What do you think about Farve missing camp now? (1 Viewer)

[footballsavvy]

New Orleans was NOT a top defense unit last season. They were 26th against the pass last season.

What does that have to do with todays game?

Well, when someone says the the Vikings played against one heck of a defensive team, there needs to be some sort of reason to believe that defense is good. Based on last years stats that defense is not so good.

Stats rarely tell the story when it comes to defense. Teams have to throw a lot against the Saints because they get down early and have to keep up. It skews the stats. Likewise the Saints are a lot weaker against the run than even the stats reflect. Its' just that not many teams have the luxury of grinding out their run game against them. Check YPC against the Saints. It's high. The Ravnes led the league in YPC against the run, but did not finish as the top run defense. They are still the top run defense.

 

[trogg78]

Congratulations! You just watched a football game. Now your an expert on the football season.

 

[Stealthycat]

the Saints defense had something to do with it too guys .... when Favre set and wasn't pressured he delivered

 

[groin pains]

I think Rice adds a whole new element to that passing attack. Seemed like the only sure handed option they had was Vin, and the Saints adjusted their def to remedy that. I know it was only week 1 but Favre was not on the same page with Bernard nor Percy. If they do not fix their passing game, it may be a long season for Minny and their fans!

 

[footballsavvy]

They were playing a really good D based on what? I watched the game. Tonight's game is a very small sample size. Personally, I would rather look at a larger sample size (say, I don't know, 16 games) that says the Saints are a below average defense and the Vikings are a good passing offense (8th ranked passing O last season, but without their top receiver and with an aging QB). So, what gives? Bad passing defense holds good passing offense to 171 yards. Which is true, New Orlean's passing defense is suddenly great or is Minnesota's passing O on the decline? Or is it just that Favre is not in sync with his Wrs?

They aren't suddenly great. Greer and Porter were known to be the best CB duo in the league coming into 2009. Granted, Greer was injured for a chunk of the season. Malcom Jenkins looks like the real deal and will replace Sharper just fine (maybe even better from a cover stand point). Yes, the Saints have an elite pass defense. Thier run defense is average or a little below. This is common knowledge.There's a whole lot more to it than how many yard per game they give up against the pass. Their corners are good enough to handle man converage for a large percentage of the game. This allows you to get very creative with blitz packages and shadow key players etc. It creates turnovers but you will give up the occassional big play. The Saints incorporate this style of defense because it is the perfect combination for their potent offense. If they win the turnover margin, they almost always win the game since they can almost always keep up on offense.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

They were playing a really good D based on what? I watched the game. Tonight's game is a very small sample size. Personally, I would rather look at a larger sample size (say, I don't know, 16 games) that says the Saints are a below average defense and the Vikings are a good passing offense (8th ranked passing O last season, but without their top receiver and with an aging QB). So, what gives? Bad passing defense holds good passing offense to 171 yards. Which is true, New Orlean's passing defense is suddenly great or is Minnesota's passing O on the decline? Or is it just that Favre is not in sync with his Wrs?

They aren't suddenly great. Greer and Porter were known to be the best CB duo in the league coming into 2009. Granted, Greer was injured for a chunk of the season. Malcom Jenkins looks like the real deal and will replace Sharper just fine (maybe even better from a cover stand point). Yes, the Saints have an elite pass defense. Thier run defense is average or a little below. This is common knowledge.There's a whole lot more to it than how many yard per game they give up against the pass. Their corners are good enough to handle man converage for a large percentage of the game. This allows you to get very creative with blitz packages and shadow key players etc. It creates turnovers but you will give up the occassional big play. The Saints incorporate this style of defense because it is the perfect combination for their potent offense. If they win the turnover margin, they almost always win the game since they can almost always keep up on offense.

It's useless... For some reason, watching them play last night inspires him to laminate the game with last years stats... Some people only see the numbers...

 

[Phase of the Game]

From what I saw, there weren't many bad throws by Farve. There were a few, but not like he was doing a horrible job. All the mistakes Harvin made.. if he would have caught half of the passes thrown to him the game would have been completely different. I thought farve was throwing fire when he could throw from balance. Balls were coming in fast and straight. And there were very few balls that weren't on target and without "zip" We must have been watching different games.

As biased and a hater that some blame me to be

Everyone on this board knows this about you.

 

[Phase of the Game]

I love the over-reaction to week 1, game 1.

This isn't hard to understand. Favre made his haters look foolish last year. They will take whatever they can to bash him and it is easy to see based on this thread and other threads here. It's fun to watch.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

From what I saw, there weren't many bad throws by Farve. There were a few, but not like he was doing a horrible job. All the mistakes Harvin made.. if he would have caught half of the passes thrown to him the game would have been completely different. I thought farve was throwing fire when he could throw from balance. Balls were coming in fast and straight. And there were very few balls that weren't on target and without "zip" We must have been watching different games.

As biased and a hater that some blame me to be

Everyone on this board knows this about you.

"Who ME!?!" lolAt this point it has to be shtick, He knows this about himself, and he knows we know.... It's fun conversation though, and knowing this about him makes it easier to just say "That Sho-nuff, just being a rascal.." lolNow if we could just keep him out of the Farve threads, we might see more of his good posting in the other threads!!

 

[Happy Ragnarok]

Some things we knew after week one last year:

-Chris Johnson was in a timeshare, and didn't look that good anyway.

-Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson were in for a rocky year.

-Drew Brees was going to shatter every passing record on the books.

-Missing so much time squabbling was going to cost Brandon Marshall, bigtime.

-With Marvin gone, Peyton didn't have enough reliable targets to get this team very far.

-Brett Favre should only be started in cases of extreme emergency, because he has no receivers, and is just going to hand the ball to ADP all year.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Some things we knew after week one last year:-Chris Johnson was in a timeshare, and didn't look that good anyway.-Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson were in for a rocky year.-Drew Brees was going to shatter every passing record on the books.-Missing so much time squabbling was going to cost Brandon Marshall, bigtime.-With Marvin gone, Peyton didn't have enough reliable targets to get this team very far.-Brett Favre should only be started in cases of extreme emergency, because he has no receivers, and is just going to hand the ball to ADP all year.

I can't remember thinking any of those things really..1) CJ was expected to produce good #'s last year, pretty much industry wide2) AJ was expected to have top 5 #'s and Shaub top 103) Drew Brees was expected to have top 3 QB #'s.. Shatter passing records? Never even crossed my mind4) I did think Marshall was going to be a bust last year, to be fair, he wasn't living up to previous expectations in '09'5) I never thought the key to Manning Success was Marvin. My only thought was "OK, now I have a chance to pick up the next Marvin in that offense" and "Clark is in for a big year" Everyone and there mother was picking up all available Indy WR's to have a chance at Manning's newest weapon.6) I drafted Farve as my starting QB in one league, I knew he'd have better than average #'s, and to be fair, I wasn't with the herd on this one. You're probably close in thinking Farve was drafted as a high end QB2 with upside. Who wouldn't have wanted him for his ADP last year, I targeted him in every draft.

 

[Happy Ragnarok]

Some things we knew after week one last year:-Chris Johnson was in a timeshare, and didn't look that good anyway.-Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson were in for a rocky year.-Drew Brees was going to shatter every passing record on the books.-Missing so much time squabbling was going to cost Brandon Marshall, bigtime.-With Marvin gone, Peyton didn't have enough reliable targets to get this team very far.-Brett Favre should only be started in cases of extreme emergency, because he has no receivers, and is just going to hand the ball to ADP all year.

I can't remember thinking any of those things really..1) CJ was expected to produce good #'s last year, pretty much industry wide2) AJ was expected to have top 5 #'s and Shaub top 103) Drew Brees was expected to have top 3 QB #'s.. Shatter passing records? Never even crossed my mind4) I did think Marshall was going to be a bust last year, to be fair, he wasn't living up to previous expectations in '09'5) I never thought the key to Manning Success was Marvin. My only thought was "OK, now I have a chance to pick up the next Marvin in that offense" and "Clark is in for a big year" Everyone and there mother was picking up all available Indy WR's to have a chance at Manning's newest weapon.6) I drafted Farve as my starting QB in one league, I knew he's have better than average #'s, and to be fair, I wasn't with the heard on this one. You're probably close in thinking Farve was drafted as a high end QB2 with upside. Who wouldn't have wanted him for his ADP last year, I targeted him in every draft.

I don't think you were here last year, then.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Some things we knew after week one last year:-Chris Johnson was in a timeshare, and didn't look that good anyway.-Matt Schaub and Andre Johnson were in for a rocky year.-Drew Brees was going to shatter every passing record on the books.-Missing so much time squabbling was going to cost Brandon Marshall, bigtime.-With Marvin gone, Peyton didn't have enough reliable targets to get this team very far.-Brett Favre should only be started in cases of extreme emergency, because he has no receivers, and is just going to hand the ball to ADP all year.

I can't remember thinking any of those things really..1) CJ was expected to produce good #'s last year, pretty much industry wide2) AJ was expected to have top 5 #'s and Shaub top 103) Drew Brees was expected to have top 3 QB #'s.. Shatter passing records? Never even crossed my mind4) I did think Marshall was going to be a bust last year, to be fair, he wasn't living up to previous expectations in '09'5) I never thought the key to Manning Success was Marvin. My only thought was "OK, now I have a chance to pick up the next Marvin in that offense" and "Clark is in for a big year" Everyone and there mother was picking up all available Indy WR's to have a chance at Manning's newest weapon.6) I drafted Farve as my starting QB in one league, I knew he's have better than average #'s, and to be fair, I wasn't with the heard on this one. You're probably close in thinking Farve was drafted as a high end QB2 with upside. Who wouldn't have wanted him for his ADP last year, I targeted him in every draft.

I don't think you were here last year, then.

Every year a few posters over analyze and exaggerate, for a variety of reasons... Some have the sky is falling syndrome, some are gloating based on previous predictions, some have a penchant to attacking certain players or teams. But I don't think any of the above thoughts were industry consensus..

 

[Clifford]

Good grief folks. New Orleans scored at least 17 points in every game last year (except meaningless week 17 when Brunell started). The Vikings just held them to 14 points, better than anyone else did last year. Was Favre's timing off? Yep. But they've got Miami and Detroit next, then a bye. They will get get the timing issue figured out and get several players healthy in the next few weeks. I have to laugh at those who are predicting an implosion. They just took the Super Bowl champs down to the wire, on the road, and AP looked good and the protection was solid. The timing will return for Favre and they will win 11 games. I'm not the least bit worried.

PT ran at will on them in the second half. Their run D looked tired, disinterested, and (surprise) poorly coached and unprepared.No reason to panic now, but I don't see any reason for thinking this is a Superbowl team as is.

 

[sho nuff]

You're pretty far off here.

You might want to look up his posts.While I obviously am a Packers fan, I can be realistic about them and see they have flaws. Try getting that out of this Bears fan in discussion.But this is not about him...so no need to go further.

 

[Phase of the Game]

You're pretty far off here.

I can be realistic

 

[sho nuff]

From what I saw, there weren't many bad throws by Farve. There were a few, but not like he was doing a horrible job. All the mistakes Harvin made.. if he would have caught half of the passes thrown to him the game would have been completely different. I thought farve was throwing fire when he could throw from balance. Balls were coming in fast and straight. And there were very few balls that weren't on target and without "zip" We must have been watching different games.

As biased and a hater that some blame me to be

Everyone on this board knows this about you.

No, a few of you still hold onto calling me a hater.Nothing I have said in this thread is hater.Sorry that you cannot take some criticism of Favre and consider just calling him a bit off last night to be hate.But also not shocking you parsed a quote just to come in here and take a shot at me.

 

[sho nuff]

"Who ME!?!" lolAt this point it has to be shtick, He knows this about himself, and he knows we know.... It's fun conversation though, and knowing this about him makes it easier to just say "That Sho-nuff, just being a rascal.." lolNow if we could just keep him out of the Farve threads, we might see more of his good posting in the other threads!!

Its not "who me" schtick.I have a strong opinion of Favre...no doubt from years of watching him play.Still top 5 and maybe #2 all time QB. This does not mean he cannot be legitimately criticized when he deserves it...but you seem to think so...that any criticism is hate.Look at this thread...please point out where I was just being a hater. I doubt you can do it.But if you have to take up with phase...who rarely wants to even discuss the topic and just wants it to be about me because I post a lot on the topic...fine.But can we keep it about the actual topic for once without making it about me?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

From what I saw, there weren't many bad throws by Farve. There were a few, but not like he was doing a horrible job. All the mistakes Harvin made.. if he would have caught half of the passes thrown to him the game would have been completely different. I thought farve was throwing fire when he could throw from balance. Balls were coming in fast and straight. And there were very few balls that weren't on target and without "zip" We must have been watching different games.

As biased and a hater that some blame me to be

Everyone on this board knows this about you.

No, a few of you still hold onto calling me a hater.Nothing I have said in this thread is hater.Sorry that you cannot take some criticism of Favre and consider just calling him a bit off last night to be hate.But also not shocking you parsed a quote just to come in here and take a shot at me.

No one is taking shots at you.. Your opinion is respected in every thread on the site.... Except for Farve threads.. lolJust admit it and then you can have as much fun with that fact as the rest of us do..

 

[sho nuff]

You're pretty far off here.

I can be realistic

Keep laughing...but you might want to look up my posts about the Packers and Vikings this year.What about them are not realistic?What about my posts in this thread are not realistic?With that said, I doubt you could answer those questions...but you shouldnt anyway...its not about me.Care to actually discuss the topic at hand...or going to just parse some more quotes to take shots at me?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

"Who ME!?!" lol

At this point it has to be shtick, He knows this about himself, and he knows we know.... It's fun conversation though, and knowing this about him makes it easier to just say "That Sho-nuff, just being a rascal.." lol

Now if we could just keep him out of the Farve threads, we might see more of his good posting in the other threads!!

Its not "who me" schtick.I have a strong opinion of Favre...no doubt from years of watching him play.

Still top 5 and maybe #2 all time QB. This does not mean he cannot be legitimately criticized when he deserves it...but you seem to think so...that any criticism is hate.

Look at this thread...please point out where I was just being a hater. I doubt you can do it.

But if you have to take up with phase...who rarely wants to even discuss the topic and just wants it to be about me because I post a lot on the topic...fine.

But can we keep it about the actual topic for once without making it about me?

Certainly, my apologies.. I assure you, I didn't know it was a sensitive issue for you..

 

[Moniker]

Last year he had no problem getting into a rhythm with a brand new team...Same with the Jets 2 years ago and that was a fully new offensive system. I think it has more to do with his ankle and Rice being out. Plus even if he was in camp he wouldn't have had much time with Camarillo.

First two games of last year the offense sucked except for one spectacular play by Peterson against the Browns.

 

[groin pains]

Maybe Childress should start wearing a hat. I think he was wearing a hat most games he coached last year. Maybe that is why Favre and everyone else with the exception of Shianc and AP looked like crap!

 

[sho nuff]

From what I saw, there weren't many bad throws by Farve. There were a few, but not like he was doing a horrible job. All the mistakes Harvin made.. if he would have caught half of the passes thrown to him the game would have been completely different. I thought farve was throwing fire when he could throw from balance. Balls were coming in fast and straight. And there were very few balls that weren't on target and without "zip" We must have been watching different games.

As biased and a hater that some blame me to be

Everyone on this board knows this about you.

No, a few of you still hold onto calling me a hater.Nothing I have said in this thread is hater.Sorry that you cannot take some criticism of Favre and consider just calling him a bit off last night to be hate.But also not shocking you parsed a quote just to come in here and take a shot at me.

No one is taking shots at you.. Your opinion is respected in every thread on the site.... Except for Farve threads.. lolJust admit it and then you can have as much fun with that fact as the rest of us do..

You might want to read phase's posts if you think he is not taking shots.As for my opinion being respected...Im not here to earn the respect of unreasonable people who will make excuses left and right and cannot admit that Favre looked a bit off last night.Others know it...my posts in this topic have been pretty clear in that...and there is plenty of support for what I have said from many others who have watched the game.Sorry that you can't seem to handle any criticism of Brett Favre if it comes from Sho Nuff.BTW...he is my backup QB in both leagues this year. Was tempted to start him over Kolb this week but I don't trust the Packer defense in stopping a decent passing offense.Favre is a great QB...but he was off last night. Made some great throws (that 2 minute drill was beautiful)...but he was off for much of the 2nd half (and so were the WRs). Between he and the WRs being off...and Chilly inexplicably ignoring Peterson in the 4th quarter...it was their downfall.

 

[Phase of the Game]

You're pretty far off here.

I can be realistic

Keep laughing...but you might want to look up my posts about the Packers and Vikings this year.What about them are not realistic?What about my posts in this thread are not realistic?

Well....you were dead wrong in about everything you posted about Favre and the Vikings last year.

 

[sho nuff]

Well....you were dead wrong in about everything you posted about Favre and the Vikings last year.

So being wrong about what I thought prior to the season = not realistic?Thanks for sticking to this thread...my quote was about being realistic about the Packers...and your evidence is because of my posts on Favre and the Vikings last year.Seriously...just stop. Talk about the topic here...or just go away.

 

[Keepers]

Gonna let you get your hate in while you can Sho, God knows you need it and have waited oh so long for it.2009 week 1@Cle 14/21 for 110 yards 1TD.2010 week 1@NO 15/27 for 171 yards 1TD. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!

The problem I have with this comparison is that they won the Cleveland game and they were up big. ADP had a huge game so Favre didn't have to do anything, so to say he only threw for 110 yards and 1 TD is bogus, that is purely a Fantasy Football take on the game. The fact is he still completed 67% of his passes and didn't throw a pick.QB ratings for the games:Cleveland game - 95.3NO game - 71.7

 

[Phase of the Game]

Well....you were dead wrong in about everything you posted about Favre and the Vikings last year.

just go away.

 

[dparker713]

I have not read the thread, but a couple of observations.

1. Favre clearly does not trust his WRs to run the correct routes - not sure if more practice from Favre would help that - maybe he would understand where they were going to break off a route - but I think that is more on the WRs than Favre.

2. I think Camarillo will be a Favre favorite until Rice gets back.

3. Shiancoe might have had his best game of the season last night - Defenses will clearly be keying on him in the game plans

4. Vikings should have kept C. Taylor - the drop off in talent when Peterson left the game was significant.

I agree with most all of this. I'd say that Shiancoe is in line for a big season though and I don't think last night will be his best game of the year. Shiancoe is going to be Favre's favorite target until Rice gets back, not Camarillo. Even after Rice comes back I would expect the chemistry and trust that Favre has developed with Shiancoe to remain intact and help keep that connection productive. Shiancoe was CLEARLY the only guy on that team that Farve trusted last night and rightfully so IMO. The other guys were horrible. No Min WR was able to even beat single coverage vs. the Saints DBs and they on several occasion (Harvin in-particular) ran the wrong routes or broke them off too soon. NO sold out to stop Peterson in this game and it worked. W/o Rice, it seems like that is what most everyone will do until Min proves they can beat them another way. I realize it was just one game, but that was my take on things last night anyway.

Umm, no it didnt. What worked for them was Min committing too many penalties and changing the game plan in the second half. Peterson could have had a monster game last night, but Min just started throwing way too much. And Favre looked fine in the first half, pretty good actually. Second half showed more issues as they threw the ball more and more. A few passes were slightly off and the WRs were just not getting open. On the whole, I'd blame the coaching staff for this loss first, WRs second, and Favre third.

 

[Clifford]

"Who ME!?!" lol

At this point it has to be shtick, He knows this about himself, and he knows we know.... It's fun conversation though, and knowing this about him makes it easier to just say "That Sho-nuff, just being a rascal.." lol

Now if we could just keep him out of the Farve threads, we might see more of his good posting in the other threads!!

Its not "who me" schtick.I have a strong opinion of Favre...no doubt from years of watching him play.

Still top 5 and maybe #2 all time QB. This does not mean he cannot be legitimately criticized when he deserves it...but you seem to think so...that any criticism is hate.

Look at this thread...please point out where I was just being a hater. I doubt you can do it.

But if you have to take up with phase...who rarely wants to even discuss the topic and just wants it to be about me because I post a lot on the topic...fine.

But can we keep it about the actual topic for once without making it about me?

Certainly, my apologies.. I assure you, I didn't know it was a sensitive issue for you..

Will you two please knock it off or get a room in Vegas or something?

 

[jurb26]

I have not read the thread, but a couple of observations.

1. Favre clearly does not trust his WRs to run the correct routes - not sure if more practice from Favre would help that - maybe he would understand where they were going to break off a route - but I think that is more on the WRs than Favre.

2. I think Camarillo will be a Favre favorite until Rice gets back.

3. Shiancoe might have had his best game of the season last night - Defenses will clearly be keying on him in the game plans

4. Vikings should have kept C. Taylor - the drop off in talent when Peterson left the game was significant.

I agree with most all of this. I'd say that Shiancoe is in line for a big season though and I don't think last night will be his best game of the year. Shiancoe is going to be Favre's favorite target until Rice gets back, not Camarillo. Even after Rice comes back I would expect the chemistry and trust that Favre has developed with Shiancoe to remain intact and help keep that connection productive. Shiancoe was CLEARLY the only guy on that team that Farve trusted last night and rightfully so IMO. The other guys were horrible. No Min WR was able to even beat single coverage vs. the Saints DBs and they on several occasion (Harvin in-particular) ran the wrong routes or broke them off too soon. NO sold out to stop Peterson in this game and it worked. W/o Rice, it seems like that is what most everyone will do until Min proves they can beat them another way. I realize it was just one game, but that was my take on things last night anyway.

Umm, no it didnt. What worked for them was Min committing too many penalties and changing the game plan in the second half. Peterson could have had a monster game last night, but Min just started throwing way too much. And Favre looked fine in the first half, pretty good actually. Second half showed more issues as they threw the ball more and more. A few passes were slightly off and the WRs were just not getting open. On the whole, I'd blame the coaching staff for this loss first, WRs second, and Favre third.

I'm not sure how can can say they didn't make Peterson the priority. They consistently played with 8 in the box and Shiancoe was able to get behind the coverage on several occasions because of NO's attention to Peterson. I agree that none of what happened was Favre's fault and I never said it was. The major issue was the Min WRs inability to beat single coverage for the majority of the game. When a team is rolling with single coverage as often as NO did then they are clearly focusing on stopping the run and pressuring the QB.

 

[sTuFFiT22]

Saints D is good in that "they don't give up the big plays down the sideline" as Favre stated in the post game press conference. So this leaves Favre to pick away at the Saints D in order to move down the field.

In order for this to happen two things need to take place.

1) Favre needs to grease up the gun.... takes a couple weeks

2) Favre and Receivers need "in game" experience to know how each will react to certain situations. So both QB and receiver know how to re-react. i.e. The deep throw to Harvin.

So I think we don't know a whole lot at this point. Week 4 bye will be huge for the Vikes since weeks 5-8 will make or break there season.

 

[dparker713]

I have not read the thread, but a couple of observations.

1. Favre clearly does not trust his WRs to run the correct routes - not sure if more practice from Favre would help that - maybe he would understand where they were going to break off a route - but I think that is more on the WRs than Favre.

2. I think Camarillo will be a Favre favorite until Rice gets back.

3. Shiancoe might have had his best game of the season last night - Defenses will clearly be keying on him in the game plans

4. Vikings should have kept C. Taylor - the drop off in talent when Peterson left the game was significant.

I agree with most all of this. I'd say that Shiancoe is in line for a big season though and I don't think last night will be his best game of the year. Shiancoe is going to be Favre's favorite target until Rice gets back, not Camarillo. Even after Rice comes back I would expect the chemistry and trust that Favre has developed with Shiancoe to remain intact and help keep that connection productive. Shiancoe was CLEARLY the only guy on that team that Farve trusted last night and rightfully so IMO. The other guys were horrible. No Min WR was able to even beat single coverage vs. the Saints DBs and they on several occasion (Harvin in-particular) ran the wrong routes or broke them off too soon. NO sold out to stop Peterson in this game and it worked. W/o Rice, it seems like that is what most everyone will do until Min proves they can beat them another way. I realize it was just one game, but that was my take on things last night anyway.

Umm, no it didnt. What worked for them was Min committing too many penalties and changing the game plan in the second half. Peterson could have had a monster game last night, but Min just started throwing way too much. And Favre looked fine in the first half, pretty good actually. Second half showed more issues as they threw the ball more and more. A few passes were slightly off and the WRs were just not getting open. On the whole, I'd blame the coaching staff for this loss first, WRs second, and Favre third.

I'm not sure how can can say they didn't make Peterson the priority. They consistently played with 8 in the box and Shiancoe was able to get behind the coverage on several occasions because of NO's attention to Peterson. I agree that none of what happened was Favre's fault and I never said it was. The major issue was the Min WRs inability to beat single coverage for the majority of the game. When a team is rolling with single coverage as often as NO did then they are clearly focusing on stopping the run and pressuring the QB.

Yes, NO was focusing on stopping the run. But no, their focusing on stopping the run did not work. Peterson was running the ball down their throat in the first half, despite a number of bad penalties that stalled drives. In the second half, it was Minnesota's play calling and not the NO defense that shut down Peterson.After the first drive of the third quarter, Minnesota had 4 drives. Peterson carried the ball a total of 3 times for 10 yards on those final 4 drives - the entire time the Vikings were down 5 points. Prior to that point Peterson had 16 carries for 77 yards thru the first 32 minutes of the game.

 

[Das Boot]

Shianco was the only dependable target out there tonight

Shianco and Camarillo were the only dependable targets out there tonight

Fixed.

Camarillo caught one pass!

True...but it was a nice gain and without looking at the final stats, probably their 3rd or 2nd longest gain of the game through the air.

he would have caught a 2nd for a first down except for Favre leading him too much... he almost made a spectacular catch even then.

I think it was a huge mistake for the Vikings not to have used Camarillo much more last night... in fact I think it is one of the key reasons they lost the the game.

So Camarillo's numbers last night...

One great sideline catch for 29 yards...

One almost spectacular catch for a vital first down - would have been an easy catch with a good pass...

The above results on.... Two Targets in the game.

 

[Breesisdaman]

If I was a Viking fan I wouldn't panic....but I would be mighty concerned with what I saw tonight.

It's not like the Saints totally beat the crap out of the Vikings. And they were playing at home.

Consider the dropped Meachum pass and two missed field goals and the fact that the Saints were in scoring range when they kneeled down. I wouldnt play this card if I were a Viking fan. The Score was not indicative of the Vikings efforts IMO. The Saints were just sloppy on offense.

 

[jurb26]

I have not read the thread, but a couple of observations.

1. Favre clearly does not trust his WRs to run the correct routes - not sure if more practice from Favre would help that - maybe he would understand where they were going to break off a route - but I think that is more on the WRs than Favre.

2. I think Camarillo will be a Favre favorite until Rice gets back.

3. Shiancoe might have had his best game of the season last night - Defenses will clearly be keying on him in the game plans

4. Vikings should have kept C. Taylor - the drop off in talent when Peterson left the game was significant.

I agree with most all of this. I'd say that Shiancoe is in line for a big season though and I don't think last night will be his best game of the year. Shiancoe is going to be Favre's favorite target until Rice gets back, not Camarillo. Even after Rice comes back I would expect the chemistry and trust that Favre has developed with Shiancoe to remain intact and help keep that connection productive. Shiancoe was CLEARLY the only guy on that team that Farve trusted last night and rightfully so IMO. The other guys were horrible. No Min WR was able to even beat single coverage vs. the Saints DBs and they on several occasion (Harvin in-particular) ran the wrong routes or broke them off too soon. NO sold out to stop Peterson in this game and it worked. W/o Rice, it seems like that is what most everyone will do until Min proves they can beat them another way. I realize it was just one game, but that was my take on things last night anyway.

Umm, no it didnt. What worked for them was Min committing too many penalties and changing the game plan in the second half. Peterson could have had a monster game last night, but Min just started throwing way too much. And Favre looked fine in the first half, pretty good actually. Second half showed more issues as they threw the ball more and more. A few passes were slightly off and the WRs were just not getting open. On the whole, I'd blame the coaching staff for this loss first, WRs second, and Favre third.

I'm not sure how can can say they didn't make Peterson the priority. They consistently played with 8 in the box and Shiancoe was able to get behind the coverage on several occasions because of NO's attention to Peterson. I agree that none of what happened was Favre's fault and I never said it was. The major issue was the Min WRs inability to beat single coverage for the majority of the game. When a team is rolling with single coverage as often as NO did then they are clearly focusing on stopping the run and pressuring the QB.

Yes, NO was focusing on stopping the run. But no, their focusing on stopping the run did not work. Peterson was running the ball down their throat in the first half, despite a number of bad penalties that stalled drives. In the second half, it was Minnesota's play calling and not the NO defense that shut down Peterson.After the first drive of the third quarter, Minnesota had 4 drives. Peterson carried the ball a total of 3 times for 10 yards on those final 4 drives - the entire time the Vikings were down 5 points. Prior to that point Peterson had 16 carries for 77 yards thru the first 32 minutes of the game.

I'd say their focus on stopping the run worked pretty well. Peterson didn't hit any big plays on them. He had a long of 14 yds in the 1st half and a long of 13 yds in the 2nd half. He carried the ball 13 times for 57 yds in the 1st half which is respectable but he never really hurt the NO D. He finished the game with 19 carries for 87 yds. With a guy like Peterson that is holding him in check. He never sniffed the endzone and other than the one scoring drive (in which Peterson never carried the ball, coincidence?) neither did the Minn offense. Minn was able to hit 2 big plays in the the passing game on that drive the largest of which was clearly set up by play action and NO's concentration on stopping the run. The bottom line is that Peterson was held to less than 100 yds rushing, only 101 total yds, scored no TDs and broke no big plays. I'd say that's a game plan that worked when one of the premier RBs in the game today touches the ball 22 times. The fact that Minn only scored 9 points all game doesn't hurt either.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

sho nuff never gets angry, which makes other people really angry. I always enjoy reading these exchanges.

 

[sho nuff]

sho nuff never gets angry, which makes other people really angry. I always enjoy reading these exchanges.

No need to get angy. Its a message board.Though, Id say you are in the minority that enjoys those exchanges. (not trying to argue here...just don't think many really enjoy that kind of thing).

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Well sometimes by "read" I mean "chuckle as I rapidly scroll through a million nested quotes."

 

[dparker713]

I'd say their focus on stopping the run worked pretty well. Peterson didn't hit any big plays on them. He had a long of 14 yds in the 1st half and a long of 13 yds in the 2nd half. He carried the ball 13 times for 57 yds in the 1st half which is respectable but he never really hurt the NO D. He finished the game with 19 carries for 87 yds. With a guy like Peterson that is holding him in check. He never sniffed the endzone and other than the one scoring drive (in which Peterson never carried the ball, coincidence?) neither did the Minn offense. Minn was able to hit 2 big plays in the the passing game on that drive the largest of which was clearly set up by play action and NO's concentration on stopping the run. The bottom line is that Peterson was held to less than 100 yds rushing, only 101 total yds, scored no TDs and broke no big plays. I'd say that's a game plan that worked when one of the premier RBs in the game today touches the ball 22 times. The fact that Minn only scored 9 points all game doesn't hurt either.

So, with 8 men in the box, giving up 4.4 ypc in the 1st half is repsectable and 4.6 ypc for the game is holding him in check? The stuff on the 3rd and short on the first drive is really the only time you can say the NO D held up against the run. The rest of the time the Minnesota offense stalled because of penalties or failure of the passing game. Minnesota could have and should have stuck with the running game - NO D couldn't stop them even with 8 in the box.

 

[jurb26]

I'd say their focus on stopping the run worked pretty well. Peterson didn't hit any big plays on them. He had a long of 14 yds in the 1st half and a long of 13 yds in the 2nd half. He carried the ball 13 times for 57 yds in the 1st half which is respectable but he never really hurt the NO D. He finished the game with 19 carries for 87 yds. With a guy like Peterson that is holding him in check. He never sniffed the endzone and other than the one scoring drive (in which Peterson never carried the ball, coincidence?) neither did the Minn offense. Minn was able to hit 2 big plays in the the passing game on that drive the largest of which was clearly set up by play action and NO's concentration on stopping the run. The bottom line is that Peterson was held to less than 100 yds rushing, only 101 total yds, scored no TDs and broke no big plays. I'd say that's a game plan that worked when one of the premier RBs in the game today touches the ball 22 times. The fact that Minn only scored 9 points all game doesn't hurt either.

So, with 8 men in the box, giving up 4.4 ypc in the 1st half is repsectable and 4.6 ypc for the game is holding him in check? The stuff on the 3rd and short on the first drive is really the only time you can say the NO D held up against the run. The rest of the time the Minnesota offense stalled because of penalties or failure of the passing game. Minnesota could have and should have stuck with the running game - NO D couldn't stop them even with 8 in the box.

Peterson's longest run of the game was on 2 & 30 when NO was playing soft. So in reality he had about a 3.5 avg in the 1st half and 4 for the game, when NO was playing the aggressive 8 men in the box D.

 

[vfourmax]

Umm, no it didnt. What worked for them was Min committing too many penalties and changing the game plan in the second half. Peterson could have had a monster game last night, but Min just started throwing way too much.

And Favre looked fine in the first half, pretty good actually. Second half showed more issues as they threw the ball more and more. A few passes were slightly off and the WRs were just not getting open. On the whole, I'd blame the coaching staff for this loss first, WRs second, and Favre third.

I have to agree that the coaching/play calling had more if at not at least as much to do with the Vikings loss as did the play on the field. I think first off that the coaches went a little to overboard on trying to protect Favre to prevent the beating he took in last years Championship game and not releasing someone out of the backfield to give the Saints dump off concerns. I will say that the pictures they showed pregame of Favres thigh bruising after the championship game he took one heck of a beating last year, more than I had realized. But having your whole game plan revolve around that nullifies a lot of your offensive strengths.

I cannot for the life of me though understand how when you are within 1 score of taking the lead in the game that you do not have your number one playmaker on the team in Peterson involved in the second half as everytime he touches the ball he may just break the big one. Also with the receivers being covered and the lack of timing between the QB and receivers to boot not calling plays that would allow dumping the ball off to Peterson just beyond the line of scrimmage and letting him do his thing to get the yards needed did not make sense either.

From a fantasy perspective I was very high on Favre last year and owned him with great results on several teams. This year I avoided Favre and own him on none of my teams as although I think he will do okay at times I think that he will not produce anywhere near the same numbers as he did last year. I have to also agree that even though it is only one game to look at that my assessment thusfar is that Favre does not look to be as pumped up or show that inner internal fire or love of playing the game to the level of the past few years that he has shown.

To me at least Favre seemed to exhibit some of the father time is catching up a bit and no doubt this will be the last year he puts on the helmet.

If the Vikings want to win they need to center their game with Peterson being the feature and Favre to be the weapon that keeps the defense honest and not able to stack the box.

 

[Donnybrook]

If I was a Viking fan I wouldn't panic....but I would be mighty concerned with what I saw tonight.

It's not like the Saints totally beat the crap out of the Vikings. And they were playing at home.

Consider the dropped Meachum pass and two missed field goals and the fact that the Saints were in scoring range when they kneeled down. I wouldnt play this card if I were a Viking fan. The Score was not indicative of the Vikings efforts IMO. The Saints were just sloppy on offense.

So in your opinion, the Minesota 46 yard line is scoring range. Hmm... Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say look at the points the Saints could have scored if they didn't screw up but Viking fans need to forget about the points that the Vikings could have scored against the Saints in the NFC Championship if they didn't fumble etc. Points on the board are the only thing that counts. Period.

 

[encaitar]

I have to admit I must've been watching a different game than a lot of you were. I thought Favre looked fine. He missed a few throws, but was moving better than I thought he would. The Vikings don't have a reliable receiver right now. I think this game made it pretty clear what Sidney Rice did for them. Having a true gamebreaker to stretch the field opens everything else up and the Vikings were missing that. I was hoping Berrian could be that for them, but it's pretty clear he and Favre just aren't on the same page. I excuse Harvin a bit because of all the problems he's had in the offseason, but I hope Camarillo can become someone for Favre since I don't think they can be a passing threat if Shiancoe the only receiver Favre trusts.

Speaking of Shiancoe, I can't believe noone else wanted this guy 4 years ago. The Vikings really lucked into a great TE with him. Great blocker, good hands, runs crisp routes, and an absolute force in the redzone. Hope he can keep it up.

Peterson looks good. I enjoyed seeing him put two hands on the ball every time he met with more than one defender. Hope that helps fix his issues. Vikings will need to hand him the ball a lot more than they did last year, at least until Sidney comes back.

The real story of the game for me(and the biggest reason giving me hope as a Vikings fan).... the Vikings had 3 CBs dressed for this game. They were without their starting CB and his talented rookie replacement(that will probably steal a starting spot in the near future) and they played decent pass defense. The first drive had me worried, but they really buckled down. All of this with virtually no pass rush on Brees. Jared Allen was nonexistant(was he even playing?) and Kevin Williams and Ray Edwards only had marginal pressure at times. I really believe this defense can really become a force if they get everyone healthy and the front four can start getting the pressure on the QB that we're used to seeing.

 

[watsonrm]

Umm. Favre said he was off. Why not just listen to the man himself?

It's going to take a couple of weeks to get up to speed. In the competitive NFC, that's not a good thing for Minnesota. Even if they get 11 wins, they will not likely win any key tiebreakers with this "let's get warmed up in game 4" philosophy.

 

[Da Guru]

Umm. Favre said he was off. Why not just listen to the man himself?It's going to take a couple of weeks to get up to speed. In the competitive NFC, that's not a good thing for Minnesota. Even if they get 11 wins, they will not likely win any key tiebreakers with this "let's get warmed up in game 4" philosophy.

This was Farves second X-game. Still working himself into regular season shape.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

Even if they get 11 wins, they will not likely win any key tiebreakers with this "let's get warmed up in game 4" philosophy.

Why not?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Favre is getting what he deserves. He should have walked away but he just can't.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Umm. Favre said he was off. Why not just listen to the man himself?It's going to take a couple of weeks to get up to speed. In the competitive NFC, that's not a good thing for Minnesota. Even if they get 11 wins, they will not likely win any key tiebreakers with this "let's get warmed up in game 4" philosophy.

Rather than calling out team mates in public, carrying the blame on his own shoulders, that's what integrity and team leadership is all about. Class Act!

 

[fatness]

link

"Right now, we're kind of grasping at straws trying to figure out things," Favre said. "I think we, me included, can get on the same page even better."

Lots of players do that in training camp.