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Week 16 Stat Corrections (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tjnc09
- Start date
Still not clear on this. Amendola had two catches today. On the first one, NFL.com has it going for three yards, whereupon he fumbled (TB subsequently fumbled it back on the return, but Amendola still gets charged with a lost fumble). Later, he caught a pass for eight yards. Yet NFL.com's stats have him down for 2/5 rather than 2/11, which means that they have the original catch for -3 instead of 3. Not sure which is accurate, but it could result in a change of 0.6, or even a full point if you don't use fractional scoring.
bushdocda
Footballguy
While I wouldn't be shocked if it wasn't corrected, that "TD pass" was absolutely a lateral.
Interesting, thanks
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Almost had a heart attack Reading this. I thought u were saying they missed an ammendola catch of 3 yds. Winning by 1.05 in PPR vs ammendola.'zftcg said:
packersfan
Footballguy
I was wondering about this one too. Impacts Bradford as well.'zftcg said:
OK, found the video of the Amendola play. It was clearly a gain of 3, not a loss. So he should gain another six yards (though NFL.com has still not adjusted its contradictory information).
FWIW, I'm not so sure that was a change of possession either, though the fact that it was ruled that way was to Amendola's detriment but St. Louis' gain (first down instead of lost yardage).
FWIW, I'm not so sure that was a change of possession either, though the fact that it was ruled that way was to Amendola's detriment but St. Louis' gain (first down instead of lost yardage).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1WDct3NI8
Check out sack #3 and lemme know what you think. I'm playing SD's Defense and I'm down .85. Since a sack is a point and if they were correct this I would win. Any thoughts?
Check out sack #3 and lemme know what you think. I'm playing SD's Defense and I'm down .85. Since a sack is a point and if they were correct this I would win. Any thoughts?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I'm up .3 on amendola --- don't tell me these stories.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
A blocked FG is considered a Defensive play, not a Special Teams play.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
A tackle for 0 yards CAN be considered a sack, but it all depends on what the official scorekeeper decides. If the player is obviously attempting to run the ball, then it won't be scored as a sack.
yellowdog
Footballguy
Official Statistic Changes for week 16:
Minnesota Vikings at Houston Texans
Antoine Winfield: from 5 to 4 Tackles.
Antoine Winfield: from 1 Sack for 9 Yards to 0 Sacks.
Antoine Winfield: from 1 to 0 QuarterBack Hits.
Jared Allen: from 1 to 2 Tackles.
Jared Allen: from 1 Sack for 2 Yards to 2 Sacks for 11 Yards.
Jared Allen: from 1 to 2 QuarterBack Hits.
New England Patriots at Jacksonville Jaguars
Russell Allen: from 7 to 6 Tackles.
Russell Allen: from 0 to 1 Assists.
Russell Allen: from 1 Sack for 7 Yards to 0.5 Sacks for 3.5 Yards.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 to 1 Assists.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 Sacks to 0.5 Sacks for 3.5 Yards.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Buffalo Bills at Miami Dolphins
Brandon Fields: from 3 Punts for 128 Yards to 4 Punts for 177 Yards.
Nate Kaeding: from 2 Punts for 84 Yards to 1 Punt for 35 Yards.
Nick Barnett: from 1 to 0 Special Teams Tackles.
Kirk Morrison: from 0 to 1 Special Teams Tackles.
Kyle Moore: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Washington Redskins at Philadelphia Eagles
Stephen Bowen: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Trent Cole: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Dallas Reynolds: from 0 to 1 Miscellaneous Tackles.
Akeem Jordan: from 1 to 0 Miscellaneous Tackles.
Cincinnati Bengals at Pittsburgh Steelers
Geno Atkins: from 4 to 3 Tackles.
Geno Atkins: from 2 to 3 Assists.
Geno Atkins: from 2.5 Sacks for 23 Yards to 2 Sacks for 17 Yards.
Wallace Gilberry: from 0 Sacks to 0.5 Sacks for 6 Yards.
St. Louis Rams at Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Craig Dahl: from 2 to 3 Tackles.
Roger Saffold: from 1 to 0 Tackles.
Minnesota Vikings at Houston Texans
Antoine Winfield: from 5 to 4 Tackles.
Antoine Winfield: from 1 Sack for 9 Yards to 0 Sacks.
Antoine Winfield: from 1 to 0 QuarterBack Hits.
Jared Allen: from 1 to 2 Tackles.
Jared Allen: from 1 Sack for 2 Yards to 2 Sacks for 11 Yards.
Jared Allen: from 1 to 2 QuarterBack Hits.
New England Patriots at Jacksonville Jaguars
Russell Allen: from 7 to 6 Tackles.
Russell Allen: from 0 to 1 Assists.
Russell Allen: from 1 Sack for 7 Yards to 0.5 Sacks for 3.5 Yards.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 to 1 Assists.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 Sacks to 0.5 Sacks for 3.5 Yards.
C.J. Mosley: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Buffalo Bills at Miami Dolphins
Brandon Fields: from 3 Punts for 128 Yards to 4 Punts for 177 Yards.
Nate Kaeding: from 2 Punts for 84 Yards to 1 Punt for 35 Yards.
Nick Barnett: from 1 to 0 Special Teams Tackles.
Kirk Morrison: from 0 to 1 Special Teams Tackles.
Kyle Moore: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Washington Redskins at Philadelphia Eagles
Stephen Bowen: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Trent Cole: from 0 to 1 QuarterBack Hits.
Dallas Reynolds: from 0 to 1 Miscellaneous Tackles.
Akeem Jordan: from 1 to 0 Miscellaneous Tackles.
Cincinnati Bengals at Pittsburgh Steelers
Geno Atkins: from 4 to 3 Tackles.
Geno Atkins: from 2 to 3 Assists.
Geno Atkins: from 2.5 Sacks for 23 Yards to 2 Sacks for 17 Yards.
Wallace Gilberry: from 0 Sacks to 0.5 Sacks for 6 Yards.
St. Louis Rams at Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Craig Dahl: from 2 to 3 Tackles.
Roger Saffold: from 1 to 0 Tackles.
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dennis.moore
Footballguy
That is all of them...
Joe Summer
Footballguy
This is how it's described in the play-by-play:
So it looks like they are counting the fumble as "negative receiving yards". Is that standard policy for the NFL? I can't recall. If Amendola had fumbled the ball forward 20 yards, would he get credit for 20 receiving yards??
packersfan
Footballguy
The Amendola thing makes no sense to me. Then again I'm still trying to figure out how Antonio Brown was credited with a touchdown catch after fumbling the ball before going into the end zone earlier in the season.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Good point! But if you examine the box score and the play by play of the Saints-Cowboys game, you will find that Colston DOES NOT get the yardarge from his fumble!Furthermore, Jimmy Graham and Drew Brees don't get credit for the yardage, either! Graham gets credit for the fumble recovery, but he doesn't get any receiving yards, nor does he get any fumble recovery yards. Basically, there are 22 yards that are completely unaccounted for. I checked through the entire Gamebook and the 22 yards aren't mentioned there either -- note that the "Total Net Yards" (562) includes only the 446 passing yards and the 116 rushing yards.
So what's the deal here? Is it the NFL's policy to include fumbles for negative yardage but EXCLUDE fumbles for positive yardage?
packersfan
Footballguy
As a Graham owner I want those 22 yards.Course it would've been better if he kicked the ball into the end zone and recovered it there. Damn you Jimmy.Good point! But if you examine the box score and the play by play of the Saints-Cowboys game, you will find that Colston DOES NOT get the yardarge from his fumble!Furthermore, Jimmy Graham and Drew Brees don't get credit for the yardage, either! Graham gets credit for the fumble recovery, but he doesn't get any receiving yards, nor does he get any fumble recovery yards. Basically, there are 22 yards that are completely unaccounted for. I checked through the entire Gamebook and the 22 yards aren't mentioned there either -- note that the "Total Net Yards" (562) includes only the 446 passing yards and the 116 rushing yards.
So what's the deal here? Is it the NFL's policy to include fumbles for negative yardage but EXCLUDE fumbles for positive yardage?
My understanding with that one is that if the WR recovers his own fumble, it is considered a continuation of the play, and therefore a TD reception. If someone else had recovered it, it would have been a fumble recovery TD. Of course, for fantasy purposes, the one who benefited was not Brown (who had a TD regardless) but Ben, who was credited with a TD pass.
packersfan
Footballguy
Yup and to me that's the sticking point. Points were given to a player who didn't deserve them. If someone else had recovered the fumble it wouldn't have been credited as a TD catch. So in my opinion the same rule should be applied to Brown. He caught the ball, fumbled and then recovered the fumble. That should be in my opinion a fumble recovery, not a TD catch. I still think Roethlisberger owners got a gift they shouldn't have gotten.
It makes sense that a player doesn't get credit for yards the ball traveled before they recovered it, but it is a little odd that they don't get any yardage for rushing yards after they pick it up. In the Niners-Pats game, Gore picked up a fumble in the backfield and ran it in from nine yards out. It was almost indistinguishable from a running play, but he gets no running yards for it, just a fumble-recovery TD.On the other hand, if a runner runs down the field and pitches the ball to another player, that player does get rushing yards for however far they advance it. If they throw it downfield and the receiver pitches it (ie, a hook-and-lateral), I believe the player who gets the lateral is awarded receiving yards, but I'm not totally sure.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
There was some discussion regarding that play when it happened, and the conclusion was that if you recover your own fumble, then the play continues as if nothing happened. Therefore, Brown was credited with an 11 yard receiving touchdown even though he fumbled the ball at the 1-yard-line.The other interesting thing about that game is that Brown had another fumble in which the ball went forward 8 yards and was recovered by Oakland. Guess what? Brown DID NOT get credit for those 8 yards! As with the Colston play, those 8 yards simply disappeared.
So it looks like negative fumbles are counted against your yardage total, but positive fumbles don't count at all -- unless you recover the positive fumble yourself.
Is there any way to look this question up in the NFL rulebook, or contact the league and ask about the play? I did a quick Google search but couldn't find an explanation of fumble yardage, nor a contact link for stat corrections.
For the record, I don't have any dog in this fight (started Amendola but won anyway). I'm just curious.
For the record, I don't have any dog in this fight (started Amendola but won anyway). I'm just curious.
It's confusing with that amendola play. Cause some play-by-plays say that the catch was a gain of 3 yards, while others say it was for a loss of 3.
Has it always been this way where negative fumble recoveries are counted against your yardage?
I need to check the stats from other games where similar plays occurred
Has it always been this way where negative fumble recoveries are counted against your yardage?
I need to check the stats from other games where similar plays occurred
There are two possibilities here:
[*]The fact that Amendola's fumble was recovered at the 17 means that it was a catch for -3 yards, because receivers can lose (but not gain) receiving yardage based on where the fumble was recovered.
[*]The NFL.com play-by-play was correct, but the game stats are incorrect, and no one noticed the discrepancy.
No. 1 just seems wrong. Suppose the Tampa defender had never gained possession and the ball had rolled all the way to the STL 5 before being recovered. Would Amendola really be credited with a catch for -15 yards?
But No. 2 seems weird as well. The stat corrections we normally see are incredibly nitpicky. Is it possible they overlooked something as obvious as a discrepancy between the game log and the final stats?
[*]The fact that Amendola's fumble was recovered at the 17 means that it was a catch for -3 yards, because receivers can lose (but not gain) receiving yardage based on where the fumble was recovered.
[*]The NFL.com play-by-play was correct, but the game stats are incorrect, and no one noticed the discrepancy.
No. 1 just seems wrong. Suppose the Tampa defender had never gained possession and the ball had rolled all the way to the STL 5 before being recovered. Would Amendola really be credited with a catch for -15 yards?
But No. 2 seems weird as well. The stat corrections we normally see are incredibly nitpicky. Is it possible they overlooked something as obvious as a discrepancy between the game log and the final stats?
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
The weird thing about that play is that the play-by-play gives Gore credit for a 9-yard Fumble Recovery TD, but the box score only gives Gore credit for 3 Fumble Return Yards. It seems to me that if you're going to call it a "9 yard fumble recovery TD", then the player should get credit for all 9 yards, right?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Correct. Walker is only credited with a 0-yard catch even though he caught the ball for a 1-yard gain. (He subsequently fumbled it backwards 1 yard.)
Actually - I believe he was credited for a -5 yard catch. So, the line of scrimmage was the 5. Even thought he caught it originally for a 1 yard gain, the fumble occured and was recovered at the 10. (His only other catch was a 34 yard TD and his final game stats say 2 catches for 29 yards)
2-5-NE5 (7:39) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass short right to D.Walker to NE 4 for 1 yard (S.Gregory). FUMBLES (S.Gregory), RECOVERED by NE-A.Talib at NE 10. A.Talib to NE 10 for no gain (D.Walker). Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.
2-5-NE5 (7:39) (Shotgun) C.Kaepernick pass short right to D.Walker to NE 4 for 1 yard (S.Gregory). FUMBLES (S.Gregory), RECOVERED by NE-A.Talib at NE 10. A.Talib to NE 10 for no gain (D.Walker). Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Weird - I am looking at the CBSsports.com gametracker: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/live/NFL_20121216_SF@NE
Joe Summer
Footballguy
It also shows Kaepernick with 216 passing yards (whereas NFL.com, ESPN and Pro-Football-Reference all say 221 yards). MyFantasyLeague also says 216.Which one is right?? There were no Elias stat corrections involving this game.
I wonder how many fantasy players lost a game due to this discrepancy??
edit: I checked at ESPN and Yahoo and they DO list stat corrections for both Kaepernick and Walker! They also list several other stat corrections which were NOT mentioned by MyFantasyLeague last week:
Code:
NAME TEAM-POS STAT CHANGEDelanie Walker (SF - TE) Rec Yds 5Johnathan Joseph (Hou - CB) Tack Solo -1Colin Kaepernick (SF - QB) Pass Yds 5Kareem Jackson (Hou - CB) Tack Solo 1Marcell Dareus (Buf - DT) Blk Kick -1Alex Carrington (Buf - DT) Blk Kick 1
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PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Has MFL applied any stats corrections yet? They might be waiting for Friday instead Thursday when they normally do it because of Christmas.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
His first catch was officially for 0 yards -- he caught the ball for a 1-yard gain, but then fumbled the ball for a 1-yard loss. The Patriots then picked up the fumble and advanced it for 5 more yards, but those yards were not counted against Walker.It was the same thing with Amendola. Amendola caught a 3-yard pass, but then fumbled it backwards 6 yards and was therefore credited with negative-3 yards.
According to the game log above, he fumbled on the 4, Talib recovered on the 10, and did not advance it. Where are you getting the one yard loss from?Update: Never mind, watched the video (http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/0ap2000000114003/Official-Review-Delanie-Walker-s-fumble) and you're right about the yardage. Talib picks it up at the 5 and advances it to the 10. Game log is wrong.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
BTW, I think I figured out what happened with Kaepernick & Walker's stats in Week 15. Most fantasy services will allow for stat corrections up until kickoff of the first game of the following week. But CBS and MFL do things a little differently. MFL stops processing stat corrections on Thursday mornings, and CBS actually stops processing stat corrections on TUESDAY mornings.
Apparently, the stat corrections for Kaepernick and Walker (and the Houston & Buffalo players) were not posted until Thursday afternoon.
So, if you use MFL or CBS/Sportsline, then Kaepernick was incorrectly credited with 216 passing yards (instead of 221), and Walker was incorrectly credited with only 29 receiving yards (instead of 34).
Probably not a huge deal......unless you happened to start both players......and you lost by half a point.....
Apparently, the stat corrections for Kaepernick and Walker (and the Houston & Buffalo players) were not posted until Thursday afternoon.
So, if you use MFL or CBS/Sportsline, then Kaepernick was incorrectly credited with 216 passing yards (instead of 221), and Walker was incorrectly credited with only 29 receiving yards (instead of 34).
Probably not a huge deal......unless you happened to start both players......and you lost by half a point.....
Joe Summer
Footballguy
You're looking at the unofficial CBS play-by-play, which is incorrect.Here is what the official play-by-play says at NFL.com:
Good work Joe Summer. So at the end of the day, fair to say that the Walker situation is similar and Amendola's 2 / 5 yards should stand? (I just happened to randomly find the Walker fumble which had a separate stat correction within the play, but in a sense not related to what we are talking about with Amendola!)
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Yes, it seems that the NFL's official policy is to deduct negative fumble yards from your receiving yards, while positive fumble yards do not count at all (unless you recover the fumble yourself).
Many thanks to Joe Summer for helping to clarify this issue. I have now called off my pitchfork-wielding army that was ready to descend on NFL headquarters. 
Seriously, though, this thread really sums up what makes FBG so great: incredible amounts of knowledge from the hive mind and dogged persistence on an issue that is esoteric to the point of being utterly meaningless.
I would still quibble, however, with the NFL's method for recording such plays in the game log. If Amendola has a -3 yard catch, it should be listed that way, not as +3-and-you-do-the-math. The way they do it now just invites needless confusion.
Seriously, though, this thread really sums up what makes FBG so great: incredible amounts of knowledge from the hive mind and dogged persistence on an issue that is esoteric to the point of being utterly meaningless.
I would still quibble, however, with the NFL's method for recording such plays in the game log. If Amendola has a -3 yard catch, it should be listed that way, not as +3-and-you-do-the-math. The way they do it now just invites needless confusion.
