this is helpful is just ridiculous, and you're making yourselves out to be fools.

 

[datonn]

My memory could be bad here, but my recollection of why these eight tapes are potentially a big deal is this:

Commissioner Goodell: "You've turned over ALL the tapes, right?!"

Patriots Organization: "Yes."

Commissioner Goodell: "You're sure, right? Because if you say you did and I find out you are lying to me, there will be #### to pay."

Patriots Organization: "No Roger, you've got all our tapes."

My guess as to why this might be a bigger deal than some think it is is NOT because the tapes reveal anything that the Patriots hadn't already admitted to, but the fact that there were tapes that were still out there which showed them breaking league rules that weren't turned over. That's why I think it required Walsh waiting until he was absolutely sure he had his deal before he turned those additional tapes over.

Not saying the Pats didn't admit to filming during previous seasons, because they did. They were supposed to turn over ALL the tapes which were evidence of them breaking the rules...which they apparently did not. Should be interesting to see how this one plays out though, either way.

 

[David Yudkin]

My memory could be bad here, but my recollection of why these eight tapes are potentially a big deal is this:Commissioner Goodell: "You've turned over ALL the tapes, right?!"Patriots Organization: "Yes."Commissioner Goodell: "You're sure, right? Because if you say you did and I find out you are lying to me, there will be #### to pay."Patriots Organization: "No Roger, you've got all our tapes."My guess as to why this might be a bigger deal than some think it is is NOT because the tapes reveal anything that the Patriots hadn't already admitted to, but the fact that there were tapes that were still out there which showed them breaking league rules that weren't turned over. That's why I think it required Walsh waiting until he was absolutely sure he had his deal before he turned those additional tapes over.Not saying the Pats didn't admit to filming during previous seasons, because they did. They were supposed to turn over ALL the tapes which were evidence of them breaking the rules...which they apparently did not. Should be interesting to see how this one plays out though, either way.

We'll find out in due time, but IIRC BB said he turned over everything that they still had in their possession. They suggested that they copied over a lot of tape and recycled it. I'm not sure that the Pats could get in trouble for the copies that Walsh had (that the Pats no longer had in their possession).

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

The debate over whether the tapes effected the outcome of the 2002 AFC Championship isn't worth arguing in terms of the Pats dynasty. At this point who cares, obviously the Pats won plenty of big games without tapes.

What is more interesting to me is the reaction that an owner like Dan Rooney has...that this is basically a non-story. To me it seems like all NFL owners and Commish Goodell have circled the wagons hoping that Sen. Specter and NFL fans don't try to challenge whether millions of dollars were spent under the presumption of witnessing a fair contest that might not have been.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

That's a little absurd. Riding a technicality does not make it o.k. At the time not much was known about it, but obviously it goes without saying that altering your body with substances is a shortcut, which is exactly what we are talking about here. Teams taking shortcuts that are obviously wrong. Not "sketchy", not gray area, wrong.I really don't like the argument that everything that is not written down is up for interpretation. Nothing wrong with it at the time but it doesn't take a saint to look back in retrospect and say that was wrong. Nothing else matters? This is the kind of thing that ruins lives. These aren't greyhounds or horses we're talking about, these are human beings. Where is the perspective?As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

Tell me your punishment if you were Goodell for a day.

I am of the opinion that it should have originally included a suspension for the initial infraction of the Jets game, one game minimum. However as the Patriots did turn over all incriminating evidence at the start, Goodell obviously wanted to get the ordeal over with quickly. Not issuing Belichick a suspension was a mistake.I do not see how Wade Wilson gets suspended for violation of policy but coaching staff for the Patriots did not. How will they move forward? I don't have the foggiest if the newest tape revelations will lead to any further punishment, but I doubt it. I believe that it is Goodell's intention to still move forward believing that it is the best thing for the league, and since the tapes only back up that which has been admitted, everyone will be expected to take that the punishment that has been handed out was good enough. This isn't an especially damning revelation, however the details that are brought to light because of it show that it was handled improperly from the start by the destruction of the original evidence and the tight lipped way the punishment was handed out. Now that they aren't completely in control of how to spin it they have a much worse situation on their hands.Ultimately, they gained more than they stand to lose with the cost of one draft pick for years of violation. It is impossible to gain equity in such a case, but that was hardly the objective at the start.

 

[datonn]

We'll find out in due time, but IIRC BB said he turned over everything that they still had in their possession. They suggested that they copied over a lot of tape and recycled it. I'm not sure that the Pats could get in trouble for the copies that Walsh had (that the Pats no longer had in their possession).

Correct. I just wonder if the issue might all be centered around where and when Walsh got those tapes. But it's all conjecture and speculation at this point...no sense watching all these other guys bash each other's skulls in over Pats love/hate until we get more info from the league. I just think it's sad that one of the most storied franchises in recent years got caught up in all this mess, regardless.

 

[David Yudkin]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

That's a little absurd. Riding a technicality does not make it o.k. At the time not much was known about it, but obviously it goes without saying that altering your body with substances is a shortcut, which is exactly what we are talking about here. Teams taking shortcuts that are obviously wrong. Not "sketchy", not gray area, wrong.I really don't like the argument that everything that is not written down is up for interpretation. Nothing wrong with it at the time but it doesn't take a saint to look back in retrospect and say that was wrong. Nothing else matters? This is the kind of thing that ruins lives. These aren't greyhounds or horses we're talking about, these are human beings. Where is the perspective?As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

Tell me your punishment if you were Goodell for a day.

I am of the opinion that it should have originally included a suspension for the initial infraction of the Jets game, one game minimum. However as the Patriots did turn over all incriminating evidence at the start, Goodell obviously wanted to get the ordeal over with quickly. Not issuing Belichick a suspension was a mistake.I do not see how Wade Wilson gets suspended for violation of policy but coaching staff for the Patriots did not. How will they move forward? I don't have the foggiest if the newest tape revelations will lead to any further punishment, but I doubt it. I believe that it is Goodell's intention to still move forward believing that it is the best thing for the league, and since the tapes only back up that which has been admitted, everyone will be expected to take that the punishment that has been handed out was good enough. This isn't an especially damning revelation, however the details that are brought to light because of it show that it was handled improperly from the start by the destruction of the original evidence and the tight lipped way the punishment was handed out. Now that they aren't completely in control of how to spin it they have a much worse situation on their hands.Ultimately, they gained more than they stand to lose with the cost of one draft pick for years of violation. It is impossible to gain equity in such a case, but that was hardly the objective at the start.

Rightly or wrongly, the punishment for Wilson is clearly spelled out in the rules in the NFL Code of Conduct and Drug Policies. Coaches are to receive a 4-game suspension plus at least an additional game as they are expected to conform to a higher standard than players. So there is not a lot of wriggle room in the rule itself. (We could debate whether Wilson actually broke the rules or not, but the penalty phase is pretty clear.)The problem with punishing NE is that there are no clearly defined punishments for what the Pats did and it is completely left to the discretion of the Commissioner to handle it as he sees fit. In this case, he handed out the stiffest fine in league history in terms of total dollars and also took away a first round pick (which I also think was one of the harshest penalties ever handed down). That's what makes this whole think a bit hard to decipher, as there is nothing in the rules that states what the penalty should be.

 

[Pat Patriot]

We'll find out in due time, but IIRC BB said he turned over everything that they still had in their possession. They suggested that they copied over a lot of tape and recycled it. I'm not sure that the Pats could get in trouble for the copies that Walsh had (that the Pats no longer had in their possession).

Correct. I just wonder if the issue might all be centered around where and when Walsh got those tapes. But it's all conjecture and speculation at this point...no sense watching all these other guys bash each other's skulls in over Pats love/hate until we get more info from the league. I just think it's sad that one of the most storied franchises in recent years got caught up in all this mess, regardless.

Walsh stole the tapes. How could the Patriots tell Goodell there were more tapes out there if they did not know it themselves. You are really reaching here.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Legal and no rules against.

Evidently the king of integrity has entered the room. CrossEyed was talking about the integrity of coaches he supports. Not necessarily whether they followed specific league rules or not.

There was nothing wrong with it at the time in accordance to anyone. If the doctor prescribed it to you or for you, it was fine.Not even remotely the same as the known cheating done by the Patriots organization.

That's a little absurd. Riding a technicality does not make it o.k. At the time not much was known about it, but obviously it goes without saying that altering your body with substances is a shortcut, which is exactly what we are talking about here. Teams taking shortcuts that are obviously wrong. Not "sketchy", not gray area, wrong.I really don't like the argument that everything that is not written down is up for interpretation. Nothing wrong with it at the time but it doesn't take a saint to look back in retrospect and say that was wrong. Nothing else matters? This is the kind of thing that ruins lives. These aren't greyhounds or horses we're talking about, these are human beings. Where is the perspective?As far as the Patriots are concerned, to look at years and years of cheating and read the details of such an intricate plan that was devised to fraudulently steal information and still say that the punishment that was doled out, one draft pick and a very steep fine, makes up for it all is shortsighted.

Tell me your punishment if you were Goodell for a day.

I am of the opinion that it should have originally included a suspension for the initial infraction of the Jets game, one game minimum. However as the Patriots did turn over all incriminating evidence at the start, Goodell obviously wanted to get the ordeal over with quickly. Not issuing Belichick a suspension was a mistake.I do not see how Wade Wilson gets suspended for violation of policy but coaching staff for the Patriots did not. How will they move forward? I don't have the foggiest if the newest tape revelations will lead to any further punishment, but I doubt it. I believe that it is Goodell's intention to still move forward believing that it is the best thing for the league, and since the tapes only back up that which has been admitted, everyone will be expected to take that the punishment that has been handed out was good enough. This isn't an especially damning revelation, however the details that are brought to light because of it show that it was handled improperly from the start by the destruction of the original evidence and the tight lipped way the punishment was handed out. Now that they aren't completely in control of how to spin it they have a much worse situation on their hands.Ultimately, they gained more than they stand to lose with the cost of one draft pick for years of violation. It is impossible to gain equity in such a case, but that was hardly the objective at the start.

So your punishment is to suspend the coach 1 game. And you think that would have been more punishment than losing your 1st round draft pick? Thats ridiculous.Every Pats fan that I talked to thinks that Goodell totally mishandled this situation by destroying the "evidence". He himself has caused this controversy to linger. If he had just suspended Belichek and not destroyed the "evidence" then we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

 

[Routilla]

 

[ScottyFargo]

We'll find out in due time, but IIRC BB said he turned over everything that they still had in their possession. They suggested that they copied over a lot of tape and recycled it. I'm not sure that the Pats could get in trouble for the copies that Walsh had (that the Pats no longer had in their possession).

Correct. I just wonder if the issue might all be centered around where and when Walsh got those tapes. But it's all conjecture and speculation at this point...no sense watching all these other guys bash each other's skulls in over Pats love/hate until we get more info from the league. I just think it's sad that one of the most storied franchises in recent years got caught up in all this mess, regardless.

Walsh stole the tapes. How could the Patriots tell Goodell there were more tapes out there if they did not know it themselves. You are really reaching here.

Which again boils down to how much they disclosed. Did they reveal all the games that they had taped even if they did not have the evidence from those games? They didn't have to have the evidence to divulge the fact that their improprieties occured. They would certainly stand to face less punishment if the totality of the cheating was not to be discovered.But do you really think that the Pats didn't KNOW all the games that they had taped? Please. They knew it down to the exact down. Walsh stealing the tapes does not equal the cheating not happening because they no longer had the evidence of it.

 

[Pat Patriot]

We'll find out in due time, but IIRC BB said he turned over everything that they still had in their possession. They suggested that they copied over a lot of tape and recycled it. I'm not sure that the Pats could get in trouble for the copies that Walsh had (that the Pats no longer had in their possession).

Correct. I just wonder if the issue might all be centered around where and when Walsh got those tapes. But it's all conjecture and speculation at this point...no sense watching all these other guys bash each other's skulls in over Pats love/hate until we get more info from the league. I just think it's sad that one of the most storied franchises in recent years got caught up in all this mess, regardless.

Walsh stole the tapes. How could the Patriots tell Goodell there were more tapes out there if they did not know it themselves. You are really reaching here.

Which again boils down to how much they disclosed. Did they reveal all the games that they had taped even if they did not have the evidence from those games? They didn't have to have the evidence to divulge the fact that their improprieties occured. They would certainly stand to face less punishment if the totality of the cheating was not to be discovered.But do you really think that the Pats didn't KNOW all the games that they had taped? Please. They knew it down to the exact down. Walsh stealing the tapes does not equal the cheating not happening because they no longer had the evidence of it.

Did you miss the part where Belichek admitted that they had been using the same taping procedure since the beginning of his tenure in NE. Maybe they did, maybe they didnt, but the presumption was that they taped EVERY game. They didnt have to detail to the league which games they did or did not tape.

 

[ScottyFargo]

So your punishment is to suspend the coach 1 game. And you think that would have been more punishment than losing your 1st round draft pick? Thats ridiculous.Every Pats fan that I talked to thinks that Goodell totally mishandled this situation by destroying the "evidence". He himself has caused this controversy to linger. If he had just suspended Belichek and not destroyed the "evidence" then we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

One game minimum for just the Jets game taping. More for the earlier infractions. How much more? That's impossible to say without knowing the evidence. Yes, I agree totally that Goodell totally screwed the pooch on this one, which thanks to the way things have played out since, means that Pats fans are the ones who'll suffer because of the questions left unanswered.

 

[jonessed]

Im looking for lawsuits at this point. The Boston Herald needs to be held fully accountable for its "Rams Walkthrough" story that completely ruined the SB for some of us before the game was ever even played. The actual loss was just icing on that horrible tasting cake. These 8 tapes dont sound any different than what New England has already turned in. I cant believe this knucklehead Walsh has been sitting on this stuff for 6 years.

Good luck with your lawsuit