Westbrook vs Bush "Battle of the Little Big Men" (1 Viewer)

[bigreese82]

I know this has been discussed with PPR but who do you like with NO PPR!!! It looks like Bush has a much easier rushing schedule. They still receive yardage from receptions though. Who do you like in a redraft and why?

 

[bigreese82]

It also looks like all but two of the staff like Westbrook

 

[Mr. Bill O'Reilly]

in a non PPR league I'd rather have Westbrook, he's a more proven runner, and he can actually run between the tackles a little bit unlike Bush who just uses his ridiculous speed to get to the outside (which he's extremely proficient in doing). I've never seen a RB as quick as Bush.

 

[Cover2]

Aside from the fact that Bush is 6'0 200 lbs, he has a much higher ceiling than Westbrook.

 

[YoUnG GuNz]

Westy is my 7th rated RB in NON PPR. Bush is about my 12.

 

[SSOG]

Westbrook by a good margin.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

That's interesting. I think Reggie Bush is vastly overrated this year in all formats. I pick Westbrook over him every time.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

That's interesting. I think Reggie Bush is vastly overrated this year in all formats. I pick Westbrook over him every time.

Bush has shown he can and will score with McAllister alongside him. Westbrook is a 7-8 TD guy when he has had a GL vulture, and it appears Hunt will be that guy. Add in the fact that NO offense is better than Phily's offense and Westbrook seems to be injured, or playing through injuries, all the time and Bush is a no-brainer to me.

 

[bigreese82]

I am leaning towards Bush because his SOS is the 6th easiest and Westy is the 3rd hardest.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bush get 6 or 7 TDs on the ground this year. He also is in the game in some Goalline packages from what I remember in the preseason.

 

[Gopher State]

Bush is overrated and will disappointed in non-PPR leagues, Duce will get the goalline work which will reduce Bushes td's

 

[gianmarco]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.

ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

 

[dirtywaters20]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Two years ago, he was at 4.0 YPC. And only got in the endzone 3 times each in 05 and 04. He's a very good player but I'm not quite sure I'm ready to call him elite.

 

[gianmarco]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Why would I focus on his YPC? I've yet to be in a league that gives points for YPC. THe point is he's not a big-load carrying RB. Whether or not he's successful when he actually carries the ball, he's gone over 1000 yds once in his career, which was last year for 1200. The 3 previous years he wasn't even close. I could care less what his YPC is. Taking Westbrook over Bush bc he's a better runner just doesn't hold water bc he just doesn't put up big rushing totals. He, much like Bush, gets most of his points in the air. Regardless whether or not it's Reid's lopsided playcalling, it is what it is. The fact that Reid has done this now for the last few years and he's still the headcoach there, don't be surprised if it happens again.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Didn't Reid give up play calling duties to the OC this year?

 

[dirtywaters20]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Two years ago, he was at 4.0 YPC. And only got in the endzone 3 times each in 05 and 04. He's a very good player but I'm not quite sure I'm ready to call him elite.

His career is 4.7, a little more telling, no?

 

[dirtywaters20]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Why would I focus on his YPC? I've yet to be in a league that gives points for YPC. THe point is he's not a big-load carrying RB. Whether or not he's successful when he actually carries the ball, he's gone over 1000 yds once in his career, which was last year for 1200. The 3 previous years he wasn't even close. I could care less what his YPC is. Taking Westbrook over Bush bc he's a better runner just doesn't hold water bc he just doesn't put up big rushing totals. He, much like Bush, gets most of his points in the air. Regardless whether or not it's Reid's lopsided playcalling, it is what it is. The fact that Reid has done this now for the last few years and he's still the headcoach there, don't be surprised if it happens again.

I was resonding to the statement that he wasn't a "solid" runner. That sounds like a knock on his abilities which isn't accurate. I now see you meant it in terms of strictly fantasy rushing yards, big difference. That being said, I would be very very surprised if his rushing totals didn't exceed Bush's this year. Reid has supposedly turned over play calling duties and Westbrook has been very vocal about shouldering more of the offensive load this offseason.

 

[YoUnG GuNz]

Ried isn't calling the plays this year it's Marty Mornhinweg (however you spell it). Therefore the offense will be much more balanced this year.

 

[illiterate]

Sitting in the 7th spot of a 12 team non-ppr redraft, this is an interesting discussion.

Would have to give the edge to Westbrook right now. Deuce is going round 4 in some leagues.

 

[gianmarco]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Why would I focus on his YPC? I've yet to be in a league that gives points for YPC. THe point is he's not a big-load carrying RB. Whether or not he's successful when he actually carries the ball, he's gone over 1000 yds once in his career, which was last year for 1200. The 3 previous years he wasn't even close. I could care less what his YPC is. Taking Westbrook over Bush bc he's a better runner just doesn't hold water bc he just doesn't put up big rushing totals. He, much like Bush, gets most of his points in the air. Regardless whether or not it's Reid's lopsided playcalling, it is what it is. The fact that Reid has done this now for the last few years and he's still the headcoach there, don't be surprised if it happens again.

I was resonding to the statement that he wasn't a "solid" runner. That sounds like a knock on his abilities which isn't accurate. I now see you meant it in terms of strictly fantasy rushing yards, big difference. That being said, I would be very very surprised if his rushing totals didn't exceed Bush's this year. Reid has supposedly turned over play calling duties and Westbrook has been very vocal about shouldering more of the offensive load this offseason.

Yes, I definitely meant it in terms of fantasy. I think Westbrook is a fantastic player and can definitely do it all as evidenced by his #'s last year. However, to bump him up while bumping Bush down because it's non-PPR isn't really wise if you look at his history. He does most of his damage in the air as will Bush. I agree that I think his rushing yds will top Bush's, but I don't think it will be by much and these 2 will most likely finish quite close to each other. Westbrook has the injury history and Bush is splitting time. Both knock em down enough to keep em pretty even in my book. I'd flip a coin, to tell you the truth.

 

[dirtywaters20]

I like Westbrook a lot as well, but let's not go crazy about a "proven" runner. He ran for 1200 yds last year, but the 3 yrs previous to that were 617, 812, and 613. Now, I know he missed a few games in each of those 3 seasons, but he was still going to be short of 1000 yds in each. His strength lies in the passing game, just as Bush's does. These 2 are a tossup for me this year. But let's not say he's a solid runner bc i wouldn't be surprised at all if he failed to hit 1000 yds again.ETA--Let me also add that I think we may see some more rushing from Bush this year. If you look at the stat line from last night's game, it's almost as if Bush and Deuce were reversed. Bush had more carries with decent rushing yds and Deuce caught something like 4 balls out of the backfield. Anyway, both runners are going to be solid fantasy producers with serious upside.

Why not focus on Westbrook's YPC? If he fails to hit 1000 yard it will be a direct reflection of Reid's lopsided playcalling, not on Westbrook's abilities to tote the rock. He's an elite back when given the chance to carry the ball.

Why would I focus on his YPC? I've yet to be in a league that gives points for YPC. THe point is he's not a big-load carrying RB. Whether or not he's successful when he actually carries the ball, he's gone over 1000 yds once in his career, which was last year for 1200. The 3 previous years he wasn't even close. I could care less what his YPC is. Taking Westbrook over Bush bc he's a better runner just doesn't hold water bc he just doesn't put up big rushing totals. He, much like Bush, gets most of his points in the air. Regardless whether or not it's Reid's lopsided playcalling, it is what it is. The fact that Reid has done this now for the last few years and he's still the headcoach there, don't be surprised if it happens again.

I was resonding to the statement that he wasn't a "solid" runner. That sounds like a knock on his abilities which isn't accurate. I now see you meant it in terms of strictly fantasy rushing yards, big difference. That being said, I would be very very surprised if his rushing totals didn't exceed Bush's this year. Reid has supposedly turned over play calling duties and Westbrook has been very vocal about shouldering more of the offensive load this offseason.

Yes, I definitely meant it in terms of fantasy. I think Westbrook is a fantastic player and can definitely do it all as evidenced by his #'s last year. However, to bump him up while bumping Bush down because it's non-PPR isn't really wise if you look at his history. He does most of his damage in the air as will Bush. I agree that I think his rushing yds will top Bush's, but I don't think it will be by much and these 2 will most likely finish quite close to each other. Westbrook has the injury history and Bush is splitting time. Both knock em down enough to keep em pretty even in my book. I'd flip a coin, to tell you the truth.

I like them both for sure. If the injury to Shawn Andrews costs him time, or limits his effectiveness, than I'd probably lean towards Bush to be honest. If Andrews is healthy, I'd lean Westbrook.

 

[SSOG]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

That's interesting. I think Reggie Bush is vastly overrated this year in all formats. I pick Westbrook over him every time.

Bush has shown he can and will score with McAllister alongside him. Westbrook is a 7-8 TD guy when he has had a GL vulture, and it appears Hunt will be that guy. Add in the fact that NO offense is better than Phily's offense and Westbrook seems to be injured, or playing through injuries, all the time and Bush is a no-brainer to me.

1 per 14 touches1 per 28 touches

1 per 31 touches

1 per 29 touches

Outside of his first season with heavy action, Westbrook has scored at pretty much exactly the same rate in every single season. Bush scored 1 TD per 30 touches last season, which is right in the same range as Westbrook's average. Since Westbrook's in line for a ton more touches than Bush this year, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Westbrook will score more TDs than Bush, too.

I'm not down on Bush. I've drafted Bush, I think he's going to be a top-12 RB. I just think that Westbrook is a proven top-5 type option. His per-game numbers are so awesome that even if Westy only plays in 12 games, I think that Westbrook + 4 games from his backup will still total more points than 16 games of Reggie Bush.

 

[To commish is my wish]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

That's interesting. I think Reggie Bush is vastly overrated this year in all formats. I pick Westbrook over him every time.

Bush has shown he can and will score with McAllister alongside him. Westbrook is a 7-8 TD guy when he has had a GL vulture, and it appears Hunt will be that guy. Add in the fact that NO offense is better than Phily's offense and Westbrook seems to be injured, or playing through injuries, all the time and Bush is a no-brainer to me.

1 per 14 touches1 per 28 touches

1 per 31 touches

1 per 29 touches

Outside of his first season with heavy action, Westbrook has scored at pretty much exactly the same rate in every single season. Bush scored 1 TD per 30 touches last season, which is right in the same range as Westbrook's average. Since Westbrook's in line for a ton more touches than Bush this year, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Westbrook will score more TDs than Bush, too.

I'm not down on Bush. I've drafted Bush, I think he's going to be a top-12 RB. I just think that Westbrook is a proven top-5 type option. His per-game numbers are so awesome that even if Westy only plays in 12 games, I think that Westbrook + 4 games from his backup will still total more points than 16 games of Reggie Bush.

So Bush, as a rookie, achieves Westbrook's career average, and you still take Westbrook over Bush? It seems to me that Bush will likely only get better in his 2nd season. Let's remember, Bush seemed to be in an utter daze for the first half of the season; it would appear to me that the 2nd half is more likely what his 2nd full season will most mirror.

 

[SSOG]

Bush is vastly underrated this year in all formats

That's interesting. I think Reggie Bush is vastly overrated this year in all formats. I pick Westbrook over him every time.

Bush has shown he can and will score with McAllister alongside him. Westbrook is a 7-8 TD guy when he has had a GL vulture, and it appears Hunt will be that guy. Add in the fact that NO offense is better than Phily's offense and Westbrook seems to be injured, or playing through injuries, all the time and Bush is a no-brainer to me.

1 per 14 touches1 per 28 touches

1 per 31 touches

1 per 29 touches

Outside of his first season with heavy action, Westbrook has scored at pretty much exactly the same rate in every single season. Bush scored 1 TD per 30 touches last season, which is right in the same range as Westbrook's average. Since Westbrook's in line for a ton more touches than Bush this year, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Westbrook will score more TDs than Bush, too.

I'm not down on Bush. I've drafted Bush, I think he's going to be a top-12 RB. I just think that Westbrook is a proven top-5 type option. His per-game numbers are so awesome that even if Westy only plays in 12 games, I think that Westbrook + 4 games from his backup will still total more points than 16 games of Reggie Bush.

So Bush, as a rookie, achieves Westbrook's career average, and you still take Westbrook over Bush? It seems to me that Bush will likely only get better in his 2nd season. Let's remember, Bush seemed to be in an utter daze for the first half of the season; it would appear to me that the 2nd half is more likely what his 2nd full season will most mirror.

Oh, we're taking into account that Bush was a 1st year starter? Well, when Westbrook was a 1st year starter, he averaged a TD per 14 touches, so Bush is clearly inferior, right?Westbrook will be the bell-cow in his offense, while Bush will not. I see Westbrook having a much easier time scoring TDs than Bush, who will likely be losing significant carries to McAllister. As for Bush's second year mirroring the second half of his first year... this is a hugely common fallacy, but a fallacy nonetheless. The truth is, sometimes splits happen. Just because a player or a team finishes the season strong doesn't mean they'll start the next season strong, too. Remember when everyone was predicting that Miami would go to the superbowl last year because they finished the previous season with 6 straight wins, which was evidence that they finally "got it" and would be a force to be reckoned with?

Maybe Bush's second half is more indicative of his play this season than his first half. Maybe his second half is just the sort of fluke coincidence that's going to happen when you have such small sample sizes in the NFL. We won't know until the season has played out. At the moment, it's just as likely that Bush's TD-per-30-touches number was on the high-end of what his career averages will be as it is that it's on the low-end.

Edit: Especially since being a rookie RB is not all that much of a negative. RB is the position with the lowest learning curve. Many RBs put up the best season of their careers as rookies. You can't expect the same leap forward from rookie-to-sophomore RBs as you can from rookie-to-sophomore QB/TE/WRs, simply because many (if not most) of these RBs have already made that leap from college to their rookie year.