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When to draft Brady or Manning (1 Viewer)

zallen

Footballguy
It seems like this year in particular many people are reexamining the old conventional wisdom of drafting RBs early, and perhaps also the reluctance to draft QBs early.

Insofar as the question of how early to draft Brady or Manning in concerned, I have a different take which I've yet to hear anyone mention. It goes like this:

[My League Info: 10 team redraft league (yardage-based; non-PPR). Roster limit: 14 players. Starters: QB, 2 RBs, 3 WRs, 1 Flex, PK & DST. 10 points for all TDs, whether rushing, receiving or passing. 10 point bonus for rushing/receiving over 100 yds or passing over 300 yds.]

In my opinion, aside from the fact that Brady and Manning are almost uniformly recognized as the top 2 QBs, they have one additional and very critical distinction from all other QBs: THEY ARE A VIRTUAL LOCK TO PLAY 16 GAMES. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think either has missed a game in their careers. And I see no reason to bet against that streak. Can you say that about any RB? I think not.

Okay, so at this point you're thinking "That's your different take?!" Well, no. Here's the important point I don't hear anyone talking about: I think Brady and Manning uniquely allow an owner to carry them as the sole QB on his roster (other than a one-time bye filler). That's not much of a gamble if you ask me. They're unlikely to get hurt, and you would never think about sitting them. Consequently, if you draft Brady or Manning, that frees up a roster spot for an additional RB or WR . . and later free agent pick ups!

If you're playing in a relatively shallow league as I do, that's a big deal! My team was a case in point last year. For years I had religiously taken a RB in the 1st round. But after struggling mightily at the QB position the year before, I took Manning as the first QB off the board at 1.08. (I know, should've picked Brady.) Didn't draft another QB. Decided my year would rise or fall on Manning's shoulders. The additional roster flexibility this gave me to more aggressively make free agent pick ups was pure gold. Among other moves, I was able to pick up Derek Anderson (who I later traded for Willie Parker) and Ryan Grant. On the backs of these pick ups, I was able to win our league championship. In fact, in our championship round, I started only 2 players from my original draft: Manning and my DST. I seriously doubt that would have happened if I were forced to fill another roster spot with a backup QB (as I would have had to do if I drafted a more marginal starting QB).

When you consider the additional roster spot flexibility Brady and Manning uniquely provide, the high probability they'll again score more fantasy points than any other QBs, your ability to leave them as your no-brainer starter each week, and the always dicey injury risk for RBs . . . I say Brady or Manning are easily worthy of a 1st round pick. We haven't yet drawn for our league draft order (we randomly draw each year), but I've already decided I'll pick Brady or Manning (in that order) in the 1st round (as my sole QB draft selection). I might think twice about taking LT or Peterson at the 1 or 2 pick if that's my draft position, but otherwise that's my unwaivering 1st round draft plan. I will definitely pick Brady as early as 1.03, and possibly even higher. Do I think he'll score 50 TDs again? Not at all. But if he as only 75% of the stats he racked up last year, he'll be well worth the investment.

Am I crazy?

 
Nope. You are sane.

Decent idea, but as you stated - shallow leagues only. I'm in an 8-teamer that I take Manning in the first nearly every year.

 
I'm looking at getting Brady at the 4th pick this year. PPR/All TDs 6pt. The Draft Dominator even tells me it's the right choice. I just believe that all leagues are created differently and so you will have to examine your scoring system and then do some mocks to see what kind of RBs are there in the 2nd/3rd/4th... I'm probably going Brady/RB/WR/WR then get a couple of the following as my other RBs--Lewis, Graham, James, Jacobs, Maroney, Turner, T.Jones, McFadden, Parker, Stewart. Kind of a #2RBBC if you will, similar to the QBBC, DTBC.

 
I'm looking at getting Brady at the 4th pick this year. PPR/All TDs 6pt. The Draft Dominator even tells me it's the right choice. I just believe that all leagues are created differently and so you will have to examine your scoring system and then do some mocks to see what kind of RBs are there in the 2nd/3rd/4th... I'm probably going Brady/RB/WR/WR then get a couple of the following as my other RBs--Lewis, Graham, James, Jacobs, Maroney, Turner, T.Jones, McFadden, Parker, Stewart. Kind of a #2RBBC if you will, similar to the QBBC, DTBC.
Glad you mentioned that. In fact, based our league setup, Draft Dominator assigns a No. 2 overall ranking to Brady, behind only LT.
 
I think Brady and Manning uniquely allow an owner to carry them as the sole QB on his roster (other than a one-time bye filler).
..unless you play in a league which mandates a backup.I have seen done what you're saying though. In fact I've seen it done at TE and (boring as it is) PK too. But personally I like the idea of having to draft backups, because if not then a lot of extra RB/WRs come off the board for reasons you're saying, and the larger the league is the more that sucks because there's less "beef" to draft or otherwise get...and WWs can be thin as it is....no thx

 
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Added roster flexibility and getting to spend your 11th round pick on something other than a backup QB are both "nice" things to have.

Neither are worth intentionally taking a player you expect to have less value with your first round pick. 4000/30 out of a QB is 3rd round value. If you draft Peyton/Brady in the 1st (especially early 1st) EXPECTING to get 3rd round value, you're practically telling yourself that you're happy with a bust.

Chevy Malibus have really conveniently placed cupholders. While nice, this doesn't mean you should pay as much for them as you do do for the BMW where you have to hold your drink in your lap.

 
In fact, in our championship round, I started only 2 players from my original draft: Manning and my DST. I seriously doubt that would have happened if I were forced to fill another roster spot with a backup QB (as I would have had to do if I drafted a more marginal starting QB).

Am I crazy?
You must play in a pretty awful league, or a 4-6 team league if you can win your league title and only have 2 players on your final roster that you drafted, and the rest are from waiver wire magic. Definitely recommend better draft preparation.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
Added roster flexibility and getting to spend your 11th round pick on something other than a backup QB are both "nice" things to have.Neither are worth intentionally taking a player you expect to have less value with your first round pick. 4000/30 out of a QB is 3rd round value. If you draft Peyton/Brady in the 1st (especially early 1st) EXPECTING to get 3rd round value, you're practically telling yourself that you're happy with a bust.Chevy Malibus have really conveniently placed cupholders. While nice, this doesn't mean you should pay as much for them as you do do for the BMW where you have to hold your drink in your lap.
If everybody in your league has a similar view to the guy above, then this "do the opposite" type of thinking has more merit
 
I'm in a 12 teamer with the 3rd pick. If you really want one of the top 4 QB's, you have to look at are you better with a SJax or Westbrook and Romo or Brees than you are with a Brady and say, a McGahee or Grant combo? I like the former better than the latter. Romo or Brees should be available from 18-20. I do like the strategy of going WR/WR in the third/fourth rounds then look at what 2nd RB's are available (LenDale White types, etc.). Not a bad strategy if you are picking in the first 3rd of the draft.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Added roster flexibility and getting to spend your 11th round pick on something other than a backup QB are both "nice" things to have.

Neither are worth intentionally taking a player you expect to have less value with your first round pick. 4000/30 out of a QB is 3rd round value. If you draft Peyton/Brady in the 1st (especially early 1st) EXPECTING to get 3rd round value, you're practically telling yourself that you're happy with a bust.

Chevy Malibus have really conveniently placed cupholders. While nice, this doesn't mean you should pay as much for them as you do do for the BMW where you have to hold your drink in your lap.
Just looking back at the last 5 or 6 years, 4000/30 is QB1 in half the years, and top 2 or 3 for the rest. In a standard scoring system, that is not 3rd round value. The perception might be skewed given last year the top 3 QBs did better than that, but the historical average says that production is usually the QB1 or 2/3 at the least.Plus, taking Brady/Manning you have the insurance that they are likely hitting those stats, as opposed to essentially "rolling the dice" on a Gore/McGahee/Portis/Barber who even if healthy have a good chance of not achieving their draft value.

To each their own, but I'll feel pretty good this year if I end up with Brady, Manning or Romo.

 
I'm suprised at how often I'm seeing Brees as a top 3-4 QB. I owned Brees last year, he might have ended up with good numbers but he started really badly. It was'nt until the middle of the season that Brees started playing better, it was painful to own him. I started out the season 2-5 because of Brees, I ended up in the superbowl for my league but mostly because I picked up Warner. I'll have to think long and hard before picking Brees again.

If Brady plays anywhere near last year, picking him up early is worth it. In my league, the guy with Brady(the rest of his team sucked) skated until the playoffs and lost because of Brady's one bad game. In my league, Brady scored like 750 pts and LT scored like 500 pts.

I must admit, I'm thinking of doing this also because my league favors QB's. But, I've always picked a RB in the first round, it's hard to change.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Added roster flexibility and getting to spend your 11th round pick on something other than a backup QB are both "nice" things to have.

Neither are worth intentionally taking a player you expect to have less value with your first round pick. 4000/30 out of a QB is 3rd round value. If you draft Peyton/Brady in the 1st (especially early 1st) EXPECTING to get 3rd round value, you're practically telling yourself that you're happy with a bust.

Chevy Malibus have really conveniently placed cupholders. While nice, this doesn't mean you should pay as much for them as you do do for the BMW where you have to hold your drink in your lap.
Not in his league with all 10pt TD's.... Or even in my league with all 6pt TD's.
 
I'm looking at getting Brady at the 4th pick this year. PPR/All TDs 6pt. The Draft Dominator even tells me it's the right choice. I just believe that all leagues are created differently and so you will have to examine your scoring system and then do some mocks to see what kind of RBs are there in the 2nd/3rd/4th... I'm probably going Brady/RB/WR/WR then get a couple of the following as my other RBs--Lewis, Graham, James, Jacobs, Maroney, Turner, T.Jones, McFadden, Parker, Stewart. Kind of a #2RBBC if you will, similar to the QBBC, DTBC.
Dude - you're in a league where Edgerrin James, Jamal Lewis, FWP are expected to be available in the 5th?
 
I'm suprised at how often I'm seeing Brees as a top 3-4 QB. I owned Brees last year, he might have ended up with good numbers but he started really badly. It was'nt until the middle of the season that Brees started playing better, it was painful to own him. I started out the season 2-5 because of Brees, I ended up in the superbowl for my league but mostly because I picked up Warner. I'll have to think long and hard before picking Brees again.
Interesting point, and one that makes me want to re-evaluate Brres. My situation with Brees is a complete 180 degrees opposite as yours. We had one of our weaker owners in our league draft Brees. He started out poorly like you did, and got frustrated with Brees and went with another QB (could have been Warner actually, I don't remember) Well, he made the stupid mistake of dropping Brees after the slow start because he was so frustrated with him. I was ever so happy to see him do this and I scooped Brees off the waiver wire quicker than a ten buck ho can slip out of her clothes. So, I don't have the experience of the painful part of owning Brees last season. I just know that Brees was one of the big reasons that I won the championship last season (That and the fact that the best team in our league had Brady and lost in the playoffs) Yes, I'm admitting that I won the championship even though I didn't have the best team.I have been really high on Brees all off season, but I think your point may have some merit, I have to re-evaluate my thoughts on this one.
 
I'm in a 12 teamer with the 3rd pick. If you really want one of the top 4 QB's, you have to look at are you better with a SJax or Westbrook and Romo or Brees than you are with a Brady and say, a McGahee or Grant combo? I like the former better than the latter. Romo or Brees should be available from 18-20. I do like the strategy of going WR/WR in the third/fourth rounds then look at what 2nd RB's are available (LenDale White types, etc.). Not a bad strategy if you are picking in the first 3rd of the draft.
:excited: You can have a combo of either:1) Brees/Romo/Palmer/Ben + elite RB2) Brady/Manning + second tier/unproven RBWhile Brady/Manning is a lock for ~25-30pts a week I would be concerned about the production from the RB you need to take as a sacrifice. I think in the long run the first option provides a better chance of higher and more consistent points per week. If you're in an 8 team league however I would be happy with something like Brady and Lynch.
I'm suprised at how often I'm seeing Brees as a top 3-4 QB. I owned Brees last year, he might have ended up with good numbers but he started really badly. It was'nt until the middle of the season that Brees started playing better, it was painful to own him. I started out the season 2-5 because of Brees, I ended up in the superbowl for my league but mostly because I picked up Warner. I'll have to think long and hard before picking Brees again.If Brady plays anywhere near last year, picking him up early is worth it. In my league, the guy with Brady(the rest of his team sucked) skated until the playoffs and lost because of Brady's one bad game. In my league, Brady scored like 750 pts and LT scored like 500 pts.I must admit, I'm thinking of doing this also because my league favors QB's. But, I've always picked a RB in the first round, it's hard to change.
Yes Brees' start last year was unlikely and unexpected; it would be even more unlikely for him to repeat those poor performances. While NO plays TB twice and some other difficult teams they also finish the year vs ATL CHI DET CAR which should make him productive in the playoffs.
 
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A quick question for you guys.

What is the point Difference for your Leagues between Top QB to top RB

For my league last year we have crazy QB #'s

Brady 532 Tomlinson 243

Romo 410 Westbrook 213

Manning 377 Peterson 186

Brees 361

I am wondering what everyone else looks like.

 
benbadman said:
In fact, in our championship round, I started only 2 players from my original draft: Manning and my DST. I seriously doubt that would have happened if I were forced to fill another roster spot with a backup QB (as I would have had to do if I drafted a more marginal starting QB).

Am I crazy?
You must play in a pretty awful league, or a 4-6 team league if you can win your league title and only have 2 players on your final roster that you drafted, and the rest are from waiver wire magic. Definitely recommend better draft preparation.
In the OP's defense, several years ago a guy won one of my leagues (12 teams) by making around 50 transactions (and we charge $$ for pickups) and he only had 2 or 3 starters from his original draft. It was the year Rudi Johnson went off the last part of the season after taking over for Dillon.I was feeling nearly invincible with my squad of Alexander, LT, Ahman, Harrison, Favre, etc., and he somehow smacked me by 20 in the playoffs with a bunch of waiver wire pickups.

The good news is that since then he thinks he can win like this every year, so his drafting hasn't improved.

 
benbadman said:
In fact, in our championship round, I started only 2 players from my original draft: Manning and my DST. I seriously doubt that would have happened if I were forced to fill another roster spot with a backup QB (as I would have had to do if I drafted a more marginal starting QB).

Am I crazy?
You must play in a pretty awful league, or a 4-6 team league if you can win your league title and only have 2 players on your final roster that you drafted, and the rest are from waiver wire magic. Definitely recommend better draft preparation.
Uhhh, yeah right. For your information, I made 2 trades which allowed me to acquire Willie Parker and TJ Houshmandzadeh. I also picked up Ryan Grant (among others) before others realized his value. What you call "waiver wire magic" I call sound management. And I'll stack my draft prep up against that of anyone. I also draft largely according to Draft Dominator.Many are still overlooking my main point: The safety Brady and Manning offer allow you to keep another roster spot open by not carrying a backup QB. Would anyone be comfortable doing so with any other QB?

 
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So is everyone on here of the opinion that if you have the first pick in a 12 team re-draft league that gives 6 pts for all TD's that LT2 is still the better pick over Brady. I am facing this decision myself. 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing or rec, 1 pt per reception, 1 pt for every 25 yds passing. Last year Brady had 738 pts in our league and LT had 350. I am stuck trying to make this decision.

 
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So is everyone on here of the opinion that if you have the first pick in a 12 team re-draft league that gives 6 pts for all TD's that LT2 is still the better pick over Brady. I am facing this decision myself. 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing or rec, 1 pt per reception, 1 pt for every 25 yds passing. Last year Brady had 738 pts in our league and LT had 350. I am stuck trying to make this decision.
It's a close call when you have the first pick. I think their true relative value is determined not by their own point comparisons but rather in comparison to the RB or QB you could pick up in the second and subsequent rounds. Conventional wisdom says take LT and try for Romo or Brees in the second. But I'd sure hate to get stuck with any QB after Romo and Brees.I don't yet know my draft position. If I get "stuck" with the first pick, I'm seriously thinking of trying to trade down to the lowest spot at which I think I can safely pick up Brady.

 
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Not a bad idea, but I think Brady and Manning both have week 4 byes. That means you will need a backup early in the season. That kind of stinks. After week 4, your hands will be untied.

 
So is everyone on here of the opinion that if you have the first pick in a 12 team re-draft league that gives 6 pts for all TD's that LT2 is still the better pick over Brady. I am facing this decision myself. 1 pt for every 10 yds rushing or rec, 1 pt per reception, 1 pt for every 25 yds passing. Last year Brady had 738 pts in our league and LT had 350. I am stuck trying to make this decision.
With 1pt/25yds passing and 6pt touchdowns Brady would have had around 7950 yds and 70 TD's last season to get 738 points.... :confused: In my league with the same scoring as you except no PPR, LT2 had 296 and Brady had 466 through week 16 since that is our championship week.
 
I'm looking at getting Brady at the 4th pick this year. PPR/All TDs 6pt. The Draft Dominator even tells me it's the right choice. I just believe that all leagues are created differently and so you will have to examine your scoring system and then do some mocks to see what kind of RBs are there in the 2nd/3rd/4th... I'm probably going Brady/RB/WR/WR then get a couple of the following as my other RBs--Lewis, Graham, James, Jacobs, Maroney, Turner, T.Jones, McFadden, Parker, Stewart. Kind of a #2RBBC if you will, similar to the QBBC, DTBC.
This should be an article or something. :lmao:
 
I am in a QB-friendly league (6pt PaTD) where QBs have historically still been overvalued. Since it is QB-friendly, people have always reached on QBs (four in the first round in 2007), while I've been content to get my RBs and head to the playoffs...this year is different. By virtue of the ongoing movement to NFL RBBC, and a more significant separation of an elite three at QB, it's becoming more and more justified to take a QB early. This vexes me, as the people who really don't even know why they're drafting a QB early are beginning to fall into a good draft pattern. This is the first season in the new millennium where I truly feel that it's a justified move.

 
I am in a QB-friendly league (6pt PaTD) where QBs have historically still been overvalued. Since it is QB-friendly, people have always reached on QBs (four in the first round in 2007), while I've been content to get my RBs and head to the playoffs...this year is different. By virtue of the ongoing movement to NFL RBBC, and a more significant separation of an elite three at QB, it's becoming more and more justified to take a QB early. This vexes me, as the people who really don't even know why they're drafting a QB early are beginning to fall into a good draft pattern. This is the first season in the new millennium where I truly feel that it's a justified move.
what? with a move to more and more RBBC, that just makes non-RBBC backs even MORE valuable than before.
 
I am in a QB-friendly league (6pt PaTD) where QBs have historically still been overvalued. Since it is QB-friendly, people have always reached on QBs (four in the first round in 2007), while I've been content to get my RBs and head to the playoffs...this year is different. By virtue of the ongoing movement to NFL RBBC, and a more significant separation of an elite three at QB, it's becoming more and more justified to take a QB early. This vexes me, as the people who really don't even know why they're drafting a QB early are beginning to fall into a good draft pattern. This is the first season in the new millennium where I truly feel that it's a justified move.
what? with a move to more and more RBBC, that just makes non-RBBC backs even MORE valuable than before.
What it does is flatten things out. Nowadays, you're either a #1RB or someone that may turn out to be a #2, #3, or #4 RB. RBs are starting to take the same pattern as WR. There are a few elite ones, then a bunch that aren't all that different. That's why WRs have always been so commoditized over the years. Same thing is happening with RBs these days. In fact, that's what we're starting to see at QB, too. There is an increasing gap between elite and good, and a diminishing gap between good and average. All that said, if all positions start to follow the same curve, it will become more and more compelling to draft from total points projections. Sure, there are still some nuances, but they're becoming less distinguishable - at least this year. Trends change all the time, and this is most likely an anomaly...but a consideration nonetheless.
 
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In one of my leagues, it's a 9-team redraft, points league (thru wk 13). It's 9 teams because we have 18 owners, so we made 2 leagues of 9 teams each. I lobbied to add 2 more owners and make it head-to-head, but to no avail. Anyways, top 3 scoring teams make the playoffs. #2 plays #3 head to head wk 14. Winner of wk 14 plays #1 in wk 15. Then the winner of each league plays each other in wk 16 (so there is a possibility that they have some of the same players).

I've got the 3rd pick, and I really want to pick Brady based on the league type. Scoring is: 6pts all TDs, Passing 1pt/35yds (5 pt bonus @ 275 yds, rushing/receiving 1pt/25yds (3pt bonus @ 100). 1pt PPR. Starters are QB, 2 RBs, 2 WRs, 1 RB/WR, TE, DST and K.

I think I may get "stuck" with Peterson.

 

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