Watson vs. Troupe vs. Winslow Jr. vs. V.Davis (1 Viewer)

[Perry Ice]

I love this group of TE....

All 4 guys can pretty much be had after the top 10 TE, each one has great upside.

Its very possible that one of these guys can creep up into the top 6 TE, but which onewould it be?

Its hard to distinguish between them, as they all have freakish athleticism, and all have fairly favourable positions to start the year:

Ben Watson: With Givens out of the picture, and a weak receiving corps behind Branch, Watson could be lined upwide often, and one can argue that he should be consider the WR2 on a team lead by one of the best QB.

Ben Troupe: Plays in offence that features the TE predominatly. Troupe is coming off a year where he was the Titans second leadign receiver, while splitting those receptions with Erron Kinney. If he can just see a slight number of those Kinney targets, he could be inline for a very productive season.

Kellen Winslow Jr.: Came into the league with a huge amount of hype, but has yet to show this talent on the field as he has been limited by injuries. He enters a situation, where the team’s most talented receiver is recovering from an ACL injury. If fully healthy, and Edwards is slow to recover, Winslow could be the top receiving option in this offence. On top of that he seems to be developing a great on and off the field relationship with Charlie Frye.

Vernon Davis: Is just a freakish raw talent, and he goes to a team with a huge need of an offensive playmaker. Davis as a rookie may be the best talent of the 4. He has a good talented receiving TE in Eric Johnson to beat out, but there is no way the 49ers keep this type of talent on the bench. With his sub 4.4 speed and leaping ability he is a mismatch against any linebacker in the league. With an offensive creative mind in Norv Turner, running the offence, you know he will find ways to exploit these mismatches.

As you can see all 4 present great upside, great athleticism, and are in a great situation to put up great numbers. You could probably grab two of them after the 9th to 10th round and have a very potent TE by committee.

The question is…. Which 2?…. or if you only want to grab one?…who would it be?

 

[Phlash]

Ben Watson by a far margin.

FBGs has him ranked at #6, and that should expected. Barring injuyr, he's going to put up the best numbers of all 4 of these guys.

 

[sholditch]

I really like Ben but NE has never had a top TE since I started playing FFB, and he has been there a while. I'm a UGA alum, but still not ready to call him the best prospect. His team uses a LB for goal-line passes for chrissakes. No consitency towards any one position or player in the NE passing game and I dont expect there to be, even with Fauria gone. They still have Graham, correct?

Winslow I think is going to be the best of the bunch in 06. He came into the draft with the same hype as VD but has a slightly better QB and less competition at WR for looks (JoeJ is top option until at least mid-October)

Troupe I think will continue his 50/50 split with Kinney and Volek has shown more propensity for the deep ball, though I'm not sure that will have a big impact as he likely won't be allowed to audible.

VD: who knows? Smith at QB, never played a snap. Wouldn't want him as my number one, and wouldn't take him until very late unless in a dynasty

 

[Trig2U]

Anything further to report about the proposed Graham-to-Denver deal?

That obviously is a factor in this debate.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I'd go with Troupe.

I could see the argument for Watson, but I sure don't see a large margin between him and Troupe. They'll both have the opportunity to produce pretty good numbers this year and they are both physically gifted.

Troupe had a better year last year despite splitting time. He began the year injured, but ended up going over 50 yards in 4 games. Watson split time and only went over 50 yards in two games.

It's a coin toss between them, imo.

 

[Blackjacks]

Redraft

Winslow

Watson

Troupe

VD

Dynasty

Winslow

VD

Troupe

Watson

 

[-OZ-]

I'd go with Troupe.

I could see the argument for Watson, but I sure don't see a large margin between him and Troupe. They'll both have the opportunity to produce pretty good numbers this year and they are both physically gifted.

Troupe had a better year last year despite splitting time. He began the year injured, but ended up going over 50 yards in 4 games. Watson split time and only went over 50 yards in two games.

It's a coin toss between them, imo.

I've been a fan of Troupe for awhile now, but I have to admit, if Graham is traded, Watson is probably in the better position to produce. I'd take either one in a redraft ahead of the others.Dynasty, I like Vernon Davis a lot. I was unfortunetly unable to acquire him in any of my leagues, but the kid might be top 3 starting in 2007, for the next 10 years.

Or he might bust.

 

[DonnyT33]

Mark it down guys. Watson will have a top 10 TE year and will be the target of the most passes trown by Brady until Branch returns and even then he will see lots of balls his way. I also think Winslow will see a real lot of looks form his new best buddy Charlie Frye in Cleveland.

 

[nygiants56]

I'll take Troupe..injured for the first few games in 2005, he still managed 55 catches. I said it before on another thread: the 2005 titans threw to the TE's more than any team since the 1983 Chargers..that's no accidental stat..they will continue to force feed the ball to the TE's..Drew Bennett is a poster boy for the word "brittle' so its only a matter of time before he gets hurt and once again the TE is the focal point of the Titans offense..even the running game is suspect in Tenn..the only bright spot, is Troupe/Kinney..

and, many people believe that a TE is a rookie QB's best friend, for short passes and quick releases..if VY sees action in 2006, I'd bet Troupe is on the receiving end of a lot of those passes..

Watson is great, the only problem is they like to throw to Vrabel at the goalline..or another LB..or DE..or O-lineman...

that offense is unpredictable..Brady sprays the ball around too much to select a TE in his offense..the team still hasn't been known for fantasy production from the TE's since Coates played..

 

[Banger]

I'd take Troupe as well. He has the best stats, plays in an offense that loves to use the TE, and has the least amount of questions. For redraft purposes I tend to go with the more proven guy and while I'd consider Watson #2 on the list NE's offensive players have the tendency to be feast or famine depending on the opponent and matchups.

 

[MLBrandow]

Winslow has to have tremendous value this year.

I feel silly projecting Top3 numbers from a guy who has like 6 nfl receptions to his career.... but he's healthy, he has a pro attitude now, and he's going to tear it up.

Plus remember, this was the guy who SCOFFED at the most lucrative TE contract in NFL history as a rookie. If that doesn't have #1 FF TE written all over it I don't know what does!!!!!

 

[Banger]

Plus remember, this was the guy who SCOFFED at the most lucrative TE contract in NFL history as a rookie. If that doesn't have #1 FF TE written all over it I don't know what does!!!!!

confidence/arrogance/ignorance unfortunately doesn't = NFL production. I don't disagree that the guy has talent and he could offer value but there are a lot of good TE's all the sudden and he does have question marks (health primarily).

 

[acme]

I really like Ben but NE has never had a top TE since I started playing FFB, and he has been there a while. I'm a UGA alum, but still not ready to call him the best prospect. His team uses a LB for goal-line passes for chrissakes. No consitency  towards any one position or player in the NE passing game and I dont expect there to be, even with Fauria gone. They still have Graham, correct?

Winslow I think is going to be the best of the bunch in 06. He came into the draft with the same hype as VD but has a slightly better QB and less competition at WR for looks (JoeJ is top option until at least mid-October)

Troupe I think will continue his 50/50 split with Kinney and Volek has shown more propensity for the deep ball, though I'm not sure that will have a big impact as he likely  won't be allowed to audible.

VD: who knows? Smith at QB, never played a snap. Wouldn't want him as my number one, and wouldn't take him until very late unless in a dynasty

Wasn't there another TE "Ben" in NE not too far back that was among the league's top 10 in receptions and receiving yardage? DOH! now that i look it up that was 1994! Geez i'm getting old.

 

[TheFanatic]

Winslow. Book it.....

 

[MLBrandow]

Plus remember, this was the guy who SCOFFED at the most lucrative TE contract in NFL history as a rookie.  If that doesn't have #1 FF TE written all over it I don't know what does!!!!!

confidence/arrogance/ignorance unfortunately doesn't = NFL production. I don't disagree that the guy has talent and he could offer value but there are a lot of good TE's all the sudden and he does have question marks (health primarily).

I'm pretty sadfaced if you didn't get the joke.

 

[NOSRAC247]

I'm thinking either Watson or Winslow. I had the pleasure of watching Ben for a couple of years at UGA, what a show! What an athlete! We only got teased last year with some of his performances, and with Givens gone, you can bet on more. Winslow's out to prove himself. He could tear it up as well. I like both of these guys, and am somewhat, hung-up on my tight end situation for the year. Good luck, I think you're safe with them two. Vernon will be a dominant force in the future, you just can't expect it out of the gates.

 

[MU Seminole]

I really like Ben but NE has never had a top TE since I started playing FFB, and he has been there a while. I'm a UGA alum, but still not ready to call him the best prospect. His team uses a LB for goal-line passes for chrissakes. No consitency  towards any one position or player in the NE passing game and I dont expect there to be, even with Fauria gone. They still have Graham, correct?

Winslow I think is going to be the best of the bunch in 06. He came into the draft with the same hype as VD but has a slightly better QB and less competition at WR for looks (JoeJ is top option until at least mid-October)

Troupe I think will continue his 50/50 split with Kinney and Volek has shown more propensity for the deep ball, though I'm not sure that will have a big impact as he likely  won't be allowed to audible.

VD: who knows? Smith at QB, never played a snap. Wouldn't want him as my number one, and wouldn't take him until very late unless in a dynasty

Wasn't there another TE "Ben" in NE not too far back that was among the league's top 10 in receptions and receiving yardage? DOH! now that i look it up that was 1994! Geez i'm getting old.

I was gonna say, I wouldn't be dating myself THAT much by mentioning Coates, and i could swear he did it much more recently than then.Back on topic: Watson, easily.

 

[Routilla]

Watson easily.

 

[Byron_nyc]

Wins - LOW! Wins - LOW!

Kid is the best tight end prospect out of college in several years. He's had two years to learn the NFL game from the sideline. The touches in his offense are wide-open and up for grabs, and I am picking Cleveland as the sleeper offense of the year. Take him in round nine and be happy all year.

D

 

[Sabertooth]

Watson. He's the best player in the group and also on the best team, with the best QB and also can catch Champ Bailey from behind over a 100 yard sprint.

Troupe is going to struggle with a new QB that isn't battle tested.

Winslow last played in a game in 1996.

VD is going to be a bust.

 

[MLBrandow]

Wins - LOW! Wins - LOW!

Kid is the best tight end prospect out of college in several years. He's had two years to learn the NFL game from the sideline. The touches in his offense are wide-open and up for grabs, and I am picking Cleveland as the sleeper offense of the year. Take him in round nine and be happy all year.

D

What's his TE ADP?

 

[PatsFanCT]

Watson.  He's the best player in the group and also on the best team, with the best QB and also can catch Champ Bailey from behind over a 100 yard sprint. 

Troupe is going to struggle with a new QB that isn't battle tested.

Winslow last played in a game in 1996.

VD is going to be a bust.

Good analogy. I agree it'll be between the Ben's. If you need to choose one, why would you reach on an unproven rookie and an unproven veteran rookie with a bad injury habit when you have proven up and comers in Troupe and Watson?

 

[David Yudkin]

Anything further to report about the proposed Graham-to-Denver deal?

That obviously is a factor in this debate.

Belichick has said absolutely, positively that Graham IS NOT going anywhere this year (although the Broncos did inquire).In other Pats news, New England has also told beat reporters that Watson WILL NOT be lined up out wide and will be used on the line only.

The team plans on using Graham and Watson together and both running routes at the same time. They hope that the OL will not suffer the rash of injuries like last year so Graham will not have to stay back and block.

They also are trying to get Dave Thomas in the lineup and are actually trying to develop sets with 3 tight ends, as they do not feel that there is a defense out there that could cover the three of them in the middle of the field.

Come to your own conclusions on how this impacts Watson.

 

[-OZ-]

...as they do not feel that there is a defense out there that could cover the three of them in the middle of the field.

This part stuck out to me, and it may very well be accurate. What would it take? I assume the safety would cover Watson, but they'd need 2 LBs to cover Graham and Thomas? Buffalo could handle it I think, maybe Miami, but creates an interesting dilemna.Or would a team use a corner on Watson and leave a WR more open? Definetly creates some mismatches, although I wonder how often that set would be used.

As I don't think I've ever seen a 3 TE set aside from goalline packages, how would this impact the running game?

 

[wannabee]

OZ, I think the running game is probably what benefits the most. This also might be a way to get Maroney out into space to utilize his good hands.

 

[-OZ-]

OZ, I think the running game is probably what benefits the most. This also might be a way to get Maroney out into space to utilize his good hands.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Might hurt Brady's FF value a bit though.

 

[Ace08]

Mark my words, take a picture, pin this thread to the top of the board if you'd like....Kellen Winslow will give Antonio Gates a run for his money for the #1 overall TE this year.

I know it sounds insane right now....but I'm telling you this kid is by far the most talented TE I've ever seen, and we've had some good ones down here in Miami. Pass on taking a TE early, load up at the other skill positions...and take this kid between the 9th and 11th round. You will thank me later.

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

i'm targeting Troupe...

 

[msommer]

Alex Smith

 

[wannabee]

Alex Smith

Oddly, the FBG depth charts have Smith as the backup TE. I wonder why ...

 

[Banger]

Anything further to report about the proposed Graham-to-Denver deal?

That obviously is a factor in this debate.

Belichick has said absolutely, positively that Graham IS NOT going anywhere this year (although the Broncos did inquire).In other Pats news, New England has also told beat reporters that Watson WILL NOT be lined up out wide and will be used on the line only.

The team plans on using Graham and Watson together and both running routes at the same time. They hope that the OL will not suffer the rash of injuries like last year so Graham will not have to stay back and block.

They also are trying to get Dave Thomas in the lineup and are actually trying to develop sets with 3 tight ends, as they do not feel that there is a defense out there that could cover the three of them in the middle of the field.

Come to your own conclusions on how this impacts Watson.

Watson will be used as he was used last year and like most Pats will have feast or famine weeks based on matchups. He may have talent, best qb, etc. but opportunity is the most important thing and the offense won't be focused on him like it will Troupe, Winslow or Davis.

 

[wannabee]

Alex Smith

Oddly, the FBG depth charts have Smith as the backup TE. I wonder why ...

In addition, the FBG depth charts have both Tenn and NE having base sets including 2 TEs. I wonder how much this will really change from last year to this year. Kinney was actually an above average fantasy TE last year. Graham, as mentioned earlier, was left in to block more last year. It is always interesting to see how it will change.http://footballguys.com/depthcharts.htm

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Alex Smith

Oddly, the FBG depth charts have Smith as the backup TE. I wonder why ...

Smith looks great also, and he is my second choice at the 5.12. FFG's offers a lot of fluff, so i mainly focus on their Current Projections

Merriam-Webster defines "fluff" in a couple of Dualistic ways...so to speak Dualistically.

Yoda

 

[Thorpe]

Kevin Everett

 

[wannabee]

Alex Smith

Oddly, the FBG depth charts have Smith as the backup TE. I wonder why ...

Smith looks great also, and he is my second choice at the 5.12. FFG's offers a lot of fluff, so i mainly focus on their Current Projections

Merriam-Webster defines "fluff" in a couple of Dualistic ways...so to speak Dualistically.

Yoda

A player can be the backup on the NFL team and still be the better fantasy player. This happens a lot with TEs. The starter might be the blocking TE. Another instance where this is shown in the FBG depth charts is that it lists Bruener as the starter at TE over Putzier. Bruener might start more games (who knows) than Putz, but Putz is the better fantasy option.

 

[Rev]

Watson. He's the best player in the group and also on the best team, with the best QB and also can catch Champ Bailey from behind over a 100 yard sprint.

Troupe is going to struggle with a new QB that isn't battle tested.

Winslow last played in a game in 1996.

VD is going to be a bust.

I think VD will prove you wrong the first time they line him up at wideout and throw him a screen pass, at which point he carries 4 D-backs 45 yards into the endzone. He's a fairly safe player, because his freekish skills alone will make him a viable dynasty player.

 

[houndirish]

As a Troupe owner I'm rooting for Ben T here but if it's redraft I think I'd take Winslow highest.

 

[msommer]

Alex Smith

Oddly, the FBG depth charts have Smith as the backup TE. I wonder why ...

Probably because Becht is the better blocker - he does however have hands of stone...

 

[TME]

My take (which is more of a dynasty take:

Davis - Playmaking ability like no TE in the league. You can line this guy up anywhere and get him the ball in a lot of ways ala Gates, Gonzo and Shockey. He's not there to block.

Winslow - The best overall/complete TE prospect in recent memory; however, you do not get FF points for blocking. Will be getting the ball in more traditional TE method from the LOS over the middle of the field. Still great abilities and fantastic hands, but not explosive like VD.

Watson - If only he played anywhere except NE. Freakish ability as well, but not quite to the Davis level. NE tends to spread the ball so well, no one really sticks out at the end of the season. However, he should get more looks further down the line than in prior years. I think NE is going to recognize that this guy is a playmaker for them and he needs the ball.

Troupe - I think his production last year was more out of necessity due to the TN WR situation than TN's want and need to get him the ball and have him make plays. The TE position overall produced very well in TN last year due to the mess at WR.

 

[Boston]

There's good news/bad news on the Watson front after mini-camp (the quotes are from Patriots.com):

Good news-He looked like the manchild he is. Studlike qualities were in full effect.

"Ben Watson looks like he’s ready for a breakout season. Brady looked his way a lot and it appears he is going to be a focal point when the team gets down in the red zone. If the Patriots give Watson a bigger role in the offense, he has the ability to easily catch 60-70 balls this year."

Bad News-Dave Thomas was a vacuum cleaner and caught everything thrown at him regardless of whether it was a good throw or bad throw.

"Chad Jackson and David Thomas simply don’t drop the football. Both players catch virtually every ball thrown their way. We still have to see how they beat jams at the line and run routes but one thing is for sure: Jackson and Thomas can both catch the ball."

Here's another article about Watson:

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/...rticleid=144027

My guess-Watson will be a legit #1 Te in fantasy this year. Yet, because the Pats spread the ball around so much he's not a guy to reach for. The key with him will be the TDs. That's where his bread and butter will be. Since Branch, Brown and Caldwell have never been TD machines and Jackson is an unknown quantity on paper Watson has a chance to really produce in that area.

As for the rest of the TEs I think Thomas will destroy what little fantasy value Graham has. If this kid is the real deal it will be huge because it will force defenses to have to deal with two big time receiving threats at TE. Right now Graham can be effective but his unreliable hands are always an issue. Look for Thomas to really be an effective weapon on third downs.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Mark my words, take a picture, pin this thread to the top of the board if you'd like....Kellen Winslow will give Antonio Gates a run for his money for the #1 overall TE this year.

I know it sounds insane right now....but I'm telling you this kid is by far the most talented TE I've ever seen, and we've had some good ones down here in Miami. Pass on taking a TE early, load up at the other skill positions...and take this kid between the 9th and 11th round. You will thank me later.

Signed,Kellen Winslow Sr.

 

[Workhorse]

They also are trying to get Dave Thomas in the lineup and are actually trying to develop sets with 3 tight ends, as they do not feel that there is a defense out there that could cover the three of them in the middle of the field.

While this will hurt Watson's value in FF, I give this idea a HUGE Talk about matchup problems. If the Pats can successfully run a 3 TE set and throw the ball to all three options, imagine the effect on the Pats running game. That would essentially give them 8 blockers on the line, and teams couldn't stack 8-9 guys in the box since 3 of the "blockers" are pass catching threats.As a Pats fan, I really like this idea.