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Which highly touted Rookie WR is this years Bust? (1 Viewer)

I get that and it's certainly possible, but you have to admit that's a pretty optimistic picture being painted. There are lots of possible explanations to explain his poor production last season and that's really the only one that makes Benn look good. On the flip side there are lots of potential explanations that cause Benn to look not so good. In the end, he has the measurables, but not the production. How is that different than the list of players I cited earlier?
1st of all, I don't really think Benn's long injury history makes him look good. I just think many here are leaving out a lot of the facts in regards to the season last year. Simply look at his injury report over the past 2 years. It is what it is and there is no logical way to say it didn't have a significant effect on his production last year. 2ndly, he did have the production. Just not last year.I don't have any issues with people saying they don't like something about his skill set. I just don't see anyone really pointing those things out. It seems like an easy cover to simply site poor production in 2009 as a reason to not like Benn. I really like to hear something more substantial than that from the group around here and that's what I'm trying to get at.
 
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I get that and it's certainly possible, but you have to admit that's a pretty optimistic picture being painted. There are lots of possible explanations to explain his poor production last season and that's really the only one that makes Benn look good. On the flip side there are lots of potential explanations that cause Benn to look not so good. In the end, he has the measurables, but not the production. How is that different than the list of players I cited earlier?
1st of all, I don't really think Benn's long injury history makes him look good. I just think many here are leaving out a lot of the facts in regards to the season last year. Simply look at his injury report over the past 2 years. It is what it is and there is no logical way to say it didn't have a significant effect on his production last year. 2ndly, he did have the production. Just not last year.I don't have any issues with people saying they don't like something about his skill set. I just don't see anyone really pointing those things out. It seems like an easy cover to simply site poor production in 2009 as a reason to not like Benn. I really like to hear something more substantial than that from the group around here and that's what I'm trying to get at.
I'll answer that question after you answer mine.
 
I'm not the biggest believer in Benn, but I feel like I should point out that if Dez Bryant had Juice friggin' Williams throwing him the ball everyone would probably be choosing Bryant as the 'bust.'
:thumbdown: I am an Illini alum....take it from me.....it was painful to watch Juice Williams play QB, as well as Illinois didn't game plan to take advantage of Benn's skills. They just ran the ball and threw short passes all year long last year. Plus, Illinois was lacking in talent last year.....teams double teamed Benn all game long. No WR is going to put up good stats in that kind of offense.

I don't think Benn will be a stud in the NFL, but I can see him being a solid WR. Round 2 is a little risky......I see his value in Round 3.
Coming from an Illinois follower, I found this to be the biggest indictment yet of Benn. I'm not touching him.
 
I get that and it's certainly possible, but you have to admit that's a pretty optimistic picture being painted. There are lots of possible explanations to explain his poor production last season and that's really the only one that makes Benn look good. On the flip side there are lots of potential explanations that cause Benn to look not so good. In the end, he has the measurables, but not the production. How is that different than the list of players I cited earlier?
1st of all, I don't really think Benn's long injury history makes him look good. I just think many here are leaving out a lot of the facts in regards to the season last year. Simply look at his injury report over the past 2 years. It is what it is and there is no logical way to say it didn't have a significant effect on his production last year. 2ndly, he did have the production. Just not last year.I don't have any issues with people saying they don't like something about his skill set. I just don't see anyone really pointing those things out. It seems like an easy cover to simply site poor production in 2009 as a reason to not like Benn. I really like to hear something more substantial than that from the group around here and that's what I'm trying to get at.
I'll answer that question after you answer mine.
Only 1 of the players you cited ever had more than 900 yds receiving. Your question has been covered, several times.
 
I'm really interested in Benn and would like to hear more about his negatives from the people who watched him a lot.

 
I get that and it's certainly possible, but you have to admit that's a pretty optimistic picture being painted. There are lots of possible explanations to explain his poor production last season and that's really the only one that makes Benn look good. On the flip side there are lots of potential explanations that cause Benn to look not so good. In the end, he has the measurables, but not the production. How is that different than the list of players I cited earlier?
1st of all, I don't really think Benn's long injury history makes him look good. I just think many here are leaving out a lot of the facts in regards to the season last year. Simply look at his injury report over the past 2 years. It is what it is and there is no logical way to say it didn't have a significant effect on his production last year. 2ndly, he did have the production. Just not last year.I don't have any issues with people saying they don't like something about his skill set. I just don't see anyone really pointing those things out. It seems like an easy cover to simply site poor production in 2009 as a reason to not like Benn. I really like to hear something more substantial than that from the group around here and that's what I'm trying to get at.
I'll answer that question after you answer mine.
Only 1 of the players you cited ever had more than 900 yds receiving. Your question has been covered, several times.
I think a guy like Marcus Easley has all the same positives as Benn (similar negatives - Easley's QB was actually worse) with more reasons for optimism and will be significantly cheaper.Easley's raw and at times inconsistent, like Benn, one thing we know about Easley that we don't know about Benn is he has incredible work ethic. I'm not saying Benn doesn't, I'm saying we don't know, and if anything the evidence to this point indicates he doesn't, at least relative to Easley anyway.

Benn's biggest on the field issue in my eyes has been his inconsistent reps - whether it's making a lazy cut, making the wrong cut, not going full speed when the play is not designed for him or he knows he won't be targeted because the defense shifts towards him, among other things. Not things I'd want to see in a top prospect, there's lots of reasons to explain these sort of weaknesses but not many of them can be spun to make Benn look good. I'm not saying he'll be bad, he has the potential, but I think there are better risks to take later. I'd feel more inclined to believe if he had better numbers, yea the yards were there (for one season - indicates fluke potential) but the scores have never been there. I don't take serious consideration to a players numbers when he produces well, but I will certainly take exception when the numbers haven't been there.

 
I have been high on Thomas too, my concern however arises from the game he played my favorite college team, Iowa. That game he just disappeared, completely. As did Dwyer for the most part. Thomas was a non factor in the game which they faced their toughest foe.

 
I think Thomas has the highest bust potential this year. I am tired of overdrafting the speed-height guys and getting burned.
Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson were "speed-height guys" and they turned out pretty well.What I don't get is why people talk about Thomas like he's nothing more than a workout warrior. This isn't Darrius Heyward-Bey, folks. This guy actually produced elite results on the football field last season.
 
EBF said:
I think Thomas has the highest bust potential this year. I am tired of overdrafting the speed-height guys and getting burned.
Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson were "speed-height guys" and they turned out pretty well.What I don't get is why people talk about Thomas like he's nothing more than a workout warrior. This isn't Darrius Heyward-Bey, folks. This guy actually produced elite results on the football field last season.
I certainly hope you aren't putting Thomas on their level. What I don't get is why people talk about questioning Dwyer due to being a product of his system, but not Thomas. You look at his numbers and see elite production. I look at his ridiculously high YPR (25+) and attribute it to the system he played in. The Yellow Jackets ran the ball 82% of the time last year! (776 runs/166 passes) That is just ridiculous. So, when the other team is stacking the box with 9-10 defenders, a few times a game you switch to a pass play and have Thomas run deep. Expecting the run, there is no deep help. TOUCHDOWN.Look at his long catches from each game last year.56,39,56,16,65,73,51,52,35,14,75,76,70Does Thomas have considerable physical gifts? Sure. But to question Dwyer and not Thomas for the reason above is completely wrong. If anything it makes Dwyer's production more impressive than Thomas' given the opponent's knowledge of what the play would be 82% of the time.I'd be hard pressed to take him as the #2 WR off the board.
 
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In my mock (that I can't seem to finish), I have Demaryias Thomas going to San Diego in the first. I might be crazy but I see that as the ideal offense for him. Now that I said it, it won't happen but if it did he woud be a lock as the #2 rookie WR.

 
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In my mock (that I can't seem to finish), I have Demaryias Thomas going to San Diego in the first. I might be crazy but I see that as the ideal offense for him. Now that I said it, it won't happen but if it did he woud be a lock as the #2 rookie WR.
If they do that then it probably means that they think Floyd or Jackson will be gone soon. He wouldn't give them anything that those guys don't, but he would be a great replacement for either of them. One of my draft predictions is that he'll go higher than expected. I think he's more highly regarded in NFL circles than he is among internet draft pundits. I see him as a top 15-20 caliber talent. The question is whether or not any team in the 20s can afford to use its first round pick on him. There was some talk of him going to Cincinnati at 21 or Baltimore at 25, but that seems unlikely now given their recent acquisitions. Pittsburgh at 18 and Atlanta at 19 now seem like the most logical spots for him in the late first round. I think he'd be a solid pick for either club. The Steelers in particular could use another threat at WR given the Holmes trade. Their OL needs may force their hand in a different direction though. If he does slip out of the first frame, he won't last long in the second. He would be a great pick for Rams, Bucs, Chiefs, Browns, Raiders, and Bills who pick in the top 10 of the second round. The most likely scenario might be one of these teams jumping up into the 20-32 range to grab him.
 
I'm really interested in Benn and would like to hear more about his negatives from the people who watched him a lot.
Note that I am an Illini fan first off. But outside of the injury history, the thing I don't like about Benn is his "stiff hips" at times. He is very athletic and I don't think people are questioning that. But i'm not sure of it's just his body type(very thick) and his athleticism....but i'm just not a fan of that stiffness....thinking it will effect his ability to adjust to the ball or run routes, etc.The one thing that I don't think people take away from Benn enough....is that he is a playmaker. He will fight through tacklers and make a play. I couldn't say the same about some other prospects(Damian Williams).
 
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:

--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February

--Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.

--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside

 
In my mock (that I can't seem to finish), I have Demaryias Thomas going to San Diego in the first. I might be crazy but I see that as the ideal offense for him. Now that I said it, it won't happen but if it did he woud be a lock as the #2 rookie WR.
If they do that then it probably means that they think Floyd or Jackson will be gone soon. He wouldn't give them anything that those guys don't, but he would be a great replacement for either of them. One of my draft predictions is that he'll go higher than expected. I think he's more highly regarded in NFL circles than he is among internet draft pundits. I see him as a top 15-20 caliber talent. The question is whether or not any team in the 20s can afford to use its first round pick on him.

There was some talk of him going to Cincinnati at 21 or Baltimore at 25, but that seems unlikely now given their recent acquisitions. Pittsburgh at 18 and Atlanta at 19 now seem like the most logical spots for him in the late first round. I think he'd be a solid pick for either club. The Steelers in particular could use another threat at WR given the Holmes trade. Their OL needs may force their hand in a different direction though.

If he does slip out of the first frame, he won't last long in the second. He would be a great pick for Rams, Bucs, Chiefs, Browns, Raiders, and Bills who pick in the top 10 of the second round. The most likely scenario might be one of these teams jumping up into the 20-32 range to grab him.
I believe Jackson's possible suspension for DUIs will play a major factor in the decision. It effects them this year and could effect their decision to re-sign him. KC decided against giving Jared Allen a new contract partically due to his DUI convictions. I will admit that the cicumstances were different. KC decided to rebuild through the draft and SD was/is still a playoff caliber team. Anyway it something they have to think about. I also have Ryan Mathews going prior to the 28th pick and Best might not be the best compliment to Sproles. There 2009 season proves that SD can still win without a major contribution from the running game. Can they do still win without a player to replace Jackson? Besides SD has this habit of drafting players that some scouts have considered to be reaches.

 
I'm really interested in Benn and would like to hear more about his negatives from the people who watched him a lot.
Note that I am an Illini fan first off. But outside of the injury history, the thing I don't like about Benn is his "stiff hips" at times. He is very athletic and I don't think people are questioning that. But i'm not sure of it's just his body type(very thick) and his athleticism....but i'm just not a fan of that stiffness....thinking it will effect his ability to adjust to the ball or run routes, etc.The one thing that I don't think people take away from Benn enough....is that he is a playmaker. He will fight through tacklers and make a play. I couldn't say the same about some other prospects(Damian Williams).
Thanks!
 
EBF said:
I think Thomas has the highest bust potential this year. I am tired of overdrafting the speed-height guys and getting burned.
Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson were "speed-height guys" and they turned out pretty well.What I don't get is why people talk about Thomas like he's nothing more than a workout warrior. This isn't Darrius Heyward-Bey, folks. This guy actually produced elite results on the football field last season.
I certainly hope you aren't putting Thomas on their level. What I don't get is why people talk about questioning Dwyer due to being a product of his system, but not Thomas. You look at his numbers and see elite production. I look at his ridiculously high YPR (25+) and attribute it to the system he played in. The Yellow Jackets ran the ball 82% of the time last year! (776 runs/166 passes) That is just ridiculous. So, when the other team is stacking the box with 9-10 defenders, a few times a game you switch to a pass play and have Thomas run deep. Expecting the run, there is no deep help. TOUCHDOWN.
I don't think anyone is expecting him to average 25 yards per catch in the NFL. The flipside of what you're saying is that he had a lot less opportunities than a typical elite college WR. Had he gone to a school like USC or Texas, we'd likely be talking about him as a top 10 pick.
 
EBF said:
I think Thomas has the highest bust potential this year. I am tired of overdrafting the speed-height guys and getting burned.
Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson were "speed-height guys" and they turned out pretty well.What I don't get is why people talk about Thomas like he's nothing more than a workout warrior. This isn't Darrius Heyward-Bey, folks. This guy actually produced elite results on the football field last season.
I certainly hope you aren't putting Thomas on their level. What I don't get is why people talk about questioning Dwyer due to being a product of his system, but not Thomas. You look at his numbers and see elite production. I look at his ridiculously high YPR (25+) and attribute it to the system he played in. The Yellow Jackets ran the ball 82% of the time last year! (776 runs/166 passes) That is just ridiculous. So, when the other team is stacking the box with 9-10 defenders, a few times a game you switch to a pass play and have Thomas run deep. Expecting the run, there is no deep help. TOUCHDOWN.
I don't think anyone is expecting him to average 25 yards per catch in the NFL. The flipside of what you're saying is that he had a lot less opportunities than a typical elite college WR. Had he gone to a school like USC or Texas, we'd likely be talking about him as a top 10 pick.
I wasn't implying that anyone expects him to average 25 yards per catch in the NFL. Not sure what I posted that would make you think that.Actually, I'm not knocking Thomas at all. I agree that he's physically impressive and his stat line is equally impressive. I was just pointing out that I find it extremely interesting, and downright backwards, that so many people question Dwyer's abilities and statistics based on being a "product of his system" but these same questions aren't raised about Demaryius. What gives there? The USC or Texas talk is a big IF that isn't necessary. I mean, the same could be said of Dwyer, no? And, of Golden Tate, I've said all along that he's not a possible 1st round NFL draft pick if he doesn't go to Notre Dame.
 
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February --Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside
Has he run an 40 time for scouts yet?
 
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:

--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February

--Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.

--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside
Has he run an 40 time for scouts yet?
Perhaps on Sunday....

 
I'm not the biggest believer in Benn, but I feel like I should point out that if Dez Bryant had Juice friggin' Williams throwing him the ball everyone would probably be choosing Bryant as the 'bust.'
:confused: I am an Illini alum....take it from me.....it was painful to watch Juice Williams play QB, as well as Illinois didn't game plan to take advantage of Benn's skills. They just ran the ball and threw short passes all year long last year. Plus, Illinois was lacking in talent last year.....teams double teamed Benn all game long. No WR is going to put up good stats in that kind of offense.I don't think Benn will be a stud in the NFL, but I can see him being a solid WR. Round 2 is a little risky......I see his value in Round 3.
I don't get why people chastise Juice Williams so much for being the reason why Benn put up poor numbers, when Thomas had Josh Nesbitt throwing him the ball. Juice Williams is better at throwing the ball than Josh Nesbitt is. In 2 years at QB Nesbitt has never had a completion % over 47%. Both Juice and Nesbitt have strong arms and terrible accuracy. My point is, star NFL WRs should be able to put up pretty good numbers regardless of his throwing him the ball. Benn was not able to do that.
 
I'm not the biggest believer in Benn, but I feel like I should point out that if Dez Bryant had Juice friggin' Williams throwing him the ball everyone would probably be choosing Bryant as the 'bust.'
:confused: I am an Illini alum....take it from me.....it was painful to watch Juice Williams play QB, as well as Illinois didn't game plan to take advantage of Benn's skills. They just ran the ball and threw short passes all year long last year. Plus, Illinois was lacking in talent last year.....teams double teamed Benn all game long. No WR is going to put up good stats in that kind of offense.I don't think Benn will be a stud in the NFL, but I can see him being a solid WR. Round 2 is a little risky......I see his value in Round 3.
I don't get why people chastise Juice Williams so much for being the reason why Benn put up poor numbers, when Thomas had Josh Nesbitt throwing him the ball. Juice Williams is better at throwing the ball than Josh Nesbitt is. In 2 years at QB Nesbitt has never had a completion % over 47%. Both Juice and Nesbitt have strong arms and terrible accuracy. My point is, star NFL WRs should be able to put up pretty good numbers regardless of his throwing him the ball. Benn was not able to do that.
Exactly. Take Eric Decker. Adam Weber was (is) a brutal QB and Decker still put up big numbers.
 
Thomas -- how can you not question his "football skills"? You talk about Ginn and DHB (I don't think Koren Robinson is a good example -- he was a very good WR for a stretch), but Thomas didn't even play in a "football offense." Like Benn (more on that below) this fault isn't a personal knock on him (it wasn't his choice what type of offense GT ran) but I think it definitely increases his variance. Playing in an offense that calls 20 straight runs and then one deep pass doesn't do a good job of showing us a guy's football skills. He may end up having great football skills, but I think for now, they're a question mark.
I don't punish players for opportunities they never received. It's not his fault that he didn't play in a pro style offense. That was out of his control. All he could do was make plays when given the opportunity and he did that. 1154 receiving yards in 14 games on just 46 catches. This guy was a beast when they threw him the football. That's all you can hope for.I don't care what kind of offense he played in at Georgia Tech. When I look at a WR/RB prospect, I'm not concerned with what system he ran. I'm only concerned with gauging his abilities and projecting them to the NFL level. What's he capable of? That's what matters to me. A lot of people missed the boat on Harvin last season because they got hung up on his college usage. That's always a mistake. You have to look beyond the system and try to figure out what the player can do at the next level. Harvin was obviously an elite athlete and football player despite the fact that he played in a gimmicky Florida offense that didn't see him running a lot of routes on the outside. Same deal with Thomas. People who talk about the offense he played in are missing the point entirely. He's an elite athlete and he has all the physical tools and football skills to be a standout player on Sundays.
Benn -- sure, his numbers stunk, and yes, that increases his variance. But there are only four words that could shut down a WR more than "Darrelle Revis Nnamdi Asomugha." And they're "Ron Zook Juice Williams." I don't blame Benn for his putrid productivity in 2009, although I think there are other question marks.
The problem with this argument is that he thrived with the same coach/QB in 2008. If they're so bad, why was he able to succeed with them in 2008, but not in 2009? His junior year stats just don't look like what you'd expect from a premium college WR. Of the four WRs I talked about (Bryant, Thomas, Benn, Tate), he's the only one who didn't produce elite statistics in his final full college season. To me that's a little bit of a red flag that suggests he might be more athlete than football player.
For the most part I agree 100%, but ...Reggie Bush
 
identikit said:
az_prof said:
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:

--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February

--Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.

--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside
Has he run an 40 time for scouts yet?
Perhaps on Sunday....
RotoWorld reporting Thomas will not workout.
 
identikit said:
az_prof said:
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:

--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February

--Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.

--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside
Has he run an 40 time for scouts yet?
Probably smart on his part at this point.

More risk then reward for him.

Perhaps on Sunday....
RotoWorld reporting Thomas will not workout.
Probably smart on his part at this point.

More risk than reward.

 
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identikit said:
az_prof said:
Some interesting reports from Chris Mortensen (via twitter) about Thomas:

--One big Sunday workout for Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas - he's had to wait since breaking foot in February

--Demaryius Thomas 6-31/4, 224, has been working with ex-NFL star Roy Green. Word is Thomas recently has run in high 4.3's, 4.4's.

--Thomas ran mostly "go" routes @ G. Tech w/ option offense but also has big hands . Get this: Wonderlic was 34. Raw but big upside
Has he run an 40 time for scouts yet?
Perhaps on Sunday....
RotoWorld reporting Thomas will not workout.
This is my last comment on him and I may take him if he's there at 1.07 in my draft: There is no way he ran a legit high 4.3 40. None. He just doesn't have the burst to do it. He is very fast once he gets going, esp for him body type. But I think he isn't working out because he knows he can't run in the high 4.3s.
 
Article on Thomas' workout today:

Georgia Tech wide receiver works out for NFL scouts

by Aaron Wilson

Georgia Tech wide receiver Demaryius Thomas displayed major progress from a broken foot he suffered prior to the NFL scouting combine during a workout conducted today for several NFL teams at an Atlanta area high school, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

It wasn't a full workout because Thomas is at 90 to 95 percent of his normal capabilities, and the 6-foot-3, 229-pound first-round draft prospect didn't run the 40-yard dash.

Thomas has recorded a 4.38 previously.

We're told that he capped the workout with an explosive full-speed over-the-shoulder catch.

For the most part, the workout was a series of a situation positional drills where Thomas caught passes while running pass patterns at less than full-speed.

The chance of a recurrence of the foot injury, a broken fifth metatarsal that required surgery, is considered minimal. This close to the draft, though, it wasn't considered a good idea to take an unnecessary risk.

Roughly 13 NFL teams were in attendance, including the Cincinnati Bengals, Baltimore Ravens, New York Jets, St. Louis Rams and the Cleveland Browns. Other teams are going to be sent a DVD of the workout session.

Last season, Thomas caught 46 passes for 1,154 yards and eight touchdowns while averaging 25 yards per reception.

Thomas played in a run-first offense, but caught 120 career passes for 2,339 yards and 15 touchdowns.

Thomas has an ideal size-speed combination.

Because he played in a fairly limited offense in college, Thomas will probably need some time to adjust to the entire NFL route tree.

He was invited and plans to attend the NFL draft in New York with his family on Thursday.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source...kout-today.html

 
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