Which QBs would you rather have than Cutler? (1 Viewer)

[twistd]

I'm a Bears fan. I'm trying to put Cutler in perspective. I know there are quite a few teams that would improve immediately if Cutler was under center for them. So to figure out where he ranks I wanted to look at which QBs I would select over Cutler if I were starting a franchise today. Not in any particular order, my list is:

Peyton

Brady

Schaub

Rodgers

Sam Bradford

Matt Stafford

Rivers

Sanchez

Matt Ryan

Brees

Big Ben

Flacco

Romo

Eli Manning

Orton

Rivers

McNabb(for this year, long term Cutler is more valuable)

So I would say that Culter is at the top of the bottom half of QBs. There are a lot of teams that would improve with Cutler, AZ, Oakland, Buffalo, to name a few. The problem, as I see it is, the Bears paid for Cutler as if he were a top 10 QB. They paid, both in compensation and in salary. Cutler isn't a top 10 QB, nor will he ever be. He's a milddle of the pack guy. A lot of teams would be better with him, but there are a lot of guys who are better than him too. That is what bothers me about all this.

 

[RudeDog]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

 

[CrossEyed]

You like Rivers so much you would take him twice over Cutler?

 

[two_dollars]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

He's quite a polarizing figure, isn't he?Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

 

[CrossEyed]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

He's quite a polarizing figure, isn't he?Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

You seriously think Cutler is a top 5 QB? Really?

 

[two_dollars]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

He's quite a polarizing figure, isn't he?Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

You seriously think Cutler is a top 5 QB? Really?

Talent-wise? Yes.

 

[switz]

Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

That's a good start, I'd add:Rivers,Romo,Roethlisberger,Orton,McNabb (for a few more years),Sanchez,Ryan,Bradford (looks like the real deal),Manning (Eli)ETA - where Cutler may be more "talented" than some of these guys where it comes to mobility and arm strength, they are much smarter QBs, and smart QBs tend to win more.

 

[CrossEyed]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

He's quite a polarizing figure, isn't he?Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

You seriously think Cutler is a top 5 QB? Really?

Talent-wise? Yes.

Ability to make good decisions is a talent.

 

[basher]

Lots of Cutler hate on the board today.

He's quite a polarizing figure, isn't he?Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

I would add rivers, bradford, and big ben. I think Schaub/Cutler/Romo are about the same tier (guys who have talent and just need to prove that they can win games) above Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez, etc...

 

[Max Power]

Manning

Brees

Brady

Rodgers

Rivers

are hands down the easy calls

Shuab

Bradford

Ryan

Romo

are the probable ones I would still take over Cutler

Everyone else is up for debate. He falls in the 10-15 range....Why do we keep having to go throught this?

 

[two_dollars]

Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

That's a good start, I'd add:Rivers,Romo,Roethlisberger,Orton,McNabb (for a few more years),Sanchez,Ryan,Bradford (looks like the real deal),Manning (Eli)ETA - where Cutler may be more "talented" than some of these guys where it comes to mobility and arm strength, they are much smarter QBs, and smart QBs tend to win more.

So do QBs with good defenses, which Cutler hasn't had until this year. Cutler's win % is great when the D holds the other team to less than 24. Orton well.. he was the beneficiary of a lot of 17-10 wins early in his career, with the defense or Hester being responsible for 7 of it. I was tired of Orton going 13 for 28 for 175 - 0 and 1, with the defense bailing him out and giving him a "W" when he had nothing to do with it.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Sam Bradford?????

 

[DLR]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

 

[Max Power]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

I'd stop at Buffalo.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Here's my list anyway theneytonBradyBreesRodgers

That's a good start, I'd add:Rivers,Romo,Roethlisberger,Orton,McNabb (for a few more years),Sanchez,Ryan,Bradford (looks like the real deal),Manning (Eli)ETA - where Cutler may be more "talented" than some of these guys where it comes to mobility and arm strength, they are much smarter QBs, and smart QBs tend to win more.

So do QBs with good defenses, which Cutler hasn't had until this year. Cutler's win % is great when the D holds the other team to less than 24. Orton well.. he was the beneficiary of a lot of 17-10 wins early in his career, with the defense or Hester being responsible for 7 of it. I was tired of Orton going 13 for 28 for 175 - 0 and 1, with the defense bailing him out and giving him a "W" when he had nothing to do with it.

Yes but Cutler's tendency for mistakes surely does not help the defenses cause............

 

[jurb26]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one. I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

 

[CrossEyed]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one.

I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

Did you watch the game? At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

 

[switz]

So do QBs with good defenses, which Cutler hasn't had until this year. Cutler's win % is great when the D holds the other team to less than 24. Orton well.. he was the beneficiary of a lot of 17-10 wins early in his career, with the defense or Hester being responsible for 7 of it. I was tired of Orton going 13 for 28 for 175 - 0 and 1, with the defense bailing him out and giving him a "W" when he had nothing to do with it.

At least Orton didn't hurt his team's chances to win by throwing INTs. And regardless of how you want to spin it, Orton still had to get the team into scoring position a couple times to "eek out" a 17-10 win. And for the record, what you are describing only happened during Orton's rookie season, much like Tom Brady's first season playing or Ben Roethlisberger's rookie season. However, Orton has never averaged an INT per game in his career, and only his rookie season did he average <1 TD per game. So your posting has little merit over the course of his career.Heck in '08, Orton took nearly the identical team as Cutler's '09 team to a winning record. Cutler played in '09 on a team with a good defense - even with Urlacher out - and that didn't give them a winning record did it?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The main knock that Cutler haters have used for years is "his" win pct, even when he himself is playing well. Yet when he's not playing great but the team is 3-1, suddenly the idea of win pct disappears?

 

[RudeDog]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one.

I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

Did you watch the game? At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

This question has been banned from use in the pool. Please rephrase.

 

[Max Power]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one.

I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

Did you watch the game? At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

Yep, Cutler was rattled and the OL didn't help. Its one of the major downsides to the Martz Offense. All QBs have their bad games...

 

[switz]

The main knock that Cutler haters have used for years is "his" win pct, even when he himself is playing well. Yet when he's not playing great but the team is 3-1, suddenly the idea of win pct disappears?

The team is 3-1, but I think any knowledgeable football fan realizes that it's not likely to maintain that winning percentage moving forward. The win in DET was due to stupidity (ref or CJ, you pick) and the GB win was more of a GB loss - they self destructed. Dallas is the only game in which I thought the Bears looked like the better team.

 

[gigantor]

The main knock that Cutler haters have used for years is "his" win pct, even when he himself is playing well. Yet when he's not playing great but the team is 3-1, suddenly the idea of win pct disappears?

The team is 3-1, but I think any knowledgeable football fan realizes that it's not likely to maintain that winning percentage moving forward. The win in DET was due to stupidity (ref or CJ, you pick) and the GB win was more of a GB loss - they self destructed. Dallas is the only game in which I thought the Bears looked like the better team.

They have Carolina, Skins, Seahawks all coming up before the bye.They'll have a winning season this year

 

[two_dollars]

So do QBs with good defenses, which Cutler hasn't had until this year. Cutler's win % is great when the D holds the other team to less than 24. Orton well.. he was the beneficiary of a lot of 17-10 wins early in his career, with the defense or Hester being responsible for 7 of it. I was tired of Orton going 13 for 28 for 175 - 0 and 1, with the defense bailing him out and giving him a "W" when he had nothing to do with it.

At least Orton didn't hurt his team's chances to win by throwing INTs. And regardless of how you want to spin it, Orton still had to get the team into scoring position a couple times to "eek out" a 17-10 win. And for the record, what you are describing only happened during Orton's rookie season, much like Tom Brady's first season playing or Ben Roethlisberger's rookie season. However, Orton has never averaged an INT per game in his career, and only his rookie season did he average <1 TD per game. So your posting has little merit over the course of his career.Heck in '08, Orton took nearly the identical team as Cutler's '09 team to a winning record. Cutler played in '09 on a team with a good defense - even with Urlacher out - and that didn't give them a winning record did it?

Very different teams. Even a blind man can see what the D is like this year with Urlacher vs 09 without Urlacher. Orton also had the benefit of a healthy Forte, Cutler had him with a lingering injury all year.Orton also didn't HELP his team by throwing for yards. I mean.. 05 he had 1,869 yards in 15 games started! That's terrible! 125 yards a game!

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Cutler played in '09 on a team with a good defense - even with Urlacher out - and that didn't give them a winning record did it?

The Bears were tied for 21st last year in points allowed...with Cleveland. From my quick glance over, NO team that gave up as many points as the Bears last year made the playoffs.The scary thing is that that 21st place finish is actually the best defense that Cutler has had to work with in his entire lifetime, college and pro. So yeah, I guess you're right, compared to what Cutler is used to (IE the worst defense you could possibly imagine), that was a good defense. By normal standards, not so much.Look at the defense Cutler played with in '08. I can't recall the specifics from the last Cutler thread where someone looked it up, but it was something like no other team in recent memory had won more than 4 games (and almost all of them won 2 or fewer) while giving up as many points as that 8-8 Broncos team did.

 

[BigDave]

I have Romo #1 and Cutler as a backup. Well, yesterday was Cutler's chance to fill in for him on a bye.

He failed miserably for the obvious reasons, most not his fault.

Thankfully my lineup was strong enough to absorb Cutler's -3 pts. and my opponents 29 points for Orten (off the waiver this week).

Wow, dodged that bullet!

 

[Harrassment Panda]

In order:

Manning

Brees

Brady

Schaub

Rodgers

Rivers

and maybe Orton (if he can sustain this level of play)

I think the world of Cutler, I have ever since he was at Vandy. Speaking of Vandy, even their offensive line was better than this Bears' group.

 

[switz]

Cutler played in '09 on a team with a good defense - even with Urlacher out - and that didn't give them a winning record did it?

The Bears were tied for 21st last year in points allowed...with Cleveland. From my quick glance over, NO team that gave up as many points as the Bears last year made the playoffs.

The scary thing is that that 21st place finish is actually the best defense that Cutler has had to work with in his entire lifetime, college and pro. So yeah, I guess you're right, compared to what Cutler is used to (IE the worst defense you could possibly imagine), that was a good defense. By normal standards, not so much.

Well, your defense can be good but look very bad when your opponent gets nearly 2 extra chances to score per game due to your QB throwing INTs. You don't think there's a correlation between a very good defense suddenly becoming a very bad defense when the QB starts throwing picks left and right?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

For reference, here are the defenses that gave as many points or more than the Bears last year.

Browns

Raiders

Jags

Dolphins

Seahawks

Bucs

Titans

Chiefs

Giants

Rams

Lions

The amount of weight people give to the importance of a QB vs the importance of a defense is startling to me. Yes, the quarterback is the single most important individual on a team. But when compared to an entire defense, it's not even close to being the same weight.

 

[CrossEyed]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one.

I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

Did you watch the game? At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

This question has been banned from use in the pool. Please rephrase.

Did you use your photoreceptor cells to observe the contest? Is that better?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Well, your defense can be good but look very bad when your opponent gets nearly 2 extra chances to score per game due to your QB throwing INTs. You don't think there's a correlation between a very good defense suddenly becoming a very bad defense when the QB starts throwing picks left and right?

Aren't you a Bears fan? Surely you can't say with a straight face that you think Chicago's defense was as good as ever last year and was just out on the field more. They gave up a half a yard per play more in 09 than in 08 even though they were playing against more teams that were just using the 4th quarter to plod for 2 yards per play and run out the clock in 09.

 

[jurb26]

What O-line would you rather have than the Bears O-line?

About all of them other than Det and I'd have to think pretty hard about that one.

I'm not much of a Cutler supporter but he isn't nearly as bad as people are making him out to be right now. His oline play is simply awful. There isn't ANYONE who can successfully play QB when they are sacked 9 times in one freaking half. 9 times! Cutler has ability but he needs some help in Chi. Not only does their oline suck right now but they still don't have a legit WR1 either. Double whammy.

Did you watch the game? At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

Let's just assume that what you said above is accurate. That would still mean that the Chi oline gave up 4.5 sacks. That is still WAY too many for a half of football. I'd disagree that half of those sacks were Cutler's fault none the less. Martz system in notorious for long developing plays that require the QB to hang onto the ball longer than normal.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Peyton

Brees

Brady

Roethlisberger

Schaub

Rivers

Romo

Rodgers

Cutler is pretty good. If you Bears fans are tired of him we'll embrace him in SF.

 

[switz]

Let's just assume that what you said above is accurate. That would still mean that the Chi oline gave up 4.5 sacks. That is still WAY too many for a half of football. I'd disagree that half of those sacks were Cutler's fault none the less. Martz system in notorious for long developing plays that require the QB to hang onto the ball longer than normal.

Martz's system typically averages about 2.5 sacks per game, not 4.5, not nearly 9. Cutler has been sacked more than the average in 3 out of 4 games this year. Part of that is on the OL, no doubt. Does Cutler get none of the blame??If the "system" averages 2.5, how much is the OL responsible, and after than how much is Cutler responsible for the rest?Just curious, for those watching a lot of Bears games, how would you split it up?

 

[gigantor]

All the sacks were Cutler's fault. Even the ones in the second half.

 

[two_dollars]

Let's just assume that what you said above is accurate. That would still mean that the Chi oline gave up 4.5 sacks. That is still WAY too many for a half of football. I'd disagree that half of those sacks were Cutler's fault none the less. Martz system in notorious for long developing plays that require the QB to hang onto the ball longer than normal.

Martz's system typically averages about 2.5 sacks per game, not 4.5, not nearly 9. Cutler has been sacked more than the average in 3 out of 4 games this year. Part of that is on the OL, no doubt. Does Cutler get none of the blame??If the "system" averages 2.5, how much is the OL responsible, and after than how much is Cutler responsible for the rest?Just curious, for those watching a lot of Bears games, how would you split it up?

System 2.5, line 2.5, young wr's not getting open 1.5, Cutler 0.5

 

[jurb26]

Let's just assume that what you said above is accurate. That would still mean that the Chi oline gave up 4.5 sacks. That is still WAY too many for a half of football. I'd disagree that half of those sacks were Cutler's fault none the less. Martz system in notorious for long developing plays that require the QB to hang onto the ball longer than normal.

Martz's system typically averages about 2.5 sacks per game, not 4.5, not nearly 9. Cutler has been sacked more than the average in 3 out of 4 games this year. Part of that is on the OL, no doubt. Does Cutler get none of the blame??If the "system" averages 2.5, how much is the OL responsible, and after than how much is Cutler responsible for the rest?Just curious, for those watching a lot of Bears games, how would you split it up?

I'm not sure how much "blame" should go around to the parties involved as far as exact %. I know from watching last nights game that the NYG Dline man handled the Chi Oline. Did Cutler hang on to a few for too long? Sure, but again in Martz system the plays take longer to develop as they are deeper routes. I know that everyone thinks that Warner, Bruce and Holt are the guys who made that St.L offense run so well. I happen to think it was the fact that St.L had the best LT in the game at the time, Pace and a great pass protecting Oline. Don't get me wrong, they surely had a critical part in that offense. The pass protection is what starts it all though.

 

[DoubleG]

Cutler played in '09 on a team with a good defense - even with Urlacher out - and that didn't give them a winning record did it?

The Bears were tied for 21st last year in points allowed...with Cleveland. From my quick glance over, NO team that gave up as many points as the Bears last year made the playoffs.

The scary thing is that that 21st place finish is actually the best defense that Cutler has had to work with in his entire lifetime, college and pro. So yeah, I guess you're right, compared to what Cutler is used to (IE the worst defense you could possibly imagine), that was a good defense. By normal standards, not so much.

Well, your defense can be good but look very bad when your opponent gets nearly 2 extra chances to score per game due to your QB throwing INTs. You don't think there's a correlation between a very good defense suddenly becoming a very bad defense when the QB starts throwing picks left and right?

As I posted in another post, since 2008, he has been in the top 10 in QBs in passing TDs and in pass completions since 2007 (his first year as a starter). In terms of active QBs he is 5th in terms of passing yards/game, and top 10 among active QBs in completions/game, completion %, and TD % - and shocking to some, he is stil 11th of active QBs in passer rating. You can read the actual stats here.

...or you could allow preconceived notions based on a limited sample size to be your barometer

 

[Harrassment Panda]

At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

On one of the plays the NBC announcers accused him of holding on too long, they were dead wrong. The left tackle completely whiffed and the defensive end went right around him. Cutler wasn't even finished with his drop before he had to move. On another play #68 (don't know his name, sorry) blocked NO ONE. There two blitzers were in the backfield less than a full second after the snap.

 

[GloryDaze]

Who's ranked after Henne?

 

[daveR]

At least half of those sacks came because Cutler held onto the ball too long.

On one of the plays the NBC announcers accused him of holding on too long, they were dead wrong. The left tackle completely whiffed and the defensive end went right around him. Cutler wasn't even finished with his drop before he had to move. On another play #68 (don't know his name, sorry) blocked NO ONE. There two blitzers were in the backfield less than a full second after the snap.

If the O-line does their job, the QB has lot's of time. To blame the QB for the O-line's mistakes is stupid.How many people reading this would give the O-line any grade other than F?

 

[twistd]

Sam Bradford?????

Chase, if you read my premise, starting a franchise today and taking a QB for now into the future, Sam Bradford over Cutler without question. If I were the Bears GM, and I could trade Cutler for Sam Bradford, straight up, I do it without a second thought. Cutler will be better this season, but I believe Bradford is a much better QB in three years.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I love how switz loves to rag on awful Forte was last year, but when the subject changes to Cutler vs. Orton, they suddenly are comparable, as if the Bears running game was as good as last year as it was in '08. It is why switz and his nonsense should never be taken seriously in the SP.

Right now, I would take over Cutler:

Peyton

Brees

Brady

Rivers

Rodgers

Roethlisberger

Romo

Cutler would then be in the next tier of about seven of eight guys (Schaub, McNabb, Orton, Eli, Flacco, etc.).

 

[cvnpoka]

sanchez is the only one on that list that is indefensible.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Romo

Eli

McNabb

Rodgers

Stafford

Ryan

Brees

Bradford

Brady

Sanchez

Big Ben

Peyton

Schaub

Orton

Rivers

 

[DoubleG]

I love how switz loves to rag on awful Forte was last year, but when the subject changes to Cutler vs. Orton, they suddenly are comparable, as if the Bears running game was as good as last year as it was in '08. It is why switz and his nonsense should never be taken seriously in the SP.Right now, I would take over CutlereytonBreesBradyRiversRodgersRoethlisbergerRomoCutler would then be in the next tier of about seven of eight guys (Schaub, McNabb, Orton, Eli, Flacco, etc.).

But I would probably split Roeth and Romo into that tier as well, and probably drop Orton and Flacco from it - for now.

 

[Max Power]

Why do people include Eli on their list? I'd love the hear the case for him...

 

[twistd]

PeytonBreesBradyRoethlisbergerSchaubRiversRomoRodgersCutler is pretty good. If you Bears fans are tired of him we'll embrace him in SF.

Which is my point, to a degree. I think that SF, Jax, Buffalo, Philly, KC, Oakland, Seattle, AZ, Tenn., TB, Miami, Cin., Clev., and Carolina are all better teams with Cutler under the center versus who they have now. I'm not saying he is useless. I'm just saying that I have come to feel that he is not nearly as good as I thought he was. I'm saying there are alot of other QBs that I would trade Cutler for, straight up, right now. I would trade him for Ryan, Sanchez, Flacco, Sam Bradford or Stafford, without a doubt. And, of course, any of the QBs listed above. I think I'd trade him for Eli Manning or Orton too.

 

[twistd]

sanchez is the only one on that list that is indefensible.

Sanchez has begun to look very good. These last few games he seems to have really started to come in to his own. I didn't like him at all. I really thought he was a product of USC and was going to turn out to be a wasted pick, like Leinart, but I'm beginning to believe in him.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Sam Bradford?????

Chase, if you read my premise, starting a franchise today and taking a QB for now into the future, Sam Bradford over Cutler without question. If I were the Bears GM, and I could trade Cutler for Sam Bradford, straight up, I do it without a second thought. Cutler will be better this season, but I believe Bradford is a much better QB in three years.

What about Tom Brady?