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Werth signs with Nats (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter otello
- Start date
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
otello
Footballguy
I said good move for the Nats, until I saw the number. Risky for a 31 year old.
the moops
Footballguy
You think?This is a terribly dumb signing. I'm not sure how the hell you sigh a guy through his age 38 year for 18 million a year. Dumb.
otello
Footballguy
We agree.
JZilla
Footballguy
Well from where I stand, at least they signed SOMEBODY. I'm not too worried about the length, though maybe I will be in 4-5 years.
A little surprised, but I'll take it. When you're a perennial loser trying to right the ship, you're going to have to overpay for free agents. Clearly this was their guy all along.
A little surprised, but I'll take it. When you're a perennial loser trying to right the ship, you're going to have to overpay for free agents. Clearly this was their guy all along.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I don't get it. Why not just sign Dunn for a whole lot less?!?
the moops
Footballguy
Adam Dunn needs to DH. That's why.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Jayson Werth to Nats = Jim Thome to Phils (back in the day)
whoknew
Footballguy
So they paid $100mm for maybe 4-5 years of decent OF defense? Seems like they may have overpaid.
the moops
Footballguy
Of course they overpaid.
Balco
Footballguy
They overpaid, no question, but Werth is the better overall player than Dunn.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Exact same contract years and length as Vernon Wells.
Eephus
Footballguy
...and Barry Zito
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
damn close to Soriano too.Eephus said:
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Statorama said:
boubucarow
Footballguy
At least Werth is a good defender who gets on base on top of the power, the contract is bad for sure but no where near as stupid as the Soriano contract.Statorama said:
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I guess overall because he's a better defender. But I think Dunn is vastly underrated and he has a career OPS of .902 to Werth's .848. Even last year Werth was at .921 but he was .999 at home and just .838 away. He was 18-51-.320 at CBP and 9-34-.270 on the road.No matter how you look at it, I think it's incredible that Werth's contract beat Dunn's by THAT much considering they are the same age and Dunn is the better offensive player of the two.Balco said:
Eephus
Footballguy
I think this is intended as one of those Barry Bonds/Reggie White type deals that puts a franchise on the map. The only problem is Werth isn't a superstar like Bonds or White. It's also oddly timed with Harper and Strasberg not ready to contribute yet. Hopefully for Nats fans, they'll get some good seasons out of Werth but it's hard to see this ending well 2500 days from now in October 2017.
Balco
Footballguy
I see it the same way. If they wanted to make the big splash, they should have waited for Prince Fielder to hit the market after next year (he is 26), and made a 20 mil per offer to him. That way he will be in his peak years when all the young talent comes up.A head scratcher.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
The biggest winner of this crazy ### deal is Carl Crawford. He is going to get paaaaaaaaid.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
JZilla said:
I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
the moops
Footballguy
They may have to overpay, but they are overpaying at the wrong time for the wrong guy.You overpay for someone like Jayson Werth if he is the missing piece. Otherwise, you are just overpaying, because 1) he is not the missing piece, and 2) he is not a superstar that makes your team exciting or newsworthy.JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
Eephus
Footballguy
well, his facial hair is sort of like Uncle Sam'sThey may have to overpay, but they are overpaying at the wrong time for the wrong guy.You overpay for someone like Jayson Werth if he is the missing piece. Otherwise, you are just overpaying, because 1) he is not the missing piece, and 2) he is not a superstar that makes your team exciting or newsworthy.JZilla said:
Balco
Footballguy
I am sure they will. I read somewhere they have about 40 mil to play with this offseason. I have a feeling they are going to grossly overpay for Carl Pavano next.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Anyone see the report from Olney?! "I had one GM screaming into the phone at me, 'What are they thinking?!'" And other teams are pissed as well, Olney saying they haven't been this upset since Kevin Brown cashed in.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Yeah this wasn't the Mets shelling out big bucks to Pedro Martinez to make the franchise relevant again. Pedro was a draw. Werth is merely a very good player.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
I hope that Carl sent Werth and Boras a fruit basket.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Do you not value fielding at all? Werth is a lot better baseball player than Dunn. Dunn is a DH, that's it and he Ks a ton and has never hit under any kind of pressure so we have no idea what he'll do when that time comes. I think the Dunn love is ridiculous, he's so overrated by guys that say he's vastly underrated. Did the Nats pay too much? Sure. But why wouldn't they? No one wants to go there and they have to build a market for players. This team will be raking in the dough when they start winning, DC/NVa/sMary is a monster media market with a ton of :( wanting to get that niche ticket to a big Nats game.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I'd disagree with #2. While he's not a superstar, I think he does make the team exciting and/or newsworthy. I was out at the Verizon Center yesterday and there was a pretty palpable buzz going around as the news of the Werth signing spread. Apart from the Skins, DC is a bandwagon town (just a few years ago, I could get a "buy one, get one free" deal to Caps for around $25, and Caps games are now impossible to get tickets to). Most markets don't need a Jayson Werth to bring in fans. DC does.They may have to overpay, but they are overpaying at the wrong time for the wrong guy.You overpay for someone like Jayson Werth if he is the missing piece. Otherwise, you are just overpaying, because 1) he is not the missing piece, and 2) he is not a superstar that makes your team exciting or newsworthy.JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
oso diablo
Footballguy
then the town deserves this. it's a pretty bad decision by the Nationals front office.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
so how may season until he gets traded to a contender when 18 million looks like nothing??
Baseball needs a cap, bad
Baseball needs a cap, bad
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'd disagree with #1 also. They're not done making moves, and even if they are, they already have the pieces to be a very good team in 2012-2014, when Strasburg and Harper are both on the roster. Those seasons, not next season, are the focus of this deal. He stops the bleeding a little in 2011 (especially after they sign Pena or LaRoche and possibly another starter) and sets them up well to be a contender just as the Phillies will IMO start aging. Most of the Phllies' major pieces are well on the wrong side of 30 already. Oswalt, Halladay, Utley, Rollins (if he stays) and Howard will all be moving to the wrong side of 35 during the 2012-2014 time frame. Meanwhile, Werth will probably be the only significant Nats piece at that age, which many of them in their mid to late 20s (or in Harper's case, early 20s). If Strasburg bounces back well from TJ surgery- and there's no reason to think he won't- this is a good baseball team very soon, in a good situation.I'd disagree with #2. While he's not a superstar, I think he does make the team exciting and/or newsworthy. I was out at the Verizon Center yesterday and there was a pretty palpable buzz going around as the news of the Werth signing spread. Apart from the Skins, DC is a bandwagon town (just a few years ago, I could get a "buy one, get one free" deal to Caps for around $25, and Caps games are now impossible to get tickets to). Most markets don't need a Jayson Werth to bring in fans. DC does.They may have to overpay, but they are overpaying at the wrong time for the wrong guy.You overpay for someone like Jayson Werth if he is the missing piece. Otherwise, you are just overpaying, because 1) he is not the missing piece, and 2) he is not a superstar that makes your team exciting or newsworthy.JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
belljr
Footballguy
For that price I'm glad the Phils did not sign him. Werth is very polarizing, I heard how much he is a "doosh" in real life but he does bring it on the field. However just when you want to get oh him for sucking for 6 games straight he does something great. GL to him, he was a big part of the Phils WS run .
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whoknew
Footballguy
How does this statement flow from this signing?
All a cap does is make owners richer at the expense of the players.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I think it's just the nature of DC. I don't know the actual statistics, but I'd have to imagine that DC has a higher transplant rate than most cities. Very few of my friends here are from the DC area originally (and I'm from NJ myself who grew up a Yankees fan, before getting bored by the Yankees) -- and the ones that are from here originally grew up as Orioles fans. Anyway, because a lot of people in DC are transplants, and the Nationals are still a new team without much history here, it takes a little extra to convince fans to cheer for the home team rather than their hometown team.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's the nature of every town. Take a look at the Phillies' attendance when they weren't playing well. Or the Indians' lately. Or the Orioles'. Or even the Yankees as recently as the early 90s. Those are all typically though of as passionate, thick-and-thin type fan bases, but they very clearly are not.With the exceptions of the Cubs and to some degree the Red Sox, EVERY town is a front-runner when it comes to baseball.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
There is a degree of front-running in most towns, but I think DC is worse than most. While the Orioles and the Indians attendance are down, they are still doing much better TV rating-wise than the Nationals, so fans still keep up with those teams, even if not bringing their dollars to the ballpark. When I go into a bar here, I typically need to request the bartender to put the Nats game on (usually some other out of town ballgame is on instead). If you go into a bar in Pittsburgh, I'm sure the Pirates game is on at least one of the TVs.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The TV ratings are a problem because the team is new to town. The ratings have increased pretty reliably over the years- I believe they even jumped from 2008 to 2009 as the team continued to suck. That's why they need to generate buzz- because the team hasn't been entrenched in the local sports fan base. It's pretty clear that the fans here will follow and support a loser just as much as any other city once the team is part of the fabric of the town- I think we all know what Exhibit A is for that argument.
oso diablo
Footballguy
it'll just be more of the Senators being the Senators
Koya
Footballguy
For all the GMs yelling about how this pushes up the price... why? Just don't overpay the next guy. And if the Nats are the only team that wants to overpay, so be it.
Of course, those GMs yelling now will then become the lemmings they are and overpay others, but it is not as if one bad contract must beget others. In fact, if other GMs had the balls to stand pat, it would only hurt the Senators more by hemming them into large contracts when others wouldn't bite.
Of course, those GMs yelling now will then become the lemmings they are and overpay others, but it is not as if one bad contract must beget others. In fact, if other GMs had the balls to stand pat, it would only hurt the Senators more by hemming them into large contracts when others wouldn't bite.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
For those that don't follow the team closely, the Nats were reportedly the highest bidders for Teixiera last year, and for De La Rosa this year. Despite what Keith Law thinks, they had to severely overpay at some point to start the ball rolling on Washington as a viable destination for prime free agents. Simply offering the most money by a couple million wasn't working. Now with Werth on for the long term along with Zimmerman, Harper and Strasburg, among others, they become a potential contender that hopefully won't have to go this far over market for the next target.JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I don't think that's the argument here though. They definitely had to get the ball rolling, but if you're going to overpay someone drastically, it should be a cornerstone franchise guy. Paying Werth may attract others to the team in future seasons, but why not break the bank for a premier player?Maybe that's the difference of opinion. I'm not of the belief that Werth is a premier player. If someone believes he is though, then this wasn't a bad signing.TobiasFunke said:For those that don't follow the team closely, the Nats were reportedly the highest bidders for Teixiera last year, and for De La Rosa this year. Despite what Keith Law thinks, they had to severely overpay at some point to start the ball rolling on Washington as a viable destination for prime free agents. Simply offering the most money by a couple million wasn't working. Now with Werth on for the long term along with Zimmerman, Harper and Strasburg, among others, they become a potential contender that hopefully won't have to go this far over market for the next target.Dr. Awesome said:JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think he fits well with what they have and what they need- if you were to venture into the depths of the Nationals thread in this forum, you'd see I've been pimping an aggressive run at Werth for like a year now. Not sure who else is available this year or next- I assume they got in touch with Crawford before doing this and were rejected, and I don't see any other stars who really fill a need in this class or the next one. They basically have openings at 1B and in the OF, and I don't see many more guys in this class or the next that they could have realistically chased. Fielder would probably be the best option, but I'm guessing they want a quality defensive 1B to help out their young but talented infield.Keep in mind that everything they're doing is targeted at making runs between 2012 and 2015, with 2013 and 2014 being the prime years. They're going to get a lefty 1B with some power- either Pena or LaRoche or maybe Loney if all else fails- and Harper hits lefty, so with Zimmerman and Werth they'll be able to go R-L-R-L in the heart of the order. What's more, they'll probably all be plus defensive players. With Werth signed on and assuming reasonable development from the club's youngsters, the only hole I see in this team during those years is a quality leadoff man and maybe a #3 type starter. The latter can be found in free agency pretty much any season.I don't think that's the argument here though. They definitely had to get the ball rolling, but if you're going to overpay someone drastically, it should be a cornerstone franchise guy. Paying Werth may attract others to the team in future seasons, but why not break the bank for a premier player?Maybe that's the difference of opinion. I'm not of the belief that Werth is a premier player. If someone believes he is though, then this wasn't a bad signing.TobiasFunke said:For those that don't follow the team closely, the Nats were reportedly the highest bidders for Teixiera last year, and for De La Rosa this year. Despite what Keith Law thinks, they had to severely overpay at some point to start the ball rolling on Washington as a viable destination for prime free agents. Simply offering the most money by a couple million wasn't working. Now with Werth on for the long term along with Zimmerman, Harper and Strasburg, among others, they become a potential contender that hopefully won't have to go this far over market for the next target.Dr. Awesome said:JZilla said:I don't think there is any question that they overpaid. But, for a team in the Nats' situation, they've got to overpay.
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