weighing a job offer...having trouble pulling the trigger (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

I started the job hunt a little early, as I didn't know when they were planning on terminating my office. Anyways, I got an offer for a new company yesterday. The pay is slightly higher than what I am making now (by almost 5%), the yearly bonus is about 10% less, but I wouldn't be eligible for it until 21017. I was offered a signing bonus equivalent to almost 5 weeks of pay.

As I would be leaving 20+9-5=24 weeks of pay on the table, I'm hesitant. Besides the obvious almost 6 months of pay, here are some other downsides:

• new company seems to have a lot of turnover. I suspect it is poorly managed.
• the VP I would be reporting to is not well liked by at least one of my good friends (he used to work in my company many years ago).
• the interview process was not well run; in fact, I didn't meet with the HR lady or the hiring manager. Really doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.
• I would not have any direct reports. As I would be reporting to a VP, it seems to be a fairly flat structure, which can mean limited career growth (which has been an issue for me in the past).
• there are some pretty terrible reviews on Glassdoor. Of course, you have to take this with a grain of salt, as the only people who write reviews are people leaving the company for one reason or another.
• The best job (I think) I could get will likely be available soon. This job is literally 2 miles from me, door to door, is tailor made for my background, and my old department head just moved there, so I have an in. Unfortunately, they have a hiring freeze right now.
• Besides the severance, my wife is working. We can't support ourselves (yet) on her salary, but if you combine her salary with the above severance, we would be good for about a year without dipping into emergency funds, so I'm not in any dire threat.
• I'm not afraid to move (to the right location).

Here are some reasons why I should take the job:

• mitigate risk of not having a job - I don't want to be the one left standing when the music stops. I just found out from a friend that his company laid off 22 workers, so the job market may be shrinking.
• they are a market leader in their segment, the work would be interesting, and it would be a good resume builder.
• I would have a team-leadership role, which is what I've been wanting for quite some time.
• I wouldn't have to move. I do like my house and really don't want to go anywhere else.
• benefits are actually pretty good. health insurance appears cheap, 6% 401(k) match, and 3 weeks of vacation off the bat.
• probably a good work/life balance, as the company manufactures child-related stuff so the place should be very family friendly.

If I take the job and it does indeed suck, I could find something else. So, I guess it boils down to leaving almost a half-years of salary on the table, and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that.

 

[Otis]

If you don't have another prospect, do you really have much choice? Bird in the hand and all that. Take this and if you decide to move again you can, with a new and bigger title now on your resume.

 

[moleculo]

If you don't have another prospect, do you really have much choice? Bird in the hand and all that. Take this and if you decide to move again you can, with a new and bigger title now on your resume.

yes, it is the bird in the hand.

It's also marrying the first girl you date.

 

[sbonomo]

Wow this is a tough one. For me, i am very risk adverse, i would take the job knowing that if it sucks then you have a backup plan with your buddy at the other place. I know leaving free money on the table sucks however, if you don't mind working you won't be out of pocket with your new salary. Who knows, you may be pleasantly surprised with the new company.

 

[Frostillicus]

I would take the free money and do as little as possible for as long as possible.

 

[johnnycakes]

I'd pass on the new job but keep looking for something that has fewer negatives.

 

[gianmarco]

Wait.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If you don't have another prospect, do you really have much choice? Bird in the hand and all that. Take this and if you decide to move again you can, with a new and bigger title now on your resume.

yes, it is the bird in the hand.

It's also marrying the first girl you date.

I wish I had. She is an M.D. and a PHD now. She is a tenured professor at a respected university. Also, after we stopped dating she blossomed further and was a runner up in the Miss Missouri pageant. I didn't know what I had.

I blew it when I hit on her cousin. Of course I was not the first or the last to do something stupid when confronted with Claudia's temptation.

 

[jwb]

I'm not risk-adverse at all, and work for myself, so take my opinion with that in mind.

I would wait. If you have confidence in your skills (and that confidence is warranted, meaning you truly are good at what you do), you'll land on your feet.

 

[shadyridr]

Id pass

 

[Aerial Assault]

Congrats on having solid options.

I would wait. June is a long way away and it seems as though something without so many negatives will come along before then. Meanwhile, you don't have the self-recriminations associated with leaving (so much) money on the table.

 

[RC94]

I wouldn't take this job. I have been in a similar situation and I took a job that I had serious concerns about (especially concerned about the company and it's people) and it turned out to be the worst job I have ever had and my concerns all turned out to be true. I would recommend that you follow your instincts. Considering you have a good safety net and marketable skills, you should be able to find a better opportunity before the net runs out. I understand and place value on the bird in hand concept, but there are a lot of factors and when the bird in hand has a lot of significant flaws, it shouldn't outweigh the other factors.

 

[Arizona Ron]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

Let me ask, how does the "office" shutting down effect the overall company? Meaning, is this one of one hundred offices or half the company?

Is the company going through a merger or acquisition (that you know of)?

 

[moleculo]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

Let me ask, how does the "office" shutting down effect the overall company? Meaning, is this one of one hundred offices or half the company?

Is the company going through a merger or acquisition (that you know of)?

that's actually a really good question, and I see where you are going with it. We have a number of facilities around the globe, but R&D is only here, NJ, Germany, and China, so we are one of 4. The justification for shutting us down is consolidation with the NJ office, and I was offered relocation to Jersey.

When viewed from afar, the business line I'm involved with has become comoditized. We are not able to compete on price with other competitors, and our customers aren't compelled to pay for higher capabilities. We represent a very significant portion of our companies earnings, but the future outlook for our segment isn't very good.

The company will survive (at least for a few more years), but I suppose there is a non-zero chance that we are purchased by someone else. Our stock price is in the ####ter now, so IMO we actually are a prime target for a takeover.

 

[eoMMan]

Wait.

This.

Sounds like you wouldn't like your boss and will be looking for a new gig in the near future.

 

[eoMMan]

So you wouldn't want to move to southern NJ?

 

[moleculo]

So you wouldn't want to move to southern NJ?

no chance I want to uproot my family and move to a place roughly 35% more expensive where we have no support network to work for a poorly run company. Also, it's cold there.

 

[sbonomo]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

Let me ask, how does the "office" shutting down effect the overall company? Meaning, is this one of one hundred offices or half the company?

Is the company going through a merger or acquisition (that you know of)?

that's actually a really good question, and I see where you are going with it. We have a number of facilities around the globe, but R&D is only here, NJ, Germany, and China, so we are one of 4. The justification for shutting us down is consolidation with the NJ office, and I was offered relocation to Jersey.

When viewed from afar, the business line I'm involved with has become comoditized. We are not able to compete on price with other competitors, and our customers aren't compelled to pay for higher capabilities. We represent a very significant portion of our companies earnings, but the future outlook for our segment isn't very good.

The company will survive (at least for a few more years), but I suppose there is a non-zero chance that we are purchased by someone else. Our stock price is in the ####ter now, so IMO we actually are a prime target for a takeover.

I think you mentioned in the other thread that Jersey is a hard no for you and many of your other co-workers right? That will further stress your local job market i assume.

 

[Arizona Ron]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

Let me ask, how does the "office" shutting down effect the overall company? Meaning, is this one of one hundred offices or half the company?

Is the company going through a merger or acquisition (that you know of)?

that's actually a really good question, and I see where you are going with it. We have a number of facilities around the globe, but R&D is only here, NJ, Germany, and China, so we are one of 4. The justification for shutting us down is consolidation with the NJ office, and I was offered relocation to Jersey.

When viewed from afar, the business line I'm involved with has become comoditized. We are not able to compete on price with other competitors, and our customers aren't compelled to pay for higher capabilities. We represent a very significant portion of our companies earnings, but the future outlook for our segment isn't very good.

The company will survive (at least for a few more years), but I suppose there is a non-zero chance that we are purchased by someone else. Our stock price is in the ####ter now, so IMO we actually are a prime target for a takeover.

I think you mentioned in the other thread that Jersey is a hard no for you and many of your other co-workers right? That will further stress your local job market i assume.

What's the market for your skillset once your current company goes under there?

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm not well versed in corporate workings, so I'm confused as to how the potential job would enable you to be a team leader but have no direct reports.

 

[xulf]

The bonus isn't guaranteed, so I don't know if I would fully count on that. I would try to work something out with the new place where you start in January/February, quit your current job, and then just relax for the next month or so. Once you are at the new job, if your dream job becomes available, throw your hat in the ring for that.

 

[shadyridr]

Plus only a 5% bump is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Foosball God]

You said you started the job hunt process early. Is this the only prospect you've found? Personally I would probably take the job and still keep my ears open about other possibilities. I would have no qualms jumping ship if it ended up being a crappy position that you hated. While I love the idea of being able sitting on my ### for 6 months and get paid to do it, I don't think I'd like the stress of not knowing if I was going to be able to find a job when it was over.

People may start questioning why you were out of work 6 months.

 

[moleculo]

This thread is to help me weigh my options, put some thoughts down in black and white, and solicit some unbiased feedback to help me make a decision.

as noted, my office will be shut down in 2016. I haven't been given a formal exit date or severance pay, but I expect it to be in June and on the order of 20+ weeks pay. Despite the impending layoffs, i still expect my yearly bonus to be paid in April (only if I'm an employee as of April) equivalent to 9 weeks of pay.

Let me ask, how does the "office" shutting down effect the overall company? Meaning, is this one of one hundred offices or half the company?

Is the company going through a merger or acquisition (that you know of)?

that's actually a really good question, and I see where you are going with it. We have a number of facilities around the globe, but R&D is only here, NJ, Germany, and China, so we are one of 4. The justification for shutting us down is consolidation with the NJ office, and I was offered relocation to Jersey.

When viewed from afar, the business line I'm involved with has become comoditized. We are not able to compete on price with other competitors, and our customers aren't compelled to pay for higher capabilities. We represent a very significant portion of our companies earnings, but the future outlook for our segment isn't very good.

The company will survive (at least for a few more years), but I suppose there is a non-zero chance that we are purchased by someone else. Our stock price is in the ####ter now, so IMO we actually are a prime target for a takeover.

I think you mentioned in the other thread that Jersey is a hard no for you and many of your other co-workers right? That will further stress your local job market i assume.

What's the market for your skillset once your current company goes under there?

my skillset is very transferrable. There is always a market for engineers.

The problem is Charlotte, NC is a banking town, not a manufacturing town. There are opportunities here, but limited.

 

[moleculo]

I'm not well versed in corporate workings, so I'm confused as to how the potential job would enable you to be a team leader but have no direct reports.

i would have responsibility for executing projects which require work from a lot of disciplines, but no one would be my direct report.

 

[kutta]

Another vote here for waiting. That is assuming you are right about the severance. Is that a pretty sure thing?

Six months is a long time and you should be able to find something else as your current job winds down. And who knows, maybe that spot will still be open when you really need it.

 

[eoMMan]

Definitely be open to moving. Doesn't have to be NJ, but if the jobs just aren't there for you in NC, don't be afraid to move.

 

[moleculo]

Definitely be open to moving. Doesn't have to be NJ, but if the jobs just aren't there for you in NC, don't be afraid to move.

I'm not. I would be open to anywhere in the SE near a big city (Raleigh or Atlanta, especially), or Colorado. My family is all in Florida or Wyoming, and we have ruled out living in Florida, but would prefer to be within driving distance. There are no jobs for me in Wyoming, but Denver is close enough.

 

[moleculo]

Another vote here for waiting. That is assuming you are right about the severance. Is that a pretty sure thing?

Six months is a long time and you should be able to find something else as your current job winds down. And who knows, maybe that spot will still be open when you really need it.

Well, they haven't given me the formal severance package yet, so until I get that, I suppsoe there are no sure things. I'm supposed to get that by 11/30.

 

[sbonomo]

Another vote here for waiting. That is assuming you are right about the severance. Is that a pretty sure thing?

Six months is a long time and you should be able to find something else as your current job winds down. And who knows, maybe that spot will still be open when you really need it.

Well, they haven't given me the formal severance package yet, so until I get that, I suppsoe there are no sure things. I'm supposed to get that by 11/30.

Can you tell the new company that you need until December to give them an answer with the holidays? Then you could play defense telling them you cannot start until the new year due to YE at your current job. Maybe get the best of both worlds?

 

[moleculo]

Another vote here for waiting. That is assuming you are right about the severance. Is that a pretty sure thing?

Six months is a long time and you should be able to find something else as your current job winds down. And who knows, maybe that spot will still be open when you really need it.

Well, they haven't given me the formal severance package yet, so until I get that, I suppsoe there are no sure things. I'm supposed to get that by 11/30.

Can you tell the new company that you need until December to give them an answer with the holidays? Then you could play defense telling them you cannot start until the new year due to YE at your current job. Maybe get the best of both worlds?

I get the feeling they are going to want me to stick around here until June.

 

[sbonomo]

Another vote here for waiting. That is assuming you are right about the severance. Is that a pretty sure thing?

Six months is a long time and you should be able to find something else as your current job winds down. And who knows, maybe that spot will still be open when you really need it.

Well, they haven't given me the formal severance package yet, so until I get that, I suppsoe there are no sure things. I'm supposed to get that by 11/30.

Can you tell the new company that you need until December to give them an answer with the holidays? Then you could play defense telling them you cannot start until the new year due to YE at your current job. Maybe get the best of both worlds?

I get the feeling they are going to want me to stick around here until June.

Oh, then what are we talking about here. You realistically won't be on the market until this time next year. Completely changes the answer above. Pass on the new offer then wait for your ideal job.

 

[The Noid]

Bet on yourself and your skills, that you'll be able to find something just as good, if not better, the middle of next year. That way you get to collect your bonus and severance and get to take your time job hunting. You don't have to start looking in June, obviously. If you time it right and get serious around April, you might be able to explain your situation to the new employer that you need 4 or 5 weeks, instead of 2, before you can start and not even have any employment gap.

I was in a similar situation in April. I was already looking to move on before finding my position was eliminated, after working for the worst boss in my entire career (I know they say people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, but this was the first time that was my reason.) I found out about my lay off on a Monday and on Friday got an offer for the most recent job I had been interviewing for. But the severance was 42 weeks on top of having 60 days of paid transition to look for a new role, internally or externally.

I decided to pass on the offer (higher base, but less bonus potential and the department was in shambles which is why they were looking to bring in new leaders), took the next 60 days to pound the pavement, get an industry certification to make me more marketable, spend time with the family and just recharge from the drama and stress of the prior year. The timing worked out that I was able to find something that's exactly what I was looking for, with the right comp and started a few weeks after my end date (which my banked vacation time basically supplemented) and I collected that fat severance check.

 

[belljr]

So you wouldn't want to move to southern NJ?

no chance I want to uproot my family and move to a place roughly 35% more expensive where we have no support network to work for a poorly run company. Also, it's cold there.

But I'm here.... where in nj

 

[belljr]

Also....at the very least see what the severance package plus any retention bonuses are

 

[moleculo]

Bet on yourself and your skills, that you'll be able to find something just as good, if not better, the middle of next year. That way you get to collect your bonus and severance and get to take your time job hunting. You don't have to start looking in June, obviously. If you time it right and get serious around April, you might be able to explain your situation to the new employer that you need 4 or 5 weeks, instead of 2, before you can start and not even have any employment gap.

I was in a similar situation in April. I was already looking to move on before finding my position was eliminated, after working for the worst boss in my entire career (I know they say people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, but this was the first time that was my reason.) I found out about my lay off on a Monday and on Friday got an offer for the most recent job I had been interviewing for. But the severance was 42 weeks on top of having 60 days of paid transition to look for a new role, internally or externally.

I decided to pass on the offer (higher base, but less bonus potential and the department was in shambles which is why they were looking to bring in new leaders), took the next 60 days to pound the pavement, get an industry certification to make me more marketable, spend time with the family and just recharge from the drama and stress of the prior year. The timing worked out that I was able to find something that's exactly what I was looking for, with the right comp and started a few weeks after my end date (which my banked vacation time basically supplemented) and I collected that fat severance check.

that's about perfect, well done.

I suppose I can't achieve a perfect situation if I settle for "pretty good" now, and that's what taking this job would feel like.

 

[moleculo]

Also....at the very least see what the severance package plus any retention bonuses are

I won't know until the 30th. Thanksgiving may be working in my favor here. I know they want a decision soon, I will talk to the HR woman on Monday. Maybe I can push it off a week, but I doubt it.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Thoughts:

- Can you still wait on the new job offer till year end?

- Talk to your friend to find out more about why he didn't like the VP you are going to report to.

 

[Angry Beavers]

How do you know what the severance package will be? You are debating your options, and are assuming 24 weeks of pay, but you have not guarantee of that. How sure are you that the severance package will be along those lines? I might try to wait this out, but just pointing out that you might be making decisions based upon assumptions that may or may not be entirely accurate.

Good Luck

ETA - I answered without reading the thread and I see others had the same concerns. I'd delay making the decision as long as possible to that you can gather as many facts as possible.

 

[moleculo]

Thoughts:

- Can you still wait on the new job offer till year end?

- Talk to your friend to find out more about why he didn't like the VP you are going to report to.

Hes not really a "speak ill about someone" kind of guy. If he wanted to give advice, he would have. I'm not gonna pry.

There are other folks that do know him that I can talk to though...

 

[Dan Lambskin]

I would take the free money and do as little as possible for as long as possible.

 

[moleculo]

How do you know what the severance package will be? You are debating your options, and are assuming 24 weeks of pay, but you have not guarantee of that. How sure are you that the severance package will be along those lines? I might try to wait this out, but just pointing out that you might be making decisions based upon assumptions that may or may not be entirely accurate.

Good Luck

ETA - I answered without reading the thread and I see others had the same concerns. I'd delay making the decision as long as possible to that you can gather as many facts as possible.

yeah, that's a key part of it. If my severance actually sucks, syanara.

The timing is the tough part - I don't know if I can stall new company until I hear from HR, and I can't exactly call HR and make them move faster. If they know I've got something lined up already, they are likely to say, "uhh, yeah. Crappy severance and we need you to be here until August."

 

[moleculo]

What do you guys think about pitching this to the hiring manager:

"I want to accept this job and it looks like a tremendous opportunity, but I'm having a real difficult time looking past not only my severance pay, but finishing up my current projects. If I turn you down now, would that prevent you from hiring me down the road if something else opens up?"

 

[DocHolliday]

I would wait. Why take a job that you do not want? You are still employed and will be for months. Keep looking.

 

[moleculo]

I would wait. Why take a job that you do not want? You are still employed and will be for months. Keep looking.

I talked to some guys who have known the hiring manager for years. they say he is a nice guy and reasonable - driven and a little hot-headed, but a nice guy overall. I think my concerns with the atmosphere are probably overblown.

There are maybe three companies within a 30 minute drive (that I know of). This one, my ideal job with a current hiring freeze, and one other place I may have told the recruiter years ago that I was burned out and didn't really want to do this any more.

It's very possible that if I don't take this job, when the music stops I will have to commute > 1 hr each way, and I hate commuting.

 

[rick6668]

As to the severance pay, is this paid out from a retirement fund or just out of cash from the company?

I was laid off just about a year ago and had a thread here on the details.

I received 25 weeks pay as severance plus 9 weeks vacation pay.

The 9 weeks was regular pay which was taxed, but the 25 weeks pay came from the company's retirement account so I was able to roll that directly into an IRA without any taxes being removed.

Getting a job soon after the layoff was a primary concern for me as I did not want to have to use those funds unless absolutely necessary.

ETA: Good luck whatever you decide. From reading your thread it's a tough decision, but if you are looking into June, I would lean to wait for a better fit.

 

[beer 30]

If I take the job and it does indeed suck, I could find something else. So, I guess it boils down to leaving almost a half-years of salary on the table, and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that.

And blow 6 months of severance. The first opportunity that rolls down the pike isn't usually the best option, another vote for wait.

 

[gianmarco]

So, I guess it boils down to leaving almost a half-years of salary on the table, and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that.

Unless you're getting this back or you absolutely love the job you'd be getting, you're be a complete maroon to throw this much $$ away. That's a significant amount of coin and I don't even know your salary.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

What do you guys think about pitching this to the hiring manager:

"I want to accept this job and it looks like a tremendous opportunity, but I'm having a real difficult time looking past not only my severance pay, but finishing up my current projects. If I turn you down now, would that prevent you from hiring me down the road if something else opens up?"

Eww.

It would hit me wrong if someone approached me with that ...even if I was a big fan of that person. Even if you get a positive answer, there is no real chance that a positive response to this sticks. Just seems like it may sting for them yet accomplishes nothing for you. All downside.

 

[Buzzbait]

What do you guys think about pitching this to the hiring manager:

"I want to accept this job and it looks like a tremendous opportunity, but I'm having a real difficult time looking past not only my severance pay, but finishing up my current projects. If I turn you down now, would that prevent you from hiring me down the road if something else opens up?"

Eww.

It would hit me wrong if someone approached me with that ...even if I was a big fan of that person. Even if you get a positive answer, there is no real chance that a positive response to this sticks. Just seems like it may sting for them yet accomplishes nothing for you. All downside.

Agree. If I extended an offer to you and you came back with this I think I might be cutting bait. It's an honest question but in the case honesty isn't the best policy IMO.