Which Players of the NE SB Winning Teams (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

troy brown was mr clutch. did whatever it took to win. punt returns, blocking, safety, cornerback, special teams.

Jose Oquendo was the same for the St. Louis Cardinals in baseball, but I am pretty sure that didn't get him even slight consideration for the Hall of Fame. Troy Brown doesn't have a prayer, and nor should he have one.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

As far as Seymour goes, I went back 15 years in terms of pro bowl and all pro selections for defensive linemen in that time. Here were all the players with multiple all pro selections . . .

Player       	PB	APReggie White	13	8Bruce Smith	11	8John Randle	7	6Kevin Williams	6	5Michael Strahan	7	4Warren Sapp	7	4Cortez Kennedy	8	3Richard Seymour	6	3Dwight Freeney	6	3Julius Peppers	6	3Jason Taylor	6	3Jared Allen	3	3M. D. Perry	6	2Kris Jenkins	4	2John Abraham	4	2Jamal Williams	3	2A. Haynesworth	2	2

I am not sure how much weight 3 rings and a SB loss will factor in to things.

All those other guys with 3 AP's have considerably better counting stats than Seymour. Seymour's still young enough to have some great seasons ahead of him, but if he retired at the end of this season I can't imagine he'd have a shot at the HOF.

 

[Tau837]

I have yet to hear a compelling case for Law (I don't know that there is a compelling case to be made for him.)

53 career INTs, led the league in INTs twice, 2-time All Pro, 5 PBs, 6 post-season INTs, and 1 pick-6 in a SB.Not sure what that adds up to.

I'm pretty sure 2-time All Pro does not stack up particularly well with current and prospective HOF CBs.

Darrell Green was on 1 all-pro team

A few things of note before opening up any discussion involving rating cornerbacks in the NFL1) It is reasonable to believe that if a true cover-corner is doing his job, and has earned the respect of opposing offensive coordinators, the ball would not be thrown in said defenders' direction. Fewer opportunities for big plays. Lower INT numbers. Less media attention.

2) There is lack of reliable on-the-field statistics that can be used to measure a CB's overall effectiveness. INTs are frequently the result of poor decision-making and lucky bounces, and are more than likely not a result of excellent CB play. Yet, this is the first statistic mentioned in any discussion, simply because there is no quantifiable method to judge consistent/excellent CB play.

3) The rules regarding where, what, and how a defensive back is allowed to defend wide receivers have changed a handful of times, even in just the past 30 years... including as recently as 2003 (I believe) after Polian was bemoaning Law's physical play against Colts' WRs. Nowadays, a physical cornerback such as Law is not the ideal type of player that coaches are looking for at the position.

With minimul research, I have gathered a small list of what I believe are the top CBs from the past 25 years. Does Law rank in the top 10? He's damn close IMO, but I'm biased.

Rod Woodson

Deion Sanders

Champ Bailey

Darrel Green

Aeneas Williams

Charles Woodson

Nnamdi Asomugha

Darrelle Revis

Ronde Barber

Antoine Winfield

Asante Samuel

Eric Allen

Troy Vincent

Albert Lewis

Yes, I omitted Ronnie Lott... simply because he did not play CB in the past 25 years.

The Hall of Fame currently includes 15 players who played CB, going all the way back to the 1950s. Among those players, Lott, Renfro, and Woodson were not full time CBs and also played safety.So far only 5 CBs have been inducted who played later than 1983: Lott, Sanders, Woodson, Green, and Haynes.

IMO Aeneas Williams, Charles Woodson, Bailey, and Barber are all very clearly more deserving than Law and should get in ahead of him. And Asomugha and Revis are in position to earn their way in if they continue their level of play for long enough.

Does Law really measure up to this group? There aren't likely enough spots for all of these players I have named who aren't in to make it.

To think he would make it means you either disagree with that and think all of the individuals I named here (and maybe more?) will make it, or it means you think he will make it and some of those I named will not.

Interested to hear which view his backers are supporting, and, if it is the second one, the case for him to make it over the others I've named.

 

[Fensalk]

I think we went over this several years ago. One of the things that qualifies Belichick as a great head coach is that he coached a team of the decade and there were hardly any hall of famers on it.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Brady obviously.

Vinatieri and Harrison are the only other 2 somewhat likely to make it imho. Even though I think he should be in I don't like Harrisons chances; Vinatieri will be real close.

 

[Sweet Love]

I have yet to hear a compelling case for Law (I don't know that there is a compelling case to be made for him.)

53 career INTs, led the league in INTs twice, 2-time All Pro, 5 PBs, 6 post-season INTs, and 1 pick-6 in a SB.Not sure what that adds up to.

I'm pretty sure 2-time All Pro does not stack up particularly well with current and prospective HOF CBs.

Darrell Green was on 1 all-pro team

A few things of note before opening up any discussion involving rating cornerbacks in the NFL1) It is reasonable to believe that if a true cover-corner is doing his job, and has earned the respect of opposing offensive coordinators, the ball would not be thrown in said defenders' direction. Fewer opportunities for big plays. Lower INT numbers. Less media attention.

2) There is lack of reliable on-the-field statistics that can be used to measure a CB's overall effectiveness. INTs are frequently the result of poor decision-making and lucky bounces, and are more than likely not a result of excellent CB play. Yet, this is the first statistic mentioned in any discussion, simply because there is no quantifiable method to judge consistent/excellent CB play.

3) The rules regarding where, what, and how a defensive back is allowed to defend wide receivers have changed a handful of times, even in just the past 30 years... including as recently as 2003 (I believe) after Polian was bemoaning Law's physical play against Colts' WRs. Nowadays, a physical cornerback such as Law is not the ideal type of player that coaches are looking for at the position.

With minimul research, I have gathered a small list of what I believe are the top CBs from the past 25 years. Does Law rank in the top 10? He's damn close IMO, but I'm biased.

Rod Woodson

Deion Sanders

Champ Bailey

Darrel Green

Aeneas Williams

Charles Woodson

Nnamdi Asomugha

Darrelle Revis

Ronde Barber

Antoine Winfield

Asante Samuel

Eric Allen

Troy Vincent

Albert Lewis

Yes, I omitted Ronnie Lott... simply because he did not play CB in the past 25 years.

Aaron Glenn belongs too, though he'll never be a HOF finalist.

Wow, just came in to post the same thing. I am a Jets fan, so I thought it may be the homerism speaking, but he was good. With 6'2 Marcus Coleman on the other side, that was a nice DB pairing...

 

[aposulli]

I have yet to hear a compelling case for Law (I don't know that there is a compelling case to be made for him.)

53 career INTs, led the league in INTs twice, 2-time All Pro, 5 PBs, 6 post-season INTs, and 1 pick-6 in a SB.Not sure what that adds up to.

I'm pretty sure 2-time All Pro does not stack up particularly well with current and prospective HOF CBs.

Darrell Green was on 1 all-pro team

A few things of note before opening up any discussion involving rating cornerbacks in the NFL1) It is reasonable to believe that if a true cover-corner is doing his job, and has earned the respect of opposing offensive coordinators, the ball would not be thrown in said defenders' direction. Fewer opportunities for big plays. Lower INT numbers. Less media attention.

2) There is lack of reliable on-the-field statistics that can be used to measure a CB's overall effectiveness. INTs are frequently the result of poor decision-making and lucky bounces, and are more than likely not a result of excellent CB play. Yet, this is the first statistic mentioned in any discussion, simply because there is no quantifiable method to judge consistent/excellent CB play.

3) The rules regarding where, what, and how a defensive back is allowed to defend wide receivers have changed a handful of times, even in just the past 30 years... including as recently as 2003 (I believe) after Polian was bemoaning Law's physical play against Colts' WRs. Nowadays, a physical cornerback such as Law is not the ideal type of player that coaches are looking for at the position.

With minimul research, I have gathered a small list of what I believe are the top CBs from the past 25 years. Does Law rank in the top 10? He's damn close IMO, but I'm biased.

Rod Woodson

Deion Sanders

Champ Bailey

Darrel Green

Aeneas Williams

Charles Woodson

Nnamdi Asomugha

Darrelle Revis

Ronde Barber

Antoine Winfield

Asante Samuel

Eric Allen

Troy Vincent

Albert Lewis

Yes, I omitted Ronnie Lott... simply because he did not play CB in the past 25 years.

I think this is a bad list. It's not 25 years, but largely based on the last ten and there's a bunch of glaring omissions. Eric Allen and Albert Lewis simply aren't worthy at all.

If we're talking DBs Carnell Lake is the most useful in the history of the NFL. I think he made the pro bowl as a Safety and as a CB, pretty sure he played LBer in spots too. He had these hits though where he rung a WRs bell and he crushed some RBs and...Lake was the real deal. Unfortunately in the HOF threads, he's not the best CB or the best S ever and it seems he won't make the hall. Maybe if he just played one spot? Who knows. Can't undo history. Lake was better than Vincent, Allen, Winfield, and Lewis so get em' off this list. I think we can at least use Lake as some barometer.

Rod Woodson and Lake were part OLB. Not sure how to explain it. CBs don't shuck FBs and blow up WRs in today's NFL. I can't remember the last time I saw a CB hold up a WR then dive and get the feet of a RB either. We go off on these tangents of shut down corners and gloss over this far too many times. I've never seen anyone as complete a CB as Lake and Rod Woodson.

I will give you that Carnell Lake was a very unique talent and certainly up there with anyone on this list as far as overall talent. I only did not include him because he was mostly a LB/Safety-type as I remember, although yes you are right, he made the Pro Bowl as a CB at least once.If your only true criticism of the list was that it was skewed more toward the last 10 years, then how do you immediately discount Lewis and Allen? No CB from the mid-late 80s thru the early 90s aside from Woodson and Green made as many pro bowls as Allen did, nor did any of them have their name uttered by Jerry Rice when he was asked who was the best CB he ever faced... (Lewis). Okay, so Rice once said that he thought Tim Brown was the greatest college football player EVER... but still!

Regardless, I was just trying to show who Law was up against. Do you have any other names?

Winfield is one of my favorite players from the past 20 years. He is every bit as talented as Ronde Barber, and he's exactly the type of CB you described as basically being extinct. Never stayed consistently healthy, but when he was, he was an absolute beast of a Cover-2 corner.

 

[aposulli]

I have yet to hear a compelling case for Law (I don't know that there is a compelling case to be made for him.)

53 career INTs, led the league in INTs twice, 2-time All Pro, 5 PBs, 6 post-season INTs, and 1 pick-6 in a SB.Not sure what that adds up to.

I'm pretty sure 2-time All Pro does not stack up particularly well with current and prospective HOF CBs.

Darrell Green was on 1 all-pro team

A few things of note before opening up any discussion involving rating cornerbacks in the NFL1) It is reasonable to believe that if a true cover-corner is doing his job, and has earned the respect of opposing offensive coordinators, the ball would not be thrown in said defenders' direction. Fewer opportunities for big plays. Lower INT numbers. Less media attention.

2) There is lack of reliable on-the-field statistics that can be used to measure a CB's overall effectiveness. INTs are frequently the result of poor decision-making and lucky bounces, and are more than likely not a result of excellent CB play. Yet, this is the first statistic mentioned in any discussion, simply because there is no quantifiable method to judge consistent/excellent CB play.

3) The rules regarding where, what, and how a defensive back is allowed to defend wide receivers have changed a handful of times, even in just the past 30 years... including as recently as 2003 (I believe) after Polian was bemoaning Law's physical play against Colts' WRs. Nowadays, a physical cornerback such as Law is not the ideal type of player that coaches are looking for at the position.

With minimul research, I have gathered a small list of what I believe are the top CBs from the past 25 years. Does Law rank in the top 10? He's damn close IMO, but I'm biased.

Rod Woodson

Deion Sanders

Champ Bailey

Darrel Green

Aeneas Williams

Charles Woodson

Nnamdi Asomugha

Darrelle Revis

Ronde Barber

Antoine Winfield

Asante Samuel

Eric Allen

Troy Vincent

Albert Lewis

Yes, I omitted Ronnie Lott... simply because he did not play CB in the past 25 years.

The Hall of Fame currently includes 15 players who played CB, going all the way back to the 1950s. Among those players, Lott, Renfro, and Woodson were not full time CBs and also played safety.So far only 5 CBs have been inducted who played later than 1983: Lott, Sanders, Woodson, Green, and Haynes.

IMO Aeneas Williams, Charles Woodson, Bailey, and Barber are all very clearly more deserving than Law and should get in ahead of him. And Asomugha and Revis are in position to earn their way in if they continue their level of play for long enough.

Does Law really measure up to this group? There aren't likely enough spots for all of these players I have named who aren't in to make it.

To think he would make it means you either disagree with that and think all of the individuals I named here (and maybe more?) will make it, or it means you think he will make it and some of those I named will not.

Interested to hear which view his backers are supporting, and, if it is the second one, the case for him to make it over the others I've named.

I only didn't include Haynes because he wasn't technically the last 25 years. And because I've never seen him play a live game. So yeah...I would absolutely agree with all the names you presented as better HOF candidates than Law. The names after that is where it gets interesting. Lets discount the active players (Revis, Asomugha, Samuel)... I'll stand by Troy Vincent, Albert Lewis, Eric Allen being the next best. (Okay, I may just be a bit in love with Winfield)

The thing that makes Law stand out among those guys is three Super Bowls. (obviously)

But not just that. Think about who this man was in direct competition with for Super Bowls in those years.

Maybe the best Quarterback ever. People around these parts (MAss) give Manning alot of #####, well because... we have to believe Brady is the better Quarterback. But I've always been in the camp that Manning was (weird to say "was") the top dog and that we didn't give enough credit to Law and the Pats D for shutting him down year after year. At one point we joked that Ty Law was Peyton Manning's 2nd favorite receiver. But honestly... to keep Manning ringless for basically as long as Law was in his prime should speak volumes.

Clearly I left it open for someone to say that it wasn't just him on that defense, but I think he was the one guy you could point to (if you had to pick one) that was a thorn in Peyton Manning's side.

 

[golfguy]

ty law. ty law was revis from the late 90s to mid 00's. not to mention he should have been the MVP of the first super bowl win over brady by a wide margin.

 

[David Yudkin]

Stats and rings aside, here are all the DBs drafted in the past 25 years that earned multiple Pro Bowl selections. Neither Law nor Harrison stacks up very well on this list . . .

Rod Woodson	11	6Deion Sanders	8	6Ed Reed	        7	5Brian Dawkins	8	4Leroy Butler	4	4Champ Bailey	10	3Aeneas Williams	8	3Troy Polamalu	6	3Darren Woodson	5	3Rhonde Barber	5	3John Lynch	9	2Steve Atwater	8	2Charles Woodson	7	2Darren Sharper	5	2Ty Law	        5	2Sam Madison 	4	2Darelle Revis	3	2N. Asomugmha	3	2Bob Sanders	2	2Rodney Harrison	2	2

 

[Bri]

Bob Sanders only twice? is that right?

 

[Da Guru]

Harrison has to be a Hall of Famer. Will probably take a few years because of his reputation but he is IMO one of the top 10 safeties to play. One of only 2 players ever to have 30/30 career interceptions and sacks.

In some of the other HOF discussion threads, Harrison and Law were both considered boderline candidates.

IMO Harrison should be a HOF canidate, but he was the cheap shot king of his era so that may hurt him.

 

[David Yudkin]

Bob Sanders only twice? is that right?

That's what I saw and it appears to be right.

 

[ratbast]

Does Vini become the second full time K to be inducted?

 

[gonzobill5]

Not a lot of chatter about Corey Dillon. He probably won't get in but there is definitely an argument...

He has to be top 20 in total yards, no? I'm guessing he's up there in TDs too. And IIRC he broke Walter Payton's record for yards in a game.

 

[Tau837]

Does Vini become the second full time K to be inducted?

No.

 

[Tau837]

Not a lot of chatter about Corey Dillon. He probably won't get in but there is definitely an argument...He has to be top 20 in total yards, no? I'm guessing he's up there in TDs too. And IIRC he broke Walter Payton's record for yards in a game.

There is not a good argument for Dillon. Since you asked, he is currently #34 in yards from scrimmage. He is #17 in rushing yards and #16 in rushing TDs. He made 4 Pro Bowls and was never All Pro, and he never won any major awards.

 

[Bri]

Bob Sanders only twice? is that right?

That's what I saw and it appears to be right.

Effect of Ed and Polamalu I guess...that's interesting. Not sure that there's been any player recently who instantly improves a D from like 30th to 15th with just his presence like Sanders seemed to. He'd miss so many games that it seemed like Colts D stinks, oh wait look they're good this week. He was so odd.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Tom Brady and the video taping guy.

Both were very instrumental in winning games.