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What if you found out that the FDA was misleading the public about Ivermectin? (1 Viewer)

chet

Footballguy
Bear with me for a bit and try to suspend any preconceived notions you may have about Ivermectin.  

I find it strange that the FDA has been so vehemently against Ivermectin.  Doctors who prescribe it are being vilified, and people who take it are being ridiculed.  However, it appears that other countries have used Ivermectin successfully and I understand why it should work for COVID.  In addition to being an anti-parasite, Ivermectin is also an immunomodulator.  It down regulates at least two cytokines that we have seen spike in COVID patients: IL-6 and GM-CSF. So it should be effective with patients who have elevated levels of those cytokines.

One explanation for the FDA's behavior could be to protect the idiots who are taking the animal version of the drug and doing more harm than good.  There is, however, a cynical and much darker explanation that is being talked about on another message board that I frequent.  Some are suggesting that the FDA is pandering to big pharma and the dollars aren't big enough--Ivermectin is cheap and safe (when properly dosed).  

I am not a conspiracy theorist but if the cynical explanation is true, I think many people should go to prison for a long time--many, many people could have been saved.  

 
Bear with me for a bit and try to suspend any preconceived notions you may have about Ivermectin.  

I find it strange that the FDA has been so vehemently against Ivermectin.  Doctors who prescribe it are being vilified, and people who take it are being ridiculed.  However, it appears that other countries have used Ivermectin successfully and I understand why it should work for COVID.  In addition to being an anti-parasite, Ivermectin is also an immunomodulator.  It down regulates at least two cytokines that we have seen spike in COVID patients: IL-6 and GM-CSF. So it should be effective with patients who have elevated levels of those cytokines.

One explanation for the FDA's behavior could be to protect the idiots who are taking the animal version of the drug and doing more harm than good.  There is, however, a cynical and much darker explanation that is being talked about on another message board that I frequent.  Some are suggesting that the FDA is pandering to big pharma and the dollars aren't big enough--Ivermectin is cheap and safe (when properly dosed).  

I am not a conspiracy theorist but if the cynical explanation is true, I think many people should go to prison for a long time--many, many people could have been saved.  


The FDA does not generally approve of use of drugs that have not gone through a vigorous and lengthy series of clinical trials to prove that they are safe for their intended use (and that quite often takes about 3-5 years). There are exceptions, such as the COVID vaccines that were fast tracked by the Trump Administration. 

However, I would doubt that a medicine used to deworm horses probably has had much of a history of FDA clinical trials, as far as its safety for human consumption and, of course, its effectiveness is concerned in treating COVID.

 
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I do not think they lied. I think they downplayed it because they ere afraid of the lack of human testing, esp. for the virus. I do not think it is nearly as effective as other pharmaceuticals we have at our disposal. The initial attempted rollout through social media and a politician gave pause, as it should have. I think it will find acceptance eventually as a third tier covid performer that you only take if you cannot afford human drugs.

 
The FDA does not generally approve of use of drugs that have not gone through a vigorous and lengthy series of clinical trials to prove that they are safe for their intended use (and that quite often takes about 3-5 years). There are exceptions, such as the COVID vaccines that were fast tracked by the Trump Administration. 

However, I would doubt that a medicine used to deworm horses probably has had much of a history of FDA clinical trials, as far as its safety for human consumption and, of course, its effectiveness is concerned in treating COVID.
Ivermectin is approved for human use, just not for covid-19.  Presumably it went through whatever clinical trial protocol was in place whenever it was approved for whatever parasitic disease it's supposed to treat.

 
Has one of the manufacturers of this run clinical trials and submitted the results for review by the FDA?

 
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Fun fact.  We gave Ivermectin to all the Afghanis we flew out of Afghanistan once they landed for processing.  Their covid rates were "remarkably low" as well. 


Funer fact: They were given that for parasitic worms, not as COVID treatment:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-afghanistan-refugees/fact-check-the-u-s-prescribes-ivermectin-to-refugees-for-parasitic-worms-not-covid-19-idUSL1N2Q605Q

Fact Check-The U.S. prescribes ivermectin to refugees for parasitic worms, not COVID-19

Outrage has spread online that Afghan refugees entering the United States will receive the drug ivermectin although it does not have U.S. approval as a COVID-19 treatment. However, the posts miss the vital context that refugees are given ivermectin for infections unrelated to the novel coronavirus.

The claims originated on Twitter when users shared a screenshot from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website saying that all Middle Eastern, Asian, North African, Latin American, and Caribbean refugees should receive ivermectin two days before departure to the United States (here). Internet archives suggest the page first appeared on April 3, 2021 (here).

One tweet posted on Sept. 2 reads: “Guess who is getting IVERMECTIN before they arrive. AFGHANISTAN REFUGEES!” (here). Another expressed anger that U.S. citizens were encouraged to get “the vaccine”, presumably referring to immunisation against COVID-19, but had difficulty getting hold of ivermectin (here ).

However, none of the documents states that refugees should be given ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19. The CDC webpage depicted in the tweets states that ivermectin is administered as a “presumptive treatment for intestinal parasites” (bit.ly/3n4g2eq), a fact repeated in the 2019 CDC document (here , page three, paragraph one).

Ivermectin has long been used to treat parasitic infections in humans and animals, but the products are different. This is explained by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (here , here) and the UK government (here). However, the FDA says it has received multiple reports of patients being hospitalised after using ivermectin intended for horses.

VERDICT

Missing context. The United States recommends certain refugees receive ivermectin to treat parasitic worms, not COVID-19.

 
I do not think they lied. I think they downplayed it because they ere afraid of the lack of human testing, esp. for the virus. I do not think it is nearly as effective as other pharmaceuticals we have at our disposal. The initial attempted rollout through social media and a politician gave pause, as it should have. I think it will find acceptance eventually as a third tier covid performer that you only take if you cannot afford human drugs.


IVM is a human drug. A human drug for which the Nobel Prize was awarded. You've bought into an actual misinformation campaign.

 
Ivermectin is approved for human use, just not for covid-19.  Presumably it went through whatever clinical trial protocol was in place whenever it was approved for whatever parasitic disease it's supposed to treat.


Not the same form of Ivermectin as is used for horses:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-afghanistan-refugees/fact-check-the-u-s-prescribes-ivermectin-to-refugees-for-parasitic-worms-not-covid-19-idUSL1N2Q605Q

Ivermectin has long been used to treat parasitic infections in humans and animals, but the products are different. This is explained by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (here , here) and the UK government (here). However, the FDA says it has received multiple reports of patients being hospitalised after using ivermectin intended for horses.

 
Funer fact: They were given that for parasitic worms, not as COVID treatment:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-afghanistan-refugees/fact-check-the-u-s-prescribes-ivermectin-to-refugees-for-parasitic-worms-not-covid-19-idUSL1N2Q605Q

Fact Check-The U.S. prescribes ivermectin to refugees for parasitic worms, not COVID-19

Outrage has spread online that Afghan refugees entering the United States will receive the drug ivermectin although it does not have U.S. approval as a COVID-19 treatment. However, the posts miss the vital context that refugees are given ivermectin for infections unrelated to the novel coronavirus.

The claims originated on Twitter when users shared a screenshot from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website saying that all Middle Eastern, Asian, North African, Latin American, and Caribbean refugees should receive ivermectin two days before departure to the United States (here). Internet archives suggest the page first appeared on April 3, 2021 (here).

One tweet posted on Sept. 2 reads: “Guess who is getting IVERMECTIN before they arrive. AFGHANISTAN REFUGEES!” (here). Another expressed anger that U.S. citizens were encouraged to get “the vaccine”, presumably referring to immunisation against COVID-19, but had difficulty getting hold of ivermectin (here ).

However, none of the documents states that refugees should be given ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19. The CDC webpage depicted in the tweets states that ivermectin is administered as a “presumptive treatment for intestinal parasites” (bit.ly/3n4g2eq), a fact repeated in the 2019 CDC document (here , page three, paragraph one).

Ivermectin has long been used to treat parasitic infections in humans and animals, but the products are different. This is explained by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) (here , here) and the UK government (here). However, the FDA says it has received multiple reports of patients being hospitalised after using ivermectin intended for horses.

VERDICT

Missing context. The United States recommends certain refugees receive ivermectin to treat parasitic worms, not COVID-19.
Take a minute and process what you read.  I never said they took it directly for covid.  Why would we give Ivermectin to everyone for covid when there were minimal cases?  That comment was to show Ivermectin is an approved product for humans which some don't seem to grasp yet. 

Horse dewormer is a product that contains ivermectin.  Hope that helps.   

 
I do not think they lied. I think they downplayed it because they ere afraid of the lack of human testing, esp. for the virus. I do not think it is nearly as effective as other pharmaceuticals we have at our disposal. The initial attempted rollout through social media and a politician gave pause, as it should have. I think it will find acceptance eventually as a third tier covid performer that you only take if you cannot afford human drugs.
This is my assumption too.  If I had to guess -- and this is really just a guess with no particular foundation in reality besides my own speculation -- this is going to turn out to be one of those things where the FDA didn't want Joe Sixpack self-medicating with a marginal drug that was never intended for this particular use.  It would not surprise me if ivermectin ended up being some kind of third-rate treatment that might have the occasional use in the developing world.  

Regardless, ivermectin isn't a good substitute for vaccination.  At best, it's an after-the-fact treatment that you won't need if you just got the shots in the first place.  And there are better after-the-fact treatments available now anyway.

 
Has one of the manufacturers of this run clinical trials and submitted the results for review by the FDA?


Have you considered how expensive it is to run adequately scaled double-blind clinical trials? Effectively the only entities that have enough financial incentive/capacity are big pharma looking to sell new drug under patent or (in theory, but lately not practice) big govt looking to protect its population. The problem arises when those two entities become entrenched and aligned to push novel drugs and ignore long-out-of-patent repurposed drugs like IVM and HCL.

 
Take a minute and process what you read.  I never said they took it directly for covid.  Why would we give Ivermectin to everyone for covid when there were minimal cases?  That comment was to show Ivermectin is an approved product for humans which some don't seem to grasp yet. 

Horse dewormer is a product that contains ivermectin.  Hope that helps.   


No, but that could be inferred from you post and some people have made that leap after hearing about the Afghanis. 

 
Bear with me for a bit and try to suspend any preconceived notions you may have about Ivermectin.  

I find it strange that the FDA has been so vehemently against Ivermectin.  Doctors who prescribe it are being vilified, and people who take it are being ridiculed.  However, it appears that other countries have used Ivermectin successfully and I understand why it should work for COVID.  In addition to being an anti-parasite, Ivermectin is also an immunomodulator.  It down regulates at least two cytokines that we have seen spike in COVID patients: IL-6 and GM-CSF. So it should be effective with patients who have elevated levels of those cytokines.

One explanation for the FDA's behavior could be to protect the idiots who are taking the animal version of the drug and doing more harm than good.  There is, however, a cynical and much darker explanation that is being talked about on another message board that I frequent.  Some are suggesting that the FDA is pandering to big pharma and the dollars aren't big enough--Ivermectin is cheap and safe (when properly dosed).  

I am not a conspiracy theorist but if the cynical explanation is true, I think many people should go to prison for a long time--many, many people could have been saved.  


Does not make a ton of sense - wasn't Trump a supporter of Ivermectin?  It was his agency to run - if he wanted to push that as a solution.

 
Does not make a ton of sense - wasn't Trump a supporter of Ivermectin?  It was his agency to run - if he wanted to push that as a solution.


The FDA has no interest in making Trump look good.  Pretty sure it's the opposite.

 
COVID pandemic is still quite new with many unknowns and variables.

I would hope all avenues would be explored, leave no stone unturned to find anything that will be effective.  If a person is very ill with COVID give them options.  People have stated they have had success so why not keep it in study and find out.  Hopefully I will never be in a desperate situation but if I am I want anything that could possibly help available.

Funny Fact: Viagra was never meant to an ED medication; it was developed to be a blood pressure medicine.

 
This starts to sound a little conspiracy theory-esque. 


You seem to have this strange belief that people do not act in a way which advances their politics.  I would like to meet these people. Because despite people proclaiming otherwise, I discover they are full of crap.  

 
You seem to have this strange belief that people do not act in a way which advances their politics.  I would like to meet these people. Because despite people proclaiming otherwise, I discover they are full of crap.  
We are all just speculating in here.

If anyone knows anything for sure please do more than post on boards…and don’t come anywhere near me until you have gone public, I don’t want any stray bullets catching me. 

 
I could have added that the FDA didn't want to endorse someone who suggested injecting bleach to kill the virus.  
Still sounds conspiracy theoryish.

I hope this isn’t an accurate claim or at the very least it was poor decisions rather than a money or political thing. 

In any case I agree people should go to prison if it were to be proven true. 

 
I always assumed it was a matter of going through proper vetting versus not. It’s cool if it’s effective, but had to be safe and throughly tested like other drugs for folks (horses too I guess)

 
I always assumed it was a matter of going through proper vetting versus not. It’s cool if it’s effective, but had to be safe and throughly tested like other drugs for folks (horses too I guess)
Definitely needs to be safer than opioids.  

 
Have you considered how expensive it is to run adequately scaled double-blind clinical trials? Effectively the only entities that have enough financial incentive/capacity are big pharma looking to sell new drug under patent or (in theory, but lately not practice) big govt looking to protect its population. The problem arises when those two entities become entrenched and aligned to push novel drugs and ignore long-out-of-patent repurposed drugs like IVM and HCL.
Figured you'd know if it had been done. I do not.

It seems bizarre that 1. Given the amount (millions) of people that are touting this stuff,  it's not been done (which weirdly you're defending the "why" not so I'm assuming you know the answer is no?. 2. There is no company or government out there wiling to try, given 1. 

The kid on the bench is probably on the bench because the other kids are more skilled. But maybe the coach is being paid off I guess.

Seems like we'd have a hundred volunteers for a trial between folks here and some of my relatives.

 
 However, it appears that other countries have used Ivermectin successfully and I understand why it should work for COVID.  
If you’re going to make the big claims you are making, can you please at least link us to actual data/studies? If other countries have used it successfully, surely there are studies/data that back up just how effective it is. I shouldn’t have to come looking for it if you are going to make such huge claims.

 
Only you did.  Isn't this your shtick?  Word games? "accuracy of quotes"...

You should be better at it. 


I was talking about drawing an inference from a news report, which is not the same thing as the accuracy of a specific quote.

 
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The FDA has no interest in making Trump look good.  Pretty sure it's the opposite.


Didn't the FDA rush the vaccine approval process?  Who appoints the head of the FDA?  Is that a political appointment?  (Don't know)

Just seems like it a branch of the executive office, and Trump could fire an uncooperative FDA chief, and appoint a more favorable chief.

 
IVM is a human drug. A human drug for which the Nobel Prize was awarded. You've bought into an actual misinformation campaign.


Can we deplatform and cancel @cosjobs and @squistionnow?  I mean, this is the standard, right?    :)

Note: In no way am I lumping in cosjob with squistion, just that misinformation gets you the boot.  :)

 
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Didn't the FDA rush the vaccine approval process?  Who appoints the head of the FDA?  Is that a political appointment?  (Don't know)

Just seems like it a branch of the executive office, and Trump could fire an uncooperative FDA chief, and appoint a more favorable chief.


Yes, but IIRC that was a unique situation, as drug companies for years had already been working on what they thought would be the next COVID variant or mutation to surface, so they weren't starting from scratch or square one with some previously unknown disease (such as AIDS in the 80s) and they had already done much of preliminary work and testing. 

 
IVM is a human drug. A human drug for which the Nobel Prize was awarded. You've bought into an actual misinformation campaign.


As I noted in a post after yours. The Ivermectin that is approved and used by humans is not the same form of Ivermectin that is given to deworm horses. 

 
Bear with me for a bit and try to suspend any preconceived notions you may have about Ivermectin.  

I find it strange that the FDA has been so vehemently against Ivermectin.  Doctors who prescribe it are being vilified, and people who take it are being ridiculed.  However, it appears that other countries have used Ivermectin successfully and I understand why it should work for COVID.  In addition to being an anti-parasite, Ivermectin is also an immunomodulator.  It down regulates at least two cytokines that we have seen spike in COVID patients: IL-6 and GM-CSF. So it should be effective with patients who have elevated levels of those cytokines.

One explanation for the FDA's behavior could be to protect the idiots who are taking the animal version of the drug and doing more harm than good.  There is, however, a cynical and much darker explanation that is being talked about on another message board that I frequent.  Some are suggesting that the FDA is pandering to big pharma and the dollars aren't big enough--Ivermectin is cheap and safe (when properly dosed).  

I am not a conspiracy theorist but if the cynical explanation is true, I think many people should go to prison for a long time--many, many people could have been saved.  
Internet mythology.  30 minutes skimming google results debunk the myth.

 
Ivermectin is a medication available for both animals and humans. However, Ivermectin preparation for animals is very different from those approved for humans. Humans should not consume medication for animals. Some forms of Ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

health.nd.gov covid 19 fact sheet

Ok, that's fine and dandy. But it doesn't explain why the shelves are bare at the animal supply and vet supplies?

Unless, overzealous vax deniers are opting for the animal version. "Why not?  It's all the same, right?"

This is why my buddy the vet is pissed he can't prescribe it for his horsey patients. There is none available (at least for his offices in Gainesville) in horse country.

 
Ivermectin is a medication available for both animals and humans. However, Ivermectin preparation for animals is very different from those approved for humans. Humans should not consume medication for animals. Some forms of Ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

health.nd.gov covid 19 fact sheet

Ok, that's fine and dandy. But it doesn't explain why the shelves are bare at the animal supply and vet supplies?

Unless, overzealous vax deniers are opting for the animal version. "Why not?  It's all the same, right?"

This is why my buddy the vet is pissed he can't prescribe it for his horsey patients. There is none available (at least for his offices in Gainesville) in horse country.


I've repeated that several times, but it has been ignored by some folks here. 

 
I've repeated that several times, but it has been ignored by some folks here. 


Not ignored. No one is advocating for humans to take the animal form. I haven't seen one post advocating for horse paste. That is what the IVM haters have clinged to. That is what CNN accused Joe Rogan of doing when in FACT he stated many times that he was prescribed the human form of the drug by his doctor. CNN embarrassed and exposed itself with its shameful misreporting of that story, which didn't subside even after Gupta went on the JRE and bent his knee to Joe.

 
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