What is your position on the legacy of Michael Jackson? (1 Viewer)

[Apple Jack]

Somewhere between King of Pop and King of Pedo.

What is a place I would rather not find myself?

 

[B-Deep]

proof that if you are famous enough even the most heinous of crimes can be politely overlooked

 

[MC Gas Money]

Is there any evidence he touched children other than testimony?

No. But you know, somebody has to be buying those supermarket tabloids.

Paparazzi gotta eat

 

[Fennis]

Ah yes, the old "if you don't believe it, then you obviously believe Jerry Sandusky was innocent too" routine. Well thought out retort there. Almost as good as believing "Well, 23 other families have said he did that, but I won't believe it without proof" being much more likely than "Hey, here's an easy way to get some money."

You guys must have been standouts on the Debate Team.

Jesus. What kind of proof do you want? You don't believe his multiple victims, apparently because he dances and sings in a pleasing manner.

 

[butcher boy]

Ah yes, the old "if you don't believe it, then you obviously believe Jerry Sandusky was innocent too" routine. Well thought out retort there. Almost as good as believing "Well, 23 other families have said he did that, but I won't believe it without proof" being much more likely than "Hey, here's an easy way to get some money."

You guys must have been standouts on the Debate Team.

Jesus. hat kind of proof do you want? You don't believe his multiple victims, apparently because he dances and sings in a pleasing manner.

Whatever kind of proof you have will do.

 

[Fennis]

Ah yes, the old "if you don't believe it, then you obviously believe Jerry Sandusky was innocent too" routine. Well thought out retort there. Almost as good as believing "Well, 23 other families have said he did that, but I won't believe it without proof" being much more likely than "Hey, here's an easy way to get some money."

You guys must have been standouts on the Debate Team.

Jesus. hat kind of proof do you want? You don't believe his multiple victims, apparently because he dances and sings in a pleasing manner.

Whatever kind of proof you have will do.

feel free to read this http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2005/07/orth200507

includes parts such as:

The accuser's testimony was more shocking than anyone could have imagined. I was struck by the amount of liquor the boy said he and Michael had consumed together—not just the "Jesus juice" (white wine) in Diet Coke cans I reported last year, but vodka, rum, and what he called "Jim Bean." He said that they would take alcohol from the secret wine cellar at Neverland to Jackson's bedroom, where, his brother had testified, they played a game in which they placed crank calls, and if no one answered, the person dialing had to take a big gulp of wine. The brother had also testified to seeing Michael with an erection and with his hand moving on the accuser's crotch.

The accuser testified that Michael had given him a jacket and a watch he told him was worth $75,000. He also said Michael had taught him how to eavesdrop on phone conversations in Neverland. He recounted how Michael had once simulated sex with a mannequin of a young girl, and how they had looked at pornography in magazines and on the Internet. An issue of Barely Legal magazine presented as evidence had both their fingerprints on it. Police searching Neverland in 2003 had found dozens of erotic magazines and books in Jackson's bedroom and bathroom.

About the molestation itself, the boy testified, "We just came back from drinking in the arcade … and Michael started talking to me about masturbation. He said that if men don't masturbate that they can get to a level where they can—might rape a girl or they might be like, kind of unstable.… He told me a story of [knowing] a boy one time who didn't masturbate and he had sex with a dog." He said Michael had told him that if he didn't know how "he would do it for me." Then, he said, they were in the star's bed wearing pajamas and Michael told him "it's natural for boys to do it.… I was under his covers and then that's when he put his hands in my pants and started masturbating me." After about five minutes, the boy said, he ejaculated. The next time, he said, they were on top of the covers when Michael "grabbed my hand in a way to try to do it to him. I pulled my hand away, because I didn't want to do it."

He was present in 1993 when the police photographed the star's genitals in order to see if he had certain identifying spots which his first accuser, Jordie Chandler, had drawn for the authorities. The photos matched the drawings exactly and would have been Sneddon's most powerful evidence if the case had gone to trial. Instead, they helped Chandler collect $25 million in a civil suit.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Ah yes, the old "if you don't believe it, then you obviously believe Jerry Sandusky was innocent too" routine. Well thought out retort there. Almost as good as believing "Well, 23 other families have said he did that, but I won't believe it without proof" being much more likely than "Hey, here's an easy way to get some money."

You guys must have been standouts on the Debate Team.

Jesus. hat kind of proof do you want? You don't believe his multiple victims, apparently because he dances and sings in a pleasing manner.

Whatever kind of proof you have will do.

feel free to read this http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2005/07/orth200507includes parts such as:

The accuser's testimony was more shocking than anyone could have imagined. I was struck by the amount of liquor the boy said he and Michael had consumed togethernot just the "Jesus juice" (white wine) in Diet Coke cans I reported last year, but vodka, rum, and what he called "Jim Bean." He said that they would take alcohol from the secret wine cellar at Neverland to Jackson's bedroom, where, his brother had testified, they played a game in which they placed crank calls, and if no one answered, the person dialing had to take a big gulp of wine. The brother had also testified to seeing Michael with an erection and with his hand moving on the accuser's crotch.

The accuser testified that Michael had given him a jacket and a watch he told him was worth $75,000. He also said Michael had taught him how to eavesdrop on phone conversations in Neverland. He recounted how Michael had once simulated sex with a mannequin of a young girl, and how they had looked at pornography in magazines and on the Internet. An issue of Barely Legal magazine presented as evidence had both their fingerprints on it. Police searching Neverland in 2003 had found dozens of erotic magazines and books in Jackson's bedroom and bathroom.

About the molestation itself, the boy testified, "We just came back from drinking in the arcade and Michael started talking to me about masturbation. He said that if men don't masturbate that they can get to a level where they canmight rape a girl or they might be like, kind of unstable. He told me a story of [knowing] a boy one time who didn't masturbate and he had sex with a dog." He said Michael had told him that if he didn't know how "he would do it for me." Then, he said, they were in the star's bed wearing pajamas and Michael told him "it's natural for boys to do it. I was under his covers and then that's when he put his hands in my pants and started masturbating me." After about five minutes, the boy said, he ejaculated. The next time, he said, they were on top of the covers when Michael "grabbed my hand in a way to try to do it to him. I pulled my hand away, because I didn't want to do it."

He was present in 1993 when the police photographed the star's genitals in order to see if he had certain identifying spots which his first accuser, Jordie Chandler, had drawn for the authorities. The photos matched the drawings exactly and would have been Sneddon's most powerful evidence if the case had gone to trial. Instead, they helped Chandler collect $25 million in a civil suit.

And that is accompanied by the report where the parents took him to the hospital and could show the alcohol in the blood stream. Oh wait. It's not? I'm sure it totally happened, though. Because people wouldn't make things up to get money.

Once again, not saying it didn't happen. Just saying your "proof" differs from what I would refer to as proof. Like Chappelle said, I've never seen the alleged penis, but I'm pretty sure I could describe it, too.

 

[GoFishTN]

I voted for all 4 because I could. And because it's probably closest to the truth.

I figured this position would be an option which is why I made it open ended.

I'm sure he would have wanted it that way.

 

[Fennis]

Ah yes, the old "if you don't believe it, then you obviously believe Jerry Sandusky was innocent too" routine. Well thought out retort there. Almost as good as believing "Well, 23 other families have said he did that, but I won't believe it without proof" being much more likely than "Hey, here's an easy way to get some money."

You guys must have been standouts on the Debate Team.

Jesus. hat kind of proof do you want? You don't believe his multiple victims, apparently because he dances and sings in a pleasing manner.

Whatever kind of proof you have will do.

feel free to read this http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2005/07/orth200507includes parts such as:

The accuser's testimony was more shocking than anyone could have imagined. I was struck by the amount of liquor the boy said he and Michael had consumed togethernot just the "Jesus juice" (white wine) in Diet Coke cans I reported last year, but vodka, rum, and what he called "Jim Bean." He said that they would take alcohol from the secret wine cellar at Neverland to Jackson's bedroom, where, his brother had testified, they played a game in which they placed crank calls, and if no one answered, the person dialing had to take a big gulp of wine. The brother had also testified to seeing Michael with an erection and with his hand moving on the accuser's crotch.

The accuser testified that Michael had given him a jacket and a watch he told him was worth $75,000. He also said Michael had taught him how to eavesdrop on phone conversations in Neverland. He recounted how Michael had once simulated sex with a mannequin of a young girl, and how they had looked at pornography in magazines and on the Internet. An issue of Barely Legal magazine presented as evidence had both their fingerprints on it. Police searching Neverland in 2003 had found dozens of erotic magazines and books in Jackson's bedroom and bathroom.

About the molestation itself, the boy testified, "We just came back from drinking in the arcade and Michael started talking to me about masturbation. He said that if men don't masturbate that they can get to a level where they canmight rape a girl or they might be like, kind of unstable. He told me a story of [knowing] a boy one time who didn't masturbate and he had sex with a dog." He said Michael had told him that if he didn't know how "he would do it for me." Then, he said, they were in the star's bed wearing pajamas and Michael told him "it's natural for boys to do it. I was under his covers and then that's when he put his hands in my pants and started masturbating me." After about five minutes, the boy said, he ejaculated. The next time, he said, they were on top of the covers when Michael "grabbed my hand in a way to try to do it to him. I pulled my hand away, because I didn't want to do it."

He was present in 1993 when the police photographed the star's genitals in order to see if he had certain identifying spots which his first accuser, Jordie Chandler, had drawn for the authorities. The photos matched the drawings exactly and would have been Sneddon's most powerful evidence if the case had gone to trial. Instead, they helped Chandler collect $25 million in a civil suit.

And that is accompanied by the report where the parents took him to the hospital and could show the alcohol in the blood stream. Oh wait. It's not? I'm sure it totally happened, though. Because people wouldn't make things up to get money.

Once again, not saying it didn't happen. Just saying your "proof" differs from what I would refer to as proof. Like Chappelle said, I've never seen the alleged penis, but I'm pretty sure I could describe it, too.

OK, you don't have to believe anything you don't want to. I'm not going to argue 20 year old cases. the world is better off with that molester dead.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Have we figured out if Billy Jean was in fact his lover?

 

[MC Gas Money]

What could have been on Jacksons penis that is so distinguishing?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

A white sequined glove?

 

[Fennis]

What could have been on Jacksons penis that is so distinguishing?

dunno, but maybe that can be a career path for you. police artist specializing in dongs.

 

[cstu]

Is there any evidence he touched children other than testimony?

No.

Not that I am aware of but the man definitely had an unusual attraction to children, especially boys. The allegations may not have been enough to prove anything but he did admit to having sleepovers where he slept with the boys that came to visit.

Maybe I am being unfair but when a man in his 30s is hosting sleepovers and sleeping with the boys in the same bed I can't help but believe he was up to something.

Child molesters are smarter than this and that's why I don't believe it.

MJ never grew up and was a child himself. He was under the delusion that what he was doing wasn't weird.

 

[Greggity]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

 

[Fennis]

Why do so many people still believe MJ was a child predator? All we have to go on is the word of three people. The first, Jordan Chandler has admitted he lied - his Dad plotted for the money. The second, the case of Gavin Arviso, found MJ not guilty of all charges. Between both of these accusations Michael was raided, examined and put under the full scrutiny of the law, yet no evidence was found, nothing at all to substantiate any of these claims. Now Wade Robson has decided he's previously lied in court and all the numerous times he defended MJ were in fact, not true. So how can you take the word of someone who's admitted he lied in court? People have formed opinions based on headlines and without actually looking into the facts. Yes, Michael was different from anyone else on the planet. Yes his actions are difficult to understand. But being different doesn't mean he'd sexually abuse a child and corrupt an innocent life. Innocent until proven guilty.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2353244/Michael-Jackson-victim-Wade-Robson-claims-leaked-FBI-files-proves-told-truth-child-molestation.html#ixzz38E4t3axG

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seriously?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chandler.asp

 

[Fennis]

Michael Jackson wasn't a child who never grew up. He was a self made billionaire. That doesn't happen by luck.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

 

[jonessed]

Michael Jackson wasn't a child who never grew up. He was a self made billionaire. That doesn't happen by luck.

Why can't he be both? I don't believe he was all that great of a businessman. You don't have to be to make money in show business.

I don't know if he was a pedophile or not either, but I think it's pretty obvious he spent a lot of time and money trying to live or relive his childhood.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

What could have been on Jacksons penis that is so distinguishing?

dunno, but maybe that can be a career path for you. police artist specializing in dongs.

lol

 

[Fennis]

Michael Jackson wasn't a child who never grew up. He was a self made billionaire. That doesn't happen by luck.

Why can't he be both? I don't believe he was all that great of a businessman. You don't have to be to make money in show business.

I don't know if he was a pedophile or not either, but I think it's pretty obvious he spent a lot of time and money trying to live or relive his childhood.

I feel there's a substantial difference between trying to relive their childhood and saying someone is a child who never grew up.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Have we figured out if Billy Jean was in fact his lover?

She was more like a beauty queen from a movie screen.

 

[Greggity]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

Dont worry i am not offended, i think you are pretty dumb yourself. Hooray for us...

 

[SmoovySmoov]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

Dont worry i am not offended, i think you are pretty dumb yourself. Hooray for us...

Anytime you want to have that intelligence showdown, maybe "loser leaves the board forever", you let me know, Sweet ####.

 

[Greggity]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

Dont worry i am not offended, i think you are pretty dumb yourself. Hooray for us...

Anytime you want to have that intelligence showdown, maybe "loser leaves the board forever", you let me know, Sweet ####.

I do better at face to face showdowns

 

[SmoovySmoov]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

Dont worry i am not offended, i think you are pretty dumb yourself. Hooray for us...

Anytime you want to have that intelligence showdown, maybe "loser leaves the board forever", you let me know, Sweet ####.

I do better at face to face showdowns

Of course you do.

 

[Greggity]

He was the Michael Sam of music.....

I can appreciate posters like Fennis, who has a different opinion than me, but who isn't ignorant about it. Maybe your trolling here, but judging by your other posts, I think it's just that you're plain dumb.

Dont worry i am not offended, i think you are pretty dumb yourself. Hooray for us...

Anytime you want to have that intelligence showdown, maybe "loser leaves the board forever", you let me know, Sweet ####.

I do better at face to face showdowns

Of course you do.

People seem to be much more nice in person ive found. Funny how it works out....

 

[Godsbrother]

Is there any evidence he touched children other than testimony?

No.

Not that I am aware of but the man definitely had an unusual attraction to children, especially boys. The allegations may not have been enough to prove anything but he did admit to having sleepovers where he slept with the boys that came to visit.

Maybe I am being unfair but when a man in his 30s is hosting sleepovers and sleeping with the boys in the same bed I can't help but believe he was up to something.

Child molesters are smarter than this and that's why I don't believe it.

MJ never grew up and was a child himself. He was under the delusion that what he was doing wasn't weird.

Teachers and priests are usually pretty smart too but there are a lot of cases of teachers and priests molesting children. It is a compulsion they can't control and/or the belief that they won't get caught or are above the law. They still do it even though they know it is against the law and they might be caught. Heck a lot of them do it even after they get caught.

They can't control it, it doesn't matter how smart they are. The unfortunate thing is that some molesters have someone covering for them (Penn State, Catholic chuch, etc) or have the money to try and keep it quiet.

 

[General Malaise]

chimo

 

[McGarnicle]

Hoo!!

HeeHee!!

Ow!!

 

[NCCommish]

So basically a lot of people here would never find anyone guilty of really anything. I mean all there is in most cases is one person saying something about another. This isn't TV. CSI doesn't provide the fiber proving it all. Child molestation comes down to the word of a child versus the word of an adult. Children do lie. But adults are way better at it. When you have this many accusers then saying it was always a money grab is stupid.

 

[cstu]

So basically a lot of people here would never find anyone guilty of really anything. I mean all there is in most cases is one person saying something about another. This isn't TV. CSI doesn't provide the fiber proving it all. Child molestation comes down to the word of a child versus the word of an adult. Children do lie. But adults are way better at it. When you have this many accusers then saying it was always a money grab is stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of the accusers have testified in court.

 

[cstu]

So basically a lot of people here would never find anyone guilty of really anything. I mean all there is in most cases is one person saying something about another. This isn't TV. CSI doesn't provide the fiber proving it all. Child molestation comes down to the word of a child versus the word of an adult. Children do lie. But adults are way better at it. When you have this many accusers then saying it was always a money grab is stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of the accusers have testified in court.

I believe you're wrong. ETA: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/jackson.trial/

ETA: And unsurprisingly, Jackson's "dream team" of well paid mega-lawyers made mincemeat out of a young boy's statements.

Interesting, I hadn't read that before. However he was found not guilty of all charges and the jury believed the mom was a con woman who forced the kids to lie.http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Fennis]

So basically a lot of people here would never find anyone guilty of really anything. I mean all there is in most cases is one person saying something about another. This isn't TV. CSI doesn't provide the fiber proving it all. Child molestation comes down to the word of a child versus the word of an adult. Children do lie. But adults are way better at it. When you have this many accusers then saying it was always a money grab is stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong but none of the accusers have testified in court.

I believe you're wrong. ETA: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/10/jackson.trial/

ETA: And unsurprisingly, Jackson's "dream team" of well paid mega-lawyers made mincemeat out of a young boy's statements.

Interesting, I hadn't read that before. However he was found not guilty of all charges and the jury believed the mom was a con woman who forced the kids to lie.http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/national/14jackson.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://reflectionsonthedance.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/gavinandmichael2.jpg?w=300

 

[Todd Andrews]

Vile Sandusky-level pedophile.

 

[RandyDB]

He was probably a pedophile and his music wasn't all that great.

I admit he was popular, and I was kinda a fan of him as part of The Jackson Five.

But then someone introduced me to Zepplin.

 

[Ilov80s]

He was probably a pedophile and his music wasn't all that great.

I admit he was popular, and I was kinda a fan of him as part of The Jackson Five.

But then someone introduced me to Zepplin.

Thank god none of the members of Zeppelin ever had sex with underage girls.

 

[Quez]

RIP Michael Jackson

Authorities and wildlife officials then found and shot the albino crocodile called Michael Jackson by locals and recovered the mans body.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/19/popular-crocodile-shot-dead-after-killing-fisherman-in-front-his-wife/?intcmp=latestnews

 

[General Malaise]

He was probably a pedophile and his music wasn't all that great.

I admit he was popular, and I was kinda a fan of him as part of The Jackson Five.

But then someone introduced me to Zepplin.

Thank god none of the members of Zeppelin ever had sex with underage girls.

Yeah, I remember when Jimmy Page got in hot water for inviting six and seven year old girls over to his mansion where he plied them with alcohol disguised as a religious sacrament and then slept in the same bed with them absent any other adult supervision, pretending the act was completely innocent and normal behavior.

Oh, wait...

 

[Greggity]

I loved the jacksons "Destiny" and even his "Off the wall" album. Everything after Thriller i wasnt really into....

 

[Sconch]

F this guy. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/michael-jackson-police-reports-pornography-collection

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

F this guy. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/michael-jackson-police-reports-pornography-collection

Why didn't they convict him just on that?

 

[Wrigley]

Why didn't they convict him just on that?

White privilege 

 

[Godsbrother]

F this guy. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/michael-jackson-police-reports-pornography-collection

Sick if true but I am a little skeptical about reports surfacing more than a decade later...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This Neverland documentary is appalling, what a criminal, disgusting monster this person was.

 

[Capella]

This is extremely tough to watch. 

 

[Neo]

This is extremely tough to watch. 

Just brutal. 

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Sick if true but I am a little skeptical about reports surfacing more than a decade later...

I couldn't see much of the article.  Guy was ####ed up by his dad, and certainly very disturbed.  

Generational talent, and must have been a tortured soul.  His music was awesome, but not worth the kids he messed up.  

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I will remember him mostly for being king of pop....If we focus on the negative, we all suck.

Who cares if that catholic priest molested 80 kids, I'll always remember him for the $432 he raised for the church choir by putting on an epic bake sale.

 

[rockaction]

I've never remembered him fondly at all. When he was alive, I thought he was getting away with sick, sick stuff. 

What a tragedy all around.