War in Iraq is "over" - Obama (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

As someone who voted for Obama in 08, I'd like to hear someone unpack the statement that he is great at foreign policy. That has not been my impression.

Somali Pirates - deadOsama bin Laden - deadIraq War - doneThat's enough right there.

Unless Obama actually killed the pirates and bin Laden himself, I'd say those are good accomplishments but nothing that would make him a foreign policy genius. In fact, the Iraq War pullout was already decided in the Bush administration. How does he get credit for saying, "Okay, contract says end of 2011 so let's do it"?And did you forget about the Obama apology tour early in his presidency? I'd say that was an unmitigated disaster.

Who needs a genius? I just want a guy who will kill our enemies instead talk tough.

 

[Sabertooth]

As someone who voted for Obama in 08, I'd like to hear someone unpack the statement that he is great at foreign policy. That has not been my impression.

Somali Pirates - deadOsama bin Laden - deadIraq War - doneThat's enough right there.

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?Not saying they weren't the right thing to do, but ordering the killing of enemy combatants isn't exactly earth shattering in its policy gravitas.

Those moves showed that America is not to be trifled with. That's about the most important thing there is in terms of foreign policy no?

Seriously? Do you think people thought America was something to be trifled with before those things? Insecurity and hegemony are a dangerous mix.

Did you sleep through 9/11? Of course they thought that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?

So going into Iraq was the right move, but taking out OBL isn't "helpful" in terms of foreign policy.And you poke fun at me for being biased?

Once again, I'm going to ask for you to explain how you feel that taking out OBL was helpful in foreign policy terms.

I just figured since it was so self evident that it'd be easy to explain...

 

[Joe T]

I remember the days when if you suggested not going to Iraq for any reason at all you were called a traitor, or worse. This was the event where the internet took a nasty turn and the rise of the FauxNews fear based reporting hit it's stride. Not sure we'll ever get that genie back in the bottle.

huh?

 

[NutterButter]

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?

So going into Iraq was the right move, but taking out OBL isn't "helpful" in terms of foreign policy.And you poke fun at me for being biased?

Once again, I'm going to ask for you to explain how you feel that taking out OBL was helpful in foreign policy terms.

I just figured since it was so self evident that it'd be easy to explain...

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?

So going into Iraq was the right move, but taking out OBL isn't "helpful" in terms of foreign policy.And you poke fun at me for being biased?

Once again, I'm going to ask for you to explain how you feel that taking out OBL was helpful in foreign policy terms.

I just figured since it was so self evident that it'd be easy to explain...

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

 

[NutterButter]

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?

So going into Iraq was the right move, but taking out OBL isn't "helpful" in terms of foreign policy.And you poke fun at me for being biased?

Once again, I'm going to ask for you to explain how you feel that taking out OBL was helpful in foreign policy terms.

I just figured since it was so self evident that it'd be easy to explain...

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

Well, nowhere did I say that it was a negative (in fact I explicitly said the opposite). So I guess I'm still going to have to wait for Tommy's thesis.

 

[Joe T]

I'm not surprised that my views are unpopular. The decision to invade Iraq in the first place was such a terrible one that I think most people have come to realize it, and so all everyone wants to do, from people here right on up to the POTUS, is to get the hell out of there as soon as possible. And I can understand that. But I fear it's too late for that now. We are going to reap terrible consequences for just leaving the way we are.

ham?

 

[Road Warriors]

This is a bad decision. It's going to cost us It's not worth celebrating. I really don't like this neo-isolationist trend I'm seeing in politics these days. It's an illusion. We can never go home again.

It isn't neo-isolationist to be tired of spending billions a month in Iraq when we can't afford teachers here. And you know what? If they want to go all fundamentalist Islam that is their decision and I couldn't care less. As long as they keep it to themselves it isn't our problem. We have bigger fish to fry right here at home. If they can't keep it to themselves then we do have air superiority and we can remind them of it as necessary.

 

[NutterButter]

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

Well, nowhere did I say that it was a negative (in fact I explicitly said the opposite). So I guess I'm still going to have to wait for Tommy's thesis.

So you feel that taking out OBL was helpful? I thought you were questioning Tommy on why it was helpful giving me the impression that you thought it wasn't helpful. Are you trying to play both sides of the issue you crafty devil? Maybe you think it was neither helpful or harmful but dead-on balls neutral; didn't matter in the slightest one way or another. Why don't you just tell us what you think the effect of killing OBL has had on our foreign policy and end the suspense already.

 

[quickhands]

Obama was the just the guy standing in the right place at the right time.

So by that same thinking.. Then Obama was just President at the wrong time due to economy?

So by that same thinking.. Then Obama's policies are the cause of the economy not turning around?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

Well, nowhere did I say that it was a negative (in fact I explicitly said the opposite). So I guess I'm still going to have to wait for Tommy's thesis.

So you feel that taking out OBL was helpful? I thought you were questioning Tommy on why it was helpful giving me the impression that you thought it wasn't helpful. Are you trying to play both sides of the issue you crafty devil? Maybe you think it was neither helpful or harmful but dead-on balls neutral; didn't matter in the slightest one way or another. Why don't you just tell us what you think the effect of killing OBL has had on our foreign policy and end the suspense already.

I've already said I don't think killing OBL has had any positive effect on our foreign policy. Are you reading or just typing? It wasn't bad either. It's neutral. But it sure made us feel better. OBL being dead is a good thing. I'm wondering why someone would think it is a positive. It's a pretty simple question (or so I thought) but all I've gotten in response, instead of an actual answer, is just condesention.

 

[Joe T]

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

Well, nowhere did I say that it was a negative (in fact I explicitly said the opposite). So I guess I'm still going to have to wait for Tommy's thesis.

So you feel that taking out OBL was helpful? I thought you were questioning Tommy on why it was helpful giving me the impression that you thought it wasn't helpful. Are you trying to play both sides of the issue you crafty devil? Maybe you think it was neither helpful or harmful but dead-on balls neutral; didn't matter in the slightest one way or another. Why don't you just tell us what you think the effect of killing OBL has had on our foreign policy and end the suspense already.

I've already said I don't think killing OBL has had any positive effect on our foreign policy. Are you reading or just typing? It wasn't bad either. It's neutral. But it sure made us feel better. OBL being dead is a good thing. I'm wondering why someone would think it is a positive. It's a pretty simple question (or so I thought) but all I've gotten in response, instead of an actual answer, is just condesention.

"Just forget it dude, if you can't see that Obama is the Albert Pulos Jordaniski of national foriegn policy, GDP, arcitechture, and marine biology there is no helping you." / Gunz

 

[proninja]

Well, this thread got worthless in a hurry

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Is this the thread where no matter what Obama does, those that hate him will continue to blindly do so?

 

[Joe T]

Well, this thread got worthless in a hurry

got?

 

[quickhands]

This is a bad decision. It's going to cost us It's not worth celebrating. I really don't like this neo-isolationist trend I'm seeing in politics these days. It's an illusion. We can never go home again.

It isn't neo-isolationist to be tired of spending billions a month in Iraq when we can't afford teachers here. And you know what? If they want to go all fundamentalist Islam that is their decision and I couldn't care less. As long as they keep it to themselves it isn't our problem. We have bigger fish to fry right here at home. If they can't keep it to themselves then we do have air superiority and we can remind them of it as necessary.

Yes and not wanting to borrow 40 cents of every dollar spent by the feds is populism. Sorry NCC you dont understand nuance.

 

[NutterButter]

Are you suggesting that it was harmful? Oh I get it, this is the new conservative defense on why Bush never found him. They realized that it would actually hurt our position and therefore we gave the guy that killed over 3K of our own people a free pass. Brilliant.

Is that your final answer?

Just maybe

Well, nowhere did I say that it was a negative (in fact I explicitly said the opposite). So I guess I'm still going to have to wait for Tommy's thesis.

So you feel that taking out OBL was helpful? I thought you were questioning Tommy on why it was helpful giving me the impression that you thought it wasn't helpful. Are you trying to play both sides of the issue you crafty devil? Maybe you think it was neither helpful or harmful but dead-on balls neutral; didn't matter in the slightest one way or another. Why don't you just tell us what you think the effect of killing OBL has had on our foreign policy and end the suspense already.

I've already said I don't think killing OBL has had any positive effect on our foreign policy. Are you reading or just typing? It wasn't bad either. It's neutral. But it sure made us feel better. OBL being dead is a good thing. I'm wondering why someone would think it is a positive. It's a pretty simple question (or so I thought) but all I've gotten in response, instead of an actual answer, is just condesention.

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

 

[proninja]

Well, this thread got worthless in a hurry

got?

Good point

 

[Andy Dufresne]

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

There. Was that so hard?But are you're really equating the head of Al-Qaeda to the President of the United States?

 

[tommyGunZ]

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

You're being fished. I'm not sure when Andy started his "play coy, ask others to write a thesis re: why water is wet" shtick, but it's lame and tired.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

You're being fished. I'm not sure when Andy started his "play coy, ask others to write a thesis re: why water is wet" shtick, but it's lame and tired.

At least he gave an answer you phony.

 

[NutterButter]

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

There. Was that so hard?But are you're really equating the head of Al-Qaeda to the President of the United States?

No, but its a lot more fun this way. I'm a computer programmer. I have a lot of times on my hands.And yes I am. Its a bit of reach, but in terms of what they represent to each of their respective organizations, its comparable. Certainly close enough where what you're saying comes off as extremely partisan.

 

[EYLive]

As someone who voted for Obama in 08, I'd like to hear someone unpack the statement that he is great at foreign policy. That has not been my impression.

Somali Pirates - deadOsama bin Laden - deadIraq War - doneThat's enough right there.

How have killing the Somali pirates and OBL helped us in terms of our foreign policy?Not saying they weren't the right thing to do, but ordering the killing of enemy combatants isn't exactly earth shattering in its policy gravitas.

That's what I was thinking. I really don't keep up with politics, so my question was honest.I don't think of killing pirates and terrorist (or ordering the killing of them) as high level international diplomacy.And it's not like Obama ordered a premature end to the Iraq war, so he doesn't deserve credit/blame for ending something that had already run its course.There has got to be more examples if he's being considered to be among the GOATs.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Good job keeping your promise to keep Bush's promise.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Good job Bush, now obama, get us to hell out of Afghanistan and I will give you all the credit for that...

 

[timschochet]

This is a bad decision. It's going to cost us It's not worth celebrating. I really don't like this neo-isolationist trend I'm seeing in politics these days. It's an illusion. We can never go home again.

Your views continually amaze me. You think every foreigner should be given citizenship to the US yet US soldiers shouldn't be returning home. I can't figure out if your completely nuts, fishing, or cleverly trying to lure other nation's people here so we can occupy their country.

It's the first option.Seriously, though, this issue has nothing to do with immigration issues, so I'm not sure why you would have brought that up. I will repeat that I was completely opposed to sending troops to Iraq in the first place, it was a terrible decision, but now that it's done we should have kept at least a small number of troops there to keep the peace and as a deterrent against Iran. If Iran comes to dominate Iraq and threatens Saudi Arabia, we WILL be forced to return to the region in much larger numbers and at an incredible expense. If keeping a small force there would prevent this from happening, it's pennies on the dollar.

 

[NutterButter]

Good job Bush, now obama, get us to hell out of Afghanistan and I will give you all the credit for that...

He's got 5 more years so shouldn't be a problem

 

[jamny]

Thank-you for sticking with the plan Obama.

 

[mad sweeney]

Good job Bush, now obama, get us to hell out of Afghanistan and I will give you all the credit for that...

Another guy that'd be among the first to rail against "Blame Bush" but will take credit for 'im...

 

[ren hoek]

Obama must be polling really terribly to pull a move like this.

 

[quickhands]

Obama must be polling really terribly to pull a move like this.

41 %

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Well, this thread got worthless in a hurry

It was basically worthless from the very first post. Obama followed through on a Bush-era decision. And for some reason the OP made it partisan. Good for both Obama and Bush, I say.

 

[ren hoek]

What about the 100,000 private contractors in Iraq? They coming home too?

 

[proninja]

What about the 100,000 private contractors in Iraq? They coming home too?

That's a really good question. ####.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Good job Bush, now obama, get us to hell out of Afghanistan and I will give you all the credit for that...

Another guy that'd be among the first to rail against "Blame Bush" but will take credit for 'im...

I absolutely blame Bush for the debacle that Iraq turned into, think it was the single worst move he ever made but regardless of the stupidity of his getting us in there, it was his plan to get us out before the end of 2011... This is just Obama following Bush's plan... You would not be so ignorant of my positions if you took your partisan blinders off...Now if obama will get all our military out of Afghanistan before the 2012 election I will vote for him because that is the most important issue for me...That will be something I would back 100% and it has been his war for the past year and a half or more...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

it was his plan to get us out before the end of 2011...

His plan he adopted after Obama was hammering the campaign trail with it two years before the election and the people on both sides were eating it up.Before then there was "no timeline" and to have a timeline was "traitor talk". Or dont you guys even remember what actually transpired?

But I don't really wanna fight the absolute onslaught of the right-wing revisionist history. Buffoons.

 

[The Ref]

Let's not get too off track here....tens of thousands of husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, sisters, and brothers are coming back and out of danger.I don't care who started it at this point. I'll worry about that later.

Post of the thread right here.

 

[Mark Davis]

Let's not get too off track here....tens of thousands of husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, sisters, and brothers are coming back and out of danger.I don't care who started it at this point. I'll worry about that later.

Post of the thread right here.

Exactly. I don't care for Obama's policies domestically but agree it's time for us to pull our troops home. As a fiscal conservative, I couldn't stand George W. Bush either. The Iraq War should have never happened. I won't be voting for Obama but I'm with him on this.

 

[Daywalker]

Obama gets credit for doing what was right. He went against campaign promises because he was presented the reality of the situation. He's taken flak for this, as he should for being so critical, but a real leader does what is necessary not what is popular.

Troops are coming home from Iraq, killed OBL as well as a host of Al Qaeda leaders and he handled Libya perfectly. We were screaming for help in Irag and Afghanistan which we did not get internationally. We did in Libya. What more could you ask for? You want to go it alone in Libya as well? So we can pound our chests and praise ourselves for "leading from the front", while someone else's son dies? Libya was a masterstroke and the "smallness" of the Republicans was evident this week. Republicans spouting off and saying we need to get into Libya and build an infrastructure there, not here, is jaw-dropping.

How can anyone with more then two brain cells say Obama doesn't deserve much credit for OBL? Because he didn't pull the trigger? Really reaching there.

Afghanistan is a cluste-f because the real reason we are there is to keep an eye on Pakistan. Dealing with an unstable country with nukes.

Anything less then an "A-" for foregin policy is intellectually dishonest. Just nonsense that we should be leading from the front.

 

[Wrigley]

shouldn't he have done this years ago?

 

[Terpman22]

shouldn't he have done this years ago?

Yeah. Once the mission was "accomplished."

 

[Offa]

This is a bad decision. It's going to cost us It's not worth celebrating. I really don't like this neo-isolationist trend I'm seeing in politics these days. It's an illusion. We can never go home again.

Your views continually amaze me. You think every foreigner should be given citizenship to the US yet US soldiers shouldn't be returning home. I can't figure out if your completely nuts, fishing, or cleverly trying to lure other nation's people here so we can occupy their country.

It's the first option.Seriously, though, this issue has nothing to do with immigration issues, so I'm not sure why you would have brought that up. I will repeat that I was completely opposed to sending troops to Iraq in the first place, it was a terrible decision, but now that it's done we should have kept at least a small number of troops there to keep the peace and as a deterrent against Iran. If Iran comes to dominate Iraq and threatens Saudi Arabia, we WILL be forced to return to the region in much larger numbers and at an incredible expense. If keeping a small force there would prevent this from happening, it's pennies on the dollar.

How would a small number of US troops stop Iran from dominating Iraq? If, in your scenario, the Iraqi government starts some genocide of Sunnis with the support of Iran, I can't see how 20k Americans sitting on bases could do anything. And even if they tried to, they would just be kicked out. Unless the US government wanted to invade AGAIN.Iraq is ####ed in the long term and there's not a huge amount the US can do about it anymore.

 

[sho nuff]

Is this the thread where no matter what Obama does, those that hate him will continue to blindly do so?

Not blindly.Also the side that those that like him will continue to praise him for things that are not all due to him.

 

[sho nuff]

We cut off the symbolic head of Al-Qaeda and you think it has zero effect. Like the same effect if we took out a Pakistani fruit vendor. So if Al-Qaeda assassinated the POTUS, would that have any effect? Its just the POTUS. In reality, what does he really do. Give speeches. Meet other heads of state. Veto the occasional bill.

You're being fished. I'm not sure when Andy started his "play coy, ask others to write a thesis re: why water is wet" shtick, but it's lame and tired.

Yes...because your shtick is fresh and original.

 

[BoneYardDog]

it was his plan to get us out before the end of 2011...

His plan he adopted after Obama was hammering the campaign trail with it two years before the election and the people on both sides were eating it up.Before then there was "no timeline" and to have a timeline was "traitor talk". Or dont you guys even remember what actually transpired?

But I don't really wanna fight the absolute onslaught of the right-wing revisionist history. Buffoons.

Nearly 40,000 U.S. troops remain in Iraq, all of whom will withdraw by Dec. 31 — a deadline set in a 2008 security agreement between Baghdad and Washington.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

The logic of some defies me.

Why should Bush get ANY credit for proposing to leave Iraq, 3 years after he left office and 10 years after he organised the stupid invasion originally? It would be so easy for anyone, especially a conservative President to keep forces in Iraq for years to come.

NATO and Obama have done a much more cost effective method to rid Libya of Gaddhafi and have the Libyans on side and most importantly grateful.

The Iraq method of Bush leaves millions and millions of Iraqis with a permanent hatred of western forces and a government no less stable and organised than the Libyans will have. Only a matter of time till an effective Iraqi force, possibly driven by the Iranians

uses the 10 year occupation to be a major pain the backside.

 

[timschochet]

This is a bad decision. It's going to cost us It's not worth celebrating. I really don't like this neo-isolationist trend I'm seeing in politics these days. It's an illusion. We can never go home again.

Your views continually amaze me. You think every foreigner should be given citizenship to the US yet US soldiers shouldn't be returning home. I can't figure out if your completely nuts, fishing, or cleverly trying to lure other nation's people here so we can occupy their country.

It's the first option.Seriously, though, this issue has nothing to do with immigration issues, so I'm not sure why you would have brought that up. I will repeat that I was completely opposed to sending troops to Iraq in the first place, it was a terrible decision, but now that it's done we should have kept at least a small number of troops there to keep the peace and as a deterrent against Iran. If Iran comes to dominate Iraq and threatens Saudi Arabia, we WILL be forced to return to the region in much larger numbers and at an incredible expense. If keeping a small force there would prevent this from happening, it's pennies on the dollar.

How would a small number of US troops stop Iran from dominating Iraq? If, in your scenario, the Iraqi government starts some genocide of Sunnis with the support of Iran, I can't see how 20k Americans sitting on bases could do anything. And even if they tried to, they would just be kicked out. Unless the US government wanted to invade AGAIN.Iraq is ####ed in the long term and there's not a huge amount the US can do about it anymore.

A small number of troops left there would deter Iran because of the threat that they represent: if they are messed with, we would likely respond with a much larger force. This is the same strategy we have employed in Korea for the last 60 years: our troops in Korea are not large enough to prevent an invasion of South Korea by North Korea. But their very presence keeps North Korea in check because they're afraid that we would go to war to defend South Korea.

 

[JGalligan]

It's time to start thinking about where Obama ranks amongst the greatest POTUS of all time with regards to national defense/foreign policy.Right after Washington, just above Reagan?

Slow down there, champ.